PDA: Which one and what software?

[[email protected]]

Hello, I am a private pilot aspiring to move up the rating and get my
CFI.

I am in the market for a PDA to help organize my life, dates, phone
numbers, addresses, emails, and also double as a electronic flight
computer and sort of a electronic flight bag type of thing.

My laptop is a Powerbook Mac and my desktop is a PC.

Should I go with a Palm pPilot (OS) or a Pocket PC? And which have
better software for aviation?

Sorry for the basic questions, but I am a total newbie when it comes to
PDA's.

[[email protected]]

Please excuse the bad grammar, I couldn't find the edit button and
didn't proof read.

[Thomas Borchert]

> Sorry for the basic questions, but I am a total newbie when it comes to
> PDA's.
>

Actually, there's not that much choice in nav software for the Palm. Much
more is available for the PocketPC, which, OTOH, doesn't work well with
your Mac. Personally, I'd go for display size, so you'd want a 480 by 640
resolution. Have a look at Anywhere Map by Controlvision, the "Mercedes"
of PDA nav software. If you want low cost, look at www.pocketfms.com.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Frode Berg]

"Thomas Borchert"

>> Sorry for the basic questions, but I am a total newbie when it comes to
>> PDA's.
>>
>
> Actually, there's not that much choice in nav software for the Palm. Much
> more is available for the PocketPC, which, OTOH, doesn't work well with
> your Mac. Personally, I'd go for display size, so you'd want a 480 by 640
> resolution. Have a look at Anywhere Map by Controlvision, the "Mercedes"
> of PDA nav software. If you want low cost, look at www.pocketfms.com.
>
> --

Also, check out the Niborex Copilot software.
Basically, and electronic checklist capable of holding whatever graphic and
text files you want in addition to your customisable checklists.

I just started using it, so far anly on 4 flights, but it seams mighty
powerful!

It has flight timer, manages your fuel tanks, holds all your performance
data etc.

When I bought it, they had a bundle deal with their E6B software.
Also a good product it seams.

PocketFMS is great! Great community, frequent updates, and world wide
coverage.

I would go with that instead of the costly ones with costly NAV update
subscriptions.

Youre requeired to fly with paper charts on board anyway, so why chuck the
money out.

I also have Jeppesen Flightstar, and it's a bit easier to make routes on,
but it isn't a PDA programme, and costs an arm and a leg to keep current....

:-)

Frode

[Thomas Borchert]

Frode,

> PocketFMS is great! Great community, frequent updates, and world wide
> coverage.
>

Problem is, the future of PocketFMS is somewhat uncertain when the free
DAFIF data goes away in the fall.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Newps]

wrote:
> Hello, I am a private pilot aspiring to move up the rating and get my
> CFI.
>
> I am in the market for a PDA to help organize my life, dates, phone
> numbers, addresses, emails, and also double as a electronic flight
> computer and sort of a electronic flight bag type of thing.
>
> My laptop is a Powerbook Mac and my desktop is a PC.
>
> Should I go with a Palm pPilot (OS) or a Pocket PC? And which have
> better software for aviation?
>
> Sorry for the basic questions, but I am a total newbie when it comes to
> PDA's.

First let me state that with what you will spend on the PDA and stuff
for flying you'd be better off getting a Garmin 295. You can get them
for $500 pretty much every day. But if you just got to get the PDA:
You want one with bluetooth. Then get a bluetooth GPS. I've got the
Altina GBT708. Got it off ebay for about $75. For flying purposes
spending more on a GPS really gets you nothing more in usefulness or
accuracy. I have a Dell Axim X51v, I've also used the X50v and the
X50 mid, they all work great, no difference between them. For software
I've tried most of them. Anywheremap is OK but breaks my basic rule
with any PDA software, never buy something you don't get a free trial
on. My favorite is NavGPS Pro. They all work, the difference is what
the interface looks like. To me NavGPS is far better than all of them.
For flight planning you can't beat WingX from Hilton software.
The main problems you have with a PDA is the screen can get washed
out in bright sun and you really gotta have it plugged in to the lighter
otherwise the battery gets sucked down too fast. My Dell also has
wireless so the WingX program will go online and get the weather as well
as the usual email and surfing. Another weather program I like for the
Dell is called Radar Watch 2. It's the best radar display I've found
for the PDA. Loads fast and loops radar.

