Flight training, if you had to do it over...

[[email protected]]

Flight training duration vs best lessons frequency, pace and quality.

Need advice what is best for student pilot.
What is better, getting license fast, or to take your time, to enjoy
longer, to do it slower?
The situation.
Basic glider flight training on tow including 10 solo flights.
Flat terrain, no ridge, weather is no problem.
Student and instructor live near airfield.
There is no rush, time is no problem.

The questions
1. What is the best frequency of flying lessons, how many flights per
day, per week, per month?

4 flights per day?

4 flights per week?

How many flights would you recommend per day or per week and why?

2. Should full training including 10 solo flights be completed in 2
weeks, or 1, or 2, or 3 months, what is the best and the most enjoyable
for the student?

3. What is optimal training program on tow, minimum, average, maximum
number of dual flights before solo, what the release altitude should
be, what the duration of each flight should be etc?

4. Is there any program available for each flight-lesson for teaching
on tow from start to solo and beyond?

5. What is the best glider for teaching gliding on tow?

Andre

[Robert Hart]

wrote:
> The questions
> 1. What is the best frequency of flying lessons, how many flights per
> day, per week, per month?
>
> 4 flights per day?
>
> 4 flights per week?
>
> How many flights would you recommend per day or per week and why?

This will vary on a day by day basis with both the conditions and the
student. One of the hardest things an instructor has to learn is when a
student is about to hit 'overload'. At that point, not only does
learning stop but there is evidence that 'unlearning' starts.

So, the instructor should realise when a student appears to be in danger
of overload and wind things down at that point. It may only be necessary
to take a break (say for lunch) or it may need a longer time (eg
overnight) for a student to absorb what has already been taught and be
read for the next lesson (which is always going to include consolidation
of what has already been learned).

It has been my experience that people starting gliding 'from scratch'
generally progress best if they fly at least every two weeks. Less
frequent flying will generally result in much slower progress.


> 2. Should full training including 10 solo flights be completed in 2
> weeks, or 1, or 2, or 3 months, what is the best and the most enjoyable
> for the student?

This will vary with the student - let them make the choices (subject to
1 above). The instructor can help with this as they have experience of
many students, but the student should decide what is enjoyable!

> 3. What is optimal training program on tow, minimum, average, maximum
> number of dual flights before solo, what the release altitude should
> be, what the duration of each flight should be etc?

This will depend on the student and the conditions. It has been my
experience that no two students are alike and each processes the
training in their own way. Some learn quickly and others learn slowly -
but this appears to have no influence on their eventual abilities as a
pilot.

For those that learn quickly, one of my major concerns is that they have
developed sufficient 'airmanship' before they fly solo. People whose
learning takes longer have generally had more time to develop the
situational awareness that is the core of airmanship and will also have
been exposed to a wider range of conditions.

All flight training is competency based - it takes as long as it takes.

> 4. Is there any program available for each flight-lesson for teaching
> on tow from start to solo and beyond?

Well - here in Australia the instructor manual provides a model for the
teaching of "exercises" (ie parts of a flight or particular parts of
safety training such as spinning). Again however, these need to be
modified to 'tailor' them to the individual student.

> 5. What is the best glider for teaching gliding on tow?

There is a huge choice of suitable two seaters - the best one is
probably the one that is at the field closest to you!


--
Robert Hart
+61 (0)438 385 533 http://www.hart.wattle.id.au

[Udo Rumpf]

You must mean twice a week, with at least two flights a day.
That would represent a normal club weekend.
I hope that is the case.
Udo

> It has been my experience that people starting gliding 'from scratch'
> generally progress best if they fly at least every two weeks. Less
> frequent flying will generally result in much slower progress.

