finding mountain passes for flight planning?

[John T]

Where can I find information about passes in the rockies to use when
flying over them?

John

[Blanche Cohen]

In Colorado, check out

www.coloradopilots.org

And if you need to ask about passes, perhaps you should take a
high-altitude airport/mountain flying course?

[Rowsign]

Where can I find information about passes in the rockies to use when
flying over them?

John

Try Colorado Pilots Association. They have a website and the info is on there somewhere.

Chris

[Andrew Sarangan]

John T wrote:
> Where can I find information about passes in the rockies to use when
> flying over them?
>
> John

Commonly used passes are indicated on the sectional charts. However,
that doesn't mean they are all safe. For example, the infamous
Independence Pass is still shown on the Colorado sectional, but unless
you know exactly what you are doing, it is not a recommended route due
to the complex terrain around the pass.

[John T]

Mountain flying courses aren't too common in WI. :)

but, I may not be making such a trip for a long time yet, as I'm just a
renter so far. I >will< keep my eyes out for a local course, FWIW, and I
know there are seminars at Oshkosh.

John

[Peter Duniho]

"John T" > wrote in message
...
> Mountain flying courses aren't too common in WI. :)
>
> but, I may not be making such a trip for a long time yet, as I'm just a
> renter so far. I >will< keep my eyes out for a local course, FWIW, and I
> know there are seminars at Oshkosh.

I seem to recall that there's a hill in Minnesota, not too far from you. I
think people have even been known to ski down it. :) (I know, it takes two
hills to make a pass...oh well).

Anyway, as far as finding mountain passes go, they are pretty apparent when
you actually look at a sectional. They are where the terrain goes down
between two high spots. :) Some are named, and of course the larger the
pass the more likely it is to be a reasonable and safe way through the
mountain range. Note: something that looks like a pass but which leads to
higher terrain rather than lower is called a dead-end. Don't fly down
those. :)

That said, you may want to consider focusing on routes that take you over
the interstate highways. They tend to cross the mountains in the easiest
areas, as well as keep you near civilization in case things don't go quite
as you'd hoped.

If you do want to try some more challenging mountain flying, then on your
way west you might stop just short of the mountains to take in a course.
The web site Blanche mentions has good contacts, including a complete list
of instructors. One of them even posts here regularly...here's his web
address: http://users.frii.com/jer/

Pete

[Robert Barker]

"John T" > wrote in message
...
> Where can I find information about passes in the rockies to use when
> flying over them?
>
> John
>

The Colorado Department of Transportation Aeronautics Division produces a
really nice Colorado chart with all the passes and routes marked really
well. They'll send you one for free if you go to the following link:

http://www.colorado-aeronautics.org/aeroform.cfm

[GeorgeC]

Flatlander question. What the difference between a gap and a pass?

On 25 Mar 2006 17:33:51 -0800, "Andrew Sarangan" > wrote:

>
>John T wrote:
>> Where can I find information about passes in the rockies to use when
>> flying over them?
>>
>> John
>
>Commonly used passes are indicated on the sectional charts. However,
>that doesn't mean they are all safe. For example, the infamous
>Independence Pass is still shown on the Colorado sectional, but unless
>you know exactly what you are doing, it is not a recommended route due
>to the complex terrain around the pass.

GeorgeC

[Andrew Sarangan]

I think they both mean the same thing, although a gap conjures up the
image of a crevice whereas a pass is a saddle point on a mountain
range.



GeorgeC wrote:
> Flatlander question. What the difference between a gap and a pass?
>
> On 25 Mar 2006 17:33:51 -0800, "Andrew Sarangan" > wrote:
>
> >

[Cub Driver]

On 25 Mar 2006 17:33:51 -0800, "Andrew Sarangan" >
wrote:

>that doesn't mean they are all safe. For example, the infamous
>Independence Pass is still shown on the Colorado sectional, but unless
>you know exactly what you are doing, it is not a recommended route due
>to the complex terrain around the pass.

