microTracker/microRecorder

[Bob]

Does anyone have any first hand experience of the
microTracker/micoRecorder products from EW?

http://www.ewuk.co.uk/

Thanks,

Bob

[Paul Remde]

Hi,

The MicroRecorder looks very interesting. Does anyone know whether they
have applied for IGC approval yet? Are they shipping units yet? If the
price is right it could be a big seller. What is the price?

Thanks,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com

"Bob" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Does anyone have any first hand experience of the
> microTracker/micoRecorder products from EW?
>
> http://www.ewuk.co.uk/
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bob
>

[Bob]

>From their Web site...465 pounds for the microRecorder and 312 pounds
for the microTracker.
That's roughly US$850 and US$570 respectively.

Bob

[TTaylor at cc.usu.edu]

If they try to do the same thing with the software they did on the
first units I would avoid them at all costs. Non-standard file formats
and only providing a DOS version with the unit. You then had to pay
extra to get a windows based software package. As a current owner of
one of their units I would recommend using any other manufacturer.

Tim

[TTaylor at cc.usu.edu]

History of customer service and respect for customers (or lack there
of) is always relevant.

Tim

[Philip Plane]

In article om>, Bob wrote:
> Does anyone have any first hand experience of the
> microTracker/micoRecorder products from EW?
>
> http://www.ewuk.co.uk/

I saw a prototype earlier this year and looked it over. The
concept is really good. The unit is simple to use, it just
presents itself as a USB storage device, like many cameras.

Given the problems people have with traditional units that
deliver logs over serial connections I think this is going to
be a very popular logger.

It's very compact too.

The external antenna is a mixed blessing. But you can always stick
it to the top of the unit.

--
Philip Plane _____
|
---------------( )---------------
Glider pilots have no visible means of support

[Mark Hawkins]

Downloading the flights as a USB drive is one thing. A VERY good thing
I think. But that doesn't explain how little things like task
declarations and pilot/glider info get into the device in the first
place. Gotta have some sort of program or protocol to get it in there.
Hopefully they won't be assuming that this info will be configured
into the device before a user leaves home. That just is NOT realistic.
Hopefully they have allowed for it to be easily done from a PDA
device. As a developer of one of those PDA programs, it would be nice
if this didn't entail having to implement yet another protocol for
doing these things. But alas, my gut feeling is that this will not be
the case. Creativity breeds individuality as well as complexity I'm
afraid.

Later!

-Mark
Philip Plane wrote:
> In article om>, Bob wrote:
> > Does anyone have any first hand experience of the
> > microTracker/micoRecorder products from EW?
> >
> > http://www.ewuk.co.uk/
>
> I saw a prototype earlier this year and looked it over. The
> concept is really good. The unit is simple to use, it just
> presents itself as a USB storage device, like many cameras.
>
> Given the problems people have with traditional units that
> deliver logs over serial connections I think this is going to
> be a very popular logger.
>
> It's very compact too.
>
> The external antenna is a mixed blessing. But you can always stick
> it to the top of the unit.
>
> --
> Philip Plane _____
> |
> ---------------( )---------------
> Glider pilots have no visible means of support

[Paul Remde]

Hi Mark,

Good point. All Pocket PCs (and Palm OS devices I believe) are USB slaves.
They can't therefore talk to another USB slave such as this device.
Hopefully, they have also included an RS-232 serial port on the device so
that PDAs can send it a task declaration before flight. Otherwise a laptop
would be required.

Good Soaring,

Paul Remde

"Mark Hawkins" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Downloading the flights as a USB drive is one thing. A VERY good thing
> I think. But that doesn't explain how little things like task
> declarations and pilot/glider info get into the device in the first
> place. Gotta have some sort of program or protocol to get it in there.
> Hopefully they won't be assuming that this info will be configured
> into the device before a user leaves home. That just is NOT realistic.
> Hopefully they have allowed for it to be easily done from a PDA
> device. As a developer of one of those PDA programs, it would be nice
> if this didn't entail having to implement yet another protocol for
> doing these things. But alas, my gut feeling is that this will not be
> the case. Creativity breeds individuality as well as complexity I'm
> afraid.
>
> Later!
>
> -Mark
> Philip Plane wrote:
>> In article om>, Bob
>> wrote:
>> > Does anyone have any first hand experience of the
>> > microTracker/micoRecorder products from EW?
>> >
>> > http://www.ewuk.co.uk/
>>
>> I saw a prototype earlier this year and looked it over. The
>> concept is really good. The unit is simple to use, it just
>> presents itself as a USB storage device, like many cameras.
>>
>> Given the problems people have with traditional units that
>> deliver logs over serial connections I think this is going to
>> be a very popular logger.
>>
>> It's very compact too.
>>
>> The external antenna is a mixed blessing. But you can always stick
>> it to the top of the unit.
>>
>> --
>> Philip Plane _____
>> |
>> ---------------( )---------------
>> Glider pilots have no visible means of support
>

[Jack]

Paul Remde wrote:
> Hi Mark,
>
> Good point. All Pocket PCs (and Palm OS devices I believe) are USB slaves.
> They can't therefore talk to another USB slave such as this device.

