Takeoff distance calculations?

[Frode Berg]

Hi!

I fly a Piper Arrow 180 hp from 1968

Anyone have a spreadsheet or programme to calculate takeoff and landing
distance letting you input weights, pressure alt, temperature?

Frode

[Jim Macklin]

What's wrong with the tables in the flight manual?

Check out the Takeoff Performance Computer at Sporty's part
no. 2091A $22.95, page 35
www.sportys.com
http://www.sportys.com/acb/showdetl.cfm?&did=19&product_id=1199





--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.


"Frode Berg" > wrote in message
...
| Hi!
|
| I fly a Piper Arrow 180 hp from 1968
|
| Anyone have a spreadsheet or programme to calculate
takeoff and landing
| distance letting you input weights, pressure alt,
temperature?
|
| Frode
|
|

[John Gaquin]

"Jim Macklin" > wrote in message
>
> Check out the Takeoff Performance Computer at Sporty's

My God! Its a slide rule! Toys for Luddites! We shall rise again! :-)

[Jim Macklin]

I hope so, I've got a dozen or more circular slide rules,
several regular engineering slide rules, and even a Curta
calculator. The Curta is a hand cranked mechanical
calculator that looks like a hand grenade. Certainly a nice
HP or Ti calculator is faster and more accurate, but harder
to use in flight.




"John Gaquin" > wrote in message
...
|
| "Jim Macklin" > wrote
in message
| >
| > Check out the Takeoff Performance Computer at Sporty's
|
| My God! Its a slide rule! Toys for Luddites! We shall
rise again! :-)
|
|

[tom]

If you want to roll your own spreadsheet, here's all the calculations:

http://www.eaa1000.av.org/technicl/takeoff/takeoff.htm

post it, if you do a spreadsheet,

tom

[Casey Wilson]

"Frode Berg" > wrote in message
...
> Hi!
>
> I fly a Piper Arrow 180 hp from 1968
>
> Anyone have a spreadsheet or programme to calculate takeoff and landing
> distance letting you input weights, pressure alt, temperature?
>
> Frode

I don't, but you do. Check out the POH that came with the aeroplane.

[Peter Duniho]

"Casey Wilson" <N2310D @ gmail.com> wrote in message
news:P01cg.5963$ix2.4053@trnddc03...
> I don't, but you do. Check out the POH that came with the aeroplane.

A 1968 POH includes a spreadsheet or computer program?

Wow. They sure were ahead of their time.

[Frode Berg]

"B A R R Y"
"
> > wrote:
>
>>"Casey Wilson" <N2310D @ gmail.com> wrote in message
>>news:P01cg.5963$ix2.4053@trnddc03...
>>> I don't, but you do. Check out the POH that came with the aeroplane.
>>
>>A 1968 POH includes a spreadsheet or computer program?
>>
>>Wow. They sure were ahead of their time.
>>
>
> A 1968 computer would probably be bigger than the airplane. <G>

Yeah, and I can never get the weight & balance to work when I bring that
darn thing along....

:-)

[Frode Berg]

"Casey Wilson" <N2310D @ gmail.com> skrev i melding
news:P01cg.5963$ix2.4053@trnddc03...
>
> "Frode Berg" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Hi!
>>
>> I fly a Piper Arrow 180 hp from 1968
>>
>> Anyone have a spreadsheet or programme to calculate takeoff and landing
>> distance letting you input weights, pressure alt, temperature?
>>
>> Frode
>
> I don't, but you do. Check out the POH that came with the aeroplane.
>

No POH with the 68 Arrow I'm afraid, but only an "Owners handbook"
Piper didn't start making POH's until a few years later, or so I've been
told.

Anyway, I'm all for paper, eraser and all that analogue stuff of yesteryear
and next year, but it would be fun to be able to calculate light the Boeing
drivers do the excact "estimated" runway distance needed.

(excact estimated, can I say that??)

Anyway, the Owners handbook has a few diagrams, but the resolution for all
the graphs I've ever seen in various other POH's aren't too good.

They give you a general idea, and there's lot's of interpolation going down.
Now, I'd never base a take off down to cm (or inches for you yanks) of
available runway, but putting in a couple of figures into the PDA and
getting a figure back out is an interesting idea to me.
I can always grab the paper version and try to make a more or less straight
pencil line down the graph, but what the hey, the PDA is sitting there, so
an axact figure is possible, and I'm not scared by excact calculations.

