Gear up landings can happen to ANYONE...

[[email protected]]

http://www.sftt.us/cgi-bin/csNews/csNews.cgi?database=Unlisted.db&command=viewone&id=41

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1629804/posts

[Matt Whiting]

wrote:

> http://www.sftt.us/cgi-bin/csNews/csNews.cgi?database=Unlisted.db&command=viewone&id=41
>
> http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1629804/posts

Yes, I've been flying a retractable for only two years now and am
paranoid about making a gear-up landing. It can obviously happen to anyone.


Matt

[cjcampbell]

wrote:
> http://www.sftt.us/cgi-bin/csNews/csNews.cgi?database=Unlisted.db&command=viewone&id=41
>
> http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1629804/posts

If experience teaches us anything, it is that any accident can happen
to anyone. All it takes is a moment's distraction, a little
over-confidence, or an unusual lapse of judgment. No one is immune.

Experience also teaches us that some people are far more likely to be
distracted, over-confident, or exercise poor judgment than others.

[george]

Not me.
It's down and bolted :-)))))))

[Dudley Henriques]

"Matt Whiting" > wrote in message
...
> wrote:
>
>> http://www.sftt.us/cgi-bin/csNews/csNews.cgi?database=Unlisted.db&command=viewone&id=41
>>
>> http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1629804/posts
>
> Yes, I've been flying a retractable for only two years now and am paranoid
> about making a gear-up landing. It can obviously happen to anyone.
>
>
> Matt

You're right, and the way to approach this issue is by realizing exactly
this, then setting up a personal regimen for a pre-landing cross-check that
is deliberately formated to be an exact final cross check procedure executed
the same way as a habit pattern every time you fly.
There are many of these axioms in use, and every pilot has his/her own
favorite. It doesn't matter which one is used, as long as it's used exactly
the same way every time you fly and at the same place in the approach every
time. This has to become an ingrained habit pattern.
My own personal cross check in ADDITION to the required regular pre-landing
checklists, and the one I taught for years to every pilot I trained was the
following; done on final.
This cross check was always said aloud and each item had to be touched and
verified as it was spoken.
"All good pilots must land fine check"
Each word was spoken individually as it was checked
All: Altimeter
Good; Gas
Pilots; Prop
Must; Mixture
Land; Landing Gear
Fine; Flaps
Check; Carb Heat (if applicable)
50 years in retracts. No wheels up landings :-)))
Dudley Henriques

[Matt Whiting]

Dudley Henriques wrote:

> "Matt Whiting" > wrote in message
> ...
>
wrote:
>>
>>
>>>http://www.sftt.us/cgi-bin/csNews/csNews.cgi?database=Unlisted.db&command=viewone&id=41
>>>
>>>http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1629804/posts
>>
>>Yes, I've been flying a retractable for only two years now and am paranoid
>>about making a gear-up landing. It can obviously happen to anyone.
>>
>>
>>Matt
>
>
> You're right, and the way to approach this issue is by realizing exactly
> this, then setting up a personal regimen for a pre-landing cross-check that
> is deliberately formated to be an exact final cross check procedure executed
> the same way as a habit pattern every time you fly.
> There are many of these axioms in use, and every pilot has his/her own
> favorite. It doesn't matter which one is used, as long as it's used exactly
> the same way every time you fly and at the same place in the approach every
> time. This has to become an ingrained habit pattern.
> My own personal cross check in ADDITION to the required regular pre-landing
> checklists, and the one I taught for years to every pilot I trained was the
> following; done on final.
> This cross check was always said aloud and each item had to be touched and
> verified as it was spoken.
> "All good pilots must land fine check"
> Each word was spoken individually as it was checked
> All: Altimeter
> Good; Gas
> Pilots; Prop
> Must; Mixture
> Land; Landing Gear
> Fine; Flaps
> Check; Carb Heat (if applicable)
> 50 years in retracts. No wheels up landings :-)))

I use the GUMPS check, but as you say, the important thing is to do the
same thing every time, no matter what the circumstances. This is
obviously easy to say, and easy to do assuming no distractions of any
substance. My concern is distractions.

I run the GUMPS check on downwind, after completing the turn to base and
after completing the turn to final. I then do one more check right
before crossing the runway threshold: I look at the runway lights and
say "lights, lights." Which is when I see the runway lights I double
check the gear lights. Takes just a second and it is one last reminder
to check.

I hope my two years becomes your 50 years! Although, I likely won't
hold a medical long enough for that to happen as I was mid-40s when I
first flew a retractable.


Matt

[Dudley Henriques]

About distraction and the cross check;
It's for this exact reason we do the cross check.
Distraction is something that every instructor working in the complex
environment should be dealing with from the first hour of dual with a pilot
moving up into complex aircraft. In fact, it's SO important, it should be
treated as a formal step into the complex checkout scenario.

