FAA To Change Twin-Engine Airliner Regulations

[Larry Dighera]

U.S. regulators are near to concluding that jetliners with two
engines are as safe as those with three or four engines and
should have the same flexibility in flying long-distance
routes, a report said. The Federal Aviation Administration is
nearing completion of rules that are expected particularly to
benefit BOEING CO.'s twin-engine 777 airliner, The Wall Street
Journal said. The rules also are expected to benefit Boeing's
strategy of building planes capable of flying passengers
directly to their destinations without transferring through
busy hub airports, the Journal said, citing industry officials.
Twin-engine planes currently have to stay within 3-1/2 hours of
an emergency landing strip while flying across wide expanses of
ocean or polar terrain, the newspaper said. Chet Ekstrand, a
senior Boeing safety official, said on Friday that he does not
expect the final regulations will have any changes of substance
from a draft the FAA released in November 2003. Officials from
the FAA and Boeing rival Airbus declined to comment. Airbus is
owned by EADS and BAE SYSTEMS PLC.
(Reuters 03:37 AM ET 06/05/2006)

More:

http://q1.schwab.com/s/r?l=248&a=1225472&m=100624484b36200023599a&s=rb060605

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[Friedrich Ostertag]

Larry Dighera wrote:
> U.S. regulators are near to concluding that jetliners with two
> engines are as safe as those with three or four engines and
> should have the same flexibility in flying long-distance
> routes, a report said. The Federal Aviation Administration is
> nearing completion of rules that are expected particularly to
> benefit BOEING CO.'s twin-engine 777 airliner, The Wall Street
> Journal said. The rules also are expected to benefit Boeing's
> strategy of building planes capable of flying passengers
> directly to their destinations without transferring through
> busy hub airports, the Journal said, citing industry officials.
> Twin-engine planes currently have to stay within 3-1/2 hours of
> an emergency landing strip while flying across wide expanses of
> ocean or polar terrain, the newspaper said. Chet Ekstrand, a
> senior Boeing safety official, said on Friday that he does not
> expect the final regulations will have any changes of substance
> from a draft the FAA released in November 2003. Officials from
> the FAA and Boeing rival Airbus declined to comment. Airbus is
> owned by EADS and BAE SYSTEMS PLC.
> (Reuters 03:37 AM ET 06/05/2006)

I don't see how this is going to have any significant impact on the
capability of twin-engined airliners for long range routes. Already with the
current requirement of max. 3.5h (single engine speed!) distance to a
suitable emergency landing place, there are very few "no-go" areas left,
even over the oceans. Polar regions I'm not sure, but this is only relevant
for cargo today. The main challenge for ultra-longrange routes is carrying
enough fuel and still be able to load some passengers...

Am I mistaken somewhere?

regards,
Friedrich

[Robert M. Gary]

The 777 was already exempt from this in exchange for tighter
certification requirements. I think Airbus is just whining that they
want what Boeing got.

-Robert


Larry Dighera wrote:
> U.S. regulators are near to concluding that jetliners with two
> engines are as safe as those with three or four engines and
> should have the same flexibility in flying long-distance
> routes, a report said. The Federal Aviation Administration is
> nearing completion of rules that are expected particularly to
> benefit BOEING CO.'s twin-engine 777 airliner, The Wall Street
> Journal said. The rules also are expected to benefit Boeing's
> strategy of building planes capable of flying passengers
> directly to their destinations without transferring through
> busy hub airports, the Journal said, citing industry officials.
> Twin-engine planes currently have to stay within 3-1/2 hours of
> an emergency landing strip while flying across wide expanses of
> ocean or polar terrain, the newspaper said. Chet Ekstrand, a
> senior Boeing safety official, said on Friday that he does not
> expect the final regulations will have any changes of substance
> from a draft the FAA released in November 2003. Officials from
> the FAA and Boeing rival Airbus declined to comment. Airbus is
> owned by EADS and BAE SYSTEMS PLC.
> (Reuters 03:37 AM ET 06/05/2006)
>
> More:
>
> http://q1.schwab.com/s/r?l=248&a=1225472&m=100624484b36200023599a&s=rb060605
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------

[Chris]

Its just political and economic and has nothing to do with flight safety.
With the mid term elections on the way this is not surprising.
Pork bellies anyone?


"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> The 777 was already exempt from this in exchange for tighter
> certification requirements. I think Airbus is just whining that they
> want what Boeing got.
>
> -Robert
>
>
> Larry Dighera wrote:
>> U.S. regulators are near to concluding that jetliners with two
>> engines are as safe as those with three or four engines and
>> should have the same flexibility in flying long-distance
>> routes, a report said. The Federal Aviation Administration is
>> nearing completion of rules that are expected particularly to
>> benefit BOEING CO.'s twin-engine 777 airliner, The Wall Street
>> Journal said. The rules also are expected to benefit Boeing's
>> strategy of building planes capable of flying passengers
>> directly to their destinations without transferring through
>> busy hub airports, the Journal said, citing industry officials.
>> Twin-engine planes currently have to stay within 3-1/2 hours of
>> an emergency landing strip while flying across wide expanses of
>> ocean or polar terrain, the newspaper said. Chet Ekstrand, a
>> senior Boeing safety official, said on Friday that he does not
>> expect the final regulations will have any changes of substance
>> from a draft the FAA released in November 2003. Officials from
>> the FAA and Boeing rival Airbus declined to comment. Airbus is
>> owned by EADS and BAE SYSTEMS PLC.
>> (Reuters 03:37 AM ET 06/05/2006)
>>
>> More:
>>
>> http://q1.schwab.com/s/r?l=248&a=1225472&m=100624484b36200023599a&s=rb060605
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>