:-)

Just another thing to put into my PDA and fiddle with while waiting for the
weather to clear up....

Frode

[tom]

Yeah, but you won't need to look for a tie down point!
tom

[Stubby]

Frode Berg wrote:
> "Casey Wilson" <N2310D @ gmail.com> skrev i melding
> news:P01cg.5963$ix2.4053@trnddc03...
>> "Frode Berg" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Hi!
>>>
>>> I fly a Piper Arrow 180 hp from 1968
>>>
>>> Anyone have a spreadsheet or programme to calculate takeoff and landing
>>> distance letting you input weights, pressure alt, temperature?
>>>
>>> Frode
>> I don't, but you do. Check out the POH that came with the aeroplane.
>>
>
> No POH with the 68 Arrow I'm afraid, but only an "Owners handbook"
> Piper didn't start making POH's until a few years later, or so I've been
> told.
< ...
Don't you need a weight and balance to take off? What do you do if you
get ramp checked?

[Jim Macklin]

What ever number you get from a calculation, a table or a
graph is only as accurate as your skill at reading the data.
A digital computer, whether a PDA or a desktop PC may return
results to 9 decimal places, but the answer is still just a
guess. Add 50% of the stuff that helps and 150% of the
stuff that hurts and then add 10-25% to take-off distance
and reduce climb by 50% and you'll live a lot longer.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.


"Frode Berg" > wrote in message
...
|
| "Casey Wilson" <N2310D @ gmail.com> skrev i melding
| news:P01cg.5963$ix2.4053@trnddc03...
| >
| > "Frode Berg" > wrote in message
| > ...
| >> Hi!
| >>
| >> I fly a Piper Arrow 180 hp from 1968
| >>
| >> Anyone have a spreadsheet or programme to calculate
takeoff and landing
| >> distance letting you input weights, pressure alt,
temperature?
| >>
| >> Frode
| >
| > I don't, but you do. Check out the POH that came
with the aeroplane.
| >
|
| No POH with the 68 Arrow I'm afraid, but only an "Owners
handbook"
| Piper didn't start making POH's until a few years later,
or so I've been
| told.
|
| Anyway, I'm all for paper, eraser and all that analogue
stuff of yesteryear
| and next year, but it would be fun to be able to calculate
light the Boeing
| drivers do the excact "estimated" runway distance needed.
|
| (excact estimated, can I say that??)
|
| Anyway, the Owners handbook has a few diagrams, but the
resolution for all
| the graphs I've ever seen in various other POH's aren't
too good.
|
| They give you a general idea, and there's lot's of
interpolation going down.
| Now, I'd never base a take off down to cm (or inches for
you yanks) of
| available runway, but putting in a couple of figures into
the PDA and
| getting a figure back out is an interesting idea to me.
| I can always grab the paper version and try to make a more
or less straight
| pencil line down the graph, but what the hey, the PDA is
sitting there, so
| an axact figure is possible, and I'm not scared by excact
calculations.
|
| :-)
|
| Just another thing to put into my PDA and fiddle with
while waiting for the
| weather to clear up....
|
| Frode
|
|

[Bob Chilcoat]

Or compute takeoff distance!

--
Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways)


"tom" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Yeah, but you won't need to look for a tie down point!
> tom
>

[tom]

Excellent point. Especially when calculators were first commonly
available, I would see people report results to all eight digits, when
the input numbers would maybe support two digits of accuracy.

Another huge variable is pilot technique.

tom

[Frode Berg]

"Stubby" > skrev i melding
...
> Frode Berg wrote:
>> "Casey Wilson" <N2310D @ gmail.com> skrev i melding
>> news:P01cg.5963$ix2.4053@trnddc03...
>>> "Frode Berg" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> Hi!
>>>>
>>>> I fly a Piper Arrow 180 hp from 1968
>>>>
>>>> Anyone have a spreadsheet or programme to calculate takeoff and landing
>>>> distance letting you input weights, pressure alt, temperature?
>>>>
>>>> Frode
>>> I don't, but you do. Check out the POH that came with the aeroplane.
>>>
>>
>> No POH with the 68 Arrow I'm afraid, but only an "Owners handbook"
>> Piper didn't start making POH's until a few years later, or so I've been
>> told.
> < ...
> Don't you need a weight and balance to take off? What do you do if you
> get ramp checked?

