Re: Self Serve Fuel Warning

[kontiki]

B A R R Y wrote:
> Those morons have a $150 hold on the account!

Let me provide some information regarding "holds" on X amount of $$
for credit card purchases. We have a self-serve pump also and about
once every couple of months someone calls me (after checking their
card data online) raising cain about some large amount of money on
their credit card account from our airport where they bought self
service fuel. Not once in any of those cases was it the fault of
the pump (or US - the airport).

The credit card company somehow dropped the ball and did not clear
the hold on the card. The solution is to simply call the credit card
company (customer service) and clear it up. You should have a receipt
for your purchase (for those that do not we always provide a duplicate
upon request).

I'd be willing to be money it is not the airport 'morons' fault.

[Jay Honeck]

> >I'd be willing to be money it is not the airport 'morons' fault.
>
> The hold placed by Sunoco, Citgo, and Mobil auto gas stations is a
> buck, as in $1. I'm sure the hold will clear in a few days and revert
> to the actual charge, they always do.

This makes no sense to me.

The only reason for any merchant to put a "hold" on ANY amount (or, as
we call it, a "pre-authorization") is to make sure that the users
credit/debit card is actually valid for the amount of the purchase.

Therefore, "pre-authorizing" $1 proves nothing -- especially with gas
purchases topping $75 - $100 a shot. Shoot, unless the card has been
revoked, ANYONE is going to be "okayed" for a buck -- and therefore
preauthorizing that amount simply is not worth the effort.

There must be more going on here.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Brien K. Meehan]

Jay Honeck wrote:
> There must be more going on here.

There is.

When you start the transaction, one of the questions most self-serve
aviation fuel pumps is "How many gallons?"

Many pilots enter a high number. Let's say, 50. This makes sense -
you want to get enough fuel.

The pre-authorization is then charged at 50 gallons times the cost per
gallon - about $200 at my local pump.

[Travis Marlatte]

What you describe is a typical scenario. What Jay was responding to was the
hold of just one dollar.

The only reason I can think of is that they are trying to verify the card
but be nice and not put a large pre-auth on the card. Sounds like a win-win
to me.

Maybe my bank is just very good, but I have never noticed a large pre-auth
surviving beyond the real purchase. It's more frequent that the pump won't
take my debit card at all.

-------------------------------
Travis
Lake N3094P
PWK

"Brien K. Meehan" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Jay Honeck wrote:
>> There must be more going on here.
>
> There is.
>
> When you start the transaction, one of the questions most self-serve
> aviation fuel pumps is "How many gallons?"
>
> Many pilots enter a high number. Let's say, 50. This makes sense -
> you want to get enough fuel.
>
> The pre-authorization is then charged at 50 gallons times the cost per
> gallon - about $200 at my local pump.
>

[John Clear]

In article >,
Travis Marlatte > wrote:
>What you describe is a typical scenario. What Jay was responding to was the
>hold of just one dollar.
>
>The only reason I can think of is that they are trying to verify the card
>but be nice and not put a large pre-auth on the card. Sounds like a win-win
>to me.

The gas station pre-auth of a buck is just to verify the card if
good. They probably do enough transactions when the occasional
full transaction is declined for being over the limit, it isn't a
huge deal. Some of the local gas stations have started asking for
zip code as a verification that the card isn't stolen, since the
pay at the pump is a good way to verify if a stolen card is good[1].

John
[1] I've been called by my credit card company several times after
filling up at a pay at the pump, and then making a large purchase
just after that (gas, then groceries).
--
John Clear - http://www.clear-prop.org/

[Jessica]

Jay Honeck wrote:

> > >I'd be willing to be money it is not the airport 'morons' fault.
> >
> > The hold placed by Sunoco, Citgo, and Mobil auto gas stations is a
> > buck, as in $1. I'm sure the hold will clear in a few days and revert
> > to the actual charge, they always do.
>
> This makes no sense to me.
>
> The only reason for any merchant to put a "hold" on ANY amount (or, as
> we call it, a "pre-authorization") is to make sure that the users
> credit/debit card is actually valid for the amount of the purchase.

If one must use debit, another option would be to use Online debit
(PIN-Based). When a PIN is used only the exact amount is withdrawn, and it
is done almost instantly. There are no preauthorizations, no holds, no
settlements several days down the road. You get what you get in real time.


