3D Solid State Gyro

[GeorgeC]

Can you point me to a tutorial on "3D Solid State gyroscope".

GeorgeC

[Thomas Borchert]

GeorgeC,

> Can you point me to a tutorial on "3D Solid State gyroscope".
>

I think what you really need is a tutorial on Google and Wikipedia.
Everything else will follow from there.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[J. Severyn]

"GeorgeC" > wrote in message
...
> Can you point me to a tutorial on "3D Solid State gyroscope".
>
> GeorgeC

Short FOG info is at:
http://www.nsd.es.northropgrumman.com/Html/FOG_Overview/index.htm

MEMS units:
http://www.omniinstruments.co.uk/gyro/gyro.html

Both are solid state units. FOG units will give lower drift, but are higher
in price than the MEMS units. There are also other basic designs and most
are tradeoffs between cost, environmental specs and performance. Google
will give you many more hits.

John Severyn
@KLVK

[Jim Macklin]

Google for "ring laser gyro" and pick from the returns,
146,000 pages available.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.


"GeorgeC" > wrote in message
...
| Can you point me to a tutorial on "3D Solid State
gyroscope".
|
| GeorgeC

[AES]

In article <v4Mbg.22377$ZW3.15074@dukeread04>,
"Jim Macklin" > wrote:

> Google for "ring laser gyro" and pick from the returns,
> 146,000 pages available.
>
>

Yes, except keep clear that "ring laser gyros" and "fiber optic gyros",
though they both use lasers and optics, and are truly wonderful examples
of modern science and technology, are fundamentally different beasts.

Ring laser gyros are the older technology, with Sperry and Honeywell as
major players in the field at least at one time. I believe they are
heavily used in military and airliner navigation systems, though I'm not
fully up to date on this

Fiber gyros (a k a fiber optic gyros or fiber laser gyros) are the newer
technology, with Litton and Northrup Grumman among the major players,
and are perhaps poised to take over from the ring laser gyro.

Amazing to see what MEMS can do also.

[Jim Macklin]

They all depend on frequency phase shift, it is the
principle, not the medium that determines the function.
With the light weight and low cost of a zero friction laser
gyro system, it should be possible to build a triple
redundant inertial navigation system, with GPS updating, for
very little money. It would also provide for flight control
and auto pilot and be economically viable because it could
be used for automotive, marine [including even bass boats]
as well as aviation. When you build millions of units, the
cost becomes affordable. As long as aviation builds systems
by the dozen, the cost will be way too high for general
acceptance.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.




"AES" > wrote in message
...
| In article <v4Mbg.22377$ZW3.15074@dukeread04>,
| "Jim Macklin" >
wrote:
|
| > Google for "ring laser gyro" and pick from the returns,
| > 146,000 pages available.
| >
| >
|
| Yes, except keep clear that "ring laser gyros" and "fiber
optic gyros",
| though they both use lasers and optics, and are truly
wonderful examples
| of modern science and technology, are fundamentally
different beasts.
|
| Ring laser gyros are the older technology, with Sperry and
Honeywell as
| major players in the field at least at one time. I believe
they are
| heavily used in military and airliner navigation systems,
though I'm not
| fully up to date on this
|
| Fiber gyros (a k a fiber optic gyros or fiber laser gyros)
are the newer
| technology, with Litton and Northrup Grumman among the
major players,
| and are perhaps poised to take over from the ring laser
gyro.
|
| Amazing to see what MEMS can do also.

[Bob Moore]

Jim Macklin wrote

> Google for "ring laser gyro" and pick from the returns,
> 146,000 pages available.

How come I get the impression that he wants information about
the small "hold in the palm of your hand" battery powered
units that I saw for sale at Sun n Fun...about $1500.

Bob Moore

[Matt Barrow]

"AES" > wrote in message
...
> Yes, except keep clear that "ring laser gyros" and "fiber optic gyros",
> though they both use lasers and optics, and are truly wonderful examples
> of modern science and technology, are fundamentally different beasts.
>
> Ring laser gyros are the older technology, with Sperry and Honeywell as
> major players in the field at least at one time. I believe they are
> heavily used in military and airliner navigation systems, though I'm not
> fully up to date on this
>
> Fiber gyros (a k a fiber optic gyros or fiber laser gyros) are the newer
> technology, with Litton and Northrup Grumman among the major players,
> and are perhaps poised to take over from the ring laser gyro.
>
> Amazing to see what MEMS can do also.

