Welding question 2

[Bill Daniels]

I am struggling to master a simple 115V wire feed welder. I need to repair
a glider trailer. Now, I'm pretty damn good with oxy-acetylene and TIG but
this wire feed thing has me stumped. The rig I borrowed doesn't have an
argon bottle for true MIG welding so I'm using flux core wire.

Of course I RTFM and practised on some scrap until I could run a modest
bead. The big problem is upside-down welding on the bottom of the trailer.
Aside from the need to lie in a shower of hot metal, the results are really
ugly. Any tips?

bildan

[Morgans]

"Bill Daniels" <bildan@comcast-dot-net> wrote in message
. ..
>I am struggling to master a simple 115V wire feed welder. I need to repair
>a glider trailer. Now, I'm pretty damn good with oxy-acetylene and TIG but
>this wire feed thing has me stumped. The rig I borrowed doesn't have an
>argon bottle for true MIG welding so I'm using flux core wire.
>
> Of course I RTFM and practised on some scrap until I could run a modest
> bead. The big problem is upside-down welding on the bottom of the
> trailer. Aside from the need to lie in a shower of hot metal, the results
> are really ugly. Any tips?

The real trick with a wire welder, is figuring out the exact power setting,
and the feed speed to make it work right.

Have you worked with (practiced on) some small squares of the same thickness
you are going to be welding? On lots of welds, you think you have a
fantastic, pretty weld, then you test the strength, and it breaks right
apart. No penetration.

Weld two 3" x 3" squares together (butt weld), then put them in a vise and
grab a pipe wrench and bend the squares to see if you can break the weld
apart. If it breaks next to the weld, and not at the weld, you have the
penetration right. Good. Now to get it to work upside down, or any way.

The key to the weld is the power, and the wire feed speed, right?

You set the feed speed by the sound it makes. Really! You need to get a
consistent sizzle, like frying onions in butter. If it is a pop pop pop,
then slow the wire down. If the sizzle is too slow, or it stops and starts,
speed it up.

If you get the penetration and the speed right, welding upside down is
easier on a wire welder, than with any other type of welding, IMHO. Of
course, you want to position yourself a little off to the side, so you are
not "directly" below the weld, getting a sparkler bath. <g>

I apologize if some of this description is too elementary for you, but
perhaps someone can learn from it. There is a possibility that the welder
you used was a worthless piece of crap. Some of the lower line ones are.
The fact that it did not have a way to use gas, suggests that it is possible
that it was a lower line model.

Good luck!
--
Jim in NC

[frOg]

"Bill Daniels" <bildan@comcast-dot-net> wrote in message
. ..
> I am struggling to master a simple 115V wire feed welder. I need to
repair
> a glider trailer. Now, I'm pretty damn good with oxy-acetylene and TIG
but
> this wire feed thing has me stumped. The rig I borrowed doesn't have an
> argon bottle for true MIG welding so I'm using flux core wire.
>
> Of course I RTFM and practised on some scrap until I could run a modest
> bead. The big problem is upside-down welding on the bottom of the
trailer.
> Aside from the need to lie in a shower of hot metal, the results are
really
> ugly. Any tips?
>
> bildan


Jim covered the welder setup. I suggest for the 'welding overhead' problem
that you position yourself slightly off to the side (reaching over to the
weld) so the sparks fall next to you onto the floor/ground. Sometimes an
extra spotlight shining onto the weld will help offset the overhead glare,
or 'backlight' distraction. Laying on a creeper may also let the sparks roll
around under you without burning holes in yer shorts.

[John Ammeter]

turn the trailer over...

