Fiberglass vs. Fabric

[Lou]

Ok, I just finished reading Tony Bingelis's "sportplane builder"
section on covering a wooden plane with fiberglass instead of the
intended fabric. Has anyone in this group ever done this or some who
knows someone who has done this? I'm building a wooden place that
calls for
a fabric covering. I've tried to do as much homework on this subject
as I can but still can not come up with a weight difference between
fabric and a thin coat of fiberglass. I know that the fabric is not
structural so why can't I subsitute a lightweight fiberglass for the
fabric?
Any feedback?
Lou

[Ed Sullivan]

On 16 Jun 2006 19:57:02 -0700, "Lou" > wrote:

>Ok, I just finished reading Tony Bingelis's "sportplane builder"
>section on covering a wooden plane with fiberglass instead of the
>intended fabric. Has anyone in this group ever done this or some who
>knows someone who has done this? I'm building a wooden place that
>calls for
>a fabric covering. I've tried to do as much homework on this subject
>as I can but still can not come up with a weight difference between
>fabric and a thin coat of fiberglass. I know that the fabric is not
>structural so why can't I subsitute a lightweight fiberglass for the
>fabric?
>Any feedback?
> Lou
>
Lou,The glass that tony referred to is model airplane glass which is
very light and thin. I used it as the outside layer on my leading
edges and tips, however that was over aircraft grade fiberglas not
plywood. Apparently Tony had good luck with it. I think if you did a
Sport Aviation search for Tony's articles on building the Emeraude you
could get a little more information.

[Doug Palmer]

I am building an wood amphibian and the entire plane is covered with glass.
I covered my wings with 1.4 oz fiberglass which is as close in weight to
fabric as you will get. The thinner glass can be a bear to work with- it is
so light that when working over any substantial area, you will squeegee it
and four feet down the way it pulls and causes a run. You will have a
difficult time covering the plywood with this thin glass UNLESS you also use
a peel ply over it,. I have only done my surfaces when horizontal so I
don't know how difficult or easy a vertical surface would be. This fabric
is so thin and light that after wetting it out, over larger surface areas,
while you are working with the squeegee the fabric will tend to get pulled
by the squeegee and will get a lot of runs and ripples in it, and the resin
to glass mix will tend towards being resin rich.

I had good success by first laying the thin glass over the surface (no resin
underneath) Then wetting out the glass from on top, resin rich, letting
gravity pull the resin through the glass into the underlying wood, as much
as working it through by stippling and some light squeegee work, the glass
can be resin rich at this stage. Then I put a Dacron peel ply over the
light glass/resin and also wetted the Dacron out with additional resin from
on top as if it were a ply of the glass. If you don't wet out the Dacron it
will "blot" too much of the resin off out of the underlying glass. It was
much easier to use the Dacron to help get the light glass to lay down nicely
and get an even resin ratio on the glass. The Dacron is stiffer and has
more structure when wet and helps control the lay of the glass. As long as
the Dacron gets thoroughly wetted out the glass underneath will wet out nice
and even, any excess resin can be left on top of the Dacron as it will get
pulled off after cure. Then let it cure and have fun pulling the Dacron
peel ply off. This method definitely wastes some resin but you will end up
with a better finished product that has a nice tooth for the primer.

Whatever you do, do a 3' x 3' practice lay-up before committing the system
to your project!

Good Luck!

My project can be seen at http://dougnlinap.home.mindspring.com/home.html



"Lou" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Ok, I just finished reading Tony Bingelis's "sportplane builder"
> section on covering a wooden plane with fiberglass instead of the
> intended fabric. Has anyone in this group ever done this or some who
> knows someone who has done this? I'm building a wooden place that
> calls for
> a fabric covering. I've tried to do as much homework on this subject
> as I can but still can not come up with a weight difference between
> fabric and a thin coat of fiberglass. I know that the fabric is not
> structural so why can't I subsitute a lightweight fiberglass for the
> fabric?
> Any feedback?
> Lou
>

[rocky]

Lou wrote:
> Ok, I just finished reading Tony Bingelis's "sportplane builder"
> section on covering a wooden plane with fiberglass instead of the
> intended fabric. Has anyone in this group ever done this or some who
> knows someone who has done this? I'm building a wooden place that
> calls for
> a fabric covering. I've tried to do as much homework on this subject
> as I can but still can not come up with a weight difference between
> fabric and a thin coat of fiberglass. I know that the fabric is not
> structural so why can't I subsitute a lightweight fiberglass for the
> fabric?
> Any feedback?
> Lou
>
The fiberglass you're refferring to goes by the name of RAZORBACK.
Various military planes used it like the PT-19B

[Philippe Vessaire]

Lou wrote:

> Ok, I just finished reading Tony Bingelis's "sportplane builder"
> section on covering a wooden plane with fiberglass instead of *the
> intended fabric. Has anyone in this group ever done this or some who
> knows someone who has done this?

