Air & Space Museum

[DCMacLean]

I'm going to be in Washington for a few days next month. I have
limited time and would like some opinions re the two Air & Space Museum
sites -- at the Mall vs at Dulles. Since I won't have time to do both
sites, which would be the better. We will have a couple of kids with us
also.
Thanks for any input.
DCMacLean

[Michelle]

DCMacLean wrote:
> I'm going to be in Washington for a few days next month. I have
> limited time and would like some opinions re the two Air & Space Museum
> sites -- at the Mall vs at Dulles. Since I won't have time to do both
> sites, which would be the better. We will have a couple of kids with us
> also.
> Thanks for any input.
> DCMacLean
What interests you more?
X-1? Voyager? Skylab mocckup? Missles? go downtown.
Space shuttle? Boeing 707? Concorde? Go to Dulles.

Michelle

[Orval Fairbairn]

In article >,
DCMacLean > wrote:

> I'm going to be in Washington for a few days next month. I have
> limited time and would like some opinions re the two Air & Space Museum
> sites -- at the Mall vs at Dulles. Since I won't have time to do both
> sites, which would be the better. We will have a couple of kids with us
> also.
> Thanks for any input.
> DCMacLean

If you are going to be in DC proper, go to the NASM in the Mall. It is
well worth the effort. The Udvar Hazy Museum is great, also, as it has
on display the big stuff that the downtown museum could not display.

My take: strawberry vs chocolate ice cream.

[Mortimer Schnerd, RN]

DCMacLean wrote:
> I'm going to be in Washington for a few days next month. I have
> limited time and would like some opinions re the two Air & Space Museum
> sites -- at the Mall vs at Dulles. Since I won't have time to do both
> sites, which would be the better. We will have a couple of kids with us
> also.



I've been to both of them and don't really have a preference... both are great.
I'd suggest you go to the one you can get to the easiest. If you're staying in
the District, go to the mall. Otherwise, Dulles is a lot easier to get to from
outside.

And if you ever get to make a trip by yourself, go visit Suitland, MD and check
out the Silver Hill facility where they do all the refurbishing. It's right off
Route 5 between DC and Marlow Heights.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

[Don Tuite]

On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 03:38:19 GMT, Orval Fairbairn
> wrote:

>In article >,
> DCMacLean > wrote:
>
>> I'm going to be in Washington for a few days next month. I have
>> limited time and would like some opinions re the two Air & Space Museum
>> sites -- at the Mall vs at Dulles. Since I won't have time to do both
>> sites, which would be the better. We will have a couple of kids with us
>> also.
>> Thanks for any input.
>> DCMacLean
>
>If you are going to be in DC proper, go to the NASM in the Mall. It is
>well worth the effort. The Udvar Hazy Museum is great, also, as it has
>on display the big stuff that the downtown museum could not display.
>
>My take: strawberry vs chocolate ice cream.

The thing about the mall is: you walk in, you look up, and there's
NX-211.

It does something to your knees.

Don

[GS]

DCMacLean wrote:

> I'm going to be in Washington for a few days next month. I have
> limited time and would like some opinions re the two Air & Space Museum
> sites -- at the Mall vs at Dulles. Since I won't have time to do both
> sites, which would be the better. We will have a couple of kids with us
> also.

By coincidence, I was just at both of them this past Sunday. Dulles had
some cool planes but all of them were way way way too clean. it looked
like every plane was re-painted yesterday and hand polished every day.
The one on the Mall was a bit better. They weren't about to repaint the
X15 or the SpaceShipOne. Seeing both of them gave me goosebumps.
Seeing some of the actual fabric and the broken propeller from the
Wright Flyer covered my entire body in goosebumps (I got my pilots
license the same day, 12/17/03...mine was 2003 though). I'd definitely
go for the mall. in all honesty though, the Museum of Flight in seattle
was better and in some ways the Pima Museum was better too even though
both don't have so many famous airplanes.

Gerald

[Peter Duniho]

"GS" > wrote in message
...
> [...] in all honesty though, the Museum of Flight in seattle was better
> and in some ways the Pima Museum was better too even though both don't
> have so many famous airplanes.