John

Bill Daniels wrote:
> I am struggling to master a simple 115V wire feed welder. I need to repair
> a glider trailer. Now, I'm pretty damn good with oxy-acetylene and TIG but
> this wire feed thing has me stumped. The rig I borrowed doesn't have an
> argon bottle for true MIG welding so I'm using flux core wire.
>
> Of course I RTFM and practised on some scrap until I could run a modest
> bead. The big problem is upside-down welding on the bottom of the trailer.
> Aside from the need to lie in a shower of hot metal, the results are really
> ugly. Any tips?
>
> bildan
>
>

[Bill Daniels]

"Morgans" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Bill Daniels" <bildan@comcast-dot-net> wrote in message
> . ..
>>I am struggling to master a simple 115V wire feed welder. I need to
>>repair a glider trailer. Now, I'm pretty damn good with oxy-acetylene and
>>TIG but this wire feed thing has me stumped. The rig I borrowed doesn't
>>have an argon bottle for true MIG welding so I'm using flux core wire.
>>
>> Of course I RTFM and practised on some scrap until I could run a modest
>> bead. The big problem is upside-down welding on the bottom of the
>> trailer. Aside from the need to lie in a shower of hot metal, the results
>> are really ugly. Any tips?
>
> The real trick with a wire welder, is figuring out the exact power
> setting, and the feed speed to make it work right.
>
> Have you worked with (practiced on) some small squares of the same
> thickness you are going to be welding? On lots of welds, you think you
> have a fantastic, pretty weld, then you test the strength, and it breaks
> right apart. No penetration.
>
> Weld two 3" x 3" squares together (butt weld), then put them in a vise and
> grab a pipe wrench and bend the squares to see if you can break the weld
> apart. If it breaks next to the weld, and not at the weld, you have the
> penetration right. Good. Now to get it to work upside down, or any way.
>
> The key to the weld is the power, and the wire feed speed, right?
>
> You set the feed speed by the sound it makes. Really! You need to get a
> consistent sizzle, like frying onions in butter. If it is a pop pop pop,
> then slow the wire down. If the sizzle is too slow, or it stops and
> starts, speed it up.
>
> If you get the penetration and the speed right, welding upside down is
> easier on a wire welder, than with any other type of welding, IMHO. Of
> course, you want to position yourself a little off to the side, so you are
> not "directly" below the weld, getting a sparkler bath. <g>
>
> I apologize if some of this description is too elementary for you, but
> perhaps someone can learn from it. There is a possibility that the welder
> you used was a worthless piece of crap. Some of the lower line ones are.
> The fact that it did not have a way to use gas, suggests that it is
> possible that it was a lower line model.
>
> Good luck!
> --
> Jim in NC
That 'pop/sizzle' wirefeed/power bit is good advice. I kinda figgered that
out on my own and the results improved. The welder does have the option of
gas but I didn't borrow the regulator since the owner didn't have a gas
bottle or any solid wire. Would I be better off to change to gas/solid
wire?

Getting out of the sparkler shower is kinda automatic once I got burned a
coupla times. Wearing a welders leather getup helps.

Turning the trailer over is a non starter. The trailer is probably 1500
pounds and 35 feet long with a fiberglass camshell top.

Bill Daniels

[Morgans]

"Bill Daniels" <bildan@comcast-dot-net> wrote

> That 'pop/sizzle' wirefeed/power bit is good advice. I kinda figgered
> that out on my own and the results improved. The welder does have the
> option of gas but I didn't borrow the regulator since the owner didn't
> have a gas bottle or any solid wire. Would I be better off to change to
> gas/solid wire?

Yep, the bottle would get you better results, both pretty wise, and easy
wise. It depends how much more you have to do, on this job. Not much to
do, forget it. If you have a lot to do, it might be worth getting it.
--
Jim in NC

[Tater Schuld]

> Bill Daniels wrote:
>> I am struggling to master a simple 115V wire feed welder. I need to
>> repair snip<<
>> Aside from the need to lie in a shower of hot metal, the results are
>> really ugly. Any tips?
>>
>> bildan


"John Ammeter" > wrote in message
news:SeSdnQ7vBbIFIRXZnZ2dnUVZ_oKdnZ2d@cablespeedwa .com...
> turn the trailer over...
>
> John

second best answer I've heard of.

first best? ditch the 115V welder and beg or borrow a 230v welder 115v
fluxcores are considered one of the weakest sisters for welding over on
sci.engr.joining.welding

had that answer when I got a free 115v arc welder. I asked if maybe a
fluxcore would be better.