>
>
> Therefore, "pre-authorizing" $1 proves nothing -- especially with gas
> purchases topping $75 - $100 a shot. Shoot, unless the card has been
> revoked, ANYONE is going to be "okayed" for a buck -- and therefore
> preauthorizing that amount simply is not worth the effort.
>
> There must be more going on here.

Gas stations realize that the biggest risk is that the card is not valid at
all. If it is valid for a dollar it is almost certainly valid for $50 or
whatever the average transaction is. (Heck even if someone was near their
limit, most credit card companies (and debit) would allow the transaction to
go over by a lot more than that anyway so that they can collect either the
Over-the-credit-limit fee or the Overdraft fee.)

They accept the tiny risk that a $1 card may not work for a larger
transaction because it far better than to have to deal with customers
complaining about large sums held. And if it didn't work, well they have
cameras over the pumps. :) A friend of mine tried to buy gas one day, slid
his debit card thru and it just said Authorizing..... He waited and waited
and finally went inside to tell them. Frustrated he left and refilled at
another station. Guess what? He got charged for gas by the first station
too. After giving him the runaround (and the credit union claiming they
were investigating for weeks) he was very persistent with the oil co. and
finally got a tidy settlement.

[Cub Driver]

On 29 May 2006 14:21:07 -0700, "Jay Honeck" >
wrote:

>The only reason for any merchant to put a "hold" on ANY amount (or, as
>we call it, a "pre-authorization") is to make sure that the users
>credit/debit card is actually valid for the amount of the purchase..

Well, no, sometimes a vendor just wants to know that the credit card
is good.

That said, I've never seen a pre-authorization for a dollar, always
the amount of the purchase rounded off (most recently, $37).


-- all the best, Dan Ford

email: usenet AT danford DOT net

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com

[Jay Honeck]

> If one must use debit, another option would be to use Online debit
> (PIN-Based). When a PIN is used only the exact amount is withdrawn, and
> it
> is done almost instantly. There are no preauthorizations, no holds, no
> settlements several days down the road. You get what you get in real
> time.

Quite true.

Re: Hotels. The BEST way to do things is to make your hotel reservation
(either on-line or on the phone) using your *credit* card. Then pay for
the room/suite with your *debit* card, using the PIN.

By doing so, you still get to pay with "cash" (no debt), and your available
balance on your debit card hasn't been tied up with a $140 (or whatever)
pre-authorization.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[B A R R Y]

Jay Honeck wrote:
>
> By doing so, you still get to pay with "cash" (no debt), and your available
> balance on your debit card hasn't been tied up with a $140 (or whatever)
> pre-authorization.

FWIW, you can still use a standard credit card without debt or interest.

I maintain a written monthly budget using Quicken. Our paychecks are
direct deposited to a credit union savings account. Each credit card
transaction is deducted from the budget immediately via automatic
download each time I start Quicken. We use the credit card for
EVERYTHING, including my monthly utility, insurance, and other bills
that are automatically billed to the card. I have a standing automatic
payment for the minimum payment due, so I can't "forget" to pay and
incur ridiculous late fees. I manually pay the entire balance each
month, as the money is always available, because the charges have
already been accounted for against available cash.

Last year, we cashed in almost $800 in free gift cards, including some
that are Visa logo, so they're good anywhere Visa is accepted. In
addition to the mileage earned, I'd much rather have automatic payments
go against the card, instead of my checking account, in case of errors.
I once received a $3500 cell phone bill when my phone was cloned.

For those that will point out that people spend more because I'm not
using green cash, that's exactly what the written budget is for. We
can't spend what we don't have. We do the same with retirement savings,
depositing it before we ever touch it. <G>

[Jessica]

B A R R Y wrote:

> Jay Honeck wrote:
> >
> > By doing so, you still get to pay with "cash" (no debt), and your available
> > balance on your debit card hasn't been tied up with a $140 (or whatever)
> > pre-authorization.
>
> FWIW, you can still use a standard credit card without debt or interest.

Of course. But so what?

