engine failure

[swag]

I recently acquired a 1973 P337 Skymaster and had a bit of trouble with
it on a flight to New Jersey when I lost an engine enroute. I left
Magnolia Arkansas in the morning and flew to Knoxville for lunch and
refueling, then on to CDW --Essex County, New Jersey. Over Allentown,
I noticed fluctuations in manifold pressure on the front engine and
rough operation. The EGT and cylinder head temps were fine, but my oil
pressure was down to nothing, so I shut down the engine and feathered
the prop. I called ATC and let them know. Then I flew the plane on
towards CDW keeping a close eye on the rear engine guages. Since the
engine is turbocharged, I had no trouble holding altitude on one engine
and therefore decided to continue to my destination (about 15 min
more). When I arrived at CDW, they had men and equipment waiting and
let me use whatever runway I wanted. I chose 22, entered a right
downwind, and put my gear down. But it wouldn't go down. So I circled
and pumped it down. Then no gear light came on. I tried to call the
tower, but I had lost all electrical. (Hence the gear light failure).
So I lined up on final and landed the plane.

The mechanic at CDW looked everything over the next day and reported
the front engine had blown an oil seal for one of the cylinders, and
the rear engine's alternator was bad. In addition he said the fuel
line to the rear engine had eroded through and there was a gas leak in
the rear engine compartment. He noticed this because of a leak of gas
on the hanger floor. I swear there was no leakage of gas under the
plane prior to the trip. So I had three systems fail in one leg of the
trip.

The plane was one month new to me. I had 30 hours on it since
purchasing it and had fortunately practiced single engine landings and
manual gear extension. For 30 hours there was no excessive oil
consumption or leaks or ther signs of trouble. So it's hard to blame
the mechanics who worked on it last. Just fate I guess.

[three-eight-hotel]

Glad to hear you were able to land safely! That second engine sure can
come in handy, in a pinch, ehhh?

Best Regards,
Todd

[Jay Honeck]

> The plane was one month new to me. I had 30 hours on it since
> purchasing it and had fortunately practiced single engine landings and
> manual gear extension. For 30 hours there was no excessive oil
> consumption or leaks or ther signs of trouble. So it's hard to blame
> the mechanics who worked on it last. Just fate I guess.

Crikey! Three separate systems failed during a single flight?

Either the odds played out against you in the worst way possible, or the
folks who did your pre-buy inspection missed a bunch of stuff.

Glad you made it down okay...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[swag]

Well I must confess that I didn't get a pre buy inspection. The plane
had just gone through an annual, and I went over the plane with the
shop that did the annual (St Cloud Aviation). Maybe this speaks to the
value of a pre buy, although I have a hard time believing they could
find something that was "about" to fail.

Jay Honeck wrote:
> > The plane was one month new to me. I had 30 hours on it since
> > purchasing it and had fortunately practiced single engine landings and
> > manual gear extension. For 30 hours there was no excessive oil
> > consumption or leaks or ther signs of trouble. So it's hard to blame
> > the mechanics who worked on it last. Just fate I guess.
>
> Crikey! Three separate systems failed during a single flight?
>
> Either the odds played out against you in the worst way possible, or the
> folks who did your pre-buy inspection missed a bunch of stuff.
>
> Glad you made it down okay...
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"

[[email protected]]

Jay Honeck wrote:
>
> Crikey! Three separate systems failed during a single flight?
>
> Either the odds played out against you in the worst way possible, or the
> folks who did your pre-buy inspection missed a bunch of stuff.


Knowing how they build in redundancies in aircraft (which would pale
the best HAZOP study), the odds are very heavily on the latter.

Nice ending to what could easily have gotten a lot worse.

Ramapriya

[C. Massey]

"swag" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Well I must confess that I didn't get a pre buy inspection. The plane
> had just gone through an annual, and I went over the plane with the
> shop that did the annual (St Cloud Aviation). Maybe this speaks to the
> value of a pre buy, although I have a hard time believing they could
> find something that was "about" to fail.
>

<snip>


There are plenty of things that they could find that are ""about" to
fail"...




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[Aluckyguess]

Wow! That was a interesting flight. I don't think I would tell the wife.