Our two T-3 Palms talk to each other very well, for many purposes. How
is that different?


Jack

[ContestID67]

I guess my issue is mounting the item. I don't see any mounting
bracket, lugs, flanges, etc. The documentation states the following;

"The microRecorder may be installed in any convenient position. Velcro
tape is ideal for the purpose."

VELCRO? Even though it only weights 300g (10.5oz) I am unsure if I
want it coming loose at an inopportune moment and becoming a projectile.

[Mark Hawkins]

Those were the first Palm devices that had the ability to become USB
masters.

The webpage says that the devices outputs NMEA data for moving map
displays. I've emailed them to ask about task declarations as well.

Later!

-Mark

[ContestID67]

My comments.

First, serial ports are fast disappearing from all computers. USB
PCMCIA adapters are clunky and problematic. At some point we are going
to need to get all of our flight recorders migrated over the USB and
stop being ludites. It appears that this device is the first to do so.
Hurrah for them and not getting stuck in the past! I am sure that RAM
can come up with a USB version of their cradles for use with a PDA.

Second, this device has a wonderful feature that when you plug it into
your computer it appears as another "hard drive" similar to a thumb
drive. Theoretically that should work with both Windows and Macintosh.
Wow, is that slick or what? No software, no problem with uploading
and downloading. Very cool.

<Soap-box warning> Lastly, the proprietary nature of the communications
channel may or may not be an issue, time will tell. However it seems
that every FR out there is proprietary at some level. Has anyone
stepped forward to set a standard (like NMEA for GPS communications)
for FR <=> PDA communications? If they haven't, and I don't think
that they have, they certainly should do so like most every other
industry. At first going non-proprietary seems like the fast track to
loosing previous market share, but once you see past this stumbling
block the market grows and everyone wins. Witness 802.11 Wi-Fi. Who
would have thought that it would be so huge? Standards made that
happen. Where would we be if our 3/8" socket set was unique at 11/16"
or 15/32"? 5x as expensive. </soap-box warning>

[Edward Lockhart]

Declarations, pilot/glider details and settings are
saved in a .txt file, easily edited with Notepad or
similar program.

The manual says the RJ45 socket and lead is wired for
external power, pilot event and NMEA out. The only
way to input data would be through the USB lead.

The assumption is that you'll have access to a computer
at your airfield, which is a bit tough on those of
you flying from a dirtstrip in the middle of nowhere
and no laptop.

If you don't have cockpit storage space and don't trust
velcro, tape it to your shoulder strap, battery mount,
wherever. Or make your own mount.

Edward

[Paul Remde]

Hi,

The latest version of the LX Colibri can also talk to a PC over a USB port.
But it also has an RS-232 serial port for talking to a PDA. PDAs can
download flight logs and upload task declarations to it. I hope the new
device can do the same. It does look very interesting.

Good Soaring,

Paul Remde

"ContestID67" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> My comments.
>
> First, serial ports are fast disappearing from all computers. USB
> PCMCIA adapters are clunky and problematic. At some point we are going
> to need to get all of our flight recorders migrated over the USB and
> stop being ludites. It appears that this device is the first to do so.
> Hurrah for them and not getting stuck in the past! I am sure that RAM
> can come up with a USB version of their cradles for use with a PDA.
>
> Second, this device has a wonderful feature that when you plug it into
> your computer it appears as another "hard drive" similar to a thumb
> drive. Theoretically that should work with both Windows and Macintosh.
> Wow, is that slick or what? No software, no problem with uploading
> and downloading. Very cool.
>
> <Soap-box warning> Lastly, the proprietary nature of the communications
> channel may or may not be an issue, time will tell. However it seems
> that every FR out there is proprietary at some level. Has anyone
> stepped forward to set a standard (like NMEA for GPS communications)
> for FR <=> PDA communications? If they haven't, and I don't think
> that they have, they certainly should do so like most every other
> industry. At first going non-proprietary seems like the fast track to
> loosing previous market share, but once you see past this stumbling
> block the market grows and everyone wins. Witness 802.11 Wi-Fi. Who
> would have thought that it would be so huge? Standards made that
> happen. Where would we be if our 3/8" socket set was unique at 11/16"
> or 15/32"? 5x as expensive. </soap-box warning>
>

[Mark Hawkins]

I've exchanged a couple of emails with them now and they may be able to
accept declarations through the serial port for the production units in
the few weeks. They're looking at various transfer formats and other
similar details to make sure things will work properly. More soon but
the replies with them have been VERY fast and the product sounds like
it will be VERY good.