[Wiz]

A good resource for evaluating handheld aviation software, both for
Palm and various PocketPCs, is www.palmflying.com.

I have used the excellent shareware CoPilot, and there is now a moving
map that works with it and is pretty inexpensive, which I believe is
called FlightMaster. You can check them out on the site above.

Cheers,
Wiz

[[email protected]]

Thanks for all the replys.

At the present time I am only looking for a PDA. I have a GPS, it is
the Garmin 195 and while outdated by todays standards, works great for
my needs.

I was looking on Sportys and they have the Dell Axim X51 bundled with
the WingX Pro for 359.00.

I think while I have a Mac as a laptop, it looks like there are more
options for software with a PC based PDA, and my desktop is a PC.

[[email protected]]

Also, being the newbie I am, if I am reading the posts right the PDA
can also be used as a GPS, and radar scope (with the proper software)?

How does that work, how are they able to read the satelites for GPS and
echos for weather? And are those things a subscription based thing?

[Frode Berg]

Hi!

Does Radar Watch include Europe radar, or is it US only?

Frode


"Newps" > skrev i melding
. ..
>
>
> wrote:
>> Hello, I am a private pilot aspiring to move up the rating and get my
>> CFI.
>>
>> I am in the market for a PDA to help organize my life, dates, phone
>> numbers, addresses, emails, and also double as a electronic flight
>> computer and sort of a electronic flight bag type of thing.
>>
>> My laptop is a Powerbook Mac and my desktop is a PC.
>>
>> Should I go with a Palm pPilot (OS) or a Pocket PC? And which have
>> better software for aviation?
>>
>> Sorry for the basic questions, but I am a total newbie when it comes to
>> PDA's.
>
> First let me state that with what you will spend on the PDA and stuff for
> flying you'd be better off getting a Garmin 295. You can get them for
> $500 pretty much every day. But if you just got to get the PDA:
> You want one with bluetooth. Then get a bluetooth GPS. I've got the
> Altina GBT708. Got it off ebay for about $75. For flying purposes
> spending more on a GPS really gets you nothing more in usefulness or
> accuracy. I have a Dell Axim X51v, I've also used the X50v and the X50
> mid, they all work great, no difference between them. For software I've
> tried most of them. Anywheremap is OK but breaks my basic rule with any
> PDA software, never buy something you don't get a free trial on. My
> favorite is NavGPS Pro. They all work, the difference is what the
> interface looks like. To me NavGPS is far better than all of them. For
> flight planning you can't beat WingX from Hilton software.
> The main problems you have with a PDA is the screen can get washed out
> in bright sun and you really gotta have it plugged in to the lighter
> otherwise the battery gets sucked down too fast. My Dell also has
> wireless so the WingX program will go online and get the weather as well
> as the usual email and surfing. Another weather program I like for the
> Dell is called Radar Watch 2. It's the best radar display I've found for
> the PDA. Loads fast and loops radar.

[Casey Wilson]

> wrote in message
ups.com...
> Hello, I am a private pilot aspiring to move up the rating and get my
> CFI.
>
> I am in the market for a PDA to help organize my life, dates, phone
> numbers, addresses, emails, and also double as a electronic flight
> computer and sort of a electronic flight bag type of thing.
>
> My laptop is a Powerbook Mac and my desktop is a PC.
>
> Should I go with a Palm pPilot (OS) or a Pocket PC? And which have
> better software for aviation?
>
> Sorry for the basic questions, but I am a total newbie when it comes to
> PDA's.

