worth learning to fly gliders?

[Emily]

Haven't actually flown VFR much for years, except while instructing. I
really only fly to go somewhere, but have been toying with the idea of a
glider rating for a while. Is it worth it? The glider clubs I've
talked to find out I'm an A&P and want me to maintain their aircraft,
something I'm not willing to do. Are clubs the only way to fly gliders?
I kind of just want to do my lesson and go home, and not worry about
"working" at the airfield.

[[email protected]]

Emily wrote:
> Haven't actually flown VFR much for years, except while instructing. I
> really only fly to