The way the instructor handles this single issue will either produce a pilot
who has a habit pattern that will stay with him/her the rest of their flying
days, or simply one more pilot pushed through the complex checkout stage who
is a gear up landing waiting to happen. The role of the complex check pilot
is CRITICAL in creating this habit pattern in the pilot being trained.

The way it's handled will of course vary from instructor to instructor.

I suggest introducing the issue of distraction during the FIRST dual session
with a complex transition pilot; first stressing it's existence and dangers
in the retract gear environment in the multi-task scenario, then stressing
the need for the gear cross check on final.
Now this seems normal enough at first glance, and naturally every instructor
will do this.
But wait........there's more to creating a habit pattern in a pilot then the
first step!!!!!!!

Usually at this point, this information is simply digested by the trainee as
one more thing to remember, but the seed is planted. The next stage is
critical. Just planting the seed for a needed habit pattern is not nearly
enough, and this unfortunately is where many complex instructors fumble the
ball.
On EVERY FLIGHT with a complex trainee, before the flight, during the
flight, and after the flight, the need for the cross check on final should
be RE-INTRODUCED by the instructor. In other words, this single facet of a
complex checkout should be repeated on each flight several times. By doing
this, the CONSTANT REPETITION of a single item becomes ingrained as a
conditioned mental reflex that will function in a distraction environment.
Also, one more thing on distraction;
The cross check is SO important, and SO critical, that the way it should be
taught is that ANYTHING causing a break in the cross check requires a
RECHECK of the cross check itself!!.
The end result of all this is hopefully a pilot with a highly trained mental
trigger concerning his/her final cross check who will be on final and half
way through the final pre landing cross check as a distraction occurs. The
pilot will AUTOMATICALLY handle the distraction, then REDO the final cross
check.

If you train yourself to this level of awareness about your final cross
check, you should be just fine in the complex environment.
One additional thing; your "concern" about making a gear up landing is
actually a desired result of proper training for a complex pilot. It's this
"concern" that defines the edge that triggers the cross check.
So relax......you're perfectly normal!! :-)))))))
Dudley Henriques

Dudley Henriques




"Matt Whiting" > wrote in message
...
> Dudley Henriques wrote:
>
>> "Matt Whiting" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>http://www.sftt.us/cgi-bin/csNews/csNews.cgi?database=Unlisted.db&command=viewone&id=41
>>>>
>>>>http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1629804/posts
>>>
>>>Yes, I've been flying a retractable for only two years now and am
>>>paranoid about making a gear-up landing. It can obviously happen to
>>>anyone.
>>>
>>>
>>>Matt
>>
>>
>> You're right, and the way to approach this issue is by realizing exactly
>> this, then setting up a personal regimen for a pre-landing cross-check
>> that is deliberately formated to be an exact final cross check procedure
>> executed the same way as a habit pattern every time you fly.
>> There are many of these axioms in use, and every pilot has his/her own
>> favorite. It doesn't matter which one is used, as long as it's used
>> exactly the same way every time you fly and at the same place in the
>> approach every time. This has to become an ingrained habit pattern.
>> My own personal cross check in ADDITION to the required regular
>> pre-landing checklists, and the one I taught for years to every pilot I
>> trained was the following; done on final.
>> This cross check was always said aloud and each item had to be touched
>> and verified as it was spoken.
>> "All good pilots must land fine check"
>> Each word was spoken individually as it was checked
>> All: Altimeter
>> Good; Gas
>> Pilots; Prop
>> Must; Mixture
>> Land; Landing Gear
>> Fine; Flaps
>> Check; Carb Heat (if applicable)
>> 50 years in retracts. No wheels up landings :-)))
>
> I use the GUMPS check, but as you say, the important thing is to do the
> same thing every time, no matter what the circumstances. This is
> obviously easy to say, and easy to do assuming no distractions of any
> substance. My concern is distractions.
>
> I run the GUMPS check on downwind, after completing the turn to base and
> after completing the turn to final. I then do one more check right before
> crossing the runway threshold: I look at the runway lights and say
> "lights, lights." Which is when I see the runway lights I double check
> the gear lights. Takes just a second and it is one last reminder to
> check.
>
> I hope my two years becomes your 50 years! Although, I likely won't hold
> a medical long enough for that to happen as I was mid-40s when I first
> flew a retractable.
>
>
> Matt

[[email protected]]

Dudley Henriques wrote:
[wonderful response to gear up comments snipped]

Dudley,

This kind of gem is why I wish you were still instructing (in my neck
of the woods). Of course, you are still instructing on usenet, I just
learned something.