[[email protected]]

I am talking about maximizing pleasure of flying, maximizing what
student will get out of each flight, maximizing progress of student in
process of learning.
Does it make sense to give a student 4 flights in one day, or is it
better to have one lesson every 2-3 days? (airport operates every day
of the week)
Should the student be given 1-2 days time to digest each flight, think
about it, and analyze it?
When weather gets good again after 5 days of rain should this student
be allowed to make 3-4 flights in one day, or is it wasting of his
money because he does not have time to digest or analyze his
experiences, and his progress may suffer?
Based on our experience is it better for the student who loves flying
very much to do the course in 2 weeks time (5-7 flights a day), or is
it better to do the same course in 3 months ( 15 flights per month).
If you are 18, have limited money, just enough to prepay the course,
would you then fly intensely for 2 weeks or would you want to enjoy 3
months metered flying just to make it last longer. What is better for
the student?
What is the best frequency of flying lessons?
Andre

[Udo Rumpf]

Hi Andre.
I said 4 flights per weekend.
In any case I am not an expert on flight training.
38 year ago I received my private power ticket.
I just looked it up, it took two Month, well actually three,
we could not fly due to very bad January in the middle of a
Canadian Winter.
My glider endorsement took 12 flights and three weekends.
I spend a lot of time on the flight line that Summer. I observed,
the new Students could not get enough training flights.
(they wanted more then 2 flights a day). I also noted, that the students
that flew only once a day and came back a week later never quite
got it and fell by the way side in the end.

Udo

> wrote in message
oups.com...
>I am talking about maximizing pleasure of flying, maximizing what
> student will get out of each flight, maximizing progress of student in
> process of learning.
> Does it make sense to give a student 4 flights in one day, or is it
> better to have one lesson every 2-3 days? (airport operates every day
> of the week)
> Should the student be given 1-2 days time to digest each flight, think
> about it, and analyze it?
> When weather gets good again after 5 days of rain should this student
> be allowed to make 3-4 flights in one day, or is it wasting of his
> money because he does not have time to digest or analyze his
> experiences, and his progress may suffer?
> Based on our experience is it better for the student who loves flying
> very much to do the course in 2 weeks time (5-7 flights a day), or is
> it better to do the same course in 3 months ( 15 flights per month).
> If you are 18, have limited money, just enough to prepay the course,
> would you then fly intensely for 2 weeks or would you want to enjoy 3
> months metered flying just to make it last longer. What is better for
> the student?
> What is the best frequency of flying lessons?
> Andre
>

[Al]

> wrote in message
oups.com...
>I am talking about maximizing pleasure of flying, maximizing what
> student will get out of each flight, maximizing progress of student in
> process of learning.

Generally, quicker is better. Repetition improves retention. Rapid progress
is very motivating.


> Does it make sense to give a student 4 flights in one day, or is it
> better to have one lesson every 2-3 days? (airport operates every day
> of the week)
> Should the student be given 1-2 days time to digest each flight, think
> about it, and analyze it?

Yes, they should be given time to digest, and reflect. To imagine what they
would do differantly, next time. Judgement is better once you are on the
ground, hindsight is 20/20. This is very important, and is the primary
obstacle to "Quicker is better". How long? Depends on the student, and
their outside workload. 4 flights a day? Perhaps, with a quick student, long
days, nothing else going on, and simple flights. 2 might be closer to
optimum. 3 days between flights? Not if you can help it. 3 flights a week
minimum.

> When weather gets good again after 5 days of rain should this student
> be allowed to make 3-4 flights in one day, or is it wasting of his
> money because he does not have time to digest or analyze his
> experiences, and his progress may suffer?

Once again, depends on the student. In the review after each flight, you'll
get a good idea of the progress being made. As soon as you see errors being
repeated, give them a break.

> Based on our experience is it better for the student who loves flying
> very much to do the course in 2 weeks time (5-7 flights a day), or is
> it better to do the same course in 3 months ( 15 flights per month).

You've bracketed the productive range well.

> If you are 18, have limited money, just enough to prepay the course,
> would you then fly intensely for 2 weeks or would you want to enjoy 3
> months metered flying just to make it last longer. What is better for
> the student?
> What is the best frequency of flying lessons?
> Andre
>

When you fly a busy schedule, you use the things you have studied, and
this helps memory. The ability to recall all of the things you studied makes
the entire process less frustrating and more rewarding. You don't spend a
lot of time reviewing things covered earlier. These things all help
training, make it more rewarding and less expensive in the long run.

On the other hand, if the student has not had time to do the fully
prepare for the next flight, a delay could be beneficial. Before each
lesson, the instructor and student should know exactly where they are going,
and what they are going to do. They should have discussed what happend last
time they tried to do it, and what should be done differantly. If a new
task is being introduced, the student should have an idea, if not be able to
explain in detail, what he is going to try to do, how he will do it, and
what to expect.