Ack! (And I mean that in a Bloom County Opus way)

I love the Pima Air & Space Museum in Tucson, and of course with the Museum
of Flight at Boeing Field in Seattle being practically in my back yard I
encourage any good words anyone has to say about it.

But better than the NASM?

Sorry, can't agree. I've seen similar statements made about the Dayton Air
Force Museum, and at least there I can see the point (even if I disagree).
But Pima and MoF just don't compare. The NASM has a breadth AND depth that
is unmatched, and at the Mall there are excellent side-exhibits (including a
most-awesome art gallery, and of course various art pieces throughout, along
with the planetarium and IMAX theater).

Besides, the NASM is the only place you can see "To Fly!". Frankly, that
alone would be the reason to see the original Mall site first, if you've
never been to either. Dulles will be there later, with all of its great
artifacts as well.

Pete

[Marty Shapiro]

"Peter Duniho" > wrote in
:


>
> Besides, the NASM is the only place you can see "To Fly!". Frankly,
> that alone would be the reason to see the original Mall site first, if
> you've never been to either. Dulles will be there later, with all of
> its great artifacts as well.
>
> Pete
>
>
>

"To Fly!" is available in VHS. A quick search found it at eBay and
Amazon.com. At one time there was also a LaserDisc version. I do not
recall ever seing a DVD version.

--
Marty Shapiro
Silicon Rallye Inc.

(remove SPAMNOT to email me)

[Roy Smith]

GS > wrote:
> By coincidence, I was just at both of them this past Sunday.

There is enough stuff in either to keep you busy for two or three days
each. How did you manage to do both in one day?

[Cub Driver]

On Mon, 27 Mar 2006 21:05:26 -0500, DCMacLean >
wrote:

> I'm going to be in Washington for a few days next month. I have
>limited time and would like some opinions re the two Air & Space Museum
>sites -- at the Mall vs at Dulles. Since I won't have time to do both
>sites, which would be the better. We will have a couple of kids with us
>also.

For a hard-core aviation nut, no question that the Udvar Hazy annex is
the place to be. But if you can do only the one, then I think you're
better off at the main musuem on the Mall. This is the most visited
museum in the world, and not only because it offers an air-conditioned
respite from DC in summer. It's much more of a theme park, while the
U-H annex is basically a hangar full of warbirds and important *types*
of civilian planes. There's an Imax both places, with kids and adults
queueing up for it, but the kids likely will enjoy even more the WWI
airfield and the aircraft carrier deck at the Mall museum. The
galleries are designed for visitors instead of being limited to
walkways. There's a full-bore food facility (just box lunches at U-H,
at least when I was there). And of course you can move on to another
museum when the kids tire of it, whereas at U-H you are in "edge city"
as it is called, endless motels and business parks and no sidewalks.

Either way, an experience not to be missed.


-- all the best, Dan Ford

email: usenet AT danford DOT net

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com

[Stubby]

DCMacLean wrote:
> I'm going to be in Washington for a few days next month. I have
> limited time and would like some opinions re the two Air & Space Museum
> sites -- at the Mall vs at Dulles. Since I won't have time to do both
> sites, which would be the better. We will have a couple of kids with us
> also.

Parking is difficult on the Mall. Try to use public transit.

[Ron Natalie]

DCMacLean wrote:
> I'm going to be in Washington for a few days next month. I have
> limited time and would like some opinions re the two Air & Space Museum
> sites -- at the Mall vs at Dulles. Since I won't have time to do both
> sites, which would be the better. We will have a couple of kids with us
> also.
> Thanks for any input.
> DCMacLean
If you want to see aircraft and spacecraft themselves, go to Dulles.
The Mall is space constrained and only has a few "name" artifiacts
like the Spirit of St. Louis, the dubious Wright Flyer, and Spaceship
One, for example. Lots of more "canned exhibits" like how things fly
and a pretty good remote sensing gallery.