Can a Sport Pilot fly over Independence Pass?

I drove over it in my VW Beetle a while ago. It was a hoot. For a
while there, I thought I was going to have to get out and push.



-- all the best, Dan Ford

email: usenet AT danford DOT net

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com

[Cub Driver]

On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 22:34:12 -0600, GeorgeC >
wrote:

>Flatlander question. What the difference between a gap and a pass?

A gap is in Vermont. A notch is in New Hampshire. A pass is Out There.


-- all the best, Dan Ford

email: usenet AT danford DOT net

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com

[Stefan]

Andrew Sarangan wrote:

>>Where can I find information about passes in the rockies to use when
>>flying over them?

> Commonly used passes are indicated on the sectional charts.

Actually, for *real*(tm) mountain flying, a sectional is not good
enough. Look at any topographic map, and you'll easily find your way,
together with options for plan B and bail out. A scale of 1:200,000 or
better seems reasonable to prepare for and navigate during a flight
through unknown moutain terrain.

However, the correct answer to your question is: If you have to ask, you
shouldn't do it.

Stefan

[Andrew Sarangan]

Stefan wrote:

>
> However, the correct answer to your question is: If you have to ask, you
> shouldn't do it.
>
> Stefan

Most people who got into trouble in the mountains are the ones who did
not bother to ask. If he is asking, then he is on to a good start.

[Ron Lee]

"Peter Duniho" > wrote:
>
>That said, you may want to consider focusing on routes that take you over
>the interstate highways. They tend to cross the mountains in the easiest
>areas, as well as keep you near civilization in case things don't go quite
>as you'd hoped.
>
Just be aware of TUNNELS like on I-70 west of Denver.

Ron Lee

[Ron Lee]

Stefan > wrote:
>
>However, the correct answer to your question is: If you have to ask, you
>shouldn't do it.

This intent offers the best advise. You need to take a mountain
flying course by a competent instructor or at least take the one
offers online by AOPA. There are many things that can kill you or
cause an accident if you are not properly trained. This should not
discourage you, just be educated before attempting it. Otherwise, you
may add your aircraft to others on the montains here.

Ron Lee

[Ron Lee]

Cub Driver <usenet AT danford DOT net> wrote:

>Can a Sport Pilot fly over Independence Pass?

One web source places the altitude at 12095 feet. You tell me if your
aircraft and any possible sport pilot restrictions makes that
realistic.

Ron Lee

[Robert Barker]

"Ron Lee" > wrote in message
...
> "Peter Duniho" > wrote:
>>
>>That said, you may want to consider focusing on routes that take you over
>>the interstate highways. They tend to cross the mountains in the easiest
>>areas, as well as keep you near civilization in case things don't go quite
>>as you'd hoped.
>>
> Just be aware of TUNNELS like on I-70 west of Denver.
>
> Ron Lee

The tunnels are OK if you're in a Cri Cri or one of the few flying BD5s.
Not sure anything else can do them... ;-)

[vincent p. norris]

>A gap is in Vermont. ......

And Pennsylvania.

vince norris

[GeorgeC]

To rephrase my question. I was look at the Colorado Pilots Association's web
site and they have a listing of Colorado passes
http://www.coloradopilots.org/content_mtnfly_passes.asp?menuID=16~16 and they
have a listing of Colorado gaps
http://www.coloradopilots.org/content_mtnfly_gaps.asp?menuID=16~16 . It made me
wonder what's the difference between a gap and a pass.

On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 22:34:12 -0600, GeorgeC > wrote:

>Flatlander question. What the difference between a gap and a pass?

GeorgeC

[Chris Schmelzer]

In article >,
(Blanche Cohen) wrote:

> In Colorado, check out
>
> www.coloradopilots.org
>
> And if you need to ask about passes, perhaps you should take a
> high-altitude airport/mountain flying course?



He didn't ASK about mountain flying courses!

What, you take a mountain flying course and get a secret book that lists
all the passes for a given route?