Doug Palmer said all you kneed to know.
The most important is the peel ply, it also save finishing time.

By
--
Pub: http://www.slowfood.fr/france
Philippe Vessaire ҿӬ

[Lou]

Doug, thanks. You said that the 1.4oz is close to fabric in weight. Is
that finihed weight
with the epoxy against finished weight of fabric all doped up?
Lou

[Doug Palmer]

I was unable to find a difference in weight between a 2' x 2' sample of
each, this was using a postal scale accurate to .1 OZ. That said after
finishing, painting each system there might be some difference, but I would
think that it would be very small.

Good Luck

"Lou" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Doug, thanks. You said that the 1.4oz is close to fabric in weight. Is
> that finihed weight
> with the epoxy against finished weight of fabric all doped up?
> Lou
>

[J.Kahn]

Lou wrote:
> Ok, I just finished reading Tony Bingelis's "sportplane builder"
> section on covering a wooden plane with fiberglass instead of the
> intended fabric. Has anyone in this group ever done this or some who
> knows someone who has done this? I'm building a wooden place that
> calls for
> a fabric covering. I've tried to do as much homework on this subject
> as I can but still can not come up with a weight difference between
> fabric and a thin coat of fiberglass. I know that the fabric is not
> structural so why can't I subsitute a lightweight fiberglass for the
> fabric?
> Any feedback?
> Lou
>

I assume you're applying it over plywood. In that case just get a book
on building wooden canoes and follow the glassing process used for them.
They usually use a layer or two of light weight cloth and West system
resin.

You can also go to the Wittman Tailwind list on Yahoo and search the
archives for posts on it. I believe most Tailwind builders glass their
ply wings instead of fabric.

John

[Michael Pilla]

"J.Kahn" > wrote in message
...
> Lou wrote:
>> Ok, I just finished reading Tony Bingelis's "sportplane builder"
>> section on covering a wooden plane with fiberglass instead of the
>> intended fabric. Has anyone in this group ever done this or some who
>> knows someone who has done this? I'm building a wooden place that
>> calls for
>> a fabric covering. I've tried to do as much homework on this subject
>> as I can but still can not come up with a weight difference between
>> fabric and a thin coat of fiberglass. I know that the fabric is not
>> structural so why can't I subsitute a lightweight fiberglass for the
>> fabric?
>> Any feedback?
>> Lou
>>
>
> I assume you're applying it over plywood. In that case just get a book on
> building wooden canoes and follow the glassing process used for them. They
> usually use a layer or two of light weight cloth and West system resin.
>
SNIP
> John

One of my former chapter (EAA 315) members built a Pulsar and did not like
the fit of the plywood wing skins after flying it for a while. In
particular, he complained about the plywood skins sagging in humid weather.

He routed out the plywood 'tween the ribs/spars/... He then fabricated
sheets of fiberglass/epoxy skins on a large sheet of plate glass (dunno the
thicknesses, etc.) and applied them over the surface of the wing in lieu of
the routed out plywood wing skins. His approach appeared to resolve the
humidity-induced sagging problem he had experienced with the plain plywood
and also had a sleeker finish.

Of course, he had to engineer the new "skin" system,. test fly it (after
having flown the plywood skinned version), etc. IIRC, he was quite happy
with the outcome. I don't know if the builder is still active as I moved
from the area, but I would be happy to check to see if he was available, had
lessons learned, etc., available.

