Supplemental O2 and children

[Peter R.]

Does anyone have any experience using supplemental O2 with children ages
six and eight? Can this be done successfully (assuming the children are
very good at following directions)?

I am planning two round trip flights this summer in the non-pressurized
turbo Bonanza, one across the US from NY to Colorado and the second from NY
to North Carolina.

In both cases I would prefer to cruise in the mid-teens, which would
provide the best chance to be above the haze in the event that isolated
thunderstorms are about. Of course, all this would depend on whether my
children would be able to use either cannulas (preferably) or masks to
breath the supplemental O2.

--
Peter

[Jim Macklin]

You can have them use O2 when above 15,000 feet, they'll be
quieter without it.

Any mask must fit, children's faces are smaller, you may
need special masks. Cannulas are not as effective,
particularly if they are mouth breathers, but they are not
as claustrophobic as masks.



--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.


"Peter R." > wrote in message
...
| Does anyone have any experience using supplemental O2 with
children ages
| six and eight? Can this be done successfully (assuming
the children are
| very good at following directions)?
|
| I am planning two round trip flights this summer in the
non-pressurized
| turbo Bonanza, one across the US from NY to Colorado and
the second from NY
| to North Carolina.
|
| In both cases I would prefer to cruise in the mid-teens,
which would
| provide the best chance to be above the haze in the event
that isolated
| thunderstorms are about. Of course, all this would depend
on whether my
| children would be able to use either cannulas (preferably)
or masks to
| breath the supplemental O2.
|
| --
| Peter

[Robert M. Gary]

My boys have never had problems with the O2. My youngest usually trys
to avoid using it. The reason to have them wear O2 is to prevent head
aches, etc. However, most people just fall asleep, so its not an issue.

The cool thing is that its easy to calculate kids O2. Their canualas
are regular (not oxy-savers) so they use twice as much O2. However,
their bodys are smaller so they use 1/2 the O2. It all equals out in
the end, I just set the system to give them the same amount of O2 I'm
using. If they start to bug each other, I just turn their O2 down and
they fall asleep. I've talked to C-5 drivers that do the same when
Marines are sitting in the back.

-Robert (living in the Sierras).

[Mortimer Schnerd, RN]

Peter R. wrote:
> Does anyone have any experience using supplemental O2 with children ages
> six and eight? Can this be done successfully (assuming the children are
> very good at following directions)?


I can't remember ever wearing oxygen in an airplane but I grew up as an Air
Force Brat. When I was that age, I'm sure I would have found wearing oxygen to
be quite an adventure. You have to remember I was raised on stuff like Col.
Steve Canyon, etc....



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

[john smith]

In article om>,
"Robert M. Gary" > wrote:

> My boys have never had problems with the O2. My youngest usually trys
> to avoid using it. The reason to have them wear O2 is to prevent head
> aches, etc. However, most people just fall asleep, so its not an issue.
>
> The cool thing is that its easy to calculate kids O2. Their canualas
> are regular (not oxy-savers) so they use twice as much O2. However,
> their bodys are smaller so they use 1/2 the O2. It all equals out in
> the end, I just set the system to give them the same amount of O2 I'm
> using. If they start to bug each other, I just turn their O2 down and
> they fall asleep. I've talked to C-5 drivers that do the same when
> Marines are sitting in the back.

Corporate piltos do the same thing when the bosses in the back are drunk.

[Grumman-581]

"Peter R." > wrote in message
...
> Does anyone have any experience using supplemental O2 with children ages
> six and eight? Can this be done successfully (assuming the children are
> very good at following directions)?

Kids, following directions? ROTFLMAO !!!

Keep the O2 for yourself, that way the kids will fall asleep... Unless you
enjoy them asking, "Are we there, yet?" every 5 minutes...

[Morgans]

"john smith" > wrote

> Corporate piltos do the same thing when the bosses in the back are drunk.

So do commercial airline pilots, or they did a couple decades ago.

My dad was on a redeye to Germany, and trying to get some paperwork done,
and started getting sleepy. He had some very sensitive air pressure
measuring equipment, used in his line of work, and found they had raised the
cabin altitude, quite a bit. He told a stew to tell the captain to turn the
pressure back up; long to short, she said he didn't, he insisted, and
strangely enough, the pressure went back to normal.
--
Jim in NC

[john smith]

> > Does anyone have any experience using supplemental O2 with children ages
> > six and eight? Can this be done successfully (assuming the children are
> > very good at following directions)?