John Stevens
PP-ASEL

[Dudley Henriques]

Thank you. Appreciate you taking the time.
Dudley


> wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> Dudley Henriques wrote:
> [wonderful response to gear up comments snipped]
>
> Dudley,
>
> This kind of gem is why I wish you were still instructing (in my neck
> of the woods). Of course, you are still instructing on usenet, I just
> learned something.
>
> John Stevens
> PP-ASEL
>

[Robert M. Gary]

Yea, talk about distractions, there was a Learjet gear up recently at
Sacramento Executive. The pilot said he got distracted looking for a
helicopter.
-Robert

Matt Whiting wrote:
> Dudley Henriques wrote:
>
> > "Matt Whiting" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >
> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>http://www.sftt.us/cgi-bin/csNews/csNews.cgi?database=Unlisted.db&command=viewone&id=41
> >>>
> >>>http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1629804/posts
> >>
> >>Yes, I've been flying a retractable for only two years now and am paranoid
> >>about making a gear-up landing. It can obviously happen to anyone.
> >>
> >>
> >>Matt
> >
> >
> > You're right, and the way to approach this issue is by realizing exactly
> > this, then setting up a personal regimen for a pre-landing cross-check that
> > is deliberately formated to be an exact final cross check procedure executed
> > the same way as a habit pattern every time you fly.
> > There are many of these axioms in use, and every pilot has his/her own
> > favorite. It doesn't matter which one is used, as long as it's used exactly
> > the same way every time you fly and at the same place in the approach every
> > time. This has to become an ingrained habit pattern.
> > My own personal cross check in ADDITION to the required regular pre-landing
> > checklists, and the one I taught for years to every pilot I trained was the
> > following; done on final.
> > This cross check was always said aloud and each item had to be touched and
> > verified as it was spoken.
> > "All good pilots must land fine check"
> > Each word was spoken individually as it was checked
> > All: Altimeter
> > Good; Gas
> > Pilots; Prop
> > Must; Mixture
> > Land; Landing Gear
> > Fine; Flaps
> > Check; Carb Heat (if applicable)
> > 50 years in retracts. No wheels up landings :-)))
>
> I use the GUMPS check, but as you say, the important thing is to do the
> same thing every time, no matter what the circumstances. This is
> obviously easy to say, and easy to do assuming no distractions of any
> substance. My concern is distractions.
>
> I run the GUMPS check on downwind, after completing the turn to base and
> after completing the turn to final. I then do one more check right
> before crossing the runway threshold: I look at the runway lights and
> say "lights, lights." Which is when I see the runway lights I double
> check the gear lights. Takes just a second and it is one last reminder
> to check.
>
> I hope my two years becomes your 50 years! Although, I likely won't
> hold a medical long enough for that to happen as I was mid-40s when I
> first flew a retractable.
>
>
> Matt

[Ben Jackson]

On 2006-06-08, Dudley Henriques > wrote:
> the need for the gear cross check on final.

Is anyone aware of any techniques for stopping the gear cross check after
the plane is put away in the hangar and you're driving home? I still find
myself thinking, "Oh my god, did I put the gear down for that landing?"
when I'm a few miles away from the airport in my car...

--
Ben Jackson
>
http://www.ben.com/

[Dudley Henriques]

Are you married?
This is a syndrome common to the married male pilot. It usually begins on
the way home from a trip to the store where the wife of the pilot has giving
him a list of items to bring home.
The symtoms involve the car having to be waiting for a light to change half
way home ; fingers gently tapping on the top of the steering wheel; and
thoughts of a wife looking at the pilot in disbelief as she tells him.
"I can't BELIEVE you went to the store and forgot the ONE item I REALLY
needed!"
If this has happened to you, don't worry. You're normal like the rest of us
:-)
Dudley Henriques

"Ben Jackson" > wrote in message
...
> On 2006-06-08, Dudley Henriques > wrote:
>> the need for the gear cross check on final.
>
> Is anyone aware of any techniques for stopping the gear cross check after
> the plane is put away in the hangar and you're driving home? I still find
> myself thinking, "Oh my god, did I put the gear down for that landing?"
> when I'm a few miles away from the airport in my car...
>
> --
> Ben Jackson
> >
> http://www.ben.com/

[Matt Whiting]

Dudley Henriques wrote:

