Scott Crossfield

[Bryan]

Scott Crossfield, was killed yesterday at the age of 84 while piloting his
Cessna 210A near Ranger, Georgia. Thunderstorms were reported in the area
at the time and some speculate that weather was a factor in the crash. An
aviation legend, Mr. Crossfield was the first man to fly at twice the speed
of sound and later in life was inducted into the National Aviation Hall of
Fame. More information, including some comments by Chuck Yeager, can be
found at Yahoo! News:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060421/ap_on_re_us/obit_crossfield_12



Bryan

[Andreas Maurer]

On Fri, 21 Apr 2006 17:21:51 -0500, "Bryan" >
wrote:

>Fame. More information, including some comments by Chuck Yeager, can be
>found at Yahoo! News:
>http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060421/ap_on_re_us/obit_crossfield_12

Typical Yeager comments, I'd like to add.
One cause why I detested Yeager's biography.

One cause why I loved Crossfield's biography is that he never spoke
bad about about anyone else.


Bye
Andreas

[Bruce]

Andreas Maurer wrote:
> On Fri, 21 Apr 2006 17:21:51 -0500, "Bryan" >
> wrote:
>
>
>>Fame. More information, including some comments by Chuck Yeager, can be
>>found at Yahoo! News:
>>http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060421/ap_on_re_us/obit_crossfield_12
>
>
> Typical Yeager comments, I'd like to add.
> One cause why I detested Yeager's biography.
>
> One cause why I loved Crossfield's biography is that he never spoke
> bad about about anyone else.
>
>
> Bye
> Andreas
Second that.

Crossfield came across as a gentleman. It is a great pity if the commments
attributed to Chuck Yeager were accurate. One would have thought that this would
be a good occasion for dignity.

I have to observe that you don't get to be a test pilot and reach 84 by taking
chances. Whatever his faults, Scott's contribution was enormous. His book
"Always another dawn" is a must read if you are interested in the glory days of
the NACA X program, and a different perspective on events.

Some referrence info is at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Crossfield
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_X-15

--
Bruce Greeff
Std Cirrus #57
I'm no-T at the address above.

[Bryan]

When I told my 86 year old retired Air Force pilot Dad about Scott
Crossfield's death his comment was "At least he died doing something he
loved." No wonder they call them The Greatest Generation.



Bryan



"Bruce" > wrote in message
...
> Andreas Maurer wrote:
>> On Fri, 21 Apr 2006 17:21:51 -0500, "Bryan" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Fame. More information, including some comments by Chuck Yeager, can be
>>>found at Yahoo! News:
>>>http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060421/ap_on_re_us/obit_crossfield_12
>>
>>
>> Typical Yeager comments, I'd like to add. One cause why I detested
>> Yeager's biography.
>>
>> One cause why I loved Crossfield's biography is that he never spoke
>> bad about about anyone else.
>>
>>
>> Bye
>> Andreas
> Second that.
>
> Crossfield came across as a gentleman. It is a great pity if the commments
> attributed to Chuck Yeager were accurate. One would have thought that this
> would be a good occasion for dignity.
>
> I have to observe that you don't get to be a test pilot and reach 84 by
> taking chances. Whatever his faults, Scott's contribution was enormous.
> His book "Always another dawn" is a must read if you are interested in the
> glory days of the NACA X program, and a different perspective on events.
>
> Some referrence info is at:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Crossfield
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_X-15
>
> --
> Bruce Greeff
> Std Cirrus #57
> I'm no-T at the address above.

[Tony]

I cant imagine anyone loving losing control in a thunderstorm and
becoming a smoking hole in the ground.

Tony
Cherokee II N373Y

Bryan wrote:
> When I told my 86 year old retired Air Force pilot Dad about Scott
> Crossfield's death his comment was "At least he died doing something he
> loved." No wonder they call them The Greatest Generation.
>
>
>
> Bryan
>
>
>
> "Bruce" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Andreas Maurer wrote:
> >> On Fri, 21 Apr 2006 17:21:51 -0500, "Bryan" >
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>Fame. More information, including some comments by Chuck Yeager, can be
> >>>found at Yahoo! News:
> >>>http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060421/ap_on_re_us/obit_crossfield_12
> >>
> >>
> >> Typical Yeager comments, I'd like to add. One cause why I detested
> >> Yeager's biography.
> >>
> >> One cause why I loved Crossfield's biography is that he never spoke
> >> bad about about anyone else.
> >>
> >>
> >> Bye
> >> Andreas
> > Second that.
> >
> > Crossfield came across as a gentleman. It is a great pity if the commments
> > attributed to Chuck Yeager were accurate. One would have thought that this
> > would be a good occasion for dignity.
> >
> > I have to observe that you don't get to be a test pilot and reach 84 by
> > taking chances. Whatever his faults, Scott's contribution was enormous.
> > His book "Always another dawn" is a must read if you are interested in the
> > glory days of the NACA X program, and a different perspective on events.
> >
> > Some referrence info is at:
> >
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Crossfield
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_X-15
> >
> > --
> > Bruce Greeff
> > Std Cirrus #57
> > I'm no-T at the address above.