--
Chris Schmelzer, MD

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

"GeorgeC" > wrote in message
...
> To rephrase my question. I was look at the Colorado Pilots Association's
> web
> site and they have a listing of Colorado passes
> http://www.coloradopilots.org/content_mtnfly_passes.asp?menuID=16~16 and
> they
> have a listing of Colorado gaps
> http://www.coloradopilots.org/content_mtnfly_gaps.asp?menuID=16~16 . It
> made me
> wonder what's the difference between a gap and a pass.

E. Explanation of different lists:
a.. The list of gaps came from source 1 which combined passes and non-pass
gaps, listing all as gaps. Those appearing in the List of Gaps are not
passes (saddles on a ridge), but are narrow passages, often of a stream or
road, and were determined by inspection of the 7.5 minute USGS map.

b.. The List of Passes in Colorado without Official names contains passes
I have discovered on maps or in person but could find no label, so have
chosen a name from a nearby topographic feature.

c.. The List of Passes in Colorado without complete information contains
passes which are named, but which I have not yet been able to locate
precisely
d..
--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
Spell checking is left as an excercise for the reader.

[Cub Driver]

On Sun, 26 Mar 2006 15:30:46 GMT, (Ron Lee)
wrote:

>Just be aware of TUNNELS like on I-70 west of Denver.

Right! Be sure to put on your landing lights in the tunnel!


-- all the best, Dan Ford

email: usenet AT danford DOT net

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com

[Cub Driver]

On Sun, 26 Mar 2006 15:43:29 GMT, (Ron Lee)
wrote:

>>Can a Sport Pilot fly over Independence Pass?
>
>One web source places the altitude at 12095 feet. You tell me if your
>aircraft and any possible sport pilot restrictions makes that
>realistic.

10,000 feet is Sport Pilot limit.

Funny to think that Independence "Pass" is actually higher than the
Sundeck on Aspen Mountain (Ajax to those who love it). No wonder my
poor Beetle was puffing.

As I recall, Loveland Pass (the old road from Denver to Glenwood
Springs, now bypassed or underpassed by the Eisenhower Tunnel) is
about 10,000 feet. I guess I'd have to fly West by way of Texas, huh?




-- all the best, Dan Ford

email: usenet AT danford DOT net

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com

[ET]

Cub Driver <usenet AT danford DOT net> wrote in
:

> On Sun, 26 Mar 2006 15:43:29 GMT, (Ron Lee)
> wrote:
>
>>>Can a Sport Pilot fly over Independence Pass?
>>
>>One web source places the altitude at 12095 feet. You tell me if your
>>aircraft and any possible sport pilot restrictions makes that
>>realistic.
>
> 10,000 feet is Sport Pilot limit.
>
> Funny to think that Independence "Pass" is actually higher than the
> Sundeck on Aspen Mountain (Ajax to those who love it). No wonder my
> poor Beetle was puffing.
>
> As I recall, Loveland Pass (the old road from Denver to Glenwood
> Springs, now bypassed or underpassed by the Eisenhower Tunnel) is
> about 10,000 feet. I guess I'd have to fly West by way of Texas, huh?
>
>
>
>
> -- all the best, Dan Ford
>
> email: usenet AT danford DOT net
>
> Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
> Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
> In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com
>

Yup, I "think" the only way around for a Sport Pilot is El Paso... If
there is another (better) one, I'd like to know about it.... I'm
attempting to plan a sport pilot CC from SNA to OSH....

--
-- ET >:-)

"A common mistake people make when trying to design something
completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete
fools."---- Douglas Adams

[Ron Lee]

Chris Schmelzer > wrote:

>> And if you need to ask about passes, perhaps you should take a
>> high-altitude airport/mountain flying course?
>

>He didn't ASK about mountain flying courses!
>
>What, you take a mountain flying course and get a secret book that lists
>all the passes for a given route?