> About distraction and the cross check;
> It's for this exact reason we do the cross check.
> Distraction is something that every instructor working in the complex
> environment should be dealing with from the first hour of dual with a pilot
> moving up into complex aircraft. In fact, it's SO important, it should be
> treated as a formal step into the complex checkout scenario.
>
> The way the instructor handles this single issue will either produce a pilot
> who has a habit pattern that will stay with him/her the rest of their flying
> days, or simply one more pilot pushed through the complex checkout stage who
> is a gear up landing waiting to happen. The role of the complex check pilot
> is CRITICAL in creating this habit pattern in the pilot being trained.
>
> The way it's handled will of course vary from instructor to instructor.
>
> I suggest introducing the issue of distraction during the FIRST dual session
> with a complex transition pilot; first stressing it's existence and dangers
> in the retract gear environment in the multi-task scenario, then stressing
> the need for the gear cross check on final.
> Now this seems normal enough at first glance, and naturally every instructor
> will do this.
> But wait........there's more to creating a habit pattern in a pilot then the
> first step!!!!!!!
>
> Usually at this point, this information is simply digested by the trainee as
> one more thing to remember, but the seed is planted. The next stage is
> critical. Just planting the seed for a needed habit pattern is not nearly
> enough, and this unfortunately is where many complex instructors fumble the
> ball.
> On EVERY FLIGHT with a complex trainee, before the flight, during the
> flight, and after the flight, the need for the cross check on final should
> be RE-INTRODUCED by the instructor. In other words, this single facet of a
> complex checkout should be repeated on each flight several times. By doing
> this, the CONSTANT REPETITION of a single item becomes ingrained as a
> conditioned mental reflex that will function in a distraction environment.
> Also, one more thing on distraction;
> The cross check is SO important, and SO critical, that the way it should be
> taught is that ANYTHING causing a break in the cross check requires a
> RECHECK of the cross check itself!!.
> The end result of all this is hopefully a pilot with a highly trained mental
> trigger concerning his/her final cross check who will be on final and half
> way through the final pre landing cross check as a distraction occurs. The
> pilot will AUTOMATICALLY handle the distraction, then REDO the final cross
> check.
>
> If you train yourself to this level of awareness about your final cross
> check, you should be just fine in the complex environment.
> One additional thing; your "concern" about making a gear up landing is
> actually a desired result of proper training for a complex pilot. It's this
> "concern" that defines the edge that triggers the cross check.
> So relax......you're perfectly normal!! :-)))))))
> Dudley Henriques

I've been fortunate to have had three instructors (primary, instrument
and retractable check-out) who not only taught the above, they gave lots
of practice by causing distractions almost all of the time. My
instrument instructor was so bad that I flew virtually all training
flights with something "not working." The only flight that didn't have
a failed instrument was the final prep flight for the check ride. I
then began to get distracted wondering why he wasn't introducing any
distractions. It was eerie.

Matt

[Matt Whiting]

Ben Jackson wrote:

> On 2006-06-08, Dudley Henriques > wrote:
>
>>the need for the gear cross check on final.
>
>
> Is anyone aware of any techniques for stopping the gear cross check after
> the plane is put away in the hangar and you're driving home? I still find
> myself thinking, "Oh my god, did I put the gear down for that landing?"
> when I'm a few miles away from the airport in my car...

Sorry, I can't help you. I relax as soon as the hangar door closes. :-)


Matt

[Dudley Henriques]

"Matt Whiting" > wrote in message
...

> I've been fortunate to have had three instructors (primary, instrument and
> retractable check-out) who not only taught the above, they gave lots of
> practice by causing distractions almost all of the time. My instrument
> instructor was so bad that I flew virtually all training flights with
> something "not working." The only flight that didn't have a failed
> instrument was the final prep flight for the check ride. I then began to
> get distracted wondering why he wasn't introducing any distractions. It
> was eerie.
>
> Matt

It sounds like you have had a rock solid learning curve that by it's very
definition, is ongoing, and will continue on with you as long as you fly.
DH

[DaveB]

On Thu, 08 Jun 2006 16:33:54 -0500, Ben Jackson > wrote:

>On 2006-06-08, Dudley Henriques > wrote:
>> the need for the gear cross check on final.
>
>Is anyone aware of any techniques for stopping the gear cross check after
>the plane is put away in the hangar and you're driving home? I still find
>myself thinking, "Oh my god, did I put the gear down for that landing?"
>when I'm a few miles away from the airport in my car...
>
>--
>Ben Jackson
>
>http://www.ben.com/


After just reading this I had to make a trip to the airport to check
mine.

Regards
Daveb

[GeorgeC]

Yes, BUT. I was talking to a tower controller, and he told of the time he check
a plane on final,. The pilot had his gear up. The controller said "XXXXX GEAR
DOWN." And the pilot said "Roger, gear down" and the preceded to land gear up.


On 7 Jun 2006 21:00:32 -0700, "Robert M. Gary" > wrote:

>I thought the military had someone who's just is specifically to watch
>the planes come in and ensure the gear is down. When I've flown on base
>in my Mooney they've had such a guy.
>
>-Robert

GeorgeC

[Dudley Henriques]

"GeorgeC" > wrote in message
...
> Yes, BUT. I was talking to a tower controller, and he told of the time he
> check
> a plane on final,. The pilot had his gear up. The controller said "XXXXX
> GEAR
> DOWN." And the pilot said "Roger, gear down" and the preceded to land gear
> up.