[Gig 601XL Builder]

I'm glad you made it ok. As said here that second engine is nice to have
around. Since you mentioned you left Magnolia Arkansas and that is only
about 30 miles from me (ELD) I'm wondering is the plane originally from
around here and was your pre-buy done by anyone from around here.


"swag" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>I recently acquired a 1973 P337 Skymaster and had a bit of trouble with
> it on a flight to New Jersey when I lost an engine enroute. I left
> Magnolia Arkansas in the morning and flew to Knoxville for lunch and
> refueling, then on to CDW --Essex County, New Jersey. Over Allentown,
> I noticed fluctuations in manifold pressure on the front engine and
> rough operation. The EGT and cylinder head temps were fine, but my oil
> pressure was down to nothing, so I shut down the engine and feathered
> the prop. I called ATC and let them know. Then I flew the plane on
> towards CDW keeping a close eye on the rear engine guages. Since the
> engine is turbocharged, I had no trouble holding altitude on one engine
> and therefore decided to continue to my destination (about 15 min
> more). When I arrived at CDW, they had men and equipment waiting and
> let me use whatever runway I wanted. I chose 22, entered a right
> downwind, and put my gear down. But it wouldn't go down. So I circled
> and pumped it down. Then no gear light came on. I tried to call the
> tower, but I had lost all electrical. (Hence the gear light failure).
> So I lined up on final and landed the plane.
>
> The mechanic at CDW looked everything over the next day and reported
> the front engine had blown an oil seal for one of the cylinders, and
> the rear engine's alternator was bad. In addition he said the fuel
> line to the rear engine had eroded through and there was a gas leak in
> the rear engine compartment. He noticed this because of a leak of gas
> on the hanger floor. I swear there was no leakage of gas under the
> plane prior to the trip. So I had three systems fail in one leg of the
> trip.
>
> The plane was one month new to me. I had 30 hours on it since
> purchasing it and had fortunately practiced single engine landings and
> manual gear extension. For 30 hours there was no excessive oil
> consumption or leaks or ther signs of trouble. So it's hard to blame
> the mechanics who worked on it last. Just fate I guess.
>

[Capt.Doug]

>"swag" wrote in message
> I recently acquired a 1973 P337 Skymaster and had a bit of trouble with
> it on a flight to New Jersey when I lost an engine enroute.

I had a C-337 once. I never could get the rear alternator to work for more
than an hour (Both engines can be hand-propped, but the front engine is a
bit more of as pain). I had a fuel injection spider line break on the rear
engine which caused the engine to shutdown sooner than I expected due to
fuel exhaustion. In hindsight I wondered when I would have detected a fire
on that rear engine if it had caught fire. The gear system is a CF. After
the second indicator problem, I just flew around with the gear down. The
cabin is small and noisy. The fly-over noise is loud. I got rid of it and
bought another Aztec.

D.

[swag]

I'm happy with the noise level (P337) and not dissatisfied with the
cabin size. You're right about not ever knowing until too late if the
rear engine catches on fire. I may have to get rid of this if I ever
want my wife to get in a small plane again. She has sworn off ever
setting foot in this one.

Capt.Doug wrote:
> >"swag" wrote in message
> > I recently acquired a 1973 P337 Skymaster and had a bit of trouble with
> > it on a flight to New Jersey when I lost an engine enroute.
>
> I had a C-337 once. I never could get the rear alternator to work for more
> than an hour (Both engines can be hand-propped, but the front engine is a
> bit more of as pain). I had a fuel injection spider line break on the rear
> engine which caused the engine to shutdown sooner than I expected due to
> fuel exhaustion. In hindsight I wondered when I would have detected a fire
> on that rear engine if it had caught fire. The gear system is a CF. After
> the second indicator problem, I just flew around with the gear down. The
> cabin is small and noisy. The fly-over noise is loud. I got rid of it and
> bought another Aztec.
>
> D.

[swag]

too late, and you're right--it was a mistake
Aluckyguess wrote:
> Wow! That was a interesting flight. I don't think I would tell the wife.