I have a PalmPilot and it does everything I need it to do. As a VFR
pilot, I don't have time in the cockpit to play with any of the toys,
including the PalmPilot. Even with 'George' flying I have too much to do.
Harking back to my brief stint as an instrument student, the aviating tasks
were even more demanding. Add a few bumps enroute while I'm trying to write
something on the graffiti panel and I think I'd probably toss it over my
shoulder into the baggage compartment.
I guess my point is, I don't see any utility to having an electronic
flight computer/flight bag loaded onto a PDA. I do my flight planning on my
HP notebook on the ground before I leave. Anything the GPS won't tell me in
flight, I can figure out rather quickly with pencil on paper and a couple
spins of my whiz-wheel. Just to stay sharp, I sometimes [HORRORS!!] switch
the GPS off.
Small screens, tiny buttons, graffiti panels.... Just doesn't work for
me.

Go Fly!

Casey

[A Lieberman]

On Sun, 21 May 2006 16:58:17 GMT, Casey Wilson wrote:

> Small screens, tiny buttons, graffiti panels.... Just doesn't work for
> me.

Amen Casey!!!

While I am a "bells and whistles" kinda person, I still use plain ole pen
and paper for writing frequencies, use the ole paper enroute maps, and
still do follow my progress via VOR radials compared to the paper map just
to keep my mind active enroute. No hand held batteries needed.

While my Garmin 430 has a checklists, timers for fuel and the like, I still
use my home created checklist, write down the time to change tanks on paper
on kneeboard and so on. Still no batteries required.

Still have velcro wrapped pens attached to velcro strips on my knee board.
Using Velcro in flight is one of the best inventions since sliced bread :-)

The only reason I tote my PDA along is for the hopes of wireless access in
the FBO when I arrive :-) as there are some FBO's that have different
flight briefing services that I don't like.

Allen

[Newps]

Casey Wilson wrote:

>
>
> I have a PalmPilot and it does everything I need it to do. As a VFR
> pilot, I don't have time in the cockpit to play with any of the toys,
> including the PalmPilot. Even with 'George' flying I have too much to do.

Then you're doing something wrong. On long cross countries I pretty
much sit there, and I don't have an autopilot.



> Small screens, tiny buttons, graffiti panels.... Just doesn't work for
> me.

The PDA screen is the biggest screen I have in the plane, buttons are
about the same size as the panel mount GPS and graffiti panels are the
bane of Palm.

[John T]

"Frode Berg" > wrote in message

>
> Youre requeired to fly with paper charts on board anyway, so why
> chuck the money out.

Who requires you to fly with paper charts on board?

--
John T
http://sage1solutions.com/TknoFlyer
Reduce spam. Use Sender Policy Framework: http://spf.pobox.com
____________________

[Casey Wilson]

"Newps" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Casey Wilson wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> I have a PalmPilot and it does everything I need it to do. As a VFR
>> pilot, I don't have time in the cockpit to play with any of the toys,
>> including the PalmPilot. Even with 'George' flying I have too much to do.
>
> Then you're doing something wrong. On long cross countries I pretty much
> sit there, and I don't have an autopilot.
>
I know better than that, Newps.
While you are "pretty much sitting there" you are glancing at the
instruments, albeit now and then, scanning outside the cockpit for other
aircraft (especially the ones your pals in flight following happen to
mention), leveling the wings, kicking the nose over to get back on course,
bumping the nose up or down to zero the VSI, admiring the river twisting and
turning, fiddling with the red knob to lean or richen the engine a bit
better, noting the time for passage over a waypoint, comparing ground speed
to airspeed, noting elapsed time against fuel consumption, changing the CD,
snacking on a sandwich or cookie or unwrapping a Snickers, not to mention
being sociable to the passengers, if any....

[Frode Berg]

nobody really.