Sleep is important. Your brain does some kind of processing/filing on
all of your recent experiences while you sleep. 4 very informative flights
per day may well be to much. I'll generally spot problems and fix them
quicker the next morning.


Al CFIAMI 2000+ hours of dual given.

[Robert Hart]

Udo Rumpf wrote:
> You must mean twice a week, with at least two flights a day.
> That would represent a normal club weekend. I hope that is the case.
> Udo
>
>> It has been my experience that people starting gliding 'from scratch'
>> generally progress best if they fly at least every two weeks. Less
>> frequent flying will generally result in much slower progress.
>

You misunderstood me. By going flying every two weeks I meant being at
the airfield every two weeks, which at our club means a sequence of
flights (possibly half a dozen - depends on where a student is 'at').

Certainly, most people will progress faster if they attend and fly more
frequently, but that is up to the student to decide: gliding needs to
fit into their life and I cannot make that choice for them.

--
Robert Hart
+61 (0)438 385 533 http://www.hart.wattle.id.au

[Private]

> wrote in message
ups.com...
snip
> The situation.
> Basic glider flight training on tow including 10 solo flights.

Clarification please.
Student has 10 solo flights?
or wants to train to level to perform 10 solo flights?

[[email protected]]

There is one student and one instructor.
The student took gliding theory course, than he prepaid whole practical
course which includes min. 30 dual flights on tow to 500m, than he has
to make 10 solo flighst on tow to complete training required to get 3
seagulls badge of glider pilot.

The conditions are perfect, 18 years old student has summer vacation,
student and instructor have unlimited time for each other,
Both live 5 minutes from airport , open every day, weather is good,
they have choice how often to fly.

Million-dollar question is: at what frequency student should fly for
BEST RESULTS and MOST PLEASURE.
(Since we do it only once in our life, should we make it last and do it
in 2 months, not in 10 days?)

They can do required 30+10 flights in 10 days, or they can do the same
thing in 3 months doing about 15 flights per month, that is one flight
every other day.

I am asking what is best for the student, what is the best frequency of
flying lessons.
Is it one flight every other day? One flight every day? two flights
every day? two flights every other day? four flights every day ??
Etc... What is best?

Another question. If there is a plateau in learning, how many days
break from flying do you recommend, or how to deal with that problem?

Andre

[Mike I Green]

Hi Andre,

Long time no see! I think it is a simple answer. It think it really
depends upon the student. One answer does not fit all students. If the
instructor knows the student, you might ask the instructor. You might
also get input from one of the students academic teachers, combine that
with some knowledge of the young man's coordination and motivation. My
guess is that if it is the "MOST PLEASURE", it will also be the "BEST
RESULTS". If you know him, what is your guess? If you love him, trust
your heart.

mg


wrote:
> There is one student and one instructor.
> The student took gliding theory course, than he prepaid whole practical
> course which includes min. 30 dual flights on tow to 500m, than he has
> to make 10 solo flighst on tow to complete training required to get 3
> seagulls badge of glider pilot.
>
> The conditions are perfect, 18 years old student has summer vacation,
> student and instructor have unlimited time for each other,
> Both live 5 minutes from airport , open every day, weather is good,
> they have choice how often to fly.
>
> Million-dollar question is: at what frequency student should fly for
> BEST RESULTS and MOST PLEASURE.
> (Since we do it only once in our life, should we make it last and do it
> in 2 months, not in 10 days?)
>
> They can do required 30+10 flights in 10 days, or they can do the same
> thing in 3 months doing about 15 flights per month, that is one flight
> every other day.
>
> I am asking what is best for the student, what is the best frequency of
> flying lessons.
> Is it one flight every other day? One flight every day? two flights
> every day? two flights every other day? four flights every day ??
> Etc... What is best?
>
> Another question. If there is a plateau in learning, how many days
> break from flying do you recommend, or how to deal with that problem?
>
> Andre
>

[Jack]

I think you are asking something that has so many variables that it
cannot be answered as simply as you would like. No two students, and no
two instructors are alike. My first instructor told me I would never
learn to fly, and to stop wasting my time and his. My next instructor
recognized my problem in 1 flight and soloed me 2 flights later. There
is just too much human nature involved with egos, mental practice,
actual desire to learn, etc. When I learned to fly, even an instructor
with a negative attitude and a huge ego problem couldn't stop me. I
wish I could have had a different guy to start with, but it was not to
be. The bond of trust between instructor and student is much more
important than the frequency of flights. The encouragement it fosters
is paramount to learning. I flew about once every 2 weeks, because
that's what I could afford at the time.

