Idea to prevent plane hijack

[neo]

Separate cockpit and passengers by wall with no door, no window, just
plane wall. No mechanism of communication whatsover with cockpit from
passenger area. That will discourage hijacker because whatever he do,
pilot will not know.

When terrorists know that even flight staff can not talk to pilot, it
is futile to attempt hijack.

[AJ]

And you think a situation where the flight staff can't communicate with
the cockpit is a good thing, eh?

AJ

[Larry Dighera]

On 24 May 2006 06:33:22 -0700, "neo" > wrote in
. com>::

>That will discourage hijacker because whatever he do,
>pilot will not know.

The pilot won't know unless the potential hijacker uses his cell phone
to communicate with the airline with a threat of executing a flight
attendant in the cabin.

[(PeteCresswell)]

Per neo:
>That will discourage hijacker

Am I the only one that thinks skyjacking of passenger planes is a moot issue
until somebody figures out a way to disable the passengers before attempting to
take over the cockpit?

Seems to me like 9-11 depended on the assumption that hijackers were not
suicidal. People were thinking in terms of threats/rewards.... ransom, freeing
prisoners, and so-forth.... Ultimately in the self-preservation of the
perpetrators - not using the aircraft as a guided missile.

After the Twin Towers got hit it took how long.... 45 minutes? for the
passengers in the plane that went down in Pennsylvania to catch on.

Seems like now that knowledge is embedded in the flying public's mind and
anybody who tries to take over a plane would have to overcome the resistance of
passengers who know their lives are on the line.
--
PeteCresswell

[Jim Macklin]

Why not just require one of these actions...
All passengers must fly NUDE.

All passengers must have a 15 day background check and spend
3 days in quarantine before each flight or series of
flights.

All passengers must be armed with a .38 or .45 revolver or
semi-automatic 99 mm - 13 mm) and the passenger briefing
will go like this...
Good morning Mr. Atta, your seat is 14C, do you have your
gun?
No, just our box cutters.
Here is a selection of guns, do you want a 38 or 45?
Everybody has one. Just take a gun and a seat...
Good morning ladies and gentlemen, [seat belt, o2 briefing].
Everybody is armed and has 6 shots, just stay in your seats
and don't cause any trouble. If anybody tries to cause
trouble, just shoot them. Have a nice flight on Second
Amendment Airlines.


BTW, consider a western movie... the town character hobbles
to the sheriff's office, Mr. Dillon, the outlaws are going
to rob the stage just out side of town, what shall we do?
If this answer was given, no matter where in the world, the
audience would laugh, Take the guns away from the
passengers to avoid violence.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.


"neo" > wrote in message
oups.com...
| Separate cockpit and passengers by wall with no door, no
window, just
| plane wall. No mechanism of communication whatsover with
cockpit from
| passenger area. That will discourage hijacker because
whatever he do,
| pilot will not know.
|
| When terrorists know that even flight staff can not talk
to pilot, it
| is futile to attempt hijack.
|

[ktbr]

neo wrote:
> When terrorists know that even flight staff can not talk to pilot, it
> is futile to attempt hijack.
>

Sounds nice but there are still ways to bring down a plane without
breaching the cockpit... especially where the perps have no concern
for their own life or even expect to glorified by killing themselves
and others.

[Roy Smith]

In article >,
Larry Dighera > wrote:
>On 24 May 2006 06:33:22 -0700, "neo" > wrote in
. com>::
>
>>That will discourage hijacker because whatever he do,
>>pilot will not know.
>
>The pilot won't know unless the potential hijacker uses his cell phone
>to communicate with the airline with a threat of executing a flight
>attendant in the cabin.

No can do. All the cell phones were turned off before the flight took
off, per the safety briefing.

[Peter R.]

Jim Macklin > wrote:

> Why not just require one of these actions...
> All passengers must fly NUDE.

The required amount of airsickness bags on each flight would then have to
increase exponentially. :)

--
Peter

[ktbr]

Jim Macklin wrote:

> Why not just require one of these actions...
> All passengers must fly NUDE.

The prospect of having to sit next to (much less *look* at)
certain people NAKED is enough cause serious anguish and risk
to health. 8^o

[[email protected]]

> Am I the only one that thinks skyjacking of passenger planes is a moot issue
> until somebody figures out a way to disable the passengers before attempting to
> take over the cockpit?

I agree completely. I think the era of the 'skyjack' is over. There
are much easier unguarded targets that are equally effective, i.e.
subway tunnels, bridges and tunnels in rush hour, ferries. A
coodinated suicide attack on 10 targets would be equally as effective.

Cheers,
Geoff Glave
Vancouver, Canada

PS Hello Echelon :)

[mrtravel]

Jim Macklin wrote:

> Why not just require one of these actions...
> All passengers must fly NUDE.
>
> All passengers must have a 15 day background check and spend
> 3 days in quarantine before each flight or series of
> flights.
>
> All passengers must be armed with a .38 or .45 revolver or
> semi-automatic 99 mm - 13 mm) and the passenger briefing
>

99 mm? WOW. Are you going to put it in your carry on?

[enri]

On Wed, 24 May 2006 14:28:34 GMT, ktbr > wrote:

>Jim Macklin wrote:
>
>> Why not just require one of these actions...
>> All passengers must fly NUDE.
>
>The prospect of having to sit next to (much less *look* at)
>certain people NAKED is enough cause serious anguish and risk
>to health. 8^o

How about having all the passangers wear disposable togas supplied by
the airlines ? Don't know about undies though....

enri

[Jim Macklin]

Or there would be a body mass index standard, over-weight
fat pigs can't fly.