I just always figured it's a good idea to have the charts on board in case
that fancy piece of computer equipment goes blank on me...

:-)

Frode


"John T" > skrev i melding
m...
> "Frode Berg" > wrote in message
>
>>
>> Youre requeired to fly with paper charts on board anyway, so why
>> chuck the money out.
>
> Who requires you to fly with paper charts on board?
>
> --
> John T
> http://sage1solutions.com/TknoFlyer
> Reduce spam. Use Sender Policy Framework: http://spf.pobox.com
> ____________________
>
>

[Chris W]

wrote:

> I am in the market for a PDA to help organize my life, dates, phone
> numbers, addresses, emails, and also double as a electronic flight
> computer and sort of a electronic flight bag type of thing.

Has anyone here tired the Garmin iQue 3600a? It has built in GPS and a
little cradle to mount in the plane that gives larger and more buttons
which I am guessing reduces or eliminates the need for the graffiti pen
entry system. It is Palm OS I think. I haven't read much about it but
being a palm fan it looks like it would be pretty nice. They want a lot
of money for it though, about $1,000 I think.

--
Chris W
KE5GIX

Gift Giving Made Easy
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give the gifts they want
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from anywhere, for any occasion!
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[Thomas Borchert]

Newps,

> you'd be better off getting a Garmin 295. You can get them
> for $500 pretty much every day.
>

Actually, for that money, you want a brand-new Lowrance Airmap 600c
with a fast processor, high resolution and 16-channels, not an ancient
295. It's called progress ;-)

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, said:
>I am in the market for a PDA to help organize my life, dates, phone
>numbers, addresses, emails, and also double as a electronic flight
>computer and sort of a electronic flight bag type of thing.
>
>My laptop is a Powerbook Mac and my desktop is a PC.
>
>Should I go with a Palm pPilot (OS) or a Pocket PC? And which have
>better software for aviation?

I've been using Palm PDAs for a long time. They work well with Mac OS,
Linux, and I'm told they even work with Windows although I'm fortunate
enough to have never tried. I use CoPilot (see my web site
http://xcski.com/~ptomblin/CoPilot for details) as an important part for
my flight planning - I put the flight plan into it so that I can enter the
winds and have an accurate ETE, as well as being able to do the w&b and
just read the flight plan (in either US, Canadian or ICAO formats) off the
screen.

Up until Saturday when somebody tried to teach me how to ride a
motorcycle, I used a Palm Treo as my phone and PDA, and it was great to be
able to use it to check weather and see radar pictures and satellite maps
when I wasn't at home. I'm hoping my insurance covers a smashed and
slightly blood covered Treo because I really missed it on the flight home.


--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
It's not 'I don't do Windows', it's 'I know nothing about Windows,
and it generally explodes when I get near it'.
-- Matt McLeod

[Jon]

I am using co-pilot for flight planning. Navaid.com to get waypoint updates.
I am using Flightmaster (www.flight-master.com) for gps software on my Treo
650. The 2 work together very nicely.Works very nice. Moving map, HSI, lots
of neat features.

-Jonathan

"Paul Tomblin" > wrote in message
...
> In a previous article, said:
>>I am in the market for a PDA to help organize my life, dates, phone
>>numbers, addresses, emails, and also double as a electronic flight
>>computer and sort of a electronic flight bag type of thing.
>>
>>My laptop is a Powerbook Mac and my desktop is a PC.
>>
>>Should I go with a Palm pPilot (OS) or a Pocket PC? And which have
>>better software for aviation?
>
> I've been using Palm PDAs for a long time. They work well with Mac OS,
> Linux, and I'm told they even work with Windows although I'm fortunate
> enough to have never tried. I use CoPilot (see my web site
> http://xcski.com/~ptomblin/CoPilot for details) as an important part for
> my flight planning - I put the flight plan into it so that I can enter the
> winds and have an accurate ETE, as well as being able to do the w&b and
> just read the flight plan (in either US, Canadian or ICAO formats) off the
> screen.
>
> Up until Saturday when somebody tried to teach me how to ride a
> motorcycle, I used a Palm Treo as my phone and PDA, and it was great to be
> able to use it to check weather and see radar pictures and satellite maps
> when I wasn't at home. I'm hoping my insurance covers a smashed and
> slightly blood covered Treo because I really missed it on the flight home.
>
>
> --
> Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
> It's not 'I don't do Windows', it's 'I know nothing about Windows,
> and it generally explodes when I get near it'.
> -- Matt McLeod

