SNF WiFi

[john smith]

Notice that it doesn't say "FREE".

from AvWeb...

Sun Œn Fun goes Wireless for 2006 Event*

SUN ŒN FUN CAMPUS, LAKELAND, Fla. (January 31, *2006) Interstate
Telecommunications will provide full site wireless access during
the*2006 Sun 'n Fun Fly-In set for April 4-10, 2006.* The new system
will utilize WiFi technology designed to cover large outdoor areas,
making only a laptop and wireless card necessary to access the*internet
throughout the campus.

In addition to the main exhibit area, wireless internet access will now
extend to the majority of the convention campground and the Ultralight
exhibit area.* ³This provides a huge benefit to everyone on our siteŠ²
said Steve Wolfe, Sun Œn Fun Controller. ³Our guests, exhibitors,
performers and media will all benefit from the convenience of this
technology and it will enhance everyone¹s experience at our event.²

Daily, multi-day*and weekly access packages will be available for guests
and unlimited access packages with multiple security levels will be
available for exhibitors.* The exhibitor packages will include a hard
wired option for displays located inside exhibit hangars.

Please direct your service and technical questions to Interstate
Telecommunications at 877-578-3534 starting Monday, February 27th*. For
general questions you can contact Steve Wolfe at Sun 'n Fun,
863-644-2431 ext. 114.

[Jay Honeck]

> Notice that it doesn't say "FREE".
>
> from AvWeb...
>
> Sun Œn Fun goes Wireless for 2006 Event

Great. That probably means Oshkosh will have Wi-Fi -- which means that
we'll all be sitting around the campsite with our noses stuck in our
laptops, instead of hangar flying and drinking beer, like good pilots
should!

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[john smith]

> Great. That probably means Oshkosh will have Wi-Fi -- which means that
> we'll all be sitting around the campsite with our noses stuck in our
> laptops, instead of hangar flying and drinking beer, like good pilots
> should!
> :-)

Think positive, Jay.
If OSH puts up free WiFi, it means we can produce daily audio/video
podcasts and upload them everyday for those unfortunate souls unable to
attend.
It also means that those in attendance would be able to upload some of
those fantastic photographs we see (after we get home) directly to the
web instead of having to wait until they get home.
My plan is a 1kw Honda generator, my laptop, digital video and still
cameras, and cell phone.
Think of sitting around the MOAC and seeing everyones faces in the soft
flow of the display screen. We could pretty well illuminate the entire
campsite with laptops displaying everyones daily photos in slideshow
mode. Think of it as a gallery viewing, with passersby perusing the
photos as they walk by.

[B A R R Y]

john smith wrote:

> If OSH puts up free WiFi, it means we can produce daily audio/video
> podcasts and upload them everyday for those unfortunate souls unable to
> attend.

I wonder what kind of bandwidth they'd put up?

You may end up with speeds _approaching_ dial-up if the temporary Wi-Fi
is as good as others I've seen. <G>

[[email protected]]

Well all, I usually just lurk, but since I'm a pilot/owner, information
systems guy and I work for Interstate Telecommunications, Inc. the supplier
for the WiFi at Sun and Fun, I think I'll get involved in this thread. So
here's some scoop. Nothing official here, just speaking as a pilot that may
know a little more then someone else on the subject....
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1st. The fiber has just been installed. Speed about 15MPS, which is about
12 T1's. That's a lot of bandwidth, we're talking a big, big pipe.

2nd. It will not be free, neither will it be anywhere near as costly as I
was told it was as OSH last year. (I was told $400 per person) .
Rates are $7.95 per day or $39.95 from 4/4/06 to 4/10/06 or $59.95 from
3/20/06 to 4/15/06. I figure the last rate would be better for the campers.
Please call (877) 578-3534 now and don't wait for the last minute, if you
would be so kind.

3rd. No company is going to provide this service at a loss.. Please take
your laptop and purchase the service even if it's just for a day or two.
(You know you have to check that e-mail!) You could imagine it takes quite
an investment for any company to provide a service like this.

4th. No promises regarding OSH. Let us wrestle one monster at a time, O.K.

5th. Hope to see you there (and online to boot) LOL

Bill
ASEL
N6422J

[Jay Honeck]

> 4th. No promises regarding OSH. Let us wrestle one monster at a time,
> O.K.

No offense, Bill (and what you're doing in Lakeland sounds AWESOME), but I'd
be just as happy if you did not install WiFi at OSH. Call me a Luddite, but
Airventure is my week AWAY from my PC. If I had my druthers, I'd install a
cell-phone jammer in the North 40, too.

To me, OSH is all about one on one, face-to-face, back-slapping
interpersonal communication, and it will be sad if we all end up in our
tents checking email and uploading photos, rather than sitting at the
flightline watching the Mustangs peel off to land...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[[email protected]]

No sir, no offense taken, because I know exactly what you mean, but some of
us can only get away if we don't get too far away. That's pretty much my
life anyway .....