"Peter R." > wrote in message
...
| Jim Macklin > wrote:
|
| > Why not just require one of these actions...
| > All passengers must fly NUDE.
|
| The required amount of airsickness bags on each flight
would then have to
| increase exponentially. :)
|
| --
| Peter

[Jim Macklin]

typo alert [same key 99 (( (9, intended (9 mm - 13 MM)
but you knew that.


--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.


"mrtravel" > wrote in message
. net...
| Jim Macklin wrote:
|
| > Why not just require one of these actions...
| > All passengers must fly NUDE.
| >
| > All passengers must have a 15 day background check and
spend
| > 3 days in quarantine before each flight or series of
| > flights.
| >
| > All passengers must be armed with a .38 or .45 revolver
or
| > semi-automatic 99 mm - 13 mm) and the passenger briefing
| >
|
| 99 mm? WOW. Are you going to put it in your carry on?

[Al]

"(PeteCresswell)" > wrote in message
...
> Per neo:
>>That will discourage hijacker
>
> Am I the only one that thinks skyjacking of passenger planes is a moot
> issue
> until somebody figures out a way to disable the passengers before
> attempting to
> take over the cockpit?
>

No, you are not the only one.

> Seems to me like 9-11 depended on the assumption that hijackers were not
> suicidal. People were thinking in terms of threats/rewards.... ransom,
> freeing
> prisoners, and so-forth.... Ultimately in the self-preservation of the
> perpetrators - not using the aircraft as a guided missile.
>
> After the Twin Towers got hit it took how long.... 45 minutes? for the
> passengers in the plane that went down in Pennsylvania to catch on.
>

Bingo.

> Seems like now that knowledge is embedded in the flying public's mind and
> anybody who tries to take over a plane would have to overcome the
> resistance of
> passengers who know their lives are on the line.
> --
> PeteCresswell

You've hit the nail on the head Pete. There is indeed a new reality. Things
started changing when the first airplane hit the building, and were changed
forever before the one went in in Penn. Now, if you are going to hijack
something, you will need to control EVERYONE, and that includes granny in
27E. Threats won't work anymore.

Al

[tom418]

No door? Arrgh.
When I was starting out as a B727 S/O, I used to look at the cabin throught
the "peephole" to alleviate boredom. Yes they called me "peeping tom"

I had already spent time changing the lettering on my panels to read "Go Eat
Out Norma" instead of "Cargo Heat Outflow Valve -Normal/Close " , etc. :)

"neo" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Separate cockpit and passengers by wall with no door, no window, just
> plane wall. No mechanism of communication whatsover with cockpit from
> passenger area. That will discourage hijacker because whatever he do,
> pilot will not know.
>
> When terrorists know that even flight staff can not talk to pilot, it
> is futile to attempt hijack.
>

[Jay Masino]

In rec.aviation.piloting Jim Macklin > wrote:
> All passengers must be armed with a .38 or .45 revolver or

..45 revolver? What is this, the old west (or do you want to use moon clips)??


--

Jay Masino "Home is where the critters are"
http://www.JayMasino.com
http://www.OceanCityAirport.com
http://www.oc-Adolfos.com

[Robert Cohen]

More great ideas to prevent highjackings

10. Higher frares
9. Double the screening ordeals, especially for people in a hurry
(their planes leave in 10 minutes or less)
8. Take-off tennis shoes with non-white socks: throw away those ugly
clashing socks
7. When you first enter the airplane, just tell the crew-off, and that
should keep 'em on alert, and very anxious to beat-up any fool who
would tell 'em off
6. Pornography in the INFLIGHT magazine might divert a horny fanatic's
concentration
5. Electronic Bandits or at least unpredictable or variable
reinforcement vending machines (the secret behind slot machine
addiction & essence of Pavlov-Skinner research)
4. The captains must do more of their terrific laid-back Jimmy Stewart
impressions
3. FULL-SIZE PILLOWS to induce sleep rather than the torturous
suffering from the inherently dis-comforting tiny pillows
2. Handout leftover Halloween candy donated by the fine folks at
Airplane Travellers for Diabetes Advancement
1. Don't turn-off your electrical things even though the attendant asks
you to do so at least twice, because you couldn't hear the requests,
and thus everybody will hate your insubordinate dumbness

[gatt]

"neo" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Separate cockpit and passengers by wall with no door, no window, just
> plane wall. No mechanism of communication whatsover with cockpit from
> passenger area. That will discourage hijacker because whatever he do,
> pilot will not know.
>
> When terrorists know that even flight staff can not talk to pilot, it
> is futile to attempt hijack.

Probably not necessary given the lack of hijackings in the last 5-6 years.

-c

[gatt]

"(PeteCresswell)" > wrote in message
...

> Am I the only one that thinks skyjacking of passenger planes is a moot
> issue
> until somebody figures out a way to disable the passengers before
> attempting to
> take over the cockpit?

Nope. That card has been played. We've seen what happens when some hothead
thinks he's gonna try.

Most red-neck testosterone-swillin' meat-eating ol' American boys are just
waiting for the opportunity to stomp the **** out of a hijacker these days.
That's cooler than rescuing kittens from a housefire.

-c

[gatt]

"Jim Macklin" > wrote in message
news:Z%Zcg.23673$ZW3.260@dukeread04...
> Why not just require one of these actions...
> All passengers must fly NUDE.


Change it to all flight attendants and resurrected the Hooters airline, and
I'm in!

-c

[gatt]

"ktbr" > wrote in message
...
> neo wrote:
>> When terrorists know that even flight staff can not talk to pilot, it
>> is futile to attempt hijack.
>>
>
> Sounds nice but there are still ways to bring down a plane without
> breaching the cockpit...

Yep. But the max number of casualties would be the number of pax and
whoever happens to be beneath it. No more human cruise missiles.