Weight and balance is on a seperate sheet of paper.

Probably recalculated somewhere down the line after mods in panel or other
stuff.

I've never seen an official POH for the 68' Arrow, so I'm guessing they were
delivered with the Owners handbook, and the essential papers (like W&B) in a
binder or something.

Anyone know the facts around these things?

Frode

[Tauno Voipio]

Frode Berg wrote:
> "Stubby" > skrev i melding
> ...
>
>>Frode Berg wrote:
>>
>>>"Casey Wilson" <N2310D @ gmail.com> skrev i melding
>>>news:P01cg.5963$ix2.4053@trnddc03...
>>>
>>>>"Frode Berg" > wrote in message
...
>>>>
>>>>>Hi!
>>>>>
>>>>>I fly a Piper Arrow 180 hp from 1968
>>>>>
>>>>>Anyone have a spreadsheet or programme to calculate takeoff and landing
>>>>>distance letting you input weights, pressure alt, temperature?
>>>>>
>>>>>Frode
>>>>
>>>> I don't, but you do. Check out the POH that came with the aeroplane.
>>>>
>>>
>>>No POH with the 68 Arrow I'm afraid, but only an "Owners handbook"
>>>Piper didn't start making POH's until a few years later, or so I've been
>>>told.
>>
>>< ...
>>Don't you need a weight and balance to take off? What do you do if you
>>get ramp checked?
>
>
> Weight and balance is on a seperate sheet of paper.
>
> Probably recalculated somewhere down the line after mods in panel or other
> stuff.
>
> I've never seen an official POH for the 68' Arrow, so I'm guessing they were
> delivered with the Owners handbook, and the essential papers (like W&B) in a
> binder or something.
>
> Anyone know the facts around these things?
>
> Frode

You need:

- the empty weight and CG location from the weighing certificate,
- the max. gross weight,
- allowed CG limits,
- moment arms of:
- from seats,
- rear seats,
- luggage locker, and
- fuel.

If the system in Norway resembles ours (Finland), you ought to
have a weighing certificate which is not older than 5 years.
The weighing will take care of any actual changes in empty
weight and CG position.

The rest of information should be obtainable from the manual.

--

Tauno Voipio
tauno voipio (at) iki fi

[Slider]

Hi,

3 things spring to mind, in no particular order;

1. Jepp Flitestar has a TO perf calculator,
2. There is a program for the Palm, DSSTOP that seems to work quite
well, &
3. I have "standard" TO and landing distances worked out based on 1000'
alt, 20 deg, max wt, 0 wind and a paved, level, dry runway. Any
deviation from these factors in a 'negative' direction will make me
reevaluate using the POH - ie higher temp or a wet grass strip. For the
Archer the distances to/from 50' are 700m for TO and 450m for landing.

HTH

[Frode Berg]

"Tauno Voipio" >
>>
>> Probably recalculated somewhere down the line after mods in panel or
>> other stuff.
>>
>> I've never seen an official POH for the 68' Arrow, so I'm guessing they
>> were delivered with the Owners handbook, and the essential papers (like
>> W&B) in a binder or something.
>>
>> Anyone know the facts around these things?
>>
>> Frode
>
> You need:
>
> - the empty weight and CG location from the weighing certificate,
> - the max. gross weight,
> - allowed CG limits,
> - moment arms of:
> - from seats,
> - rear seats,
> - luggage locker, and
> - fuel.
>
> If the system in Norway resembles ours (Finland), you ought to
> have a weighing certificate which is not older than 5 years.
> The weighing will take care of any actual changes in empty
> weight and CG position.
>
> The rest of information should be obtainable from the manual.
>
> --
>
> Tauno Voipio
> tauno voipio (at) iki fi

Hi, Yes, I have this W&B paper.

It has been correctly calculated, though not the last 5 years, but no large
mod since then anyway.

Frode

[Jim Macklin]

GiGo, garbage in, garbage out.


"tom" > wrote in message
oups.com...
| Excellent point. Especially when calculators were first
commonly
| available, I would see people report results to all eight
digits, when
| the input numbers would maybe support two digits of
accuracy.
|
| Another huge variable is pilot technique.
|
| tom
|