Auto Towing 2 Place Gliders

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Does anyone know of an operation in the U.S. regularly doing auto tows
with 2 place gliders?
(especially Blaniks or Grob 103s)
I am looking for feasability, realistic tow heights acheived, vehicle
requirements etc.
I will be operating from a 4600 foot paved runway.
Any information would be helpful.

[cfinn]

Contact Gary Hewett or Charlie Summers at Black Hills Soaring in South
Dakota, or Bob Hey at Sylacuga Soaring in Alabama.

[rich]

wrote:
> Does anyone know of an operation in the U.S. regularly doing auto tows
> with 2 place gliders?
> (especially Blaniks or Grob 103s)
> I am looking for feasability, realistic tow heights acheived, vehicle
> requirements etc.
> I will be operating from a 4600 foot paved runway.
> Any information would be helpful.


The CAP at Dillingham field on Oahu has been doing this for years, with
2-33's, and more recently a Blanik. They get around a 1000', works
well with the ridge next door. I think they do it with an old beater.
You'll have to call Soar Hawaii for contact info.
Rich

[Mark Lenox]

I've done it with a Blanik, several times.

2200' rope
5000' runway
1400' max height, 1000'-1200' is more typical.
full size SUV, V8, automatic transmission

We used 3/8 polypropylene, but I believe a much smaller diameter of spectra
would be much more ideal.

Make sure to use appropriate weak links, and be sure to have some spares!

Lots of fun, but lots of work too. It makes for a fun club outing.



Mark

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> Does anyone know of an operation in the U.S. regularly doing auto tows
> with 2 place gliders?
> (especially Blaniks or Grob 103s)
> I am looking for feasability, realistic tow heights acheived, vehicle
> requirements etc.
> I will be operating from a 4600 foot paved runway.
> Any information would be helpful.
>

[Doug Haluza]

I've seen MITSA do a similar operation with an L-23 at Sterling VT with
very similar numbers.

[Bill Daniels]

"Doug Haluza" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> I've seen MITSA do a similar operation with an L-23 at Sterling VT with
> very similar numbers.
>

The trick for auto tow is to determine the exact best length for the rope.
If you stretch out 5000 feet of rope on a 5000 foot runway, the tow car has
nowhere to go. If you use a very short rope, the car has lots of room but
you won't get very high. The optimum is somewhere in between and depends on
the acceleration of the tow car and the wind. The more powerful the car
and/or the greater the headwind, the longer rope that can be used.

On dry lakes with essentially unlimited room, I recall that a glider just
can't lift more than about 5500 feet of steel cable but can still reach 3000
feet AGL. Spectra would really pay off here.

George Moore has done some excellent mathematical models for winch launch.
He proves that under ideal conditions a launch can reach a height equal to
half the length of the runway which is quite a bit better than auto tow on a
typical runway. See the Yahoo Group 'winchdesign'.

Auto tow has lower 'up-front' costs but higher long term costs as tow cars
wear out. Winches have high start-up costs but the long term economics are
excellent.

Bill Daniels

[Gary Emerson]

wrote:
> Does anyone know of an operation in the U.S. regularly doing auto tows
> with 2 place gliders?
> (especially Blaniks or Grob 103s)
> I am looking for feasability, realistic tow heights acheived, vehicle
> requirements etc.
> I will be operating from a 4600 foot paved runway.
> Any information would be helpful.
>

Anyone remember the link that was out there some time back of the video
that was done of an auto tow where they used a payout winch on the back
of the tow vehicle. In the video they towed down the runway, off the
end of the runway, and the tow vehicle is headed down the airport
driveway about the time they release. Think it was a 2-33.

[Marc Ramsey]

Gary Emerson wrote:
> Anyone remember the link that was out there some time back of the video
> that was done of an auto tow where they used a payout winch on the back
> of the tow vehicle. In the video they towed down the runway, off the
> end of the runway, and the tow vehicle is headed down the airport
> driveway about the time they release. Think it was a 2-33.

http://www.nwskysports.com/video.html

[BTIZ]

Great Basin Soaring in Beatty NV does this on a regular basis with their
L-13.
BT


> wrote in message
oups.com...
> Does anyone know of an operation in the U.S. regularly doing auto tows
> with 2 place gliders?
> (especially Blaniks or Grob 103s)
> I am looking for feasability, realistic tow heights acheived, vehicle
> requirements etc.
> I will be operating from a 4600 foot paved runway.
> Any information would be helpful.
>

[Al Tyler]

We have ground launched a Grob Twin and a Blanik. We use a reverse
pulley and 3000ft. of 5\16" Armor rope (like Spectra). With a 5000ft
strip get 1000ft. average tow heigth. Al Tyler, Perry S.C.


--
Al Tyler
Posted at www.flight.org

[Roger Worden]

Orange County Soaring Association spent the last weekend doing just that at
Coyote Dry Lake in CA. We go out there once or twice a year for a weekend...
not exactly "regularly" but often enough. With a Chevy V8 turbo diesel
pickup and 2500' of steel cable, we launched a Blanik L13, a 2-33, a PiK,
and an ASW-20. Release heights varied from 1300' to 1500'. The width of the
dry lake at that point was about 2 miles, and sometimes we used up about 1.5
miles (that 2-33 is heavy!).

Pictures of past trips are available at
http://www.ocsoaring.org/Gallery/coyote.htm and
http://www.ocsoaring.org/Activities/campouts/coyote_dry_lake.htm. Pictures
of this trip will be posted in a week or so.

Roger

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> Does anyone know of an operation in the U.S. regularly doing auto tows
> with 2 place gliders?
> (especially Blaniks or Grob 103s)
> I am looking for feasability, realistic tow heights acheived, vehicle
> requirements etc.
> I will be operating from a 4600 foot paved runway.
> Any information would be helpful.
>
>

[Roger Worden]

Pictures of our latest autotow campout are now at
http://www.ocsoaring.org/Gallery/coyote%202006-04.htm. Included are shots of
a Blanik L13 and a Schweitzer 2-33 launching.


"Roger Worden" > wrote in message
. net...
> Orange County Soaring Association spent the last weekend doing just that
at
> Coyote Dry Lake in CA. We go out there once or twice a year for a
weekend...
> not exactly "regularly" but often enough. With a Chevy V8 turbo diesel
> pickup and 2500' of steel cable, we launched a Blanik L13, a 2-33, a PiK,
> and an ASW-20. Release heights varied from 1300' to 1500'. The width of
the
> dry lake at that point was about 2 miles, and sometimes we used up about
1.5
> miles (that 2-33 is heavy!).
>
> Pictures of past trips are available at
> http://www.ocsoaring.org/Gallery/coyote.htm and
> http://www.ocsoaring.org/Activities/campouts/coyote_dry_lake.htm. Pictures
> of this trip will be posted in a week or so.
>
> Roger
>
> > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> > Does anyone know of an operation in the U.S. regularly doing auto tows
> > with 2 place gliders?
> > (especially Blaniks or Grob 103s)
> > I am looking for feasability, realistic tow heights acheived, vehicle
> > requirements etc.
> > I will be operating from a 4600 foot paved runway.
> > Any information would be helpful.
> >
> >
>
>
>