> Kids, following directions? ROTFLMAO !!!
> Keep the O2 for yourself, that way the kids will fall asleep... Unless you
> enjoy them asking, "Are we there, yet?" every 5 minutes...

Just watch for blue fingernails.

[Peter R.]

Grumman-581 > wrote:

> Kids, following directions? ROTFLMAO !!!

I realize that it may be hard to believe, but there are parents who
instill a strong sense of discipline and command a respect for authority,
*especially* when their children ride along in the aircraft.


--
Peter

[Peter R.]

Jim Macklin > wrote:

> You can have them use O2 when above 15,000 feet, they'll be
> quieter without it.

My concern had to do with the other side effects of lower O2 in their
blood, as in dizziness, nausea, irritability, etc.


--
Peter

[Morgans]

"Peter R." > wrote

> I realize that it may be hard to believe, but there are parents who
> instill a strong sense of discipline and command a respect for authority,
> *especially* when their children ride along in the aircraft.

Good for you. That is what it is all about, and it happens with the little
things in life.
--
Jim in NC

[Grumman-581]

"Peter R." > wrote in message
...
> I realize that it may be hard to believe, but there are parents who
> instill a strong sense of discipline and command a respect for authority,
> *especially* when their children ride along in the aircraft.

I instill fear... It lasts longer...

[Jim Macklin]

I get a tight feeling between my eyes, same as having two
beers when at 25,000 feet without O2. This was same
reaction every time I've been in the chamber at OKC. A
person in good health can do OK at 15,000 for some time if
they are not required to think or do any tasks. Hypoxia is
a cheap drunk for me, but I am peaceful and polite.

The pilot must use O2 any time above 14,000 while it must
only be available for passengers at 15,000. Personally, I
use O2 at and above 10,000 if it is available. At night,
you can notice the difference as low as 5,000 feet.

If you start using O2, leave it on until you're back to a
lower altitude, blood saturation drops very quickly and a
quick shot will bring you UP but it doesn't last unless you
stay on the O2. You can set the O2 regulator to deliver the
required amount of oxygen to maintain the blood at close to
100%, but you must keep it at 95% to stay fully alert. If
you have the available supply, everybody should use O2 at
10-12,000 or above.

The rules for Part 91 are not as tight as Part 135. Make
sure that you explain how to use and why to your passengers
and do a check to be sure everybody is getting their O2
[hoses get kinked, masks not on or sealed, tank empty.]
BTW, an O2 tank should never be run below 100 PSI, keeps all
the gas inside dry and rust free.



--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.


"Peter R." > wrote in message
...
| Jim Macklin > wrote:
|
| > You can have them use O2 when above 15,000 feet, they'll
be
| > quieter without it.
|
| My concern had to do with the other side effects of lower
O2 in their
| blood, as in dizziness, nausea, irritability, etc.
|
|
| --
| Peter

[Judah]

"Grumman-581" > wrote in
:

> "Peter R." > wrote in message
> ...
>> I realize that it may be hard to believe, but there are parents who
>> instill a strong sense of discipline and command a respect for
>> authority, *especially* when their children ride along in the
>> aircraft.
>
> I instill fear... It lasts longer...

Nothing works better than Bribery.

[Grumman-581]

"Judah" wrote in message
. ..
> Nothing works better than Bribery.

I would have to disagree... The problem with bribery is that sometimes the
individual won't stay bribed... Fear is a significantly better motivator...

[Dan]

Obviously, above a certain altitude, judgement would be impaired,
however what altitude and exposure time is required for permanent
damage to occur?

Dan

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

"Dan" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Obviously, above a certain altitude, judgement would be impaired,
> however what altitude and exposure time is required for permanent
> damage to occur?
>
> Dan
>

The answer appears to be "It depends"... Acclimation can make a big
difference. People climb Everest without O2, but they spend weeks
acclimating and I've read different opinions re: brain damage on them.

Smoking, the altititude you live at, etc. make a big difference when you
fly. Some examples:

http://www.smartcockpit.com/operations/Surviving%20Cabin%20Decompression.pdf
The effects of hypoxia may vary from one person to the next,

depending on the person's health, state of fatigue, state of

physical fitness and how much activity an individual must

perform. (Pilots and flight attendants require more oxygen

during an emergency than typical, healthy, seated passengers.)