-c

[David Dyer-Bennet]

(Roy Smith) writes:

> In article >,
> Larry Dighera > wrote:
> >On 24 May 2006 06:33:22 -0700, "neo" > wrote in
> . com>::
> >
> >>That will discourage hijacker because whatever he do,
> >>pilot will not know.
> >
> >The pilot won't know unless the potential hijacker uses his cell phone
> >to communicate with the airline with a threat of executing a flight
> >attendant in the cabin.
>
> No can do. All the cell phones were turned off before the flight took
> off, per the safety briefing.

Yeah, well, if that works, then we don't have to worry about hijacking
anyway, because it's illegal.
--
David Dyer-Bennet, >, <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/>
RKBA: <http://www.dd-b.net/carry/>
Pics: <http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/> <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/>
Dragaera/Steven Brust: <http://dragaera.info/>

[David Dyer-Bennet]

"(PeteCresswell)" > writes:

> Per neo:
> >That will discourage hijacker
>
> Am I the only one that thinks skyjacking of passenger planes is a
> moot issue until somebody figures out a way to disable the
> passengers before attempting to take over the cockpit?

Nope. My impression is that this is the default view now -- as you
say, the paradigm shifted about an hour into 9/11 (I forget the exact
timing, but the Flight 93 passengers had already gotten the message),
and I don't think it's shifted back.

I'm rather surprised at the degree of restraint practiced by
passengers dealing with suspected terrorists; so far as I know there
have been no deaths so far...and at least one *real*, if incompetent
and probably independent, terrorist stopped.
--
David Dyer-Bennet, >, <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/>
RKBA: <http://www.dd-b.net/carry/>
Pics: <http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/> <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/>
Dragaera/Steven Brust: <http://dragaera.info/>

[David Dyer-Bennet]

(Jay Masino) writes:

> In rec.aviation.piloting Jim Macklin > wrote:
> > All passengers must be armed with a .38 or .45 revolver or
>
> .45 revolver? What is this, the old west (or do you want to use moon clips)??

The .45 Long Colt is a great cartridge, if you hand-load. Not so much
available for it commercially. A friend had a Ruger 445 ultr-light in
..45LC as a carry gun. Probably get better ballistic results than my
..44 special if you hand-load for it (but if I hand-loaded for mine, I
could probably match it).

And moon or half-moon clips aren't a bad thing; think of them as cheap
speed-loaders that are easier to manipulate (don't have to unlock and
remove).
--
David Dyer-Bennet, >, <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/>
RKBA: <http://www.dd-b.net/carry/>
Pics: <http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/> <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/>
Dragaera/Steven Brust: <http://dragaera.info/>

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Larry Dighera" > wrote in message
...
>
> The pilot won't know unless the potential hijacker uses his cell phone
> to communicate with the airline with a threat of executing a flight
> attendant in the cabin.
>

FCC rules don't allow that.

[Frank]

the idea is as old as long as planes are hijacked.
it was mentioned after 9/11 a few times.

bye


frank

[tom418]

That was Archie Bunker's (All in the Family) idea:

F/As pass out the pistols at the beginning of the flight; and collect the
pistols at the destination. He also suggested that bank robberies could be
averted by having trap doors in front of the tellers, with the
would-be-robbers falling into chutes and sliding to the nearest police
station ...
"Jay Masino" > wrote in message
. ..
> In rec.aviation.piloting Jim Macklin
> wrote:
> > All passengers must be armed with a .38 or .45 revolver or
>
> .45 revolver? What is this, the old west (or do you want to use moon
clips)??
>
>
> --
>
> Jay Masino "Home is where the critters are"
> http://www.JayMasino.com
> http://www.OceanCityAirport.com
> http://www.oc-Adolfos.com

[David Dyer-Bennet]

David Dyer-Bennet > writes:

> ... A friend had a Ruger 445 ultr-light in
^^^^^ Taurus!

Sorry about that!
--
David Dyer-Bennet, >, <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/>
RKBA: <http://www.dd-b.net/carry/>
Pics: <http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/> <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/>
Dragaera/Steven Brust: <http://dragaera.info/>

[Jim Macklin]

Sure, 1873 45 Colt, S&W No. 3, or a modern S&W with full
moon clips in 45 ACP.

BTW, does anybody know the lethal; weapon provided to all
passengers compartments on every airliner today? There are
dozens of these lethal impact weapons provided.


"Jay Masino" > wrote in message
. ..
| In rec.aviation.piloting Jim Macklin
> wrote:
| > All passengers must be armed with a .38 or .45 revolver
or
|
| .45 revolver? What is this, the old west (or do you want
to use moon clips)??
|
|
| --
|
| Jay Masino "Home is where the
critters are"
| http://www.JayMasino.com
| http://www.OceanCityAirport.com
| http://www.oc-Adolfos.com

[Jim Macklin]

GGW Air?


Seriously, clothes hide ugly people's flesh, protect from
cuts and burns during a crash if the fabric is chosen
properly and can hide weapons.
Totally safe airline... passengers sedated, nude, boxing
gloves locked on hands and feet. No alcohol served, no
smoking, no matches or lighters. All passengers in zip lock
bags to prevent DNA contamination, Toilets removed from
airplanes and passengers required to remain belt in their
seats until removed by baggage handlers.

Should increase sales of Cessna and Beech aircraft.



--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.


"gatt" > wrote in message
...
|
| "Jim Macklin" > wrote
in message
| news:Z%Zcg.23673$ZW3.260@dukeread04...
| > Why not just require one of these actions...
| > All passengers must fly NUDE.
|
|
| Change it to all flight attendants and resurrected the
Hooters airline, and
| I'm in!
|
| -c
|
|

[(PeteCresswell)]

Per "Jim Macklin" >:
>All passengers must fly NUDE.

"Fly naked and FedEx your bags"..... Has a certain cache'...
--
PeteCresswell

[Jim Macklin]

It would speed up screening as long as the screeners were
gay/lesbian and lesbians inspected men and gay men inspected
women. But I can see delays several hours long if straight
men have to screen college girls and actresses.