Chris, the point about suggesting a mountain flying course is that
there are factors about flying here than can kill you if you are not
informed. The suggestion was a good one. Even taking the AOPA on
line course may at least alert you to some or all of these special
considerations.

Ron Lee

[Ron Lee]

Cub Driver <usenet AT danford DOT net> wrote:

>As I recall, Loveland Pass (the old road from Denver to Glenwood
>Springs, now bypassed or underpassed by the Eisenhower Tunnel) is
>about 10,000 feet. I guess I'd have to fly West by way of Texas, huh?

Dan, tell us where you are and where you are going and someone may be
able to offer a reasonable route.

Ron Lee

[Jon Woellhaf]

"Cub Driver" wrote

> As I recall, Loveland Pass (the old road from Denver to Glenwood
> Springs, now bypassed or underpassed by the Eisenhower Tunnel) is
> about 10,000 feet. I guess I'd have to fly West by way of Texas, huh?

The road over Loveland Pass reaches 11990 feet, according to the sign at the
top.

[Rob]

ET wrote:
> Yup, I "think" the only way around for a Sport Pilot is El Paso... If
> there is another (better) one, I'd like to know about it.... I'm
> attempting to plan a sport pilot CC from SNA to OSH....

I got through between Albuquerque and Santa Fe just fine in a Cessna
150 a couple of summers ago. Go early in the morning and keep a close
eye on density altitude as it relates to terrain elevation, airplane's
service ceiling, and your desired/required height above terrain.

Here's a link to a similar thread on Google Groups from about a year
ago:

http://makeashorterlink.com/?T1FD56DDC

-R

[Stefan]

Rob wrote:

> I got through between Albuquerque and Santa Fe just fine in a Cessna
> 150 a couple of summers ago. Go early in the morning and keep a close
> eye on density altitude as it relates to terrain elevation, airplane's
> service ceiling, and your desired/required height above terrain.

One thing is climbing as high as possible outside the mountains and then
crossing them at high altitude in straight and level flight. No special
training required, anybody can do this.

"Real" mountain flying, i.e. flying in the valleys, is a completely
different beast, but wonderful and worth the effort.

Stefan

[ET]

"Rob" > wrote in news:1143490712.415380.3080
@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:

>
> ET wrote:
>> Yup, I "think" the only way around for a Sport Pilot is El Paso... If
>> there is another (better) one, I'd like to know about it.... I'm
>> attempting to plan a sport pilot CC from SNA to OSH....
>
> I got through between Albuquerque and Santa Fe just fine in a Cessna
> 150 a couple of summers ago. Go early in the morning and keep a close
> eye on density altitude as it relates to terrain elevation, airplane's
> service ceiling, and your desired/required height above terrain.
>
> Here's a link to a similar thread on Google Groups from about a year
> ago:
>
> http://makeashorterlink.com/?T1FD56DDC
>
> -R
>

K, but we are talking about a Sport Pilot flying the route (with all
airspace signoffs).... A Sport Pilot cannot fly over 10,000msl, period.


--
-- ET >:-)

"A common mistake people make when trying to design something
completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete
fools."---- Douglas Adams

[Robert M. Gary]

Check winds before you fly. Often times the downdraft in those passes
can exceed your climb performance.

-Robert

[Rob]

ET wrote:
> "Rob" > wrote:
> > ET wrote:
> >> Yup, I "think" the only way around for a Sport Pilot is El Paso... If
> >> there is another (better) one, I'd like to know about it.... I'm
> >> attempting to plan a sport pilot CC from SNA to OSH....
> >
> > I got through between Albuquerque and Santa Fe just fine in a Cessna
> > 150 a couple of summers ago. Go early in the morning and keep a close
> > eye on density altitude as it relates to terrain elevation, airplane's
> > service ceiling, and your desired/required height above terrain.
> >
> K, but we are talking about a Sport Pilot flying the route (with all
> airspace signoffs).... A Sport Pilot cannot fly over 10,000msl, period.