Bill

[john smith]

Bill,
If I pay for service, will it be via VPN for security, or will it be out
in the open?

[john smith]

In article <P1VUf.637883$084.155166@attbi_s22>,
"Jay Honeck" > wrote:

> sitting at the flightline watching the Mustangs peel off to land...

.... streaming the live video to the web!

[[email protected]]

Via VPN, with SSL on top sir.

[Montblack]

("john smith" wrote)
>> sitting at the flightline watching the Mustangs peel off to land...

> ... streaming the live video to the web!


I scheduled my OSH lodging to start the first Saturday night, so I'll be
there Saturday AND Sunday, on the flight line - not driving over (6 hrs)
Sunday morning ...missing all the arrivals!

Chair, camera, scanner, cell phone(?), umbrella, sunscreen ...refreshments,
snacks, sandwich.

Two days for arrivals!! Mmm.

"You been here two days already. You tired? Feet hurt?"
"No. Not so much." <g>


Montblack

[Peter Duniho]

> 1st. The fiber has just been installed. Speed about 15MPS, which is about
> 12 T1's. That's a lot of bandwidth, we're talking a big, big pipe.

Whoo hoo! Two and a half cable modems!

> 2nd. It will not be free, neither will it be anywhere near as costly as I
> was told it was as OSH last year. (I was told $400 per person) .
> Rates are $7.95 per day or $39.95 from 4/4/06 to 4/10/06

Nothing like a captive audience, eh?

> or $59.95 from 3/20/06 to 4/15/06.

Now that's a bit more like it. Too bad you have to use it all 26 days to
get the price/day down.

> 3rd. No company is going to provide this service at a loss.. Please take
> your laptop and purchase the service even if it's just for a day or two.
> (You know you have to check that e-mail!) You could imagine it takes quite
> an investment for any company to provide a service like this.

Actually, I'm having trouble imagining this being much of an investment at
all. $500-1000 or so, tops, and that's at retail rates. Presumably a
telecom company needs to invest less. Yes, you'll need at least a few
customers to make it worth it. But bandwidth is cheap, and the proposed
rates are high. It won't take many people to break even.

I guess the biggest surprise to me is that with fiber, you're only getting
15Mbps.

I apologize for my cynical view, but frankly your post reads like everyone
ought to be wowed by the service that's going to be provided, and while I
think it's nice there will be access for those who want it, I can't say that
I'm even close to being wowed.

Pete

[john smith]

In article >,
wrote:

> Via VPN, with SSL on top sir.

Excellent! That makes it worth the price.

[[email protected]]

Pete,

My tech guy wanted me to tell you the speed is 15 up and 15 down
(synchronous), which is not available on a cable modem.
15 megs is the fastest the local service provider can provide.
There are over 20 antennas, radios and amps. There are also a number of
wireless bridges required to cover the 10 square miles.
Again I can't say much, but I'm sure you can't even get the service
installed for the amount you figured.

Please Sir, I know you are a regular poster to this group, I have lurked for
years, this is my first post on any subject, no reply is neccessary and I
can say no more.

Bill
ASEL
N6422J

[john smith]

> Please Sir, I know you are a regular poster to this group, I have lurked for
> years, this is my first post on any subject, no reply is neccessary and I
> can say no more.

Bill, don't worry about Peter. The rest of us don't. Just be amused like
the rest of us.

[[email protected]]

LOL , Shew, thanks!

[Peter Duniho]

> wrote in message
...
> My tech guy wanted me to tell you the speed is 15 up and 15 down
> (synchronous), which is not available on a cable modem.

That's true...I did say "two and a half", I believe. :)

Unless you're saying that each user will be getting 15Mbps symmetric (I
believe "symmetric" is the word you want, not "synchronous"), I don't see
the speed to be all that impressive. It's nice it's symmetric, but the
reason asymmetric connections work so well for DSL and cable modems is that
most users are doing a lot more downloading than uploading.

Unless you're selling this service to people hosting web sites, I don't
think the symmetric nature is all that important, and the 15Mbps download
pipe isn't very different from existing residential service (by only a
factor of 2.5 in the example I cited). And as Todd points out, it's
extremely close to one recent service roll-out in the US (and while I don't
have first-hand experience with broadband abroad, my understanding is that
we in the US are way behind the rest of the developed world in terms of
residential bandwidth).

> 15 megs is the fastest the local service provider can provide.
> There are over 20 antennas, radios and amps. There are also a number of
> wireless bridges required to cover the 10 square miles.
> Again I can't say much, but I'm sure you can't even get the service
> installed for the amount you figured.

It wasn't clear from your post that the service would be guaranteed
available over 100% of the airport. You're right, there is a more
considerable investment required for that sort of layout.