Of course boob-jobs could include pockets and they could do
kangaroo pouch add-on surgery. But even nude/naked people
could hide explosives internally by swallowing C4, like they
do with high price drugs, or even plastic explosive surgery.
How many pounds of C4 can a 120 pound skinny terrorist have
packed into biceps and six-pack?



"(PeteCresswell)" > wrote in message
...
| Per "Jim Macklin" >:
| >All passengers must fly NUDE.
|
| "Fly naked and FedEx your bags"..... Has a certain
cache'...
| --
| PeteCresswell

[David Dyer-Bennet]

"Jim Macklin" > writes:

> Sure, 1873 45 Colt, S&W No. 3, or a modern S&W with full
> moon clips in 45 ACP.
>
> BTW, does anybody know the lethal; weapon provided to all
> passengers compartments on every airliner today? There are
> dozens of these lethal impact weapons provided.

Pillows (but you said impact, so that's not what you're thinking of).

You could also strangle somebody with the demonstration seatbelt, and
bash their brains out with the portable oxygen system for the cabin
crew.

I don't think the seat cushions are hard enough to break things with
or soft enough to be very good for smothering.
--
David Dyer-Bennet, >, <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/>
RKBA: <http://www.dd-b.net/carry/>
Pics: <http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/> <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/>
Dragaera/Steven Brust: <http://dragaera.info/>

[Aluckyguess]

all they need is an aircraft radio and they can talk with the pilot and
anyone else they feel like talking to.
"neo" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Separate cockpit and passengers by wall with no door, no window, just
> plane wall. No mechanism of communication whatsover with cockpit from
> passenger area. That will discourage hijacker because whatever he do,
> pilot will not know.
>
> When terrorists know that even flight staff can not talk to pilot, it
> is futile to attempt hijack.
>

[Bert Hyman]

In "Aluckyguess" >
wrote:

> all they need is an aircraft radio and they can talk with the pilot and
> anyone else they feel like talking to.

Ah! But it's against the law to operate a radio transmitter on board a
commercial aircraft!

That'll certainly stop them.

> "neo" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>> Separate cockpit and passengers by wall with no door, no window, just
>> plane wall. No mechanism of communication whatsover with cockpit from
>> passenger area. That will discourage hijacker because whatever he do,
>> pilot will not know.
>>
>> When terrorists know that even flight staff can not talk to pilot, it
>> is futile to attempt hijack.


--
Bert Hyman St. Paul, MN

[Jim Macklin]

You came close, think nun-chucks and seat belt extenders.


"David Dyer-Bennet" > wrote in message
...
| "Jim Macklin" >
writes:
|
| > Sure, 1873 45 Colt, S&W No. 3, or a modern S&W with full
| > moon clips in 45 ACP.
| >
| > BTW, does anybody know the lethal; weapon provided to
all
| > passengers compartments on every airliner today? There
are
| > dozens of these lethal impact weapons provided.
|
| Pillows (but you said impact, so that's not what you're
thinking of).
|
| You could also strangle somebody with the demonstration
seatbelt, and
| bash their brains out with the portable oxygen system for
the cabin
| crew.
|
| I don't think the seat cushions are hard enough to break
things with
| or soft enough to be very good for smothering.
| --
| David Dyer-Bennet, >,
<http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/>
| RKBA: <http://www.dd-b.net/carry/>
| Pics: <http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/>
<http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/>
| Dragaera/Steven Brust: <http://dragaera.info/>

[Bob Fry]

Would require major redesign of lavs, etc.

I think the reinforced doors are sufficient. I can think of two
deterrents against hijackers:

1. Violent manuevers. Warn that everyone should strap in, if the
hijackers don't they will get tossed about.

2. Quit pressurizing the main cabin. You want O2? Sit in your seat
and grab a mask. This would only work above, say, 15K feet. Also I
understand there are portable bottles for the FAs, still it might
work.

Obviously these are last resort, but with the reinforced doors
nowadays to slow down attackers, the above could gain some advantage.

[nobody]

Bob Fry wrote:
> I think the reinforced doors are sufficient. I can think of two
> deterrents against hijackers:

Reinforced doors is what killed the passengers aboard the cyprius jet
because the crew lost consciousness and the only person still conscious
abord was not able to get into the cockpit until the engines ran out of
fuel and the magnet that kept the door locked lost power. It was too
late to rescue the plane at that time.

The re-enforced doors may be a good *idea* but they were implemented in
a rush without really thinking through all of the implications.

Consider the Egyptair 767. Without the re-enforced doors, the captain
was able to get into the cockpit and at least attempt to prevent the
co-pilot from ditching the plane. Had there been re-enforced doors,
there would have been 0 hope.

[mrtravel]

Robert Cohen wrote:

> More great ideas to prevent highjackings
>
> 10. Higher frares


The 9/11 terrorists were well funded

[mrtravel]

tom418 wrote:

> That was Archie Bunker's (All in the Family) idea:
>
> F/As pass out the pistols at the beginning of the flight;

Won't happen. Airlines have cut back on entertainment

[mrtravel]

Jim Macklin wrote:

> Sure, 1873 45 Colt, S&W No. 3, or a modern S&W with full
> moon clips in 45 ACP.
>
> BTW, does anybody know the lethal; weapon provided to all
> passengers compartments on every airliner today? There are
> dozens of these lethal impact weapons provided.
>

Wine bottles
Pens
Corkscrew
Device for heating liquid
Seat power outlets
Boarding passes

[mrtravel]

Aluckyguess wrote:

> all they need is an aircraft radio and they can talk with the pilot and
> anyone else they feel like talking to.

Well, they already have a phone.