Because the eyes and the brain have a high metabolism and

cannot store oxygen, they are most sensitive to oxygen

depletion; the first measurable decline in the body's functioning

occurs in sight, with some loss of night vision at altitudes as

low as 5,000 feet.22 After several hours at 10,000 feet, many

people experience a "measurable deterioration" of their mental

abilities and physical dexterity. At 18,000 feet, the mental

deterioration may be followed by unconsciousness; the TUC

at that altitude is about 15 minutes. At 25,000 feet, the TUC

may be as little as three minutes, and in some situations,

exposure to cabin altitudes of more than 25,000 feet without

supplemental oxygen for more than two minutes might result

in permanent brain damage. At higher altitudes, the TUC

decreases rapidly; at 40,000 feet, for example, the TUC may

be 15 seconds or less.

Other physical effects of decompression include the painful

expansion of gases in body cavities - the stomach and

intestines, the joints, diseased areas beneath the teeth and inside

decayed teeth - and pain in the middle ears and the sinuses

as the body adjusts to the pressure change.19 If the

decompression is slow, one of the early symptoms of hypoxia

is a blue tinge on the lips and under the fingernails; the color

change is a result of the reduction of oxygen in the hemoglobin

of red blood cells.23

see also:

http://ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief2.asp?ev_id=20020829X01491&ntsbno=ANC02IA093&akey=1

http://www.mos.org/Everest/exhibit/physiology.htm

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

[[email protected]]

Grumman-581 wrote:
> "Judah" wrote in message
> . ..
> > Nothing works better than Bribery.
>
> I would have to disagree... The problem with bribery is that sometimes the
> individual won't stay bribed... Fear is a significantly better motivator...

Respect is far better than any of the above...

[Grumman-581]

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> Respect is far better than any of the above...

Respect won't necessarily get someone to do something which they're not
normally inclined to do... Fear will...

[Peter Duniho]

"Grumman-581" > wrote in message
...
> Respect won't necessarily get someone to do something which they're not
> normally inclined to do...

If your kids are not normally inclined to behave themselves, you've screwed
up.

Granted, lots of parents are screw-ups.

[Grumman-581]

"Peter Duniho" > wrote in message
...
> If your kids are not normally inclined to behave themselves, you've
screwed
> up.

Kids have the attention span of a gnat... No kid is naturally inclined to
behave themselves... It's learned behavior... In my daughter's case, it's
learned behavior from fear of me... That's the way it has been throughout
history -- "Wait Until Your Father Gets Home"...

Children don't fear their mother... She's got 9 months invested in making
them... Fathers on the other hand are definitely to be feared... Fathers
only have 15 minutes invested... They're willing to cut their losses and
start again... Kids instinctively know this...

[Judah]

"Grumman-581" > wrote in
:

> > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>> Respect is far better than any of the above...
>
> Respect won't necessarily get someone to do something which they're not
> normally inclined to do... Fear will...

Fear only works when they think you're watching.

My father was a fear motivator. I just learned to lie better.

[Grumman-581]

"Judah" > wrote in message
. ..
> Fear only works when they think you're watching.

Well, you just need to make them think that you're always watching... My
daughter is thoroughly convinced that there is no way she can hide things
from me... Yeah, I'm probably a hypocrite -- I'm just trying to keep her
from doing the things that I did when I was young... If I'm successful,
she'll end up with quite a few less broken bones over the years...

> My father was a fear motivator. I just learned to lie better.

Ahhh, but that just means he wasn't good enough at it... If he had been
*really* good at it, you would have been terrified to even try to lie...
<evil-grin>

[Matt Barrow]

"Grumman-581" > wrote in message
...
> "Judah" > wrote in message
> . ..
>> Fear only works when they think you're watching.
>
> Well, you just need to make them think that you're always watching... My
> daughter is thoroughly convinced that there is no way she can hide things
> from me... Yeah, I'm probably a hypocrite -- I'm just trying to keep her
> from doing the things that I did when I was young... If I'm successful,
> she'll end up with quite a few less broken bones over the years...

Why not just teach them that good behavior is better for them in the long
run, then come up with scenarios that demonstrate that point?

>
>> My father was a fear motivator. I just learned to lie better.
>
> Ahhh, but that just means he wasn't good enough at it... If he had been
> *really* good at it, you would have been terrified to even try to lie...
> <evil-grin>

And then when they've grown and are out of the house you can look back at
what a derelict, dysfunctional person you created.

Good going "Dad"!!

(And we wonder why our world and our modern culture is so saturated with
thugs).