[Ron Natalie]

Marty Shapiro wrote:
> "Peter Duniho" > wrote in
> :
>
>
>> Besides, the NASM is the only place you can see "To Fly!". Frankly,
>> that alone would be the reason to see the original Mall site first, if
>> you've never been to either. Dulles will be there later, with all of
>> its great artifacts as well.
>>
>> Pete
>>
>>
>>
>
> "To Fly!" is available in VHS. A quick search found it at eBay and
> Amazon.com. At one time there was also a LaserDisc version. I do not
> recall ever seing a DVD version.
>
To Fly! shows occasionally at Hazy (it's not in the rotation now
apprently). But since it was the FIRST movie that the NASM IMAX
had (and the only one for a long time), I've seen it a ton of times.

Best to check www.nasm.si.edu to see what is showing if you're going
to base your visit on what is there. They only show To Fly! one time
a day (1:45 currently) downtown.

Fighter Pilot and Magnificent Desolation are also good ones to see
in the current rotations. I haven't seen Roving Mars or Space
Station yet.

Maybe To Fly! will return to Hazy after they get rid of Harry Potter
(ugh).

[Ron Natalie]

Stubby wrote:
> DCMacLean wrote:
>> I'm going to be in Washington for a few days next month. I have
>> limited time and would like some opinions re the two Air & Space
>> Museum sites -- at the Mall vs at Dulles. Since I won't have time to
>> do both sites, which would be the better. We will have a couple of
>> kids with us also.
>
> Parking is difficult on the Mall. Try to use public transit.

Parking is easy at Hazy, but it is also being used to defray the
construction expense of the museum, so be prepared to pony up
$12 for the honor of parking at the free museum.

There are two good dodges for locals however. First off, if
you come in after 4PM (which gives you an hour and a half before
the voice of god announces that the Udvar-Hazy center is closed
and the security guards shoo you out) the parking is free because
the gate keepers go home then.

They also now have an annual pass for $65.

[Ron Natalie]

Stubby wrote:
> DCMacLean wrote:
>> I'm going to be in Washington for a few days next month. I have
>> limited time and would like some opinions re the two Air & Space
>> Museum sites -- at the Mall vs at Dulles. Since I won't have time to
>> do both sites, which would be the better. We will have a couple of
>> kids with us also.
>
> Parking is difficult on the Mall. Try to use public transit.

L'Enfant Plaza is a bit closer to the Mall musueum than the
Smithsonian Station (but they are both walkable).

I give up trying to park in DC during the daytime.

[Len]

DCMacLean wrote:
> I'm going to be in Washington for a few days next month. I have
> limited time and would like some opinions re the two Air & Space Museum
> sites -- at the Mall vs at Dulles. Since I won't have time to do both
> sites, which would be the better. We will have a couple of kids with us
> also.
> Thanks for any input.
> DCMacLean

I was there in February. The NASM in the Mall is partially under
renovation- it may be done now, but one of the larger galleries was
closed. However, it is absolutely still worth the effort. The Dulles
facility is excellent as well. If you have the time, I would recommend both.

Also there is a shuttle bus that runs back and forth from NASM to the
Dulles facility. It is quite convenient.

Len

[[email protected]]

>>>Ack! (And I mean that in a Bloom County Opus way)<<<

What's this? Bill the Cat masquerading as Pete Duniho? <G>

It's been a few years since I've been to DC and the Smithsonian, can't
wait to check out the U-H annex. Last time I was there the Enola Gay
exhibit was dumbed down to just displaying the 60ft fuselage and a
historical perspective on the A-bomb. Don't know what all the fuss over
this exhibit was about - IMO it was very low-key and respectful. I'd
like to see the EG complete as it is now like Bock's Car at the AF
Museum in Dayton. (Got a personal tour there a few years ago from the
colonel whose Saratoga I ferried out from CT)

Of all the museums I've been to: AZ's Pima A&S, Champlin Fighter
Museum, NY's Intrepid Air & Space Museum, American Airpower Museum,
National Warplane Museum, FL's Naval Aviation Museum at Pensacola and
Flying Tigers Resto Museum, RI's Quonset Air Museum, the New England
Air Museum here in CT - all have impressed me with their acft displays
because (most) weren't over-restored and shiny but looked more or less
as they served. My goal is to eventually hit all the major museums in
the US. I guess that leaves Weeks' Fantasy of Flight, Planes of Fame,
CAF museum in Midland TX, and PA's Mid-Atlantic Air Museum. Which
others have I missed?

