Adventure of a landing into KSAV

[Gary]

I was flying my Sundowner into Savannah last week and this was
actually my first time into a class C without an instructor. I
monitored approach before callling - he was very busy with kerosene
burners which surprised me on a Sunday even if it was around 5pm. I
was on a long cross country and this was my final destination.

KSAV has two runways - 9/27 and 18/36. Wind was about 16 knots gusting
over 20 if I remember and it was out of 270 so I was expecting 27. I
was finally able to get my call in to approach but he vectored me to 18
while he was landing jets on 27. Hmmm, I thought for a moment to ask
for 27, but thought that would really screw up his sequencing. Well
seeing as the Sundowner is the most stable crosswind plane I've flown,
and I felt reasonably competent with it, I kept my mouth shut and set
up for 18.

Well...it turned out to be one of the most interesting landing I've
ever made. I think I had in most, if not all left rudder with the
right wing down to keep it lined up. Approach/speed was good but must
have hit a gust while trying to set it down so gave it throttle and
momentarily considered a go around - but saw all that runway ahead of
me so tried to ease it back down. This sequence repeated itself about
3 times and I was having a heck of a time trying not to drift too far
left. Finally caught a break with the gusts and set it down after
using most of the runway. Once I parked and got out I couldn't believe
how much the wind was howling... 90 degress to 18.

So I guess I'm curious as to what some of you might have done under the
circumstances - would you have asked for 27? Even though it was an
adventure, I never felt I was not in control... so maybe if you're
flying into a busy class b or c, they assume a certain level of skill?


Gary

[Margy Natalie]

Gary wrote:
> I was flying my Sundowner into Savannah last week and this was
> actually my first time into a class C without an instructor. I
> monitored approach before callling - he was very busy with kerosene
> burners which surprised me on a Sunday even if it was around 5pm. I
> was on a long cross country and this was my final destination.
>
> KSAV has two runways - 9/27 and 18/36. Wind was about 16 knots gusting
> over 20 if I remember and it was out of 270 so I was expecting 27. I
> was finally able to get my call in to approach but he vectored me to 18
> while he was landing jets on 27. Hmmm, I thought for a moment to ask
> for 27, but thought that would really screw up his sequencing. Well
> seeing as the Sundowner is the most stable crosswind plane I've flown,
> and I felt reasonably competent with it, I kept my mouth shut and set
> up for 18.
>
> Well...it turned out to be one of the most interesting landing I've
> ever made. I think I had in most, if not all left rudder with the
> right wing down to keep it lined up. Approach/speed was good but must
> have hit a gust while trying to set it down so gave it throttle and
> momentarily considered a go around - but saw all that runway ahead of
> me so tried to ease it back down. This sequence repeated itself about
> 3 times and I was having a heck of a time trying not to drift too far
> left. Finally caught a break with the gusts and set it down after
> using most of the runway. Once I parked and got out I couldn't believe
> how much the wind was howling... 90 degress to 18.
>
> So I guess I'm curious as to what some of you might have done under the
> circumstances - would you have asked for 27? Even though it was an
> adventure, I never felt I was not in control... so maybe if you're
> flying into a busy class b or c, they assume a certain level of skill?
>
>
> Gary
>
We were flying into Dulles on one of those days only idiots were out
flying (cold, windy, etc) and Ron was holding quite a crab as he lined
up for 1L. As a matter of fact the crab angle was just right for
landing on 30 (which they almost NEVER do as you have to cross the
approach (or departure) for 1L/19R and 1R/19L. Ron calls the tower and
says "if I promise not to go any farther east can I land on 30",
"Cleared to land 30". As we were taxiing back I see a LARGE landing
light headed right for us. Seems the 767 lined up for 1R thought 30 was
a really good idea also.

Margy

[Frank Ch. Eigler]

"Gary" > writes:

> [...] Finally caught a break with the gusts and set it down after
> using most of the runway. [...] 90 degrees to 18.
>
> So I guess I'm curious as to what some of you might have done under
> the circumstances - would you have asked for 27? Even though it was
> an adventure, I never felt I was not in control... [...]