I don't believe I was over 10,000msl that day. I flew from Albuq Intl.
(elev. 5355) to Clayton, NM Muni. (Elev. 4965). Taking a quick look at
the sectional, it looks like the highest terrain on my route was around
6500 or so near the town of Cerrillos, NM, just a bit south of Santa Fe
..

-R

[Blanche Cohen]

Peter Duniho > wrote:
>Anyway, as far as finding mountain passes go, they are pretty apparent when
>you actually look at a sectional. They are where the terrain goes down
>between two high spots. :) Some are named, and of course the larger the
>pass the more likely it is to be a reasonable and safe way through the
>mountain range. Note: something that looks like a pass but which leads to
>higher terrain rather than lower is called a dead-end. Don't fly down
>those. :)

All too true...For example, Independence Pass goes to/from Leadville, CO
the Aspen. However, there NO way out if something goes wrong. As a rule,
Never Never Never fly thru Independence Pass.

>That said, you may want to consider focusing on routes that take you over
>the interstate highways. They tend to cross the mountains in the easiest
>areas, as well as keep you near civilization in case things don't go quite
>as you'd hoped.

Most of the time, this is true. I-80 or I-40 are both great routes
thru the ROckies. However I-70 over the Rockies thru Colorado is a NO-NO.
From Denver to Vail, there are really no "outs" if something goes
wrong. Even the I-70 road isn't straight enough to land most
of the time. On the other hand, the traffic is SO BAD, that you'll
just land on top of an SUV and that'll take you right to Vail.
Of course it'll be a problem going thru the tunnel....

[Blanche Cohen]

Chris Schmelzer > wrote:
> (Blanche Cohen) wrote:
>
>> In Colorado, check out
>>
>> www.coloradopilots.org
>>
>> And if you need to ask about passes, perhaps you should take a
>> high-altitude airport/mountain flying course?
>
>
>
>He didn't ASK about mountain flying courses!
>
>What, you take a mountain flying course and get a secret book that lists
>all the passes for a given route?

Actually, the CPA's website lists the mountain passes and indicates
which are viable, and which aren't.

There's also a map issued by the Colorado DOT/Aviation that is
an unofficial sectional with recommended routes (not valid for
navigational purposes, of course). I know that New Mexico has
a similar map. I like NM's better, because it also identifies the
military flight routes (jets, helicopters, heavy haulers, etc)
along with altitudes.

[Blanche Cohen]

Out Here, a Pass has a road thru it. A Gap is usually hiking or
trail.

YMMV -- I can drive over Berthoud Pass (and ski, if there's
enough snow) but there's no way I can drive over Durant Gap.

And here's the "disclaimer" from the CPA website:
----------------
The list of gaps came from source 1 which combined passes and non-pass gaps,
listing all as gaps. Those appearing in the List of Gaps are not passes
(saddles on a ridge), but are narrow passages, often of a stream or road,
and were determined by inspection of the 7.5 minute USGS map.

The List of Passes in Colorado without Official names contains passes I have
discovered on maps or in person but could find no label, so have chosen
a name from a nearby topographic feature.
(NOTE: the "I" refers to the person who created the list of Passes & Gaps)

The List of Passes in Colorado without complete information contains passes
which are named, but which I have not yet been able to locate precisely.
-----------------

Hope this helps.

[Blanche Cohen]

Cub Driver <usenet AT danford DOT net> wrote:
>On Sun, 26 Mar 2006 15:43:29 GMT, (Ron Lee)
>wrote:
>
>>>Can a Sport Pilot fly over Independence Pass?
>>
>>One web source places the altitude at 12095 feet. You tell me if your
>>aircraft and any possible sport pilot restrictions makes that
>>realistic.
>
>10,000 feet is Sport Pilot limit.
>
>Funny to think that Independence "Pass" is actually higher than the
>Sundeck on Aspen Mountain (Ajax to those who love it). No wonder my
>poor Beetle was puffing.
>
>As I recall, Loveland Pass (the old road from Denver to Glenwood
>Springs, now bypassed or underpassed by the Eisenhower Tunnel) is
>about 10,000 feet. I guess I'd have to fly West by way of Texas, huh?