I would think that aviation is getting away from gyros in favor of ADAHRS.

How about these? http://www.xbow.com/Products/productsdetails.aspx?sid=30

[AES]

In article <hhNbg.22391$ZW3.1565@dukeread04>,
"Jim Macklin" > wrote:

> They all depend on frequency phase shift, it is the
> principle, not the medium that determines the function.

The ring in a ring laser gyro is an oscillating laser. The laser gain
medium is inside the ring. The ring itself is lasing independently in
the two opposite directions around the ring, so it's essentially two
lasers. The measured output signal is a *frequency* (the "beat
frequency" between these two lasers) and this beat frequency is (error
and "lock-up" effects aside) directly proportional to the rotation rate
of the gyro. The ring is a single loop ring: winding the ring around in
multiple loops would do no good -- would not increase the sensitivity or
scale factor of the device.

The ring in a fiber optical gyro has laser light traveling through it,
sent in from outside, but the ring is not itself a laser, and is not
lasing. The laser gain medium -- indeed the entire laser in the system
-- is outside the ring, and there is only one external laser in the
system which generates the light going in both directions around the
ring. The output signal is a (very small!!) phase shift (NOT a
frequency shift) between the optical phase delay in the two directions
around the ring, which is proportional to the rotation rate of the ring.
The ring is wound with many, many loops, and the sensitivity or scale
factor of the device goes up directly as the number of loops.

So, a lot of similar physics in the two devices, but they're still
distinctly different.

[GeorgeC]

You could have put it a little kinder, but thanks.

On Sat, 20 May 2006 23:26:51 +0200, Thomas Borchert
> wrote:

>GeorgeC,
>
>> Can you point me to a tutorial on "3D Solid State gyroscope".
>>
>
>I think what you really need is a tutorial on Google and Wikipedia.
>Everything else will follow from there.

GeorgeC

[GeorgeC]

Thanks, I did know why I didn't think of Google, I use for everything else.;-)

On Sat, 20 May 2006 14:37:08 -0700, "J. Severyn" >
wrote:

>
>"GeorgeC" > wrote in message
...
>> Can you point me to a tutorial on "3D Solid State gyroscope".
>>
>> GeorgeC
>
>Short FOG info is at:
>http://www.nsd.es.northropgrumman.com/Html/FOG_Overview/index.htm
>
>MEMS units:
>http://www.omniinstruments.co.uk/gyro/gyro.html
>
>Both are solid state units. FOG units will give lower drift, but are higher
>in price than the MEMS units. There are also other basic designs and most
>are tradeoffs between cost, environmental specs and performance. Google
>will give you many more hits.
>
>John Severyn
>@KLVK
>

GeorgeC

[GeorgeC]

You caught me. I was looking at an advertisement for a handheld and it peeked my
curiosity about solid state gyro's.

On Sat, 20 May 2006 23:29:57 GMT, Bob Moore > wrote:


>How come I get the impression that he wants information about
>the small "hold in the palm of your hand" battery powered
>units that I saw for sale at Sun n Fun...about $1500.
>
>Bob Moore

GeorgeC

[Thomas Borchert]

GeorgeC,

> You could have put it a little kinder, but thanks.
>

Sorry, it was late here ;-) Hope you found something - I did when I
tried.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Thomas Borchert]

GeorgeC,

> You caught me. I was looking at an advertisement for a handheld and it peeked my
> curiosity about solid state gyro's.
>

In that case, you're interested in the MEMS type also used by the G1000 and
Avidyne's Entegra.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Stubby]

Bob Moore wrote:
> Jim Macklin wrote
>
>> Google for "ring laser gyro" and pick from the returns,
>> 146,000 pages available.
>
> How come I get the impression that he wants information about
> the small "hold in the palm of your hand" battery powered
> units that I saw for sale at Sun n Fun...about $1500.