[Sylvain]

mrtravel wrote:
>> all they need is an aircraft radio and they can talk with the pilot and
>> anyone else they feel like talking to.
>
> Well, they already have a phone.

then remove the cockpit and the pilots altogether from commercial
aircraft, i.e., UAV version of all airliners, problem solved (and
while you are at it, offshore the remote controlling of said UAVs,
thus killing two birds in one stroke, i.e., highjacking problem,
and cost reduction for the airlines) -- then of course one could
argue that the highjacker wouldn't have to bother going into the
aircraft in the first place and could do it from the ground as well,
but you'll always have people whining about this or that...

--Sylvain

[Leonard Milcin Jr.]

gatt wrote:
> "ktbr" > wrote in message
> ...
>> neo wrote:
>>> When terrorists know that even flight staff can not talk to pilot, it
>>> is futile to attempt hijack.
>>>
>> Sounds nice but there are still ways to bring down a plane without
>> breaching the cockpit...
>
> Yep. But the max number of casualties would be the number of pax and
> whoever happens to be beneath it. No more human cruise missiles.

So you think that 800 victims would be not enough for a suicidal
terrorist?


L.

[Leonard Milcin Jr.]

Jim Macklin wrote:
> Seriously, clothes hide ugly people's flesh, protect from
> cuts and burns during a crash

And how many survive crash anyway? And those who survive do
you think it is because of clothes?



L.

[B A R R Y]

neo wrote:
> Separate cockpit and passengers by wall with no door, no window, just
> plane wall. No mechanism of communication whatsover with cockpit from
> passenger area.

How will the copilot say "bu-bye"?

[B A R R Y]

Peter R. wrote:
> Jim Macklin > wrote:
>
>> Why not just require one of these actions...
>> All passengers must fly NUDE.
>
> The required amount of airsickness bags on each flight would then have to
> increase exponentially. :)
>


Think of all the dark strips on the seat cushion fabric...

[Jim Macklin]

Far more than you think survive crashes. Half the
passengers on the DC 10 in Iowa walked away. Motorcycles
crash at high speed and properly dressed riders live to heal
and ride again. A friend crashed and burned, his hands were
protected with Nomex gloves and his body by a Nomex jump
suit, his injuries were mostly to his face. But he wasn't
beautiful anyway.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.


"Leonard Milcin Jr." > wrote
in message ...
| Jim Macklin wrote:
| > Seriously, clothes hide ugly people's flesh, protect
from
| > cuts and burns during a crash
|
| And how many survive crash anyway? And those who survive
do
| you think it is because of clothes?
|
|
|
| L.

[Jim Macklin]

That is why the passengers would be supplied with form
generic zip lock body bags, they'd be thrown away after each
use. So the lavatories could be removed, any bodily waste
and fluids would be in the passenger identified bags. They
could be checked for DNA to identify terrorists, to find
smuggled drugs and as an extra service, to screen for all
known diseases and birth defects.
The zip lock bag would cover the head too, and have O2
connection, this will make the passengers breathing air even
more pure and if they get airsickness, the barf will be
completely contained, no smell, no clean-up required.

Privacy issues and modesty can be handled in two ways,
either those concerned about their privacy will just have to
wear a visual visor, like on Jordy (Star Trek NG) to show
them a virtual world or they can just be blind folded and
told they are alone.

The zip lock bags could be printed with pretty pictures in
strategic locations or just advertising...

Hooters, where our breasts are finger licking good.

Airport Annie's, all customers are first class. [That is a
sign on a massage parlor on the Wichita Airport, in a city
owned, rented building]

Viagra, don't bust a zipper.

Hefty, our passenger bags are the best. Used by more
airlines than the other brands.

Larry, The Cable Guy, now showing, don't laugh too hard or
you'll fill your bag.

Microsoft, the anti-Viagra.

Feel like an astronaut, crap in your pants.





"B A R R Y" > wrote in message
. net...
| Peter R. wrote:
| > Jim Macklin >
wrote:
| >
| >> Why not just require one of these actions...
| >> All passengers must fly NUDE.
| >
| > The required amount of airsickness bags on each flight
would then have to
| > increase exponentially. :)
| >
|
|
| Think of all the dark strips on the seat cushion fabric...

[Richard Riley]

Yeah. .47-70.

[Jon Woellhaf]

..45-70?

"Richard Riley" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Yeah. .47-70.
>

[Morgans]

"B A R R Y" > wrote

> Think of all the dark strips on the seat cushion fabric...

Visualizing all of the passengers nude was bad enough, and quite a
disturbing picture.

Now, you have taken it to the next step....
Too far!!!

Sick. Yuck!
<G>
--
Jim in NC

[(PeteCresswell)]

Per "Jim Macklin" >:
>Motorcycles
>crash at high speed and properly dressed riders live to heal
>and ride again.

Maybe it's semantics... but when I hear "crash" I think of impact - as opposed
to just going down at speed and sliding to a stop.
--
PeteCresswell

[Morgans]

"(PeteCresswell)" > wrote in message
...
> Per "Jim Macklin" >:
>>Motorcycles
>>crash at high speed and properly dressed riders live to heal
>>and ride again.
>
> Maybe it's semantics... but when I hear "crash" I think of impact - as
> opposed
> to just going down at speed and sliding to a stop.

Right. Riders that stop suddenly in a motorcycle crash, are nearly always
killed instantly. If they slide, they live, unless they hit something while
sliding.

Also, given that motorcycles seldom erupt into a fireball, that also helps
survival rates, compared to airplanes.

Speed also has a good bit to deal with survival. Airliners that crash at
flight speeds, or even half of that, are likely to have 8 times the kinetic
energy, or more, than a motorcycle.

But then we both know that Jim was just being argumentative, right?
--
Jim in NC

[DevilsPGD]

In message >
"(PeteCresswell)" > wrote:

>After the Twin Towers got hit it took how long.... 45 minutes? for the
>passengers in the plane that went down in Pennsylvania to catch on.