Eisenhower Tunnel is over 11K ft. The top of the mountain
(Loveland Ski Area) is over 12K, closer to 13K, IIRC. Just to the
southeast is Loveland Pass, which is 11,990 ft on the road, and
the hill goes up a bit more (you can hike the trail)...but
it's been a year since I drove by the altitude marker up there.

[Blanche Cohen]

ET > wrote:
>Cub Driver <usenet AT danford DOT net> wrote in
>> On Sun, 26 Mar 2006 15:43:29 GMT, (Ron Lee)
>>
>>>>Can a Sport Pilot fly over Independence Pass?
>>>
>>>One web source places the altitude at 12095 feet. You tell me if your
>>>aircraft and any possible sport pilot restrictions makes that
>>>realistic.
>>
>> 10,000 feet is Sport Pilot limit.

>Yup, I "think" the only way around for a Sport Pilot is El Paso... If
>there is another (better) one, I'd like to know about it.... I'm
>attempting to plan a sport pilot CC from SNA to OSH....

You may want to check into I-80 route. IIRC you can stay under 10K
the entire way.

[ET]

(Blanche Cohen) wrote in
:

> ET > wrote:
>>Cub Driver <usenet AT danford DOT net> wrote in
>>> On Sun, 26 Mar 2006 15:43:29 GMT, (Ron Lee)
>>>
>>>>>Can a Sport Pilot fly over Independence Pass?
>>>>
>>>>One web source places the altitude at 12095 feet. You tell me if
>>>>your aircraft and any possible sport pilot restrictions makes that
>>>>realistic.
>>>
>>> 10,000 feet is Sport Pilot limit.
>
>>Yup, I "think" the only way around for a Sport Pilot is El Paso... If
>>there is another (better) one, I'd like to know about it.... I'm
>>attempting to plan a sport pilot CC from SNA to OSH....
>
> You may want to check into I-80 route. IIRC you can stay under 10K
> the entire way.
>
>

Thanks I'll check it out...

The only thing I've done so far is play with the AOPA flight planner
using airways and staying under 10,000 feet... it comes up with through
El Paso, but I thought perhaps there might be a better way. This trip
is still several months away, & I'm not PIC.

--
-- ET >:-)

"A common mistake people make when trying to design something
completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete
fools."---- Douglas Adams

[Peter Duniho]

"Blanche Cohen" > wrote in message
...
> Most of the time, this is true. I-80 or I-40 are both great routes
> thru the ROckies. However I-70 over the Rockies thru Colorado is a NO-NO.

Yes, I agree. I did say "tend"...I suppose a more explicit qualification
could have been made. The terrain due west of Denver is challenging
regardless, IMHO. One of the hardest places to cross the Rockies,
especially in a low-power, non-turbo airplane. But most of the other
interstate routes aren't nearly as bad and, as you note, I-80 or I-40 are
both downright easy.

Pete

[Robert Barker]

"Cub Driver" <usenet AT danford DOT net> wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 26 Mar 2006 15:30:46 GMT, (Ron Lee)
> wrote:
>
>>Just be aware of TUNNELS like on I-70 west of Denver.
>
> Right! Be sure to put on your landing lights in the tunnel!
>
and honk your horn for luck!

