Cessna 188 Agwagon as towplane

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I know there are several of these in operation as tow aircraft around
the country. I would like to know how they compare to standard Pawnees
in terms of:

1) performance
2) maintenance costs
3) insurance costs
4) fuel consumption

Also how to get tow plane conversions done, and how much that costs.

~ted/2NO

[BTIZ]

Not sure what you mean by cost for "Conversion". Unless that is the cost to
remove the spray equipment and install a tow hook if there is not one
already there. I cannot speak for the Cessna 188 operations.

If you have the choice, install either a retractable system, or a TOST
system. Schweizer parts are harder and harder to get and TOST is safer for
the tow pilot, less chance of a release failure when the glider kites and
pulls vertical on the Schweizer tow system. I think someone in Colorado can
offer up the process for getting a Piper Pawnee over to tow certification.

Our Pawnee PA-25-235, certified in the RESTRICTED category for glider and
banner tow, O-540 at 235HP, now rated at 250HP with engine STC costs on
average about $65 to $70 per flight hour to operate at 235HP, this includes
engine set aside, maintenance estimate, insurance and fuel.

I estimate the cost with insurance and higher fuel costs may be closer to
$80 per hour this year. I estimate 12 to 15 gph fuel burn with standard tow
operations, and approximately 4-5 tows per hour for winter operations when
tow altitudes for training is higher AGL. We average 200-250 hours per year
with oil and filter changes every 50 tach hours. We are a weekend only club
of about 50 members with 4 club gliders.

Performance, at 2833MSL, and summer temperatures over 100F, we would average
about 400-500fpm climb on 235HP with a heavy 2 seater on tow, SGS 2-33 or
Grob 103. Single seat, no water, about 600fpm.

All of the spray equipment was removed and our Pawnee converted to glider
tow by Schweizer at Elmira NY many years ago. We bought this Pawnee from a
Connecticut club. We operate at approximately 1200 lbs below max gross
weight with full fuel.

During the engine rebuild we changed to the approved lighter weight
propeller and upped the HP to 250HP. Now towing an SGS 1-26 we regularly see
in excess of 1000fpm on tow at 60knts or less, we don't even notice the 1-26
is there. We see on average about 100-150fpm increased climb rates with the
heavier gliders.

Ted, send me a good email address and I'll send you our cost factor
spreadsheet from last year.
bee tee eye zee two at cox dot net
www.lvvsa.org

BT

> wrote in message
ups.com...
>I know there are several of these in operation as tow aircraft around
> the country. I would like to know how they compare to standard Pawnees
> in terms of:
>
> 1) performance
> 2) maintenance costs
> 3) insurance costs
> 4) fuel consumption
>
> Also how to get tow plane conversions done, and how much that costs.
>
> ~ted/2NO
>

[Jack]

TSA tried one years ago and it just had too much wing to get down fast
enough to keep up with the Pawnees. It was a 300 hp as I remember. On
tow, it was a rocket, but it couldn't cycle as fast. I recall 1 tow in
a 1-35C behind it. It's been so long ago that I don't remember much
more than that... Hell to get old, ain't it? I guess it beats the
alternative...

Jack Womack

[Papa3]

One of our local FBOs used to have one as well as 2 Pawnees. The
Cessna only flew on rare occaisions. The FBO felt that it was "much
less economical" than the Pawnees. Unfortunately, I never really got
any details from him. My perception (from the back end of the rope)
was that it didn't climb quite as well as the Pawnees, but there are
way to many variables there to make a definitive statement.

End result is that they took it off the line pretty quickly.

P3

[Andy]

Talk to Scratch Lee at Littlefield about cost of operation. As to
performance, many SW USA contest pilots have towed behind Scratch's
wagon. I doubt there is a single pilot that wasn't glad to see they
got Scratch in the tow rotation.

Andy

[01-- Zero One]

Count me among those who breathed a little easier to see the blue and
white ahead of me.



Larry Goddard

-- zero one -

USA






"Andy" > wrote in message
ups.com:

> Talk to Scratch Lee at Littlefield about cost of operation. As to
> performance, many SW USA contest pilots have towed behind Scratch's
> wagon. I doubt there is a single pilot that wasn't glad to see they
> got Scratch in the tow rotation.
>
> Andy

[Papa3]

I realized after reading my post that it's probably worse than useless
[all innuendo, no substance]. I sent a note to the operator to find
out some specifics. If I get anything back I'll let you know.

[Gary Emerson]

Scratch and his Agwagon were a tremendous combination. Fantastic tows!

Andy wrote:
> Talk to Scratch Lee at Littlefield about cost of operation. As to
> performance, many SW USA contest pilots have towed behind Scratch's
> wagon. I doubt there is a single pilot that wasn't glad to see they
> got Scratch in the tow rotation.
>
> Andy
>