[Peter Duniho]

"Marty Shapiro" > wrote in message
...
> "To Fly!" is available in VHS. A quick search found it at eBay and
> Amazon.com. At one time there was also a LaserDisc version. I do not
> recall ever seing a DVD version.

That must be what I was thinking of; I remember looking for a DVD copy for
myself, without success. Now that you mention it, I think the VHS version
may still be available new.

However, I wouldn't even consider getting it on VHS. Bad enough to have to
suffer through a standard-definition, small-screen DVD version if one
happened to be available. :)

But it's absolutely worth seeing on the full IMAX screen. A person who
hasn't yet, and who has the chance to, needs to do so. :)

Pete

[Alan]

Never been to the one at Dulles but the Mall Museum is fantastic. I
like historic and warbirds so that place was a treat. Go early on a
week-day and not a holiday week to try avoiding the crowds.


On Mon, 27 Mar 2006 21:05:26 -0500, DCMacLean >
wrote:

> I'm going to be in Washington for a few days next month. I have
>limited time and would like some opinions re the two Air & Space Museum
>sites -- at the Mall vs at Dulles. Since I won't have time to do both
>sites, which would be the better. We will have a couple of kids with us
>also.
> Thanks for any input.
> DCMacLean

[Flyingmonk]

For some reason, I like the one in DC better. Maybe because there are
other museums to visit right afterwards. Although I've been to both
many times, I still look forward to the next visit. :O)

The Monk

[Cub Driver]

On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 09:09:24 -0500, Ron Natalie >
wrote:

>Parking is easy at Hazy, but it is also being used to defray the
>construction expense of the museum, so be prepared to pony up
>$12 for the honor of parking at the free museum.

Still a bargain, especially if you fill the mini-van with friends or
kids.

>They also now have an annual pass for $65.

Wow. Talk about hard-core aviation nuts!



-- all the best, Dan Ford

email: usenet AT danford DOT net

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com

[JJS]

"Ron Natalie" > wrote in message ...
> Cub Driver wrote:
> =
>>
>>> They also now have an annual pass for $65.
>>
>> Wow. Talk about hard-core aviation nuts!
>>
>>
> Well, I only live 5 miles away from the museum. The other
> option is to participate in one of the volunteer opportunities
> there.

Hey, I saw Margie's name mentioned in the latest Air & Space "Airplane Meet & Greet" article. "Educator in
Residence". Cool!

Joe Schneider
84237R



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[John T]

Cub Driver wrote:
>
> For a hard-core aviation nut, no question that the Udvar Hazy annex is
> the place to be.

I agree - at least as far as "big" goes. Most important "firsts" are still
downtown, though, and I don't know of any plans to bring SpaceShip1 or
Voyager to Udvar-Hazy. Nonetheless, to get within a couple feet of the
Blackbird, Enterprise, Concorde and Enola Gay is impressive at U-H.

> There's a full-bore food facility (just box lunches at U-H,
> at least when I was there).

This has changed. The old Subway box lunch is gone while a new full-service
McDonald's has opened next door to the museum shop.

--
John T
http://sage1solutions.com/TknoFlyer
Reduce spam. Use Sender Policy Framework: http://spf.pobox.com
____________________

[Dave Stadt]

"John T" > wrote in message
m...
> Cub Driver wrote:
>>
>> For a hard-core aviation nut, no question that the Udvar Hazy annex is
>> the place to be.
>
> I agree - at least as far as "big" goes. Most important "firsts" are
> still downtown, though, and I don't know of any plans to bring SpaceShip1
> or Voyager to Udvar-Hazy. Nonetheless, to get within a couple feet of the
> Blackbird, Enterprise, Concorde and Enola Gay is impressive at U-H.

Speaking of Space Ship 1 does anybody know how the exhaust cone got
crunched? It is very obvious with it hanging up so high.