[Shawn]

Bryan wrote:
> When I told my 86 year old retired Air Force pilot Dad about Scott
> Crossfield's death his comment was "At least he died doing something he
> loved." No wonder they call them The Greatest Generation.

Sycophantic journalists named them that. They won WWII and we should be
forever grateful, but what's so great about building a hyper-consuming,
unsustainable economy? Just how I see it when I try to look from my
children's perspective.

I look at Crossfield's crash as proof that the sky is equally merciless,
no matter who, or how good a stick, you are.
For the sake of his reputation, I hope they find a medical reason for
the crash.

Shawn

[Scott]

I think he probably meant "flying"...

Scott



Tony wrote:
> I cant imagine anyone loving losing control in a thunderstorm and
> becoming a smoking hole in the ground.
>
> Tony
> Cherokee II N373Y
>
> Bryan wrote:
>
>>When I told my 86 year old retired Air Force pilot Dad about Scott
>>Crossfield's death his comment was "At least he died doing something he
>>loved." No wonder they call them The Greatest Generation.
>>
>>
>>
>>Bryan
>>
>>
>>
>>"Bruce" > wrote in message
...
>>
>>>Andreas Maurer wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Fri, 21 Apr 2006 17:21:51 -0500, "Bryan" >
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Fame. More information, including some comments by Chuck Yeager, can be
>>>>>found at Yahoo! News:
>>>>>http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060421/ap_on_re_us/obit_crossfield_12
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Typical Yeager comments, I'd like to add. One cause why I detested
>>>>Yeager's biography.
>>>>
>>>>One cause why I loved Crossfield's biography is that he never spoke
>>>>bad about about anyone else.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Bye
>>>>Andreas
>>>
>>>Second that.
>>>
>>>Crossfield came across as a gentleman. It is a great pity if the commments
>>>attributed to Chuck Yeager were accurate. One would have thought that this
>>>would be a good occasion for dignity.
>>>
>>>I have to observe that you don't get to be a test pilot and reach 84 by
>>>taking chances. Whatever his faults, Scott's contribution was enormous.
>>>His book "Always another dawn" is a must read if you are interested in the
>>>glory days of the NACA X program, and a different perspective on events.
>>>
>>>Some referrence info is at:
>>>
>>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Crossfield
>>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_X-15
>>>
>>>--
>>>Bruce Greeff
>>>Std Cirrus #57
>>>I'm no-T at the address above.
>
>

[Jack]

Shawn wrote:

re: The Greatest Generation.

> Sycophantic journalists named them that. They won WWII and we should be
> forever grateful, but what's so great about building a hyper-consuming,
> unsustainable economy? Just how I see it when I try to look from my
> children's perspective.

They are "the Greatest Generation" now on the planet, especially when
compared to the one that whines about too much success.


> For the sake of his reputation, I hope they find a medical reason for
> the crash.

I got one right here -- he was eighty friggin' six, Shawn. I think his
reputation is well enough established, whatever the contributing factors
in his demise, that it will withstand the flaccid criticisms of those
fools who are not worthy to pull his chocks.


Jack

[Scott]

I think he was only 84. Are you saying he was too old to fly?

Scott


Jack wrote:


>
>
> I got one right here -- he was eighty friggin' six, Shawn. I think his
> reputation is well enough established, whatever the contributing factors
> in his demise, that it will withstand the flaccid criticisms of those
> fools who are not worthy to pull his chocks.
>
>
> Jack

[Jack]

Scott wrote:
> I think he was only 84. Are you saying he was too old to fly?

Right you are, Scott -- only 84. I guess that changes everything then, eh?

Who are we to say if Scott Crossfield was "too old to fly"?

Big Weather has surprises for all of us. One could easily fly for 840
years and not see it all.


Jack


> Jack wrote:
>> ...I think his reputation is well enough established, whatever the
>> contributing factors in his demise, that it will withstand the
>> flaccid criticisms of fools who are not worthy to pull his chocks.

[Tony]

One doesnt even need to fly for one year to know better than mess with
the Big Weather. At least thats what I thought.

[Jack]

Tony wrote:
> One doesnt even need to fly for one year to know better than mess with
> the Big Weather. At least thats what I thought.

And the more years one flies for a living, the more ways one finds to
chisel away at that psychological wall between you and Big Weather --
until you are left with something closer to the essentials of its
indomitable nature. And still they are more than we can fully grasp.