[Robert Barker]

"Blanche Cohen" > wrote in message
...
> ET > wrote:
>>Cub Driver <usenet AT danford DOT net> wrote in
>>> On Sun, 26 Mar 2006 15:43:29 GMT, (Ron Lee)
>>>
>>>>>Can a Sport Pilot fly over Independence Pass?
>>>>
>>>>One web source places the altitude at 12095 feet. You tell me if your
>>>>aircraft and any possible sport pilot restrictions makes that
>>>>realistic.
>>>
>>> 10,000 feet is Sport Pilot limit.
>
>>Yup, I "think" the only way around for a Sport Pilot is El Paso... If
>>there is another (better) one, I'd like to know about it.... I'm
>>attempting to plan a sport pilot CC from SNA to OSH....
>
> You may want to check into I-80 route. IIRC you can stay under 10K
> the entire way.
>
>

The last page in the current March/April "Pilot Getaways" talks about flying
over The Divide... The southern routes: Along I-10 it gets up to 5000msl
and along I-40 the highest elevation is 7000msl - just keep an eye out for
White Sands! The northern routes along I-80 gets up to 6000msl but you have
to cross The Divide twice. I-80 only gets to 6500msl. I-70 or I-50, thru
the middle of Colorado both have passes of over 11000msl!

[Jerry]

There are gaps here in North Carolina.

Jerry in NC

"vincent p. norris" > wrote in message
...
> >A gap is in Vermont. ......
>
> And Pennsylvania.
>
> vince norris

[Morgans]

> > Right! Be sure to put on your landing lights in the tunnel!
> >
> and honk your horn for luck!

Lordy, no, if you are the one that had that Helio Courier that was at OSH,
what, two years ago?

For those who missed it, he had TRAIN horns, with bleed air from the turbine
engine, powering it!

I was spinning like a top, out on the taxiway (flagging planes at an
intersection), trying to locate the crash truck that was surely going to run
me down! <g>

Can you imagine a set of horns like that, going off in a tunnel??? :-)
--
Jim in NC

[GeorgeC]

Thanks, I think I'm beginning to understand.


On Sun, 26 Mar 2006 22:11:34 -0500, "Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe" <The Sea Hawk at
wow way d0t com> wrote:

>"GeorgeC" > wrote in message
...
>> To rephrase my question. I was look at the Colorado Pilots Association's
>> web
>> site and they have a listing of Colorado passes
>> http://www.coloradopilots.org/content_mtnfly_passes.asp?menuID=16~16 and
>> they
>> have a listing of Colorado gaps
>> http://www.coloradopilots.org/content_mtnfly_gaps.asp?menuID=16~16 . It
>> made me
>> wonder what's the difference between a gap and a pass.
>
>E. Explanation of different lists:
> a.. The list of gaps came from source 1 which combined passes and non-pass
>gaps, listing all as gaps. Those appearing in the List of Gaps are not
>passes (saddles on a ridge), but are narrow passages, often of a stream or
>road, and were determined by inspection of the 7.5 minute USGS map.
>
> b.. The List of Passes in Colorado without Official names contains passes
>I have discovered on maps or in person but could find no label, so have
>chosen a name from a nearby topographic feature.
>
> c.. The List of Passes in Colorado without complete information contains
>passes which are named, but which I have not yet been able to locate
>precisely
> d..
> --
> Geoff
> The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
> remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
> Spell checking is left as an excercise for the reader.
>

GeorgeC

[Matt Barrow]

"Jerry" > wrote in message
m...
> There are gaps here in North Carolina.
>
Remember, too, the historic "Cumberland Gap"

[Cub Driver]

Oh well, if we're collecting, there's also the Delaware Water Gap.
(That's where I did my mountain flying course :)


On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 03:55:44 GMT, "Jerry" >
wrote:

>There are gaps here in North Carolina.
>
>Jerry in NC
>
>"vincent p. norris" > wrote in message
...
>> >A gap is in Vermont. ......
>>
>> And Pennsylvania.
>>
>> vince norris
>


-- all the best, Dan Ford

email: usenet AT danford DOT net

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com

[Slarty Bartfast]

A flatlander pilot contemplating a trip through Colorado asked his
instructor to provide him with some training in mountain flying. This
included many simulated high density altitude takeoffs and landings.
Upon his return the pilot was heard to comment, "Man, I'm sure glad I
had that additional training. I was sorely tempted to use full power
taking off out of Leadville.
Steve