Point of note;

When told something like this by someone over the radio, the right thing to
do, even if the voice tells you exactly what is wrong and what to do, is to
treat it as a warning to recheck the airplane's configuration.
At that point you should do nothing automatically. The correct response is
to back up and recheck for a properly configured airplane by redoing the
final check.
If any doubt exists and/or there is no time to perform a recheck before
crossing the threshold, go around and set up again for another landing.
Dudley Henriques

[Morgans]

>>Is anyone aware of any techniques for stopping the gear cross check after
>>the plane is put away in the hangar and you're driving home? I still find
>>myself thinking, "Oh my god, did I put the gear down for that landing?"
>>when I'm a few miles away from the airport in my car...

> After just reading this I had to make a trip to the airport to check
> mine.

Do you remember the trip from the runway to where you parked?

If you had to use full power to taxi, you "might have" forgotten to put them
down. <g>

Such an oldie, but it fit here so nicely!
--
Jim in NC

[Matt Barrow]

"Dudley Henriques" > wrote in message
nk.net...
> Are you married?
> This is a syndrome common to the married male pilot. It usually begins on
> the way home from a trip to the store where the wife of the pilot has
> giving him a list of items to bring home.
> The symtoms involve the car having to be waiting for a light to change
> half way home ; fingers gently tapping on the top of the steering wheel;
> and thoughts of a wife looking at the pilot in disbelief as she tells him.
> "I can't BELIEVE you went to the store and forgot the ONE item I REALLY
> needed!"
> If this has happened to you, don't worry. You're normal like the rest of
> us :-)
> Dudley Henriques

Like, for example, wife asks you to go to the grocery store and you return
after spending an hour and a half, two hours.... at the (Insert: hardware,
sporting goods, etc) store having never gotten to the grocery store at all.


--
Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO (MTJ)

[.Blueskies.]

> wrote in message ...
> http://www.sftt.us/cgi-bin/csNews/csNews.cgi?database=Unlisted.db&command=viewone&id=41
>
> http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1629804/posts

I remember a P-3 shut down Lihue airport on the island of Kauai back in 1980 or so. Was practicing approaches when the
instructor decided to take it in for a full stop, and screech... I was flying 402's in and out of Princeville at the
time and we had a great day!

[Dudley Henriques]

"Matt Barrow" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Dudley Henriques" > wrote in message
> nk.net...
>> Are you married?
>> This is a syndrome common to the married male pilot. It usually begins on
>> the way home from a trip to the store where the wife of the pilot has
>> giving him a list of items to bring home.
>> The symtoms involve the car having to be waiting for a light to change
>> half way home ; fingers gently tapping on the top of the steering wheel;
>> and thoughts of a wife looking at the pilot in disbelief as she tells
>> him.
>> "I can't BELIEVE you went to the store and forgot the ONE item I REALLY
>> needed!"
>> If this has happened to you, don't worry. You're normal like the rest of
>> us :-)
>> Dudley Henriques
>
> Like, for example, wife asks you to go to the grocery store and you return
> after spending an hour and a half, two hours.... at the (Insert: hardware,
> sporting goods, etc) store having never gotten to the grocery store at
> all.

That's it!!! :-))
DH

[Jim Macklin]

Years ago, a co-pilot for a local corporation asked me to
ride-shotgun in their old C 310 on a night flight in the
local area. After ILS at KHUT and KICT with various airwork,
we setup for the final landing at KICT on 19R.
At 200 feet I asked my friend a question, like this. "I do
most of my instruction in the Duchess and Baron and they
have green lights to show the gear position, doesn't Cessna
do that?"


The gear lights were completely out. He had not looked, had
just gone by the sound and drag change when he moved the
lever. But a quick go-around solved the immediate problem
and some careful troubleshooting and wire tightening and
bulb swaps got us three green after about 30 more minutes.

The things that kill, controls locked (or rigged backward-
happens), no fuel are definite before take-off rechecks.
There aren't too many killers on landing assuming that you
have a place to land within fuel range, but landing gear up
is rarely a mechanical failure that couldn't have been
prevented by proper maintenance. If your flying a Baron or
Bonanza, the gear is operated by three steel push-pull rods
connected to a solid gear housing. If one wheel is down,
they all have to be unless the rod has become disconnected
or bent. One the bigger Beech twins, the main gear is
push-pull rods, but the nose gear is a bicycle chain, which
can break or jump the sprocket. It should be replaced and a
new sprocket used too every so often.