Don't some of those "gyros" actually use microelectronic-sized metal
beam with a "weight" on the end. Deflection is proportional to
acceleration. Integrate acceleration to get velocity. Again to get
position. You can do the same thing with rotation. I've always
wondered how accurate those little things are and how they react to heat.

IIRC Stanford University was experimenting with them on a DARPA contract
years back. They wanted to build a wing-leveler by using two such
devices, one on each wing tip.

[GeorgeC]

I did Goggle "Solid State Gyroscope", per your suggestion. All I got were
product description and application suggestion. Next, I'm going to Goggle on
some of the leads I got from the first search.

On Sun, 21 May 2006 10:01:07 +0200, Thomas Borchert
> wrote:

GeorgeC

[Morgans]

"GeorgeC" > wrote in message
...
>I did Goggle "Solid State Gyroscope", per your suggestion. All I got were
> product description and application suggestion. Next, I'm going to Goggle
> on
> some of the leads I got from the first search.

Also, try piezo electric gyro. They are much lower Tec, drift quite a lot,
and need something to adjust for drift, frequently.
--
Jim in NC

[Neil Gould]

Recently, GeorgeC > posted:

> I did Goggle "Solid State Gyroscope", per your suggestion. All I got
> were product description and application suggestion. Next, I'm going
> to Goggle on some of the leads I got from the first search.
>
Your question got me interested in the subject, so I did a search on the
U.S. Patent & Trademark website for "Fiber Optic Gyroscope" which resulted
in this, among other hits:

http://www.uspto.gov/web/patents/patog/week04/OG/html/1302-4/US06990269-20060124.html

I still don't quite understand the "no moving parts" claim from the
manufacturers.

Regards,

Neil

[Morgans]

"Neil Gould" > wrote

> I still don't quite understand the "no moving parts" claim from the
> manufacturers.

So what is moving? Light? That does not qualify as a part, IMHO.
--
Jim in NC

[Al]

The you've already seen:
http://www.appareo.com/index.php

Al


"GeorgeC" > wrote in message
...
> You caught me. I was looking at an advertisement for a handheld and it
> peeked my
> curiosity about solid state gyro's.
>
> On Sat, 20 May 2006 23:29:57 GMT, Bob Moore >
> wrote:
>
>
>>How come I get the impression that he wants information about
>>the small "hold in the palm of your hand" battery powered
>>units that I saw for sale at Sun n Fun...about $1500.
>>
>>Bob Moore
>
> GeorgeC

[Neil Gould]

Recently, Morgans > posted:

> "Neil Gould" > wrote
>
>> I still don't quite understand the "no moving parts" claim from the
>> manufacturers.
>
> So what is moving? Light? That does not qualify as a part, IMHO.
>
I said I *don't understand* that aspect of the design at this point, so I
have no basis to confirm or dispute that there are no moving parts.

The patent app that I referenced is quite vague about how "...the angular
velocity applied to the fiber optic coil about the axis thereof..." would
result in any phase shift if the length of the light path is unchanged by
virtue of the light source and coil being fixed in relation to one another
("solid state"). OTOH, if the device works based on a change in position
between the light source and the coil due to an angular velocity, then it
has moving parts, and the light interference pattern simply measures the
amount of movement.

So, if you *do* understand how it works without moving parts, I would
appreciate a clearer explanation.

Neil

[Stefan]

Neil Gould schrieb:

> I said I *don't understand* that aspect of the design

Don't feel bad about it: Understanding a Fiber Optic Gyroscope is pretty
involved.

As an (incorrect!) starting point, you could think like this: You send a
light flash in both directions through the ring. The light needs some
time to travel through the fiber. If you turn, you will have changed
your position until you receive the light again, so that the light in
one direction has to travel more than 360 degrees, while in the other
direction the path is shorter than 360 degrees. Tiny as the difference
is, you can measure that.

As I said, this approach is *not* correct, but it may help you to
understand how such a thing *might* work. However, you can not
understand the Fiber Optic Gyroscope without understanding the theory of
relativity. So a reasonable approach for a non-physisict is to just
believe that it works.

Stefan