Alcohol in Fuel

[Grumman-581]

I'm starting to notice a lot more pumps around these days with a
notice that they may contain up to 10% ethanol in the fuel mixture...
Of course, they kind of puts a crimp in my autogas STC for my plane,
but it got me to thinking if there might be a way to separate out the
alcohol from the fuel mixture... The bio-diesel folks mix alcohol and
lye with their veggie oil while they are making their fuel and then
'wash' the fuel later by adding water to it and either draining the
water and glycerin from the bottom or pump the bio-diesel off the
top... Could we do something like that with autogas? We wouldn't need
the lye part of it, but wouldn't the water mix with the alcohol and
settle to the bottom?

[Dave S]

Yes. It would settle.. and what remains will be a lower octane grade of
gasoline.

Sounds like a plan, but can get to be a pain with large quantities.

Dave


Grumman-581 wrote:
> I'm starting to notice a lot more pumps around these days with a
> notice that they may contain up to 10% ethanol in the fuel mixture...
> Of course, they kind of puts a crimp in my autogas STC for my plane,
> but it got me to thinking if there might be a way to separate out the
> alcohol from the fuel mixture... The bio-diesel folks mix alcohol and
> lye with their veggie oil while they are making their fuel and then
> 'wash' the fuel later by adding water to it and either draining the
> water and glycerin from the bottom or pump the bio-diesel off the
> top... Could we do something like that with autogas? We wouldn't need
> the lye part of it, but wouldn't the water mix with the alcohol and
> settle to the bottom?

[mike regish]

Would this violate the STC? I've been kind of wondering the same thing.

mike

"Dave S" > wrote in message
nk.net...
> Yes. It would settle.. and what remains will be a lower octane grade of
> gasoline.
>
> Sounds like a plan, but can get to be a pain with large quantities.
>
> Dave
>
>
> Grumman-581 wrote:
>> I'm starting to notice a lot more pumps around these days with a
>> notice that they may contain up to 10% ethanol in the fuel mixture...
>> Of course, they kind of puts a crimp in my autogas STC for my plane,
>> but it got me to thinking if there might be a way to separate out the
>> alcohol from the fuel mixture... The bio-diesel folks mix alcohol and
>> lye with their veggie oil while they are making their fuel and then
>> 'wash' the fuel later by adding water to it and either draining the
>> water and glycerin from the bottom or pump the bio-diesel off the
>> top... Could we do something like that with autogas? We wouldn't need
>> the lye part of it, but wouldn't the water mix with the alcohol and
>> settle to the bottom?

[Robert M. Gary]

I think you'd have to add something to the fuel to bring the octane
rating back up though. Perhaps going back to the early days of putting
Octant in the fuel.

-Robert

[Jim Macklin]

The legal issues with refining your own fuel, with the fire
department and EPA [fed and state] will make you not want to
become an amateur chemist. Easier to ask your local fuel
distributor to get you 300-1,000 gallons of the fuel you
want, you'll get a better price and not have to worry about
the fuel damaging the system, lye is very corrosive.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.


"Dave S" > wrote in message
nk.net...
| Yes. It would settle.. and what remains will be a lower
octane grade of
| gasoline.
|
| Sounds like a plan, but can get to be a pain with large
quantities.
|
| Dave
|
|
| Grumman-581 wrote:
| > I'm starting to notice a lot more pumps around these
days with a
| > notice that they may contain up to 10% ethanol in the
fuel mixture...
| > Of course, they kind of puts a crimp in my autogas STC
for my plane,
| > but it got me to thinking if there might be a way to
separate out the
| > alcohol from the fuel mixture... The bio-diesel folks
mix alcohol and
| > lye with their veggie oil while they are making their
fuel and then
| > 'wash' the fuel later by adding water to it and either
draining the
| > water and glycerin from the bottom or pump the
bio-diesel off the
| > top... Could we do something like that with autogas? We
wouldn't need
| > the lye part of it, but wouldn't the water mix with the
alcohol and
| > settle to the bottom?

[Grumman-581]

On Sat, 13 May 2006 12:02:40 -0500, "Jim Macklin"
> wrote:
> The legal issues with refining your own fuel, with the fire
> department and EPA [fed and state] will make you not want to
> become an amateur chemist. Easier to ask your local fuel
> distributor to get you 300-1,000 gallons of the fuel you
> want, you'll get a better price and not have to worry about
> the fuel damaging the system, lye is very corrosive.

I don't think that the lye would be necessary... Just mix water with
the gasoline... The water will settle out with the alcohol and the
gasoline will be on top...

[Montblack]

("Grumman-581" wrote)
> I don't think that the lye would be necessary... Just mix water with the
> gasoline... The water will settle out with the alcohol and the gasoline
> will be on top...


If you were to run lab tests on the remaining gasoline, what do you think
the final numbers would be?

Similar to what it was before the introductin of 10% Ethanol? Or do you
think the refineries compensate for the soon-to-be-blend by jacking up this,
or lowering that?


Montblack

[Ben Smith]

> I'm starting to notice a lot more pumps around these days with a
> notice that they may contain up to 10% ethanol in the fuel mixture...

Do you live anywhere near a fuel terminal? You probably can't buy gas
directly from them, but they might be able to tell you which filling
stations request non-ethanol blended fuel. Check the yellow pages for
Gasoline - Wholesale.

[nrp]

Don't try to remove the ethanol from the fuel, as the ethanol is used
to "finish" the refiner's base blend to raise it to the required octane
rating. You could try it for your lawn mower, but no way in an
airplane where the engine HAS to deliver power under all conditions.

[Jim Macklin]

True.

I just reading an article in Popular Mechanics [May 2006
issue] about ethanol based fuel. Said that it take 1.5
gallons to get same power as a gallon of gasoline. Listed
all kinds of problems. Was intended for car drivers, but
looked like good to know stuff fore every person who buys
fuel or votes.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P


"nrp" > wrote in message
oups.com...
| Don't try to remove the ethanol from the fuel, as the
ethanol is used
| to "finish" the refiner's base blend to raise it to the
required octane
| rating. You could try it for your lawn mower, but no way
in an
| airplane where the engine HAS to deliver power under all
conditions.
|