Good maintenance and a good pilot make retract gear safe,
either one missing and you have problems.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

"Dudley Henriques" > wrote in message
link.net...
|
| "Matt Whiting" > wrote in message
| ...
|
| > I've been fortunate to have had three instructors
(primary, instrument and
| > retractable check-out) who not only taught the above,
they gave lots of
| > practice by causing distractions almost all of the time.
My instrument
| > instructor was so bad that I flew virtually all training
flights with
| > something "not working." The only flight that didn't
have a failed
| > instrument was the final prep flight for the check ride.
I then began to
| > get distracted wondering why he wasn't introducing any
distractions. It
| > was eerie.
| >
| > Matt
|
| It sounds like you have had a rock solid learning curve
that by it's very
| definition, is ongoing, and will continue on with you as
long as you fly.
| DH
|
|

[Dudley Henriques]

"Jim Macklin" > wrote in message
news:tt4ig.28366$ZW3.15775@dukeread04...
> Years ago, a co-pilot for a local corporation asked me to
> ride-shotgun in their old C 310 on a night flight in the
> local area. After ILS at KHUT and KICT with various airwork,
> we setup for the final landing at KICT on 19R.
> At 200 feet I asked my friend a question, like this. "I do
> most of my instruction in the Duchess and Baron and they
> have green lights to show the gear position, doesn't Cessna
> do that?"
>
>
> The gear lights were completely out. He had not looked, had
> just gone by the sound and drag change when he moved the
> lever. But a quick go-around solved the immediate problem
> and some careful troubleshooting and wire tightening and
> bulb swaps got us three green after about 30 more minutes.

I love this approach, and have used it several times myself when correcting
another pilot in flight.
By asking the question instead of making the statement, you saved the
airplane; corrected the problem; taught a valuable lesson that wouldn't be
soon forgotten, and lo and behold.....you even managed to save the guys
pride and keep a friend!!!! A perfect night's work if I don't say so :-)))
Dudley

[Matt Whiting]

Jim Macklin wrote:

> Years ago, a co-pilot for a local corporation asked me to
> ride-shotgun in their old C 310 on a night flight in the
> local area. After ILS at KHUT and KICT with various airwork,
> we setup for the final landing at KICT on 19R.
> At 200 feet I asked my friend a question, like this. "I do
> most of my instruction in the Duchess and Baron and they
> have green lights to show the gear position, doesn't Cessna
> do that?"
>
>
> The gear lights were completely out. He had not looked, had
> just gone by the sound and drag change when he moved the
> lever. But a quick go-around solved the immediate problem
> and some careful troubleshooting and wire tightening and
> bulb swaps got us three green after about 30 more minutes.
>
> The things that kill, controls locked (or rigged backward-
> happens), no fuel are definite before take-off rechecks.
> There aren't too many killers on landing assuming that you
> have a place to land within fuel range, but landing gear up
> is rarely a mechanical failure that couldn't have been
> prevented by proper maintenance. If your flying a Baron or
> Bonanza, the gear is operated by three steel push-pull rods
> connected to a solid gear housing. If one wheel is down,
> they all have to be unless the rod has become disconnected
> or bent. One the bigger Beech twins, the main gear is
> push-pull rods, but the nose gear is a bicycle chain, which
> can break or jump the sprocket. It should be replaced and a
> new sprocket used too every so often.
>
> Good maintenance and a good pilot make retract gear safe,
> either one missing and you have problems.

Retracts are pretty safe even if the gear is up. It just makes the
landing fee much, much higher. :-)


Matt

[Jim Macklin]

Thanks.


"Dudley Henriques" > wrote in message
ink.net...
|
| "Jim Macklin" > wrote
in message
| news:tt4ig.28366$ZW3.15775@dukeread04...
| > Years ago, a co-pilot for a local corporation asked me
to
| > ride-shotgun in their old C 310 on a night flight in the
| > local area. After ILS at KHUT and KICT with various
airwork,
| > we setup for the final landing at KICT on 19R.
| > At 200 feet I asked my friend a question, like this. "I
do
| > most of my instruction in the Duchess and Baron and they
| > have green lights to show the gear position, doesn't
Cessna
| > do that?"
| >
| >
| > The gear lights were completely out. He had not looked,
had
| > just gone by the sound and drag change when he moved the
| > lever. But a quick go-around solved the immediate
problem
| > and some careful troubleshooting and wire tightening and
| > bulb swaps got us three green after about 30 more
minutes.
|
| I love this approach, and have used it several times
myself when correcting
| another pilot in flight.
| By asking the question instead of making the statement,
you saved the
| airplane; corrected the problem; taught a valuable lesson
that wouldn't be
| soon forgotten, and lo and behold.....you even managed to
save the guys
| pride and keep a friend!!!! A perfect night's work if I
don't say so :-)))
| Dudley
|
|

[Jim Macklin]

So true.