That said, the broader coverage you're talking about will require many more
users for break-even, making the 15Mbps bandwidth even less impressive.
Even just 100 simultaneous users will drop average performance to marginal
levels.

Anyway, as I said, it's nice that ANY Internet access will be available. I
just hope no one is expecting a lot of bang for their buck.

Pete

[Peter Duniho]

"T o d d P a t t i s t" > wrote in message
...
> Actually, with the latest residential cable service being
> rolled out, it's only 15/16 ths of the download speed:

Yup, I did see that. I didn't want to use that speed as a comparison,
because it's a relatively restricted service in terms of availability.

> [...]
> However, the fiber is likely to be a symmetrical pipe, so
> the upload speed will be far faster than these 2 and 1 Mbps
> services (although I doubt any individual subscriber would
> get access to more than a tiny fraction of the full upload
> bandwidth).

Nor more than a tiny fraction of the full download bandwidth. As I
mentioned in my other reply, it's good marketing to have a symmetric
service, but for most users, it's not a relevant point. They aren't pushing
as much data out as they are pulling it in.

Pete

[David Dyer-Bennet]

"Jay Honeck" > writes:

> > 4th. No promises regarding OSH. Let us wrestle one monster at a time,
> > O.K.
>
> No offense, Bill (and what you're doing in Lakeland sounds AWESOME), but I'd
> be just as happy if you did not install WiFi at OSH. Call me a Luddite, but
> Airventure is my week AWAY from my PC. If I had my druthers, I'd install a
> cell-phone jammer in the North 40, too.

Jay, your cell phone has a power switch. You control it, not the
other way around. So, do what's best for you! And don't try to force
other people to do it your way (jammer).
--
David Dyer-Bennet, >, <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/>
RKBA: <http://www.dd-b.net/carry/>
Pics: <http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/> <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/>
Dragaera/Steven Brust: <http://dragaera.info/>

[Jay Honeck]

> Please Sir, I know you are a regular poster to this group, I have lurked for
> years, this is my first post on any subject, no reply is neccessary and I
> can say no more.

Dang, Pete, you've got poor Bill here spooked on his very first thread.


Tone it down, will ya?

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Peter Duniho]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Dang, Pete, you've got poor Bill here spooked on his very first thread.

Sorry...maybe I should have gone easy on the guy. I still think the service
he describes doesn't come close to being worth the money. You'd have to be
pretty hard up for Internet access to pay those rates for that speed.

> Tone it down, will ya?

Thanks for the suggestion.

Bill, sorry if I came across as too strident. I stand by what I wrote, but
hope you didn't get offended. Well, not too offended anyway... :)

Pete

[[email protected]]

Thanks, I'll be OK, sniff, sniff
LOL

[Peter Duniho]

"T o d d P a t t i s t" > wrote in message
...
> 1) It wasn't clear to me whether 15 Mbps was the speed each
> individual user would get, with a bigger pipe for the shared
> main connection to the Internet or if that was the size of
> the main connection.

Nor to me. No clarification has been offered, in spite of both of us
pointing out the ambiguity. However, based on the statement, which appeared
to link the bandwidth to the fiber optic cable used to provide the
connection, I think the more likely answer is that it's total bandwidth.

If each user is guaranteed 15Mbps symmetric, then the rates are a bargain.
No question about that. Somehow, I suspect that's not the case though. If
it were, surely the clarification would have been offered by now.

> 2) When I'm away from home, upload speed is much more
> important to me.

When I'm away from home, I backup my data to portable media. It's cheap,
convenient, and reusable (whether a hard drive, rewritable DVD, flash-based
USB drive, or whatever). And I don't have to worry about connectivity
problems.

> One of the most important away-from-home
> functions is to send photos to home as my backup and/or to
> family/friends so they'll envy my great vacation

Well, in this respect I am in Jay's camp. While I can think of reasons I
might like to have Internet access while on vacation, putting together photo
albums for my friends and family to see my pictures hot off the presses
isn't one of them. Even spending 15-30 minutes on such a project would be
time spent away from my vacation. They can wait until I get home.

But beyond that, unless the user is getting a dedicated 15Mbps upload speed,
it is likely that all users are going to get a fraction of that, since they
are all sharing. Their upload speed is likely to be similar to that
available on a cable modem or low-end DSL. Hardly something to be overjoyed
about.

Yes, I'd rather get 150Kbps upload than 15Kbps, but neither speed is fast
enough to make it practical to use for backup of large amounts of data.

> [...] A second reason upload speed
> is important to me is I may be in an awkward spot to leave
> my computer/PDA attached, or I may have to run on battery
> power. The faster it gets out, the better.

No disagreement there. More upload speed is always better. But at the
speeds we're likely to be talking about, it seems to me it's a difference
between "pretty slow" and "really slow".

Pete