[Dylan Smith]

On 2006-06-07, Capt.Doug > wrote:
> cabin is small and noisy. The fly-over noise is loud. I got rid of it and
> bought another Aztec.

You can say that again. We have a C337 up at our airfield now, and the
noise complaints are coming. The owner had to move from his own land
because he was generating excessive noise complaints (it doesn't help
that he flies in a rather unneighbourly manner - advancing the props to
fine on downwind and directly overflying noise sensitive areas that are
easy to avoid).

--
Yes, the Reply-To email address is valid.
Oolite-Linux: an Elite tribute: http://oolite-linux.berlios.de

[swag]

The second engine is very handy, and I like the in-line aspect, at
least in this case.

One interesting thing about this emergency--my autopilot wouldn't work
after the electrical failure, so I had to pump the gear down and fly
the plane at the same time. When the gear came out, the increased drag
caused a loss of airspeed, and I dropped below "blue line" for a short
while. That's not really a problem in the 337, but if I had been in a
conventional light twin, that might have been disastrous. I found it
hard to manually fly the plane, holding course, altitude, airspeed, etc
and bend over and pump the gear down at the same time.

three-eight-hotel wrote:
> Glad to hear you were able to land safely! That second engine sure can
> come in handy, in a pinch, ehhh?
>
> Best Regards,
> Todd

[Dylan Smith]

On 2006-06-08, swag > wrote:
> caused a loss of airspeed, and I dropped below "blue line" for a short
> while. That's not really a problem in the 337, but if I had been in a
> conventional light twin, that might have been disastrous.

Dropping below blue line in a conventional twin has exactly the same
consequences as dropping below blue line in a C337. I think you are
thinking about red line (which is something a C337 won't have)

--
Yes, the Reply-To email address is valid.
Oolite-Linux: an Elite tribute: http://oolite-linux.berlios.de

[Frank Ch. Eigler]

"swag" > writes:

> [...] When the gear came out, the increased drag caused a loss of
> airspeed, and I dropped below "blue line" for a short while. That's
> not really a problem in the 337, but if I had been in a conventional
> light twin, that might have been disastrous. [...]

You are probably mixing up the red (Vmc) & blue (Vyse) lines. Still,
neither is that bad if one has some altitude to spare and avoids being
hamfisted with the throttle.

- FChE

[Jim Macklin]

The landing gear doors on the C337 and the C210 models with
doors, open like big flat plate air-brakes. The gear is
best left down and locked if you have an engine failure
below 500 feet.




--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

"Frank Ch. Eigler" > wrote in message
...
|
| "swag" > writes:
|
| > [...] When the gear came out, the increased drag caused
a loss of
| > airspeed, and I dropped below "blue line" for a short
while. That's
| > not really a problem in the 337, but if I had been in a
conventional
| > light twin, that might have been disastrous. [...]
|
| You are probably mixing up the red (Vmc) & blue (Vyse)
lines. Still,
| neither is that bad if one has some altitude to spare and
avoids being
| hamfisted with the throttle.
|
| - FChE

[swag]

you're right about the def's of blue line and red line. I guess I was
just trying to make the point that pumping the gear down in the pattern
adds another potential problem to the scenario that might be magnified
by off center thrust. It would feel more comfortable to be above
pattern altitude, but I didn't feel like I had the luxury to climb and
take my time. I probably did...but my fuel guages went to zero when I
lost electrical, and although I "knew" I had over 40 gallons of fuel
left, I was really too nervous about everything to choose the best
course of action-- which would have been to circle up over the airport
to maybe 3000 agl and then pump the gear down. (If my fuel guages were
right and a bad fuel leak had developed I would still be ok if I was in
gliding distance of the airport)

Frank Ch. Eigler wrote:
> "swag" > writes:
>
> > [...] When the gear came out, the increased drag caused a loss of
> > airspeed, and I dropped below "blue line" for a short while. That's
> > not really a problem in the 337, but if I had been in a conventional
> > light twin, that might have been disastrous. [...]
>
> You are probably mixing up the red (Vmc) & blue (Vyse) lines. Still,
> neither is that bad if one has some altitude to spare and avoids being
> hamfisted with the throttle.
>
> - FChE