"Matt Whiting" > wrote in message
...
| Jim Macklin wrote:
|
| > Years ago, a co-pilot for a local corporation asked me
to
| > ride-shotgun in their old C 310 on a night flight in the
| > local area. After ILS at KHUT and KICT with various
airwork,
| > we setup for the final landing at KICT on 19R.
| > At 200 feet I asked my friend a question, like this. "I
do
| > most of my instruction in the Duchess and Baron and they
| > have green lights to show the gear position, doesn't
Cessna
| > do that?"
| >
| >
| > The gear lights were completely out. He had not looked,
had
| > just gone by the sound and drag change when he moved the
| > lever. But a quick go-around solved the immediate
problem
| > and some careful troubleshooting and wire tightening and
| > bulb swaps got us three green after about 30 more
minutes.
| >
| > The things that kill, controls locked (or rigged
backward-
| > happens), no fuel are definite before take-off rechecks.
| > There aren't too many killers on landing assuming that
you
| > have a place to land within fuel range, but landing gear
up
| > is rarely a mechanical failure that couldn't have been
| > prevented by proper maintenance. If your flying a Baron
or
| > Bonanza, the gear is operated by three steel push-pull
rods
| > connected to a solid gear housing. If one wheel is
down,
| > they all have to be unless the rod has become
disconnected
| > or bent. One the bigger Beech twins, the main gear is
| > push-pull rods, but the nose gear is a bicycle chain,
which
| > can break or jump the sprocket. It should be replaced
and a
| > new sprocket used too every so often.
| >
| > Good maintenance and a good pilot make retract gear
safe,
| > either one missing and you have problems.
|
| Retracts are pretty safe even if the gear is up. It just
makes the
| landing fee much, much higher. :-)
|
|
| Matt

[Casey Wilson]

A whole bunch of years ago down in Galveston (KGLS), Texas, one of the local
pilots was up doing T&Gs in his brand new V-Tail Bo. I was in the FBO lounge
with some other CAP Cadets listening to the radio and watching the traffic
waiting for our turn to go for an orientation hop.

I remember the Bo driver's excited voice when he called to another plane on
final to "Wave off, Go Around! Your gear is not down!" He then cut the
pattern short to fly wing tip with the guy while they did all sorts of
things to finally get the landing gear down and make a safe landing.

By now you know the punch line to this tale. Yup, the Bo driver landed with
his gear safely stowed in the wings.

[Maule Driver]

Good stuff as always Dudley.

I invented my own 'cross check' in perhaps the lowest tech retract -
sailplanes. All the retract sailplanes I flew had a 2 part vent window.
I never used the sliding window in flight but used it to cross check
gear operation. The key was the 'roar' that the open window caused.
Rule was "drop & lock gear, listen for gear wind noise, open window to
drown out the noise"

Doing off field 'emergency' landings in gliders is the definition of
distracting. People, cows, geese, power lines, barb wire, ditches,
jumpers, and other sailplanes were all encountered, but the worse was
the promise of continued flight from a low altitude thermal. A 'save'
called for gear up and window closed so I can hear the audio variometer.
Losing the thermal at <500' means gear down, window open. I've been
'distracted' multiple times at 500' and performed that cross check
multiple times before saving or landing.

Then there are tow rope breaks and 'showing off' with worm burner
finishes or even touch and go's - all distractions from routine. My
rule was - can't land without window open, can't open window unless gear
down and heard. 48 off-field glider landings and various idiot
manuevers, no gear ups.

It's not whether you will be distracted, it's what you do when you are
distracted. A cross check needs to be drilled deep in your flying soul.

....But I was never meaningfully drilled on the use of a cross check
during my very limited complex experience. My instructors didn't do
what Dudley outlined and I know I'm "one of those that will" until I
drill that hole. If you don't get what Dudley is saying, you may want
to read it again. Good stuff.

Dudley Henriques wrote:

>
> You're right, and the way to approach this issue is by realizing exactly
> this, then setting up a personal regimen for a pre-landing cross-check that
> is deliberately formated to be an exact final cross check procedure executed
> the same way as a habit pattern every time you fly.
> There are many of these axioms in use, and every pilot has his/her own
> favorite. It doesn't matter which one is used, as long as it's used exactly
> the same way every time you fly and at the same place in the approach every
> time. This has to become an ingrained habit pattern.
> My own personal cross check in ADDITION to the required regular pre-landing
> checklists, and the one I taught for years to every pilot I trained was the
> following; done on final.
> This cross check was always said aloud and each item had to be touched and
> verified as it was spoken.
> "All good pilots must land fine check"
> Each word was spoken individually as it was checked
> All: Altimeter
> Good; Gas
> Pilots; Prop
> Must; Mixture
> Land; Landing Gear
> Fine; Flaps
> Check; Carb Heat (if applicable)
> 50 years in retracts. No wheels up landings :-)))
> Dudley Henriques
>
>

[john smith]

In article <FD6ig.16001$523.10174@trnddc07>,
"Casey Wilson" <N2310D @ gmail.com> wrote:

> By now you know the punch line to this tale. Yup, the Bo driver landed with
> his gear safely stowed in the wings.