[FlyWithTwo]

Larry Dighera wrote:
> U.S. regulators are near to concluding that jetliners with two
> engines are as safe as those with three or four engines and
> should have the same flexibility in flying long-distance
> routes, a report said. The Federal Aviation Administration is
> nearing completion of rules that are expected particularly to
> benefit BOEING CO.'s twin-engine 777 airliner, The Wall Street
> Journal said. The rules also are expected to benefit Boeing's
> strategy of building planes capable of flying passengers
> directly to their destinations without transferring through
> busy hub airports, the Journal said, citing industry officials.
> Twin-engine planes currently have to stay within 3-1/2 hours of
> an emergency landing strip while flying across wide expanses of
> ocean or polar terrain, the newspaper said. Chet Ekstrand, a
> senior Boeing safety official, said on Friday that he does not
> expect the final regulations will have any changes of substance
> from a draft the FAA released in November 2003. Officials from
> the FAA and Boeing rival Airbus declined to comment. Airbus is
> owned by EADS and BAE SYSTEMS PLC.
> (Reuters 03:37 AM ET 06/05/2006)
>
> More:
>
> http://q1.schwab.com/s/r?l=248&a=1225472&m=100624484b36200023599a&s=rb060605
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------

The FAA/JAA terminology for this type of certification was ETOPS
(Extended-range twin-engine operations). The plane, along with engines
and complement of nav/com systems, is certified to fly on one engine
for more than one hour from an airport when over water. Based on
cumulative reliability, the length of time can be extended. Certain
versions of twins like the B757, B767, A310, A330 were approved for
ETOPS. The B777 was actually ETOPS approved from the launch date -
quite an accomplishment for a new plane with new engines. One of the
marketing battles between Airbus and Boeing was the A340 versus the
B777 - four engines versus two. ETOPS had a lot to do with the success
of the B777. In the satellite communications community, we used to
refer to ETOPS as "Engines Turn or Passengers Swim".

Brian

[M]

You're mistaken. ETOPS stands for "Engines Turn Or People Swim".

:-)

FlyWithTwo wrote:
>
> The FAA/JAA terminology for this type of certification was ETOPS
> (Extended-range twin-engine operations). The plane, along with engines
> and complement of nav/com systems, is certified to fly on one engine
> for more than one hour from an airport when over water. Based on
> cumulative reliability, the length of time can be extended. Certain
> versions of twins like the B757, B767, A310, A330 were approved for
> ETOPS. The B777 was actually ETOPS approved from the launch date -
> quite an accomplishment for a new plane with new engines. One of the
> marketing battles between Airbus and Boeing was the A340 versus the
> B777 - four engines versus two. ETOPS had a lot to do with the success
> of the B777. In the satellite communications community, we used to
> refer to ETOPS as "Engines Turn or Passengers Swim".
>
> Brian

[Kingfish]

Didn't realize the WSJ was such an authority on aviation... Like Brian
(FWT) said, the ETOPS certification benefits not just Boeing but Airbus
as well. The four engine A340 is losing out to the 777 in sales, and no
clever ad campaign (Four engines for the long haul) is going to reverse
declining sales due to fuel burn issues nowadays. The 777 and 787's
success has arguably been a factor in the redesign of the A350.

Larry Dighera wrote:
> U.S. regulators are near to concluding that jetliners with two
> engines are as safe as those with three or four engines and
> should have the same flexibility in flying long-distance
> routes, a report said. The Federal Aviation Administration is
> nearing completion of rules that are expected particularly to
> benefit BOEING CO.'s twin-engine 777 airliner, The Wall Street
> Journal said. The rules also are expected to benefit Boeing's
> strategy of building planes capable of flying passengers
> directly to their destinations without transferring through
> busy hub airports, the Journal said, citing industry officials.
> Twin-engine planes currently have to stay within 3-1/2 hours of
> an emergency landing strip while flying across wide expanses of
> ocean or polar terrain, the newspaper said. Chet Ekstrand, a
> senior Boeing safety official, said on Friday that he does not
> expect the final regulations will have any changes of substance
> from a draft the FAA released in November 2003. Officials from
> the FAA and Boeing rival Airbus declined to comment. Airbus is
> owned by EADS and BAE SYSTEMS PLC.
> (Reuters 03:37 AM ET 06/05/2006)
>
> More:
>
> http://q1.schwab.com/s/r?l=248&a=1225472&m=100624484b36200023599a&s=rb060605
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------