How would they catch on? Was the plane equipped with TVs?

If not, I wouldn't have expected those passengers to catch on at all.

--
"I think women and sea men don't mix"
-- Smithers, Simpsons

[Gig 601XL Builder]

"DevilsPGD" > wrote in message
...
> In message >
> "(PeteCresswell)" > wrote:
>
>>After the Twin Towers got hit it took how long.... 45 minutes? for the
>>passengers in the plane that went down in Pennsylvania to catch on.
>
> How would they catch on? Was the plane equipped with TVs?
>
> If not, I wouldn't have expected those passengers to catch on at all.
>
> --

cell and air phones.

[(PeteCresswell)]

Per DevilsPGD:
>How would they catch on?

Cell phone conversations with people who were watching via TV.

--
PeteCresswell

[David Dyer-Bennet]

DevilsPGD > writes:

> In message >
> "(PeteCresswell)" > wrote:
>
> >After the Twin Towers got hit it took how long.... 45 minutes? for the
> >passengers in the plane that went down in Pennsylvania to catch on.
>
> How would they catch on? Was the plane equipped with TVs?
>
> If not, I wouldn't have expected those passengers to catch on at all.

Cell phones.
--
David Dyer-Bennet, >, <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/>
RKBA: <http://www.dd-b.net/carry/>
Pics: <http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/> <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/>
Dragaera/Steven Brust: <http://dragaera.info/>

[Mark²]

neo wrote:
> Separate cockpit and passengers by wall with no door, no window, just
> plane wall. No mechanism of communication whatsover with cockpit from
> passenger area. That will discourage hijacker because whatever he do,
> pilot will not know.
>
> When terrorists know that even flight staff can not talk to pilot, it
> is futile to attempt hijack.

-Heck, just require that all passengers take a nice big bite of bloody meat
as they board...

Muslim terrorists don't like that idea all too well because it means they
don't get the 70 virgins...among other things...

--
Images (Plus Snaps & Grabs) by Mark² at:
www.pbase.com/markuson

[Frank F. Matthews]

Mark² wrote:

> neo wrote:
>
>>Separate cockpit and passengers by wall with no door, no window, just
>>plane wall. No mechanism of communication whatsover with cockpit from
>>passenger area. That will discourage hijacker because whatever he do,
>>pilot will not know.
>>
>>When terrorists know that even flight staff can not talk to pilot, it
>>is futile to attempt hijack.
>
>
> -Heck, just require that all passengers take a nice big bite of bloody meat
> as they board...
>
> Muslim terrorists don't like that idea all too well because it means they
> don't get the 70 virgins...among other things...
>

As long as it's a nice beef steak that shouldn't matter to either Jewish
or Muslim passengers. Terrorists or not.

[Flyingmonk]

That's good one Roy, it really gave me a laugh...

Monk

Roy Smith wrote:
> In article >,
> Larry Dighera > wrote:
> >On 24 May 2006 06:33:22 -0700, "neo" > wrote in
> . com>::
> >
> >>That will discourage hijacker because whatever he do,
> >>pilot will not know.
> >
> >The pilot won't know unless the potential hijacker uses his cell phone
> >to communicate with the airline with a threat of executing a flight
> >attendant in the cabin.
>
> No can do. All the cell phones were turned off before the flight took
> off, per the safety briefing.

[Jim Macklin]

Yep, much prefer the idea of arming everybody on the plane
and letting the lunatics, terrorists and choose to be
peaceful or dead. We still need to screen for bombs and
such.

And I would enjoy the nude scheme only if I was flying on a
plane with a girls college volleyball team.



"Morgans" > wrote in message
...
|
| "(PeteCresswell)" > wrote in message
| ...
| > Per "Jim Macklin"
>:
| >>Motorcycles
| >>crash at high speed and properly dressed riders live to
heal
| >>and ride again.
| >
| > Maybe it's semantics... but when I hear "crash" I think
of impact - as
| > opposed
| > to just going down at speed and sliding to a stop.
|
| Right. Riders that stop suddenly in a motorcycle crash,
are nearly always
| killed instantly. If they slide, they live, unless they
hit something while
| sliding.
|
| Also, given that motorcycles seldom erupt into a fireball,
that also helps
| survival rates, compared to airplanes.
|
| Speed also has a good bit to deal with survival.
Airliners that crash at
| flight speeds, or even half of that, are likely to have 8
times the kinetic
| energy, or more, than a motorcycle.
|
| But then we both know that Jim was just being
argumentative, right?
| --
| Jim in NC
|
|

[Jim Macklin]

cellphones, they were told about the other planes.



"DevilsPGD" > wrote in message
...
| In message >
| "(PeteCresswell)" > wrote:
|
| >After the Twin Towers got hit it took how long.... 45
minutes? for the
| >passengers in the plane that went down in Pennsylvania to
catch on.
|
| How would they catch on? Was the plane equipped with TVs?
|
| If not, I wouldn't have expected those passengers to catch
on at all.
|
| --
| "I think women and sea men don't mix"
| -- Smithers, Simpsons

[(PeteCresswell)]

Per "Mark?" <mjmorgan(lowest even number >:
>Muslim terrorists don't like that idea all too well because it means they
>don't get the 70 virgins...among other things...

-----------------------------------------------------
After getting nailed by a daisy-cutter bomb, Osama makes his way to the pearly
gates.

There, he is greeted by George Washington.

"How dare you attack the nation I helped conceive!" yells Mr. Washington,
slapping Osama in the face.

Patrick Henry comes up from behind.

"You wanted to end the Americans' liberty, so they gave you death!" Henry
punches Osama on the nose.

James Madison comes up next, and says "This is why I allowed the Federal
government to provide for the common defense!" He drops a large weight on
Osama's knee.