Michael Pilla

Michael Pilla

[Lou]

What you described is what my plans call for. Wooden ribs with plywood
over but
routed inbetween. Then on top of the plywood I'm to install the fabric.
This is just one
of the areas that I want to replace the fabric with fiberglass. It is
obcviously not structural.
So replacing with fiberglass should give me a smoother, harder finish.
Also, I would like to know if this finish will give me a better gph for
trips not to mention maybe, just maybe a few more knots. Yes I would
love to talk to your friend.
Lou

[Richard Riley]

cavelamb wrote:
>
> Once the fabric touches the resin - it's stuck.

Get your surface all good and preped, then spray it with a light
dusting of hair spray. It's just tacky enough to hold the fabric in
place, but let you peel it off and reposition it.

> But how to wet it out?
> On a vertical surface too?
>
> Well, glass this thin, might just be able to spray it(?)
> HVLP?

That's an interesting idea. Maybe one of Vdubber's Harbor Freight
touch up guns, with the disposable jars.

[[email protected]]

rocky wrote:
> Lou wrote:
> > Ok, I just finished reading Tony Bingelis's "sportplane builder"
> > section on covering a wooden plane with fiberglass instead of the
> > intended fabric. Has anyone in this group ever done this or some who
> > knows someone who has done this? I'm building a wooden place that
> > calls for
> > a fabric covering. I've tried to do as much homework on this subject
> > as I can but still can not come up with a weight difference between
> > fabric and a thin coat of fiberglass. I know that the fabric is not
> > structural so why can't I subsitute a lightweight fiberglass for the
> > fabric?
> > Any feedback?
> > Lou
> >
> The fiberglass you're refferring to goes by the name of RAZORBACK.
> Various military planes used it like the PT-19B

Razorback is it's own covering system, using dope on fiberglass cloth
IIFC. Bingelis' technique is to use light fiberglass over plywood,
using the same resin one normally uses.

--

FF

[Lou]

Richard, won't the hairspray interfere with the adhesion of the resin?
Lou

[J.Kahn]

Lou wrote:
> What you described is what my plans call for. Wooden ribs with plywood
> over but
> routed inbetween. Then on top of the plywood I'm to install the fabric.
> This is just one
> of the areas that I want to replace the fabric with fiberglass. It is
> obcviously not structural.
> So replacing with fiberglass should give me a smoother, harder finish.
> Also, I would like to know if this finish will give me a better gph for
> trips not to mention maybe, just maybe a few more knots. Yes I would
> love to talk to your friend.
> Lou
>
Ahh so the fabric is to be a non structural skin over open bays like any
normal fabric covering. If you apply a rigid glass/epoxy skin it will
be the same as skinning the entire wing in plywood.

The ply is routed out between the ribs to save weight in an area where
the ply provides no structural benefit. If you want to create a rigid
glass/epoxy skin over an area that is normally covered with flexible
fabric it will have to be stiff enough to support air loads without
deforming. It will be much heavier than a fabric layer would be.

You might as well skin the entire wing in ply and use a minimal glass
layer as a protective coating. Either way you are going to end up with
a much heavier wing.

A rigid skin in the area aft of the spars designed for open bays with
flexible fabric will make no significant difference in speed if the a/c
goes under 150 mph, and it will cost you many pounds in weight.

Use a polyurethane covering process on those areas intended for fabric
over open bays. Only use glass/epoxy only on fully skinned components.


John

[Lou]

Hi John,
One of the idea's I came across was to insert styrofoam into the wing
under the routed plywood to keep the wing shape. Then apply the
fiberglass over the entire wing. Do you think this will be a waste of
time?
Lou

[Rich S.]

Lou..........

I have read most of the postings and replies on your idea. The thing that
comes to mind is why you would want to do such a thing? It makes no sense
whatever. Keep in mind the homebuilder's mantra:

"Follow the plans, add only lightness.

Follow the plans, add only lightness.

Follow the plans, add only lightness."

Repeat this every day as you begin your work.

Rich S.

[[email protected]]

J.Kahn wrote:
>
> ...
>
> You might as well skin the entire wing in ply and use a minimal glass
> layer as a protective coating. Either way you are going to end up with
> a much heavier wing.
>

Having read his book, I think that is exactly what Bingelis did, with
either the wing, or the fuselage, or both.

The advantages were a smoother surface, though I daresay proper
wood finishing technique would produce as smooth s surface
with considerably less work and wieght, and improved resistance
to the elements.

I believe he said it added 10 to 15 lbs to the plane.

