Aluminum Paint & Inerior antenna?

[JOHN L. WOLFE]

Will the aluminum paint applied of a fabric plane preclude use of an
interior VHF antenna? Just a simple yes or no would be appreciated. JLW

[Ron Wanttaja]

On Wed, 03 May 2006 22:56:14 GMT, "JOHN L. WOLFE" >
wrote:

> Will the aluminum paint applied of a fabric plane preclude use of an
> interior VHF antenna? Just a simple yes or no would be appreciated. JLW

My Fly Baby is covered with the Stits process and has the antenna inside. Seems
to work fine. But then, it has a wood structure...won't work as well, inside a
steel tube fuselage.

Ron Wanttaja

[[email protected]]

RST Engineering wrote:
> OK. Yes or no.
>-------------------------------------------------

Ditto :-)

If you don't want to think about, don't do it. Mount the antenna on
the exterior of the airframe (attached to a good ground plane) and go
flying.

-R.S.Hoover

[[email protected]]

wrote:
> RST Engineering wrote:
> > OK. Yes or no.
> >-------------------------------------------------
>
> Ditto :-)
>
> If you don't want to think about, don't do it. Mount the antenna on
> the exterior of the airframe (attached to a good ground plane) and go
> flying.
>

Will the aluminum paint applied to a fabric plane make a good grond
plane
for an externally mounted antenna?

If the answer is clearly no, does that also answer the first question?

--

FF

[RST Engineering]

The question cannot be answered. The question was asked if this particular
aircraft with some "aluminum paint", whatever the hell that is, would be
affected. The question cannot be answered.

If the question was, "Does the standard UV dope that we use on fabric
aircraft impede the use of internal antennas?" I could have answered that in
the last thirty years I haven't had one reported case of the dope affecting
the use of internal antennas. I could have reported that the work I did for
Bellanca twenty-five years ago where we used a double coat of UV dope and
still got outstanding antenna performance is documented.

The original question cannot be answered. However, your question as to
whether UV dope would make a good ground plane CAN be answered. No, it will
not. It makes an absolutely lousy ground plane, no ground plane at all to
tell the truth. The aluminum particles are way too microscopic and too
widely dispersed in the dope to be an effective solid sheet of metal.


Jim


>
> Will the aluminum paint applied to a fabric plane make a good grond
> plane
> for an externally mounted antenna?

[[email protected]]

wrote:
>> Will the aluminum paint applied to a fabric plane make a good grond
> plane
> for an externally mounted antenna?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The general answer is 'no.'

You really need to look into this a bit deeper than yes/no or assuming
that a negative answer to one of your questions asserts a positive
answer to another.

The original role of powdered aluminum was two-fold, serving as a
light-weight filler material as well as a UV blocker. But the flakes
of aluminum do not necessarily form an electrically conductive
membrane. That depends upon the vehicle in which the powdered aluminum
is suspended and the thickness of its application. These reservations
also apply to RF energy, in that some 'aluminum paint' may block the
signal whereas a different brand or thinner coating may only result in
attenuating the signal by some degree.

--------------------------------------------------------------

As a general rule your best ground plane is a solid sheet of metal.
Lacking that, you can emulate a solid ground plane using radials made
of copper foil or wire. Although as few as four equally spaced radials
should give you a reliable signal, the more radials you have the closer
the system will come to the ideal.

-------------------------------------------------------------

There are metallic-based paints formulated specifically to serve as
electrical conductors and ground planes but if you are not familiar
with them your brusk insistance on yes or no answers to questions that
can not be answered so simplisticly guarantees you never will be.

-R.S.Hoover

[[email protected]]

wrote:
> wrote:
> >> Will the aluminum paint applied to a fabric plane make a good grond
> > plane
> > for an externally mounted antenna?
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ...but if you are not familiar
> with them your brusk insistance on yes or no answers to questions that
> can not be answered so simplisticly guarantees you never will be.
>

I made no such insistance, brusque or otherwise.

--

FF

[[email protected]]

wrote:

> I made no such insistance, brusque or otherwise.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Please accept my apology.

I can only see the current msg. Your reference to the original msg
caused me to believe you were the original author.