Every day's a new day: isn't that what we love about flying?


Jack

[Shawn]

Jack wrote:
> Shawn wrote:
>
> re: The Greatest Generation.
>
>> Sycophantic journalists named them that. They won WWII and we should
>> be forever grateful, but what's so great about building a
>> hyper-consuming, unsustainable economy? Just how I see it when I try
>> to look from my children's perspective.
>
>
> They are "the Greatest Generation" now on the planet, especially when
> compared to the one that whines about too much success.

They bought some of their "greatness" on the backs of their unborn
grandkids. Buy now, those "whiners" pay later. How nice.

>> For the sake of his reputation, I hope they find a medical reason for
>> the crash.
>
>
> I got one right here -- he was eighty friggin' six, Shawn. I think his
> reputation is well enough established, whatever the contributing factors
> in his demise, that it will withstand the flaccid criticisms of those
> fools who are not worthy to pull his chocks.

Has Pete Rose gotten into the Baseball Hall of Fame? News to me.
Like I said in the portion of my post you deleted, the sky is not
merciful of anyone's mistakes. Are you saying that this great pilot was
above all criticism, no matter how badly he screwed up (if he did)?
*If* this crash was due to pilot error, he made the second worse mistake
a pilot can make-one that kills himself (the worst is taking innocent
people with you).


Shawn

[Jack]

Shawn wrote:

> Has Pete Rose gotten into the Baseball Hall of Fame? News to me.
> Like I said in the portion of my post you deleted, the sky is not
> merciful of anyone's mistakes. Are you saying that this great pilot was
> above all criticism....

So now you are competent to criticize Rose's ball playing, as well as
Crossfield's flying? Gee, I sure hope my spell-checker is working: I
feel so vulnerable.

Any soaring in your area?


Jack

[Shawn]

Jack wrote:
> Shawn wrote:
>
>> Has Pete Rose gotten into the Baseball Hall of Fame? News to me.
>> Like I said in the portion of my post you deleted, the sky is not
>> merciful of anyone's mistakes. Are you saying that this great pilot
>> was above all criticism....
>
>
> So now you are competent to criticize Rose's ball playing, as well as
> Crossfield's flying? Gee, I sure hope my spell-checker is working: I
> feel so vulnerable.

We're all competent to criticize the clear errors of any pilot.
Problems can arise when those criticisms aren't made because the pilot
who saw the mistake "Isn't worthy to pull his chocks" or the criticism
goes unheeded due to the said unworthiness of the messenger.

Re: Pete Rose, I meant that Pete Rose was a great player but because of
the gambling BS his reputation and chance at Cooperstown has been hurt.
That last mistake can be what you're remembered by if for no other
reason than it gets used as an example.
E.g. "Don't bet on games or you'll end up like Rose." or "Even
Crossfield augured in in a Cessna so it can certainly happen to you."

> Any soaring in your area?

Some of the best.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ChaffeeSoaring/
Yesterday looked like the best day so far this spring.

Shawn

[Jack]

Shawn wrote:

> We're all competent to criticize the clear errors of any pilot.

When you put "clear" and "competent" in the same sentence you are
stacking the deck. Accident results are usually pretty clear: causes are
rarely clear, despite the bureaucratic necessity of assigning "probable"
cause.

"Black and white" views of the world have a way of changing with years
and experience, if you're lucky. I wish you many years and thousands of
flight hours of good fortune.


Jack

[Tony Verhulst]

Bryan wrote:
> Scott Crossfield, was killed yesterday at the age of 84 while piloting his
> Cessna 210A near Ranger, Georgia. Thunderstorms were reported in the area
> at the time and some speculate that weather was a factor in the crash. An
> aviation legend, Mr. Crossfield was the first man to fly at twice the speed
> of sound and later in life was inducted into the National Aviation Hall of
> Fame. More information, including some comments by Chuck Yeager, can be
> found at Yahoo! News:
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060421/ap_on_re_us/obit_crossfield_12


His plane broke up in a level 6 thunderstorm, according to the NTSB -
http://www.comcast.net/news/national/index.jsp?cat=DOMESTIC&fn=/2006/04/27/378857.html

Tony V.

[[email protected]]

Generally speaking in these situations it is pilot error to fly into an
area of known thunderstorms. And they will blame him, appropriately,
even if he didn't know, but it was forecast (you're supposed to get a
briefing before you go). There is a *small* possibility that the
thunderstorms were not forecast from weather that built up very
suddenly.

The NTSB is chock full of accident findings whose cause is pilots
venturing into to bad or deteriorating weather conditions. But you
would like to think that a pilot of this stature would not make such a
foolish mistake. The rest of the facts will become known soon enough.

Tom