[Thomas Borchert]

Newps,

> Then you're doing something wrong. On long cross countries I pretty
> much sit there, and I don't have an autopilot.
>

Concur.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Morgans]

"Thomas Borchert" > wrote

> Actually, for that money, you want a brand-new Lowrance Airmap 600c
> with a fast processor, high resolution and 16-channels, not an ancient
> 295. It's called progress ;-)

As long as you feel comfortable that Lowrance is not going to declare it
obsolete, and stop all support, (making it a paperweight) then that may be
true. I have a long memory, when it comes to things like that.
--
Jim in NC

[Morgans]

"Paul Tomblin" > wrote

> Up until Saturday when somebody tried to teach me how to ride a
> motorcycle, I used a Palm Treo as my phone and PDA, and it was great to be
> able to use it to check weather and see radar pictures and satellite maps
> when I wasn't at home. I'm hoping my insurance covers a smashed and
> slightly blood covered Treo because I really missed it on the flight home.

Ouch! What was it that tripped you up, riding the motorcycle? To me, it
seems like ridding a bicycle.

I hope you do get some insurance coverage on your Trio. Those things are
not cheap, if I recall correctly!
--
Jim in NC

[[email protected]]

My main purpose for the PDA is as a replacement to my hand address book
and also double as a flight planner,check-lists, emergency procedures,
etc. Not too interested in Nav. software, as I have a Garmin 195 with
a up-to-date database and serves my GPS needs.

One requirement though is the ability to plan my route and download it
to my Garmin 195

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, "Morgans" > said:
>"Paul Tomblin" > wrote
>> Up until Saturday when somebody tried to teach me how to ride a
>> motorcycle, I used a Palm Treo as my phone and PDA, and it was great to be
>> able to use it to check weather and see radar pictures and satellite maps
>> when I wasn't at home. I'm hoping my insurance covers a smashed and
>> slightly blood covered Treo because I really missed it on the flight home.
>
>Ouch! What was it that tripped you up, riding the motorcycle? To me, it
>seems like ridding a bicycle.

Switching to second, I don't think I released the throttle before I let
out the clutch. So I was going fast enough to hurt when it popped up and
I fell over.

>I hope you do get some insurance coverage on your Trio. Those things are
>not cheap, if I recall correctly!

It was $500 *with* a two year committment. The insurance company says
they'll replace it, but they're also cancelling my policy. So I think I'm
going to buy an Innopocket Aluminium Hard Case (as seen on
http://www.pdasmart.com/pdaphonetreo.htm).

--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
....the default behaviour should be *not* to **** up.
-- adb

[Thomas Borchert]

Morgans,

> I have a long memory, when it comes to things like that.
>

Then I guess you remember Garmin doing the same thing.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Steve Foley]

Does the treo also function as the GPS, or do you need to add a card to it?