Osama is subject to similar beatings from John Randolph of Roanoke, James
Monroe, and 65 other people who have the same love for liberty and America.

As he writhes on the ground, Thomas Jefferson picks him up to hurl him back
toward the gate where he is to be judged.

As Osama awaits his journey to his final very hot destination, he screams "This
is not what I was promised!"

An angel replies "I told you there would be 72 Virginians waiting for you.
What did you think I said?"
-----------------------------------------------------
--
PeteCresswell

[Mark²]

(PeteCresswell) wrote:
> Per "Mark?" <mjmorgan(lowest even number >:
>> Muslim terrorists don't like that idea all too well because it means
>> they don't get the 70 virgins...among other things...
>
> -----------------------------------------------------
> After getting nailed by a daisy-cutter bomb, Osama makes his way to
> the pearly gates.
>
> There, he is greeted by George Washington.
>
> "How dare you attack the nation I helped conceive!" yells Mr.
> Washington, slapping Osama in the face.
>
> Patrick Henry comes up from behind.
>
> "You wanted to end the Americans' liberty, so they gave you death!"
> Henry punches Osama on the nose.
>
> James Madison comes up next, and says "This is why I allowed the
> Federal government to provide for the common defense!" He drops a
> large weight on Osama's knee.
>
> Osama is subject to similar beatings from John Randolph of Roanoke,
> James Monroe, and 65 other people who have the same love for liberty
> and America.
>
> As he writhes on the ground, Thomas Jefferson picks him up to hurl
> him back toward the gate where he is to be judged.
>
> As Osama awaits his journey to his final very hot destination, he
> screams "This is not what I was promised!"
>
> An angel replies "I told you there would be 72 Virginians waiting for
> you. What did you think I said?"

:)

--
Images (Plus Snaps & Grabs) by Mark² at:
www.pbase.com/markuson

[Larry Dighera]

On Sat, 27 May 2006 18:11:02 -0400, "(PeteCresswell)" >
wrote in >::

>As Osama awaits his journey to his final very hot destination, he screams "This
>is not what I was promised!"
>
>An angel replies "I told you there would be 72 Virginians waiting for you.
>What did you think I said?"


The Muslim religion is the fastest growing religion per capita in the
United States!

Allah or Jesus? by Rick Mathes

Last month I attended my annual training session that's required for
maintaining my state prison security clearance. During the training
session there was a presentation by three speakers representing the
Roman Catholic, Protestant and Muslim faiths, who explained each of
their belief systems. I was particularly interested in what the
Islamic Imam had to say.

The Imam gave a great presentation of the basics of Islam, complete
with a video. After the presentations, time was provided for
questions and answers. When it was my turn, I directed my question to
the Imam and asked, "Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand
that most Imams and clerics of Islam have declared a holy jihad [Holy
war] against the infidels of the world. And, that by killing an
infidel, which is a command to all Muslims, they are assured of a
place in heaven. If that's the case, can you give me the definition
of an infidel?"

There was no disagreement with my statements and without hesitation,
he replied, "Non-believers!"

I responded, "So, let me make sure I have this straight. All followers
of Allah have been commanded to kill everyone who is not of your faith
so they can go to Heaven. Is that correct?"

The expression on his face changed from one of authority and command
to that of a little boy who had just gotten caught with his hand in
the cookie jar. He sheepishly replied, "Yes."

I then stated, "Well, sir, I have a real problem trying to imagine
Pope John Paul commanding all Catholics to kill those of your faith
or Dr. Stanley ordering Protestants to do the same in order to go to
Heaven!"

The Imam was speechless.

I continued, "I also have a problem with being your friend when you
and your brother clerics are telling your followers to kill me. Let
me ask you a question. Would you rather have your Allah who tells you
to kill me in order to go to Heaven or my Jesus who tells me to love
you because I am going to Heaven and He wants you to be with me?"

You could have heard a pin drop as the Imam hung his head in shame.
Needless to say, the organizers and/or promoters of the
'Diversification' training seminar were not happy with Rick's way of
dealing with the Islamic, Imam and exposing the truth about the
Muslim's beliefs.

This is a true story and the author, Rick Mathes, is a well-known
leader in prison ministry.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/allah.asp

[Jim Macklin]

There are reasons for Roman genocide, they haven't changed,
just the players.



"Larry Dighera" > wrote in message
...
| On Sat, 27 May 2006 18:11:02 -0400, "(PeteCresswell)"
>
| wrote in >::
|
| >As Osama awaits his journey to his final very hot
destination, he screams "This
| >is not what I was promised!"
| >
| >An angel replies "I told you there would be 72 Virginians
waiting for you.
| >What did you think I said?"
|
|
| The Muslim religion is the fastest growing religion per
capita in the
| United States!
|
| Allah or Jesus? by Rick Mathes
|
| Last month I attended my annual training session that's
required for
| maintaining my state prison security clearance. During the
training
| session there was a presentation by three speakers
representing the
| Roman Catholic, Protestant and Muslim faiths, who
explained each of
| their belief systems. I was particularly interested in
what the
| Islamic Imam had to say.
|
| The Imam gave a great presentation of the basics of Islam,
complete
| with a video. After the presentations, time was provided
for
| questions and answers. When it was my turn, I directed my
question to
| the Imam and asked, "Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but
I understand
| that most Imams and clerics of Islam have declared a holy
jihad [Holy
| war] against the infidels of the world. And, that by
killing an
| infidel, which is a command to all Muslims, they are
assured of a
| place in heaven. If that's the case, can you give me the
definition
| of an infidel?"
|
| There was no disagreement with my statements and without
hesitation,
| he replied, "Non-believers!"
|
| I responded, "So, let me make sure I have this straight.
All followers
| of Allah have been commanded to kill everyone who is not
of your faith
| so they can go to Heaven. Is that correct?"
|
| The expression on his face changed from one of authority
and command
| to that of a little boy who had just gotten caught with
his hand in
| the cookie jar. He sheepishly replied, "Yes."
|
| I then stated, "Well, sir, I have a real problem trying to
imagine
| Pope John Paul commanding all Catholics to kill those of
your faith
| or Dr. Stanley ordering Protestants to do the same in
order to go to
| Heaven!"
|
| The Imam was speechless.
|
| I continued, "I also have a problem with being your friend
when you
| and your brother clerics are telling your followers to
kill me. Let
| me ask you a question. Would you rather have your Allah
who tells you
| to kill me in order to go to Heaven or my Jesus who tells
me to love
| you because I am going to Heaven and He wants you to be
with me?"
|
| You could have heard a pin drop as the Imam hung his head
in shame.
| Needless to say, the organizers and/or promoters of the
| 'Diversification' training seminar were not happy with
Rick's way of
| dealing with the Islamic, Imam and exposing the truth
about the
| Muslim's beliefs.
|
| This is a true story and the author, Rick Mathes, is a
well-known
| leader in prison ministry.
|
| http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/allah.asp