[Private]

> wrote in message
ups.com...
> There is one student and one instructor.
> The student took gliding theory course, than he prepaid whole practical
> course which includes min. 30 dual flights on tow to 500m, than he has
> to make 10 solo flighst on tow to complete training required to get 3
> seagulls badge of glider pilot.
>
> The conditions are perfect, 18 years old student has summer vacation,
> student and instructor have unlimited time for each other,
> Both live 5 minutes from airport , open every day, weather is good,
> they have choice how often to fly.
>
> Million-dollar question is: at what frequency student should fly for
> BEST RESULTS and MOST PLEASURE.
> (Since we do it only once in our life, should we make it last and do it
> in 2 months, not in 10 days?)
>
> They can do required 30+10 flights in 10 days, or they can do the same
> thing in 3 months doing about 15 flights per month, that is one flight
> every other day.
>
> I am asking what is best for the student, what is the best frequency of
> flying lessons.
> Is it one flight every other day? One flight every day? two flights
> every day? two flights every other day? four flights every day ??
> Etc... What is best?
>
> Another question. If there is a plateau in learning, how many days
> break from flying do you recommend, or how to deal with that problem?
>
> Andre

Your answer causes me to ask two more questions.

What type of aircraft (glider) will be used for training?

What type of soaring is done at this site and what are the probabilities of
long duration flights from a 1500 ft tow?

The calm of the morning or evening is often considered the best time for a
new pilot to train as both the tow and the landing will be much easier
without turbulence. However a 1500 ft sleigh ride at this time of day is
going to result in very short flights and will not provide much opportunity
for demonstration or practice of stick and rudder flying skills.

If this is a ridge soaring site then it is much easier to reliably expect
longer duration flights and I would suggest that the desirable training
frequency will depend most on timing the weather and the seasonal winds. I
think all here will agree that a student can learn more in a long soaring
flight than in a short sleigh ride.

Thermal flying usually takes place in the hotter part of the day and the
associated turbulence makes both towing and landing much harder and unless
this is a very exceptional site I would be surprised if long thermal
training flights are desirable or possible for a new student.

In any event this training schedule will only involve a total of 30+10 take
offs and landings, (at least some of which will be made by the instructor),
and could total as little as 5 hours of dual air time, and between 1-2 hrs
solo.

IMHO, the major problem with glider training is that the tows are relatively
expensive and this causes both flight time and each landing to be quite
costly. I found landing to be by far the hardest flying skill to master,
due in part to the fact that I was only making 1 or 2 per flying day. IMHO
it is easier and more cost effective to do early training and particularly
landing practice in a light power aircraft as they have the ability to
perform stop and go landings and at a small uncontrolled airport can provide
as many as 15 circuits in an hour. Most skills are most easily learned by
repetition and making several landings in a row allows the development of
the ability to recognize the proper landing attitude and sight picture. The
upper airwork is also better as the flight exercises and practice can be
extended to allow more practice of exercises usually accompanied by large
loss of altitude like stalls and slips and particularly spins. I suggest
that this early training is best done in a light taildragger with a stick
like a Cub or a Citabria as their flying and landing characteristics are
very similar to gliders.

I am not suggesting that all primary training should be done in a power
plane, only that there are great cost savings that can be realized by
beginning with a few hours of power practice before transitioning to
gliders. I am sure there are many other opinions here and hopefully they
will come forward. I would also suggest that you talk with the glider
instructor as it will be best to be working with his cooperation and
guidance.

Good luck, YMMV

[Tony Verhulst]

> I
> think all here will agree that a student can learn more in a long soaring
> flight than in a short sleigh ride.

Sort of. I think that a primary student learns more in four 15 minute
lessons than in one 1 hour lesson. I find that the airwork comes fairly
quickly, take off and tow less quickly, pattern and landing takes longer
still. My club does mostly 3K tows and when a student is close to solo,
we still tend to do a bunch of pattern tows - that HAS to be right.

Tony V.