"Jon" > wrote in message
. ..
> I am using co-pilot for flight planning. Navaid.com to get waypoint
updates.
> I am using Flightmaster (www.flight-master.com) for gps software on my
Treo
> 650. The 2 work together very nicely.Works very nice. Moving map, HSI,
lots
> of neat features.
>
> -Jonathan
>
> "Paul Tomblin" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In a previous article, said:
> >>I am in the market for a PDA to help organize my life, dates, phone
> >>numbers, addresses, emails, and also double as a electronic flight
> >>computer and sort of a electronic flight bag type of thing.
> >>
> >>My laptop is a Powerbook Mac and my desktop is a PC.
> >>
> >>Should I go with a Palm pPilot (OS) or a Pocket PC? And which have
> >>better software for aviation?
> >
> > I've been using Palm PDAs for a long time. They work well with Mac OS,
> > Linux, and I'm told they even work with Windows although I'm fortunate
> > enough to have never tried. I use CoPilot (see my web site
> > http://xcski.com/~ptomblin/CoPilot for details) as an important part for
> > my flight planning - I put the flight plan into it so that I can enter
the
> > winds and have an accurate ETE, as well as being able to do the w&b and
> > just read the flight plan (in either US, Canadian or ICAO formats) off
the
> > screen.
> >
> > Up until Saturday when somebody tried to teach me how to ride a
> > motorcycle, I used a Palm Treo as my phone and PDA, and it was great to
be
> > able to use it to check weather and see radar pictures and satellite
maps
> > when I wasn't at home. I'm hoping my insurance covers a smashed and
> > slightly blood covered Treo because I really missed it on the flight
home.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
> > It's not 'I don't do Windows', it's 'I know nothing about Windows,
> > and it generally explodes when I get near it'.
> > -- Matt McLeod
>
>

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, "Steve Foley" > said:
>Does the treo also function as the GPS, or do you need to add a card to it?

The Treo 650 doesn't have a GPS. I have a Garmin 296 for use in the plane -
like I said, I mostly use CoPilot for planning and filing purposes. I'm
tempted to get a bluetooth GPS and FlightMaster as a backup, but I think
the Treo would be more suited for GeoCaching than flying.


--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
Not that I'm annoyed at this particular bit of recto-plasmic sputum which
has crawled up from the depths of product mis-management to haunt me. Not
at all. -- Simon Burr

[Newps]

A PDA makes a poor substitute for a laminated checklist, especially for
an emergency.




wrote:
> My main purpose for the PDA is as a replacement to my hand address book
> and also double as a flight planner,check-lists, emergency procedures,
> etc. Not too interested in Nav. software, as I have a Garmin 195 with
> a up-to-date database and serves my GPS needs.
>
> One requirement though is the ability to plan my route and download it
> to my Garmin 195
>

[Newps]

Thomas Borchert wrote:

> Morgans,
>
>
>>I have a long memory, when it comes to things like that.
>>
>
>
> Then I guess you remember Garmin doing the same thing.



With their GPS 90, everything newer than that is still supported.

[Thomas Borchert]

Newps,

> With their GPS 90, everything newer than that is still supported.
>

Same generation as the Airmap 100.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Steve Foley]

"Paul Tomblin" > wrote in message
...
> In a previous article, "Steve Foley" > said:
> >Does the treo also function as the GPS, or do you need to add a card to
it?
>
> The Treo 650 doesn't have a GPS. I have a Garmin 296 for use in the
plane -
> like I said, I mostly use CoPilot for planning and filing purposes. I'm
> tempted to get a bluetooth GPS and FlightMaster as a backup, but I think
> the Treo would be more suited for GeoCaching than flying.

The last 2 phones I've gotten claim they have some kind of built-in GPS for
emergency purposes. (Both Motorola phones) I'm sure someone with more
knowledge than me could write some Java stuff to read these values. I had
hoped the Treo had the same technology.

I'm sick of a palm in one pocket, and a phone in the other, so I may pick up
a used Treo. I've seen the 600 selling for around $150 (USD). I don't want
the data capabilities, but I've heard that no matter what I do to it, It
will keep phoning home (to Verizon) and using 'data', so I may need to pay
$20 a month extra. I don't want that.