[Bob Chilcoat]

Brilliant idea. Sounds like a perfect way to revive general aviation.
"Don't want to fly nude in a plastic bag? Learn to fly yourself in a spam
can."

Who's going to write Boyer?

--
Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways)


"Jim Macklin" > wrote in message
news:i%ndg.23771$ZW3.15935@dukeread04...
> That is why the passengers would be supplied with form
> generic zip lock body bags, they'd be thrown away after each
> use. So the lavatories could be removed, any bodily waste
> and fluids would be in the passenger identified bags. They
> could be checked for DNA to identify terrorists, to find
> smuggled drugs and as an extra service, to screen for all
> known diseases and birth defects.
> The zip lock bag would cover the head too, and have O2
> connection, this will make the passengers breathing air even
> more pure and if they get airsickness, the barf will be
> completely contained, no smell, no clean-up required.
>
> Privacy issues and modesty can be handled in two ways,
> either those concerned about their privacy will just have to
> wear a visual visor, like on Jordy (Star Trek NG) to show
> them a virtual world or they can just be blind folded and
> told they are alone.
>
> The zip lock bags could be printed with pretty pictures in
> strategic locations or just advertising...
>
> Hooters, where our breasts are finger licking good.
>
> Airport Annie's, all customers are first class. [That is a
> sign on a massage parlor on the Wichita Airport, in a city
> owned, rented building]
>
> Viagra, don't bust a zipper.
>
> Hefty, our passenger bags are the best. Used by more
> airlines than the other brands.
>
> Larry, The Cable Guy, now showing, don't laugh too hard or
> you'll fill your bag.
>
> Microsoft, the anti-Viagra.
>
> Feel like an astronaut, crap in your pants.
>
>
>
>
>
> "B A R R Y" > wrote in message
> . net...
> | Peter R. wrote:
> | > Jim Macklin >
> wrote:
> | >
> | >> Why not just require one of these actions...
> | >> All passengers must fly NUDE.
> | >
> | > The required amount of airsickness bags on each flight
> would then have to
> | > increase exponentially. :)
> | >
> |
> |
> | Think of all the dark strips on the seat cushion fabric...
>
>

[Jim Macklin]

If it were just that easy.


"Bob Chilcoat" > wrote in
message ...
| Brilliant idea. Sounds like a perfect way to revive
general aviation.
| "Don't want to fly nude in a plastic bag? Learn to fly
yourself in a spam
| can."
|
| Who's going to write Boyer?
|
| --
| Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways)
|
|
| "Jim Macklin" > wrote
in message
| news:i%ndg.23771$ZW3.15935@dukeread04...
| > That is why the passengers would be supplied with form
| > generic zip lock body bags, they'd be thrown away after
each
| > use. So the lavatories could be removed, any bodily
waste
| > and fluids would be in the passenger identified bags.
They
| > could be checked for DNA to identify terrorists, to find
| > smuggled drugs and as an extra service, to screen for
all
| > known diseases and birth defects.
| > The zip lock bag would cover the head too, and have O2
| > connection, this will make the passengers breathing air
even
| > more pure and if they get airsickness, the barf will be
| > completely contained, no smell, no clean-up required.
| >
| > Privacy issues and modesty can be handled in two ways,
| > either those concerned about their privacy will just
have to
| > wear a visual visor, like on Jordy (Star Trek NG) to
show
| > them a virtual world or they can just be blind folded
and
| > told they are alone.
| >
| > The zip lock bags could be printed with pretty pictures
in
| > strategic locations or just advertising...
| >
| > Hooters, where our breasts are finger licking good.
| >
| > Airport Annie's, all customers are first class. [That
is a
| > sign on a massage parlor on the Wichita Airport, in a
city
| > owned, rented building]
| >
| > Viagra, don't bust a zipper.
| >
| > Hefty, our passenger bags are the best. Used by more
| > airlines than the other brands.
| >
| > Larry, The Cable Guy, now showing, don't laugh too hard
or
| > you'll fill your bag.
| >
| > Microsoft, the anti-Viagra.
| >
| > Feel like an astronaut, crap in your pants.
| >
| >
| >
| >
| >
| > "B A R R Y" > wrote in message
| > . net...
| > | Peter R. wrote:
| > | > Jim Macklin >
| > wrote:
| > | >
| > | >> Why not just require one of these actions...
| > | >> All passengers must fly NUDE.
| > | >
| > | > The required amount of airsickness bags on each
flight
| > would then have to
| > | > increase exponentially. :)
| > | >
| > |
| > |
| > | Think of all the dark strips on the seat cushion
fabric...
| >
| >
|
|