--

FF

[Michael Pilla]

> wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> J.Kahn wrote:
>>
>> ...
>>
>> You might as well skin the entire wing in ply and use a minimal glass
>> layer as a protective coating. Either way you are going to end up with
>> a much heavier wing.
>>
>
> Having read his book, I think that is exactly what Bingelis did, with
> either the wing, or the fuselage, or both.
>
> The advantages were a smoother surface, though I daresay proper
> wood finishing technique would produce as smooth s surface
> with considerably less work and wieght, and improved resistance
> to the elements.
>
> I believe he said it added 10 to 15 lbs to the plane.
>
> --
>
> FF

I wonder if the thin glass skin, over the plywood, would eliminate the
sagging 'tween rib bays that a Pulsar builder experienced. He was skilled
at woodworking, IIRC, but complained about sagging 'tween rib bats in humid
weather. I don't know the details, unfortunately.

As I indicated in a previous reply to this thread, he routed out the plywood
and fabricated sheets of fiberglass/epoxy as a thin "skin" that he then
applied as if it was plywood skin material. No sagging and he liked the
result. I have no details about weight penalty, engineering changes (extra
thickness all around because of the plywood over the ribs, spar, etc.).

I am trying to locate the Pulsar builder to see if his experiences could be
made available for this thread.

Michael Pilla

[Ed Sullivan]

On Mon, 19 Jun 2006 13:22:00 -0600, "Michael Pilla"
> wrote:

>>
>> --
>>
>> FF
>
>I wonder if the thin glass skin, over the plywood, would eliminate the
>sagging 'tween rib bays that a Pulsar builder experienced. He was skilled
>at woodworking, IIRC, but complained about sagging 'tween rib bats in humid
>weather. I don't know the details, unfortunately.
>
Probably coating the entire plywood covered wing, inside and out with
cladding epoxy would eliminate the changes brought on by humidity
variations.
>

[Ron Webb]

> Probably coating the entire plywood covered wing, inside and out with
> cladding epoxy would eliminate the changes brought on by humidity
> variations.


You may be familiar with "Wood/Epoxy Saturation Technique"
That has been used in boat building for decades?

How about "WEST systems" epoxy?

Yep - that's where the "WEST" in WEST systems comes from.

The wood gets soaked all the way through, so the wood is just there for
support, and it seems to last forever.
I BOILED some samples for 24 hours with no degradation other than a bit of
color change. Add light fiberglass over that...

[Lou]

Well, maybe no sense right away, but the plans where drawn quite a
while ago. Like the Emeraude, the invention of fiberglass hadn't
arrived yet. Although I agree with the statement of making it as light
as possible, one of the reason's for this post is to discuss weight.
If this can be done with little or no weight penalty, then I thought I
would consider the experimental part of this group. After all, if Tony
Bingelis did it with good results, then why not consider it? I like the
idea of smoother, flatter, and more solid wings. If it turns out to be
25lbs or more, then I have to re-think this or just consider going on a
diet.
Lou

[David Lamphere]

If you are building an Emeraude, you must have really good taste! That is
one beautiful
aircraft. My advice is if you are completely covering the wing with
plywood - then put on a lightweight covering of fibreglas and West epoxy. If
you are going the partial sheeted, cap strip, open bay route - stick with a
light dacron (heat shrunk) covering system like SuperFlite or something
similar.. it will look nice! Just be sure to follow the manufacturers
instructions procedure/temperature-wise.

Dave
<Wittman W10 Tailwind builder>

"Lou" > wrote in message
ps.com...
> Well, maybe no sense right away, but the plans where drawn quite a
> while ago. Like the Emeraude, the invention of fiberglass hadn't
> arrived yet. Although I agree with the statement of making it as light
> as possible, one of the reason's for this post is to discuss weight.
> If this can be done with little or no weight penalty, then I thought I
> would consider the experimental part of this group. After all, if Tony
> Bingelis did it with good results, then why not consider it? I like the
> idea of smoother, flatter, and more solid wings. If it turns out to be
> 25lbs or more, then I have to re-think this or just consider going on a
> diet.
> Lou
>

[Rich S.]