[pbc76049]

Hey Bill.
If this is one of the cobra trailers with the rubber suspended
axle coming up thru the floor...... I'd stop and have a fab shop
add some stiffeners to the structure and have somebody do it
with the right tools. I'd HATE to have the trailer fail and break an
expensive plastic toy inside. YMMV

--
Have a great day

Scott
"Bill Daniels" <bildan@comcast-dot-net> wrote in message
. ..
>I am struggling to master a simple 115V wire feed welder. I need to repair
>a glider trailer. Now, I'm pretty damn good with oxy-acetylene and TIG but
>this wire feed thing has me stumped. The rig I borrowed doesn't have an
>argon bottle for true MIG welding so I'm using flux core wire.
>
> Of course I RTFM and practised on some scrap until I could run a modest
> bead. The big problem is upside-down welding on the bottom of the
> trailer. Aside from the need to lie in a shower of hot metal, the results
> are really ugly. Any tips?
>
> bildan
>

[cavelamb]

Morgans wrote:
> "Bill Daniels" <bildan@comcast-dot-net> wrote
>
>
>>That 'pop/sizzle' wirefeed/power bit is good advice. I kinda figgered
>>that out on my own and the results improved. The welder does have the
>>option of gas but I didn't borrow the regulator since the owner didn't
>>have a gas bottle or any solid wire. Would I be better off to change to
>>gas/solid wire?
>
>
> Yep, the bottle would get you better results, both pretty wise, and easy
> wise. It depends how much more you have to do, on this job. Not much to
> do, forget it. If you have a lot to do, it might be worth getting it.

But outdoors, the gas will blow away without shielding the weld.
Flux core wire for outside work...

[cavelamb]

Tater Schuld wrote:

>>Bill Daniels wrote:
>>
>>>I am struggling to master a simple 115V wire feed welder. I need to
>>>repair snip<<
>>>Aside from the need to lie in a shower of hot metal, the results are
>>>really ugly. Any tips?
>>>
>>>bildan
>
>
>
> "John Ammeter" > wrote in message
> news:SeSdnQ7vBbIFIRXZnZ2dnUVZ_oKdnZ2d@cablespeedwa .com...
>
>>turn the trailer over...
>>
>>John
>
>
> second best answer I've heard of.
>
> first best? ditch the 115V welder and beg or borrow a 230v welder 115v
> fluxcores are considered one of the weakest sisters for welding over on
> sci.engr.joining.welding
>
> had that answer when I got a free 115v arc welder. I asked if maybe a
> fluxcore would be better.
>
>
Another thought on this question...

Make sure the welder is getting good 'trons.

Short 10 gauge extension cord.

[Morgans]

"cavelamb" > wrote

> But outdoors, the gas will blow away without shielding the weld.
> Flux core wire for outside work...

I had not thought of that, but I have never welded outside of a shop,
either. It has to do with big power supplies, and the availability
outdoors, I suppose.
--
Jim in NC

[Bill Daniels]

"pbc76049" > wrote in message
...
> Hey Bill.
> If this is one of the cobra trailers with the rubber suspended
> axle coming up thru the floor...... I'd stop and have a fab shop
> add some stiffeners to the structure and have somebody do it
> with the right tools. I'd HATE to have the trailer fail and break an
> expensive plastic toy inside. YMMV

It's a Komet trailer and yes, the axle was coming up through the floor. I
have a new axle on order. The old one had a hardened rubber torsion member
which is probably the cause of the frame cracking. BTW, nothing wrong with
rubber torsion axles except the finite life - they're cheap to replace but
you have to do it every ten years.

There remains one possible problem. The new axle SHOULD bolt right up to
the frame bolts but the best computer work by a knowledgeable tech at the
"Red Neck Trailer Shop" (Honest, that is the name) couldn't assure that the
new one will fit so I may have to weld up a new attach points anyway..

I doubt this trailer will ever break again. I added enough extra square
tubing and angle to insure that. All the extra metal is welded in place
with aircraft grade oxy-acetylene welds. All I am doing with the wire-feed
buzz box is closing up the bottom. It's real hard to weld UP with an
oxy-acetylene torch.

Interestingly, when I grind the oxy-acetylene welds, they work the same as
the substrate. The wire feed beads, on the other hand, are much harder
than the substrate. The arc beads are like stellite.

Bill Daniels