>
>
> I maintain a written monthly budget using Quicken. Our paychecks are
> direct deposited to a credit union savings account. Each credit card
> transaction is deducted from the budget immediately via automatic
> download each time I start Quicken. We use the credit card for
> EVERYTHING, including my monthly utility, insurance, and other bills
> that are automatically billed to the card. I have a standing automatic
> payment for the minimum payment due, so I can't "forget" to pay and
> incur ridiculous late fees. I manually pay the entire balance each
> month, as the money is always available, because the charges have
> already been accounted for against available cash.
>
> Last year, we cashed in almost $800 in free gift cards, including some
> that are Visa logo, so they're good anywhere Visa is accepted. In
> addition to the mileage earned, I'd much rather have automatic payments
> go against the card, instead of my checking account, in case of errors.
> I once received a $3500 cell phone bill when my phone was cloned.
>
> For those that will point out that people spend more because I'm not
> using green cash, that's exactly what the written budget is for. We
> can't spend what we don't have. We do the same with retirement savings,
> depositing it before we ever touch it. <G>

That's great, I guess-- you sound like a Visa commercial. But except for paying
Intuit's extortion every year or two to constantly upgrade their bloated product
so that it will still operate, doesn't just about everyone normal do something
similar?

[Jessica]

Jay Honeck wrote:

> > If one must use debit, another option would be to use Online debit
> > (PIN-Based). When a PIN is used only the exact amount is withdrawn, and
> > it
> > is done almost instantly. There are no preauthorizations, no holds, no
> > settlements several days down the road. You get what you get in real
> > time.
>
> Quite true.
>
> Re: Hotels. The BEST way to do things is to make your hotel reservation
> (either on-line or on the phone) using your *credit* card. Then pay for
> the room/suite with your *debit* card, using the PIN.
>
> By doing so, you still get to pay with "cash" (no debt), and your available
> balance on your debit card hasn't been tied up with a $140 (or whatever)
> pre-authorization.

Plus it makes the friendly local inn-keeper happier and more able to keep
prices down because the transaction fees for online debit is almost nothing
compared to offline debit/credit cards, especially if the transaction is
sizable. :)

[B A R R Y]

Jessica wrote:
>
> That's great, I guess-- you sound like a Visa commercial. But except for paying
> Intuit's extortion every year or two to constantly upgrade their bloated product
> so that it will still operate, doesn't just about everyone normal do something
> similar?
>


Not if you look at the number of folks who don't pay balances off.

FWIW, I buy TurboTax every year, and end up with the latest version of
Quicken and TT for $20-$25, using Staples sale prices and Intuit's silly
rebates.

[Ron Natalie]

B A R R Y wrote:
> On Mon, 29 May 2006 17:26:12 GMT, kontiki >
> wrote:
>> I'd be willing to be money it is not the airport 'morons' fault.
>
> The hold placed by Sunoco, Citgo, and Mobil auto gas stations is a
> buck, as in $1. I'm sure the hold will clear in a few days and revert
> to the actual charge, they always do. I'm not worried about
> eventually paying the correct amount, I won't have to pay it until
> next month.
>
Gas stations preauthorize a buck just to make sure the account is
there if you ask for a "fill up". They then will allow you to pump
a certain amount of fuel that they decide. I had a nice discussion
with a bankcard security guy on this.

[Morgans]

"Ron Natalie" > wrote

> Gas stations preauthorize a buck just to make sure the account is
> there if you ask for a "fill up". They then will allow you to pump
> a certain amount of fuel that they decide. I had a nice discussion
> with a bankcard security guy on this.

I have a real problem with gas stations that have a cut-off dollar amount on
the credit card fill-ups.

I have a work van that has a 31.5 gallon tank. It is not unusual for me to
run it down low enough to put in 30 gallons. At 2.749, that is $82.47. I
have found that many gas stations shut off the pump at unreasonably low
amounts.

I would much rather they put 100 bucks on reserve, and let me buy all of the
dang gas I want to buy!
--
Jim in NC

[Jay Honeck]

> I have a work van that has a 31.5 gallon tank. It is not unusual for me
> to run it down low enough to put in 30 gallons. At 2.749, that is $82.47.
> I have found that many gas stations shut off the pump at unreasonably low
> amounts.

Piker. Try filling the Mighty Grape nowadays...to the tune of $150+...

:-(

Luckily, our gas station recognizes the vehicle, and lets the pump run, and
run, and run....
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Bob Noel]

In article <Edfhg.19952$1i1.7997@attbi_s72>,
"Jay Honeck" > wrote:

> Piker. Try filling the Mighty Grape nowadays...to the tune of $150+...

fillup your goldwing to achieve balance.

--
Bob Noel
Looking for a sig the
lawyers will hate

[Morgans]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote

Piker. Try filling the Mighty Grape nowadays...to the tune of $150+...
>
> :-(
>
> Luckily, our gas station recognizes the vehicle, and lets the pump run,
> and run, and run....

Do you use the go in and pay option, or do you just scan the card at the
pump?
--
Jim in NC