[Newps]

Steve Foley wrote:

>
> I'm sick of a palm in one pocket, and a phone in the other, so I may pick up
> a used Treo. I've seen the 600 selling for around $150 (USD). I don't want
> the data capabilities, but I've heard that no matter what I do to it, It
> will keep phoning home (to Verizon) and using 'data', so I may need to pay
> $20 a month extra. I don't want that.
>

You heard wrong. It does not keep phoning home to Verizon, whatever
that means. I have a 600 with the 10 MB data plan. You can keep track
of your data usage online at the Verizon site. There's no mysterious
data usage there. With no data plan the only data you could send would
be text and picture messages. I would not reccomend the 600 for two
reasons. The screen resolution is bad, 160x160. The 650 is 320x320 and
is really nice looking. The 600 does not have a user replaceable
battery. Verizon has already replaced my 600 because the battery
failed. My next phone will be the xv6700.

[Peter Duniho]

"Steve Foley" > wrote in message
news:0hGcg.3551$J95.2173@trndny05...
> The last 2 phones I've gotten claim they have some kind of built-in GPS
> for
> emergency purposes. (Both Motorola phones) I'm sure someone with more
> knowledge than me could write some Java stuff to read these values. I had
> hoped the Treo had the same technology.

It depends on your carrier, but it's quite likely you can't access the GPS
info directly. The phone companies have a revenue model to protect, and
that generally involves not allowing the customer to have control of their
phone. This includes not allowing access to any GPS hardware that might be
present, at least not without paying the phone company their pound of flesh.

This attitude of theirs is one reason I don't have a mobile phone. I don't
like doing business with people who engage in slimy tactics like that.
Granted, most people don't pay full-price for their phone and in doing so,
they essentially agree to buy enough services from the subsidizer to make it
worth it (which is fair), but for someone who does, they should be granted
complete access to the hardware.

Pete

[Steve Foley]

"Newps" > wrote in message
...

> You heard wrong.

Looking again, it appears these were all old complaints. I did find
somewhere that Verizon requires a data plan with a PDA/phone. Still not sure
if that's true or not. The complaints stated that they were told one shing
by the sales rep, and another by the support folk.

Thanks for the heads-up on the battery though.

160 x 160 wouldn't bother me. That's what my Zire 31 is.

> It does not keep phoning home to Verizon, whatever
> that means. I have a 600 with the 10 MB data plan. You can keep track
> of your data usage online at the Verizon site. There's no mysterious
> data usage there. With no data plan the only data you could send would
> be text and picture messages. I would not reccomend the 600 for two
> reasons. The screen resolution is bad, 160x160. The 650 is 320x320 and
> is really nice looking. The 600 does not have a user replaceable
> battery. Verizon has already replaced my 600 because the battery
> failed. My next phone will be the xv6700.

[Newps]

Peter Duniho wrote:


> This attitude of theirs is one reason I don't have a mobile phone. I don't
> like doing business with people who engage in slimy tactics like that.
> Granted, most people don't pay full-price for their phone and in doing so,
> they essentially agree to buy enough services from the subsidizer to make it
> worth it (which is fair), but for someone who does, they should be granted
> complete access to the hardware.



Then buy an unlocked phone. Can't speak for the other technologies but
they are readily available for the CDMA crowd.

[Newps]

Steve Foley wrote:

> "Newps" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>
>>You heard wrong.
>
>
> Looking again, it appears these were all old complaints. I did find
> somewhere that Verizon requires a data plan with a PDA/phone.



Not true, you can have a smartphone without a data plan but what would
be the sense in that?




Still not sure
> if that's true or not. The complaints stated that they were told one shing
> by the sales rep, and another by the support folk.

That part is true. The key with smartphones is when you call in to
Verizon is to tell the first human you get to send you over to the
smartphone help folks. The regular people are clueless.



>
> Thanks for the heads-up on the battery though.
>
> 160 x 160 wouldn't bother me. That's what my Zire 31 is.


It's OK unless you need to see detail, like say, a radar map.