I've encountered such scenarios several times. It's exciting, but the
state of relief after safely taxiing off is a signal that it was
perhaps exciting in the wrong way. In the long seconds of an very
iffy flare, one tends to forget cooler judgment, a proper balance of
risk & reward. One just wants to "make it work". And if it doesn't
work out? ... Well, one's too busy to think about that just then.

This is one reason why Jay & Jim's windy aztec-breaking landing was
disheartening to read of. With only a little more bad luck, it could
have ended much worse.

- FChE

[Doug]

With 16 gusting higher out of 270 I would have asked for runway 27. No
question about it.

[Jack Allison]

Doug wrote:
> With 16 gusting higher out of 270 I would have asked for runway 27. No
> question about it.
>
I'm with you Doug. You can always ask. Doesn't mean you'll get it but
if you don't ask, you'll *never* get what you want.


--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL-Instrument Airplane
Arrow N2104T

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

[john smith]

In article . com>,
"Gary" > wrote:

> Wind was about 16 knots gusting
> over 20 if I remember and it was out of 270 so I was expecting 27.

The steady wind is already at your aircrafts maximum demonstrated
crosswind limit. Always ask for the runway of your choice.

[Peter Duniho]

"Gary" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> [...]
> So I guess I'm curious as to what some of you might have done under the
> circumstances - would you have asked for 27? Even though it was an
> adventure, I never felt I was not in control... so maybe if you're
> flying into a busy class b or c, they assume a certain level of skill?

I probably would've asked for 27. That said, who knows for sure. I wasn't
there, and if I had been, I might have done what you did for all I know.

It's good to explore your limits, especially in a reasonably safe situation.
Every landing is a potential go-around anyway, and you had lots of runway to
play with, both with respect to length (7000 feet) and width (150 feet).
Heck, in that situation, you might even consider landing a bit diagonally,
to take a few degrees out of the crosswind. The important thing is to be
ready and willing to recognize things aren't working out, to not push a
situation too far, and to go-around and take the easier way out if
necessary.

As far as ATC goes, I don't think they assume a certain level of skill so
much as they are usually happy to keep things convenient for themselves as
long as the pilots aren't complaining. :) I don't blame them...why offer a
disruption in their sequence if the pilot (who is responsible for the safety
of their aircraft) isn't asking for one?

That said, I've never had ATC complain about a request for an alternate
runway. Occasionally it results in a delay for me, but that's no big deal.
Five or ten minutes holding over some point while I wait for a break in
traffic, rather than wrestling with the airplane and possibly having to go
for the alternate runway anway? Seems like a small price to pay.

Sounds like you got yourself an honest-to-goodness learning experience. You
know now you can handle that kind of crosswind if you have to, but you also
know that if you have an alternative you probably want to take it.

Pete

p.s. By the way, as far as fitting into the traffic on the longer runway
goes, I don't know how the controllers there deal with things, but here in
Seattle at Boeing Field, they use a "mid-field base" for a couple of
purposes. One is to land two small airplanes at once (one uses the first
half of the runway, the other uses the second half after flying the
mid-field base leg). Another is to allow a small airplane to fit into the
traffic pattern even if a larger airplane is on final. The small airplane
can fly a downwind, mid-field base and land on the second half of the runway
without interfering with a larger airplane a few miles out.

[Ron Lee]

>So I guess I'm curious as to what some of you might have done under the
>circumstances - would you have asked for 27? Even though it was an
>adventure, I never felt I was not in control... so maybe if you're
>flying into a busy class b or c, they assume a certain level of skill?

I would have asked for 27. If you had an accident the first question
would be "Why the heck didn't he land on 27?"

Ron Lee

[john smith]

Remember to make your decision early.
You should have the ATIS by the time you are 30 nm from the airport.
Let the approach controller know what runway you want early enough that
you will be sequenced in by the time you get to the final approach
controller.