-Mark

[Graham Paul]

We have read with interest the questions and speculation
on the microRecorder, and have compiled a list of questions
and answers to cover the points raised. These can also
be found at http://www.ewavionics.com/1. How do I access files on the microRecorder?The microRecorder has a USB 2.0 interface and appears
as a removable drive on Windows 2000 and above. No
software or drivers are required to communicate with
microRecorder or for file downloads.File can be opened directly from Windows Explorer.
The microRecorder is compatible with Mac and Linux
operating systems. Windows 98SE can be used with additional
drivers depending on your hardware. USB 2.0 ports can
be added to your computer or laptop with low cost (less
than £10) PCI or PCMCIA cards available online or from
EW. 2. What file format is used?The microRecorder stores IGC files in plain text that
can be read directly in a text editor or flight software
(e.g. SeeYou / Winpilot).3. How do I enter my Pilot information and change the
settings of the microRecorder?The microRecorder has a plain text file called EW-USER.txt
on the removable drive. Pilot, glider, competition
ID etc can be entered here over the USB interface.
In addition the update rate and auto power off settings
can be modified.4. Can I make electronic flight declarations? Yes. Electronic declarations are made in the EW-USER.txt
using the USB interface. The microRecorder enters any
declaration made into the IGC file at the start of
each flight. If Declarations are present then they
appear in the IGC file (C record) until they are removed
or replaced in the EW-USER.txt. In addition we are
currently in discussion with flight software providers
to allow declarations to be made through their software.5. Can I upload declarations over a serial port?Most new computers do not have serial ports so the
microRecorder has been designed with this in mind.
The microRecorder does had a serial interface via the
RJ45 connector that will be used for serial uploads
from PDAs, however we are still in discussion with
software providers to finalize the protocol. In the
mean time, should you get to the airfield without the
ability to change the declaration over USB you can
always make a paper declaration.6. What update rates are supported?1 – 10 seconds.7. How much flight data can be stored on the microRecorder?This is dependant on the update rate. At 10secs: 300
hours. At 1sec: 30hours.8. Can the microRecorder act as a Barograph?Yes. The microRecorder contains a separate pressure
sensor and will record pressure height independently
of GPS fix.9. Does the microRecorder need an external GPS input?No. The microRecorder contains a 12 Channel SirfStar
II GPS receiver.10. Does the microRecorder have a Pilot Event Button?Yes. Pilot event is provided through the RJ45 connector
on the microRecorder. Pilot event will update at 1sec
intervals for 30secs.11. Does the EW microRecorder have an NMEA output?Yes. The EW microRecorder transmits NMEA sentences
(GGA, GSA, RMC, VTG) for connection to PDAs. Moving
map displays can be driven on PDAs running software
such as SeeYou mobile and Winpilot.12. Can I power my PDA from the MicroRecorder?Yes. The microRecorder has a 5V output (rated at 800mA)
for driving external devices. You can even charge your
PDA in flight using this output. Note: The microRecorder
must be connected to glider supply (9 Volts or higher)
for this function.13. How does the microRecorder Stop/Start recording?Pressing the switch will start and stop the microRecorder.
Alternatively connecting external power will start
the microRecorder automatically. If the external power
is removed the microRecorder will continue to run on
its internal battery until it detects that there has
been no movement for a user definable time.14. Will the microRecorder work if the glider supply
fails?Yes. The microRecorder is designed to run from external
glider supply or the internal battery. If an external
supply is present then the internal battery will be
charged. The internal battery will run the microRecorder
for 200hrs. Note: This value is under ideal satellite
conditions which allow the microRecorder to operate
in low power mode (which is normally the case with
an unobstructed view of the sky). The worst case scenario
is if the antenna is fully obstructed or disconnected.
The microRecorder stays in full power mode searching
for satellites, but will still provide 20hrs of operation.15. How do I charge the internal battery?The internal battery is charged when the microRecorder
is plugged into USB or glider supply. In addition an
EW microCharger can be provided for charging when a
computer is not available. In both cases the battery
will be fully charged from flat in approximately 8hrs.16. What are the dimensions/weight of the microRecorder?The microRecorder measures 115 x 85 x 25mm and weighs
280g.17. How can the microRecorder be mounted?The microRecorder is so small and light that Velcro
is suitable for mounting. We’ve had one stuck to the
side of a tug with two Velcro pads no problem. The
microRecorder can be mounted in any orientation. The
external antenna should be in clear view of the sky.18. Does the microRecorder log engine noise?Engine noise level recording is available as an option
and will be offered once ratified.19. Is the microRecorder available now?We have a number of Beta test versions in use at the
moment while we await FAI ratification. FAI approved
microRecorders will be available shortly.20. How much does a microRecorder cost?Current pricing for the microRecorder is £465 inc vat.
Engine noise level is an optional extra.If you have any other questions please email or call.Thanks,GrahamEW AvionicsAt 15:06 02 May 2006, Mark Hawkins wrote:>I've exchanged a couple of emails with them now and
>they may be able to>accept declarations through the serial port for the
>production units in>the few weeks. They're looking at various transfer
>formats and other>similar details to make sure things will work properly.
> More soon but>the replies with them have been VERY fast and the product
>sounds like>it will be VERY good.>>-Mark>>