"Lou" > wrote in message
ps.com...
> Well, maybe no sense right away, but the plans where drawn quite a
> while ago. Like the Emeraude, the invention of fiberglass hadn't
> arrived yet. Although I agree with the statement of making it as light
> as possible, one of the reason's for this post is to discuss weight.
> If this can be done with little or no weight penalty, then I thought I
> would consider the experimental part of this group. After all, if Tony
> Bingelis did it with good results, then why not consider it? I like the
> idea of smoother, flatter, and more solid wings. If it turns out to be
> 25lbs or more, then I have to re-think this or just consider going on a
> diet.

I understand where you're coming from, Lou - having had the same dilemma
myself while building the Emeraude. Fortunately we have a good builder
support group who could advise me on the nuances of that particular design.

Covering a wing with plywood that was originally designed for fabric and
open bays, will do more than change the appearance. An aircraft designer has
planned for the weight distribution (hence stress distribution) across the
span and chord. Skinning the wing will change both of those. You may
actually end up with a wing that is heavier, weaker and slower than before.
Do not make these design changes casually. Orville and Wilbur were
successful due to engineering, not trial and error.

First, ask yourself "What am I intending to accomplish by doing this?" Any
change requires more build time and usually more money. There can be other
penalties as well. If you're into engineering and test piloting as a hobby,
knock yourself out. It's your time, money and neck.

Re-engineering an older design can have no limit. Look at the fiberglass
version of the Beech 17 Staggerwing as an example. If you contemplate
changing a fabric wing to a skinned wing, why not go carbon fiber? How about
Nanotubes? :) Keep the end goal in sight.

Good Luck with your project!

Rich

P.S. The CAP-10C, the newest version of the Emeraude, now has a carbon fiber
spar.

[[email protected]]

Ron Webb wrote:
> > Probably coating the entire plywood covered wing, inside and out with
> > cladding epoxy would eliminate the changes brought on by humidity
> > variations.

In furniture making it is considered important to finish both sides
of a piece of wood the same to maximize dimentional stability.
Otherwise the rate at which moisture enters or leaves one side
of the board is different from the other so that whenever there
is a rapid change in humidity one side swells more than the other.

IOW, I tend to agree with the statement above, but the same
would be true for varnish, shellac, paint etc, so long as it was
the same inside and out, and the wing was vented so that the
humidity inside the wing was the same as outside.

Of course the sun only shines on (and dries) the outside.

>
>
> You may be familiar with "Wood/Epoxy Saturation Technique"
> That has been used in boat building for decades?
>
> How about "WEST systems" epoxy?
>
> Yep - that's where the "WEST" in WEST systems comes from.
>
> The wood gets soaked all the way through, so the wood is just there for
> support, and it seems to last forever.

Hve you tried cutting through a sample? My understanding is that the
epoxy will not penetrate any deeper than 1/16" through side grain,
and it would be VERY unlikely to penetrate past the glue beneath
the surface veneer in plywood. It woudl penetrate farther up the
endgrain, but since epoxy hardens pretty fast I doubt it would get
very fat that way either. You can saturate a board with linseed oil,
or mos taly oil, by leaving one end in a bowl of oil overnight.

> I BOILED some samples for 24 hours with no degradation other than a bit of
> color change. Add light fiberglass over that...

Did you compare bending strength before and after? What is the
glass transition temperature for WEST system epoxy?

No question that it's good stuff, but it's not magic.

---

FF

[J.Kahn]