-R.S.Hoover

[Robert Bonomi]

In article . com>,
> wrote:
>
wrote:
>> RST Engineering wrote:
>> > OK. Yes or no.
>> >-------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Ditto :-)
>>
>> If you don't want to think about, don't do it. Mount the antenna on
>> the exterior of the airframe (attached to a good ground plane) and go
>> flying.
>>
>
>Will the aluminum paint applied to a fabric plane make a good grond
>plane
>for an externally mounted antenna?

"maybe", "possibly", "if", "sometimes"

>If the answer is clearly no, does that also answer the first question?

Nope.

[[email protected]]

wrote:
> wrote:
> ...
> I can only see the current msg. Your reference to the original msg
> caused me to believe you were the original author.
>

Thanks, and I concur with your opinion of the wording of the original
query.

--

FF

[Ernest Christley]

JOHN L. WOLFE wrote:
> Will the aluminum paint applied of a fabric plane preclude use of an
> interior VHF antenna? Just a simple yes or no would be appreciated. JLW
>
>

I'm not at the point of installing antennae yet, but hope to be in the
not to distant future. My question is how well would a large (50gal)
aluminum fuel tank serve as a ground plane.

The DykeDelta's fuel tank is about 45" wide and sits across the
longerons just behind the back seat. Using the front of the tank, which
forms a 'wall' behind the passengers head's, as the ground plane would
tend to concentrate the radiation pattern forward (yes/no?) My
reservation is do I really want a com antennae tip right behind my head.

--
This is by far the hardest lesson about freedom. It goes against
instinct, and morality, to just sit back and watch people make
mistakes. We want to help them, which means control them and their
decisions, but in doing so we actually hurt them (and ourselves)."

[RST Engineering]

The problem I see is that yes, the fuel tank will serve as a good ground
plane, but mounting the antenna this way will result in a horizontal
polarization of your signal. That is, the stuff that gets squirted out will
be vibrating to and fro rather than up and down. Everybody elses' radios
are expecting up and down and won't work too well with the to and fro.

How much is "too well"? That's why you stencil "experimental" on your
airframe. And no, I wouldn't put a ten watt transmitter into an antenna
close to and pointed at my head.

Jim



"Ernest Christley" > wrote in message
...
> JOHN L. WOLFE wrote:
>> Will the aluminum paint applied of a fabric plane preclude use of an
>> interior VHF antenna? Just a simple yes or no would be appreciated. JLW
>
> I'm not at the point of installing antennae yet, but hope to be in the not
> to distant future. My question is how well would a large (50gal) aluminum
> fuel tank serve as a ground plane.
>
> The DykeDelta's fuel tank is about 45" wide and sits across the longerons
> just behind the back seat. Using the front of the tank, which forms a
> 'wall' behind the passengers head's, as the ground plane would tend to
> concentrate the radiation pattern forward (yes/no?) My reservation is do
> I really want a com antennae tip right behind my head.
>
> --
> This is by far the hardest lesson about freedom. It goes against
> instinct, and morality, to just sit back and watch people make
> mistakes. We want to help them, which means control them and their
> decisions, but in doing so we actually hurt them (and ourselves)."

[Robert Bonomi]

In article >,
Ernest Christley > wrote:
>RST Engineering wrote:
>> The problem I see is that yes, the fuel tank will serve as a good ground
>> plane, but mounting the antenna this way will result in a horizontal
>> polarization of your signal. That is, the stuff that gets squirted out will
>> be vibrating to and fro rather than up and down. Everybody elses' radios
>> are expecting up and down and won't work too well with the to and fro.
>>
>
>Hmmm??
>Well there's an idea. If I mount the antennae to the BOTTOM of the fuel
>tank...
>
>Everybody else is expecting up and down, but I'll give them down and up.
> I generally get ATC commands all backwards anyways, so this would be a
>way to reverse them BEFORE they get to me...which when I get them
>backwards, it will actually be forwards. I'll still be a royal ****-up,
>but now no one will KNOW about it!

wouldn't reversing the antenna along the Z axis merely have the effect of
changing a ****-up to a ****-down, royal or otherwise?