In Bonanza clinics they tell you that the most common cause of gear up
landings is a go around.

[Maule Driver]

(Todd, take a look at my previous glider related post)
I think that rechecking the a/c config is still a good response even
though a glider sustains minimal damage on a gear up. After all, there
is little configuration to check in a glider...

I had someone call my gear down during a relight at a contest. 50
sailplanes launched (Mifflin Pa) to sit in weak ridge lift in the hope
that we'd be able to start and complete a short task on an forecast
short, weak racing day. Of course we all launched with ballast just in
case so there were a number of busy relights as ballast was dumped, 300'
patterns flown and sailplanes littered the runway.

I hadn't decided whether to do a downwind straight-in or abbreviated
pattern when a crew member called up for me to check my gear.

I'll never know whether my cross check would have worked as planned (see
other post). I hadn't opened my window yet so my gear was still up. I
was at 300' with some energy. I told the crew that they saved my bottom
but I'll never know ... but I'm pretty sure I would have caught it with
my cross check.

T o d d P a t t i s t wrote:
> "Dudley Henriques" > wrote:
>
>
>>>a plane on final,. The pilot had his gear up. The controller said "XXXXX GEAR DOWN."
>
>
>>When told something like this by someone over the radio, the right thing to
>>do, even if the voice tells you exactly what is wrong and what to do, is to
>>treat it as a warning to recheck the airplane's configuration.
>>At that point you should do nothing automatically. The correct response is
>>to back up and recheck for a properly configured airplane by redoing the
>>final check.
>>If any doubt exists and/or there is no time to perform a recheck before
>>crossing the threshold, go around and set up again for another landing.
>
>
> Good advice for an airplane, but problematical for a glider
> that can't go around. A glider will do very little damage,
> or no damage (particularly on grass) so the biggest concern
> on a radio warning of any type is the distraction and
> failure to maintain control. It's similar to the sudden
> canopy/door opening problem. That said, however, I found it
> useful to practice specific distractions, including the gear
> warning distraction from the radio or the gear warning
> buzzer. There is actually plenty of time to visually check
> the gear position, verify it is correct or incorrect, and
> reposition it if necessary, provided that the process is
> practiced and becomes habit.
>
>

[Maule Driver]

I agree completely. Yep, fly the aircraft.

T o d d P a t t i s t wrote:
> Maule Driver > wrote:
>
>>(Todd, take a look at my previous glider related post)
>>I think that rechecking the a/c config is still a good response even
>>though a glider sustains minimal damage on a gear up. After all, there
>>is little configuration to check in a glider...
>
> I read your post. I totally agree that learning a recheck
> procedure is critical. I was commenting on what happens if
> you suddenly realize that despite all your planning you are
> late on final and are suddenly warned about your gear. Was
> the call for you? Is it really up or down? It is possible
> to be suddenly confused. Your checks and procedures tell
> you the gear is/should be down, but now you've got
> conflicting information and limited time to respond. "Fly
> the aircraft" has to be first.
>

[Maule Driver]

I've never flown with a gear warning buzzer. I tried to install a
homemade affair on a PIK - the malfunctions were worse than not having
one. I decided to use it if factory installed or TSO'd - or fly without
if not. Still seems like the easiest of prevention aids.

T o d d P a t t i s t wrote:
> Maule Driver > wrote:
>
>>the worse was
>>the promise of continued flight from a low altitude thermal. A 'save'
>>called for gear up and window closed so I can hear the audio variometer.
>> Losing the thermal at <500' means gear down, window open. I've been
>>'distracted' multiple times at 500' and performed that cross check
>>multiple times before saving or landing.
>
> I have to agree, when far from home, and low, you set up for
> a landing, you run the checks, look over the field, start
> the pattern, but you aren't fully committed to landing yet.
> It's not unusual to find lift low, retract the gear, then
> lose it and have to land, remembering to extend the gear.
> These times are the most intense periods of concentration
> that I've ever encountered.
>
> I used a quick visual check and mental "gear down" on final
> to make sure I had it right. It was backed up by the
> earlier pattern check and the subsequent gear warning buzzer
> when I used the airbrakes. I remember one flight where the
> gear was down at four different places, and at one of those
> spots it was down three times, before I retracted it for the
> last time and got away.
>

[Robert M. Gary]

Everytime I do no-landing light practice with my students at night the
controller will announce "check gear down".

-Robert



GeorgeC wrote:
> Yes, BUT. I was talking to a tower controller, and he told of the time he check
> a plane on final,. The pilot had his gear up. The controller said "XXXXX GEAR
> DOWN." And the pilot said "Roger, gear down" and the preceded to land gear up.