[Jay Honeck]

> I'm going to be in Washington for a few days next month. I have
> limited time and would like some opinions re the two Air & Space Museum
> sites -- at the Mall vs at Dulles. Since I won't have time to do both
> sites, which would be the better. We will have a couple of kids with us
> also.

As you can see, you have touched a nerve here. The two museums,
although affiliated, are quite different.

IMHO, if you only have time to see one museum, you must go downtown.
This is where all the "Firsts" are -- the Wright Flyer, the Spirit of
St Louis, the X-15, etc. You may never know if you'll have a chance
to get back to D.C., and your kids deserve to have seen "the real
deals" during their limited-time visit.

That said, I vastly prefer Udvar-Hazy. It is an airplane lovers
museum, as opposed to the Smithsonian downtown, which is more into
displays and exhibits. In time (as they get all of their aircraft on
display), I believe U-H will surpass the Air Force Museum in Dayton, OH
in excellence and diversity.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[LWG]

Yeah, and it's a McStarbuck's, too. The name says McDonalds, but the coffee
shop across from the restaurant has lattes, premium coffee and pastries just
like Starbucks, and near their prices, too. I actually thought it was good,
and I was happy to see something a little upscale, without being
ridiculously priced.

>> There's a full-bore food facility (just box lunches at U-H,
>> at least when I was there).
>
> This has changed. The old Subway box lunch is gone while a new
> full-service McDonald's has opened next door to the museum shop.
>
> --
> John T
> http://sage1solutions.com/TknoFlyer
> Reduce spam. Use Sender Policy Framework: http://spf.pobox.com
> ____________________
>
>

[Ron Natalie]

John T wrote:
> Cub Driver wrote:
>> For a hard-core aviation nut, no question that the Udvar Hazy annex is
>> the place to be.
>
> I agree - at least as far as "big" goes. Most important "firsts" are still
> downtown, though, and I don't know of any plans to bring SpaceShip1 or
> Voyager to Udvar-Hazy. Nonetheless, to get within a couple feet of the
> Blackbird, Enterprise, Concorde and Enola Gay is impressive at U-H.

SpaceShip 1 was actually at Hazy under a tarp for a while before it was
transported downtown. The White Knight is still being contracted out
by Rutan's folks and it remains to be seen if it will be remated with
SS1 if/when the latter arrives at Hazy. Voyager has a rather unique
form factor making it the perfect thing to hang over the visitor
services desk downtown, so it's likely so stay.

The neat thing about Hazy, is that it's not that it has neat aircraft
but it has neat instances of the neat aircraft...not just B-29, the
Enola Gay, not just a Vega, the Winnie Mae, not just a variez, Rutan's
ez. etc...

>
>> There's a full-bore food facility (just box lunches at U-H,
>> at least when I was there).
>
> This has changed. The old Subway box lunch is gone while a new full-service
> McDonald's has opened next door to the museum shop.
>

Yeah upscale McDonald's at highly upscaled prices. We can give you
some restaurant recommendations off-site nearby (much to the chagrin
of the profit making arm of the Smithsonian).

[Ron Natalie]

Dave Stadt wrote:
> "John T" > wrote in message
> m...
>> Cub Driver wrote:
>>> For a hard-core aviation nut, no question that the Udvar Hazy annex is
>>> the place to be.
>> I agree - at least as far as "big" goes. Most important "firsts" are
>> still downtown, though, and I don't know of any plans to bring SpaceShip1
>> or Voyager to Udvar-Hazy. Nonetheless, to get within a couple feet of the
>> Blackbird, Enterprise, Concorde and Enola Gay is impressive at U-H.
>
> Speaking of Space Ship 1 does anybody know how the exhaust cone got
> crunched? It is very obvious with it hanging up so high.
>
>
>
I dunno, but I suspect we can find out. It was sitting out at Hazy
completely wrapped in a blue tarp for a while (although the shape was
rather distictive so you knew what it was). I'll have to ask around.