Rich S. wrote:
> "Lou" > wrote in message
> ps.com...
>
>>Well, maybe no sense right away, but the plans where drawn quite a
>>while ago. Like the Emeraude, the invention of fiberglass hadn't
>>arrived yet. Although I agree with the statement of making it as light
>>as possible, one of the reason's for this post is to discuss weight.
>>If this can be done with little or no weight penalty, then I thought I
>>would consider the experimental part of this group. After all, if Tony
>>Bingelis did it with good results, then why not consider it? I like the
>>idea of smoother, flatter, and more solid wings. If it turns out to be
>>25lbs or more, then I have to re-think this or just consider going on a
>>diet.
>
>
> I understand where you're coming from, Lou - having had the same dilemma
> myself while building the Emeraude. Fortunately we have a good builder
> support group who could advise me on the nuances of that particular design.
>
> Covering a wing with plywood that was originally designed for fabric and
> open bays, will do more than change the appearance. An aircraft designer has
> planned for the weight distribution (hence stress distribution) across the
> span and chord. Skinning the wing will change both of those. You may
> actually end up with a wing that is heavier, weaker and slower than before.
> Do not make these design changes casually. Orville and Wilbur were
> successful due to engineering, not trial and error.
>
> First, ask yourself "What am I intending to accomplish by doing this?" Any
> change requires more build time and usually more money. There can be other
> penalties as well. If you're into engineering and test piloting as a hobby,
> knock yourself out. It's your time, money and neck.
>
> Re-engineering an older design can have no limit. Look at the fiberglass
> version of the Beech 17 Staggerwing as an example. If you contemplate
> changing a fabric wing to a skinned wing, why not go carbon fiber? How about
> Nanotubes? :) Keep the end goal in sight.
>
> Good Luck with your project!
>
> Rich
>
> P.S. The CAP-10C, the newest version of the Emeraude, now has a carbon fiber
> spar.
>
>
Does it use that "pulltruded" carbon rod stuff for caps? That stuff is
incredibly strong, far superior to carbon roving in compression and tension.

John

[Dan Horton]

Applying glass over ply skins results in a solid base for a
beautiful finish. Agree about the peel ply for sure.

The inside of the plywood should be sealed. Take a look at System
Three Clear Coat. Pure epoxy, water thin, first coat soaks in a lot.
Two coats does a nice job sealing plywood. Compatable with T-88 even
as a wet coat. In other words, you can paint the second layer of
ClearCoat on the ply skin, apply T-88 to rib caps, and bond
immediately. The other way is to squeege T-88 on to the ply. I guess
any epoxy might work as a sealer, but I like compatability at the rib
line bonds.

Dan Horton

[Ron Webb]

>> I BOILED some samples for 24 hours with no degradation other than a bit
>> of
>> color change. Add light fiberglass over that...
>
> Did you compare bending strength before and after? What is the
> glass transition temperature for WEST system epoxy?
>

Well, actually I made up a long sample with 2 1" wide strips glued (with
fillet) together at a 90 degree angle. Then
I cut this into samples, each about 1" long. Then I took these little "T"
shaped samples, and subjected them to all sorts of things.

They were made of Finnish Birch 3 ply (3mm thick, but quite dense.) It
looked like it had penetrated to me - and they sure stayed together fine. I
boiled several of them, and broke them afterward. The wood gave before the
glue in all cases.

I've also tried this with 1/8" Okume. Same result, but that stuff is porous
enough that I'm pretty sure it soaks all the way through. I've been meaning
to try it with that unfinished mahogany indoor plywood. If that "soaks all
the way through" stuff works, it would be usable as a core, so I could use
much cheaper material (for boats at least).

As for the glass transition temperature, I think most epoxies are in the
140F range. After they cool they will return to much the same condition they
were before though. The extra cure may even be beneficial. That's just a
dull memory though. Correct me if I need it, but the boiled samples really
did stand up fine (I'm looking at one now).

[Rich S.]

"J.Kahn" > wrote in message
...>> Rich
>>
>> P.S. The CAP-10C, the newest version of the Emeraude, now has a carbon
>> fiber spar.
> Does it use that "pulltruded" carbon rod stuff for caps? That stuff is
> incredibly strong, far superior to carbon roving in compression and
> tension.

I don't know. The website of Mudry Aviation has disappeared and I think the
company has been sold. I haven't had occasion to look it up.

Rich S.

[Lou]

Ok, everyone, I've started to experiment with fiberglass. I bought the
foam, the fabric,hardner and resin. I've mix the resin and hardener
with micro balloons and came up with something that resembles honey
dijon salad dressing. I've put it on the foam, layed down the fabric
and then had to mix more resin and hardener. Put that mix on top and
spread it around. Layed down another layer of fabric, mixed more
resin/hardener, spead it around and layed down dacron.
Now the big question, Does this sound correct? Can anyone tell me if
I missed a step? This so far is a test piece, but I know what I can use
it for. I am kinda suprised of how flexable the fiished product is.
Lou

[Stealth Pilot]

On 25 Jun 2006 03:53:58 -0700, "Lou" > wrote:

>Ok, everyone, I've started to experiment with fiberglass. I bought the
>foam, the fabric,hardner and resin. I've mix the resin and hardener
>with micro balloons and came up with something that resembles honey
>dijon salad dressing. I've put it on the foam, layed down the fabric
>and then had to mix more resin and hardener. Put that mix on top and
>spread it around. Layed down another layer of fabric, mixed more
>resin/hardener, spead it around and layed down dacron.
> Now the big question, Does this sound correct? Can anyone tell me if
>I missed a step? This so far is a test piece, but I know what I can use
>it for. I am kinda suprised of how flexable the fiished product is.
> Lou

nah you've got it totally wrong :-)
y' dont Fiish the bloody stuff you squeegee it out thin.
pretend it's a million dollars a litre and make it extend as far as
possible.
remember "not white, not wet"

forget how flexible it is until it cures.
how heavy is it?

Stealth (glad it's him not me) Pilot

[Ernest Christley]

Lou wrote:
> Ok, everyone, I've started to experiment with fiberglass. I bought the
> foam, the fabric,hardner and resin. I've mix the resin and hardener
> with micro balloons and came up with something that resembles honey
> dijon salad dressing. I've put it on the foam, layed down the fabric
> and then had to mix more resin and hardener. Put that mix on top and
> spread it around. Layed down another layer of fabric, mixed more
> resin/hardener, spead it around and layed down dacron.
> Now the big question, Does this sound correct? Can anyone tell me if
> I missed a step? This so far is a test piece, but I know what I can use
> it for. I am kinda suprised of how flexable the fiished product is.
> Lou
>

Put a layer of glass on the other side of the foam, then come back and
tell us how flexible it is.

Warning: Make d8mn sure you have the thing jigged to it's finished
position before the opposite side glass sets.

--
This is by far the hardest lesson about freedom. It goes against
instinct, and morality, to just sit back and watch people make
mistakes. We want to help them, which means control them and their
decisions, but in doing so we actually hurt them (and ourselves)."

[Ed Sullivan]

On Tue, 27 Jun 2006 03:49:36 GMT, Ernest Christley
> wrote:


>>
>
>Put a layer of glass on the other side of the foam, then come back and
>tell us how flexible it is.
>
>Warning: Make d8mn sure you have the thing jigged to it's finished
>position before the opposite side glass sets.

I made a couple of test panels on 1/4" Clark foam using one layer of
heavier glass and one layer of model airplane glass on each side. You
could lay a 6" x 18" panel across two bricks and stand on it with out
much deflection. I figured it was good enough for a fuel tank, it has
held up for twenty years.

[Lou]

Thanks, I did layer up the other side and was quite suprised of the
stiffness. So far every piece will be flat, then cut to size and
glassed together, so it seems to be working out. Unfortunatley it's
been just under 70 deg. around here and especially in my basement so I
bought some 2 inch foam and a small heater. I made a make/shift oven to
help cure the fiberglass. I happen to have a remote thermometer inside
to watch the temp. It's been working out great.
Lou

[cavelamb]

Lou wrote:
> Thanks, I did layer up the other side and was quite suprised of the
> stiffness. So far every piece will be flat, then cut to size and
> glassed together, so it seems to be working out. Unfortunatley it's
> been just under 70 deg. around here and especially in my basement so I
> bought some 2 inch foam and a small heater. I made a make/shift oven to
> help cure the fiberglass. I happen to have a remote thermometer inside
> to watch the temp. It's been working out great.
> Lou
>

Do it again, Lou.
Hey, it's fun, right?

Slice off a few long 1x2's and glass each differently.

One layer of BID each side.
Two layers each side.
Three layers should do the trick.

Also try the same with UNI.
Like for building spar caps.
A single layer of BID on the long sides (the 2" sides)
and UNI on the top and bottom for capstrips...


Then try some deep compound curves!

There are a couple of articles on one-off cowling construction on my CD.
You can find it at:
/


Richard

[Lou]

Hey Caveman,
I tried your link but got nothing. Removed what I was supposed to and
still nothing.
Got Link?

[cavelamb]

wrote:
> Lou wrote:
>
>>Hey Caveman,
>> I tried your link but got nothing. Removed what I was supposed to and
>>still nothing.
>>Got Link?
>
>
> I noticed that one has to scroll down the page to find the
> files to be downloaded.
>
> But not until the second time I tried the link.
>

Well, it works for me...

Like Fred said, scroll down the page a bit...

Richard