[Orval Fairbairn]

In article >,
Ron Natalie > wrote:

> Dave Stadt wrote:
> > "John T" > wrote in message
> > m...
> >> Cub Driver wrote:
> >>> For a hard-core aviation nut, no question that the Udvar Hazy annex is
> >>> the place to be.
> >> I agree - at least as far as "big" goes. Most important "firsts" are
> >> still downtown, though, and I don't know of any plans to bring SpaceShip1
> >> or Voyager to Udvar-Hazy. Nonetheless, to get within a couple feet of the
> >> Blackbird, Enterprise, Concorde and Enola Gay is impressive at U-H.
> >
> > Speaking of Space Ship 1 does anybody know how the exhaust cone got
> > crunched? It is very obvious with it hanging up so high.
> >
> >
> >
> I dunno, but I suspect we can find out. It was sitting out at Hazy
> completely wrapped in a blue tarp for a while (although the shape was
> rather distictive so you knew what it was). I'll have to ask around.

The story is that the cone was dented on the original flight to 328 Kft;
it was repaired and stiffened in subsequent flights. It was restored to
the dented condition, to make it "authentic" -- to represent the way it
was after the first 328 Kft flight.

[Cub Driver]

On 30 Mar 2006 07:24:46 -0800, "Jay Honeck" >
wrote:

>That said, I vastly prefer Udvar-Hazy. It is an airplane lovers
>museum, as opposed to the Smithsonian downtown, which is more into
>displays and exhibits

Just so! The Mall museum is pitched really to the general public,
Udvar-Hazy to the aviation / history nuts.

I will not soon forget the knot of Japanese businessmen staring
without expression at the (Japanese) flying suicide bomb. Or, for that
matter, the different Japanese tour group looking down on Enola Gay.



-- all the best, Dan Ford

email: usenet AT danford DOT net

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com

[Jay Honeck]

> I will not soon forget the knot of Japanese businessmen staring
> without expression at the (Japanese) flying suicide bomb. Or, for that
> matter, the different Japanese tour group looking down on Enola Gay.

Yeah, there was a similar tour group there when we were at U-H. And
I've run into similar groups at the USAF Museum, and the SAC Museum,
both of which feature fighters and bombers from World War II.

I always wonder what they are thinking. Of course, if they're like
most of our citizens, they aren't thinking *anything*...

:-(
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jase Vanover]

In case you haven't got the picture yet from all the previous posts... you
can't go wrong with either choice. I lived in the DC area for 3.5 years.
Been to the mall museums multiple times, saw U-H shortly after it opened
(and shortly before moving away). They are both fabulous. It was before I
started flying myself (but the seed had been planted many years before).

Downtown, one of my biggest beefs was the crowds. There are a lot of
museums (all great, and if you have interests outside aviation and mucho
time... ya gotta go to the mall). U-H was brand new when I visited, and the
crowds were more reasonable, and that made some difference for me. Maybe
it's busier now... maybe because of the "remote" location it only attracts
the harder core aviation buffs... I don't know. What I do know is walking
in and seeing a blackbird laid out in all it's splendor before me, along
with countless incredible examples of aviation history, and being able to
walk up close to them (man, what I'd give to sit in a few cockpits) was
pretty damn cool.

To go back to the beginning and the only critical point of my post... you
can't go wrong with either. Just go and enjoy. You won't be disappointed.

"John T" > wrote in message
m...
> Cub Driver wrote:
>>
>> For a hard-core aviation nut, no question that the Udvar Hazy annex is
>> the place to be.
>
> I agree - at least as far as "big" goes. Most important "firsts" are
> still downtown, though, and I don't know of any plans to bring SpaceShip1
> or Voyager to Udvar-Hazy. Nonetheless, to get within a couple feet of the
> Blackbird, Enterprise, Concorde and Enola Gay is impressive at U-H.
>
>> There's a full-bore food facility (just box lunches at U-H,
>> at least when I was there).
>
> This has changed. The old Subway box lunch is gone while a new
> full-service McDonald's has opened next door to the museum shop.
>
> --
> John T
> http://sage1solutions.com/TknoFlyer
> Reduce spam. Use Sender Policy Framework: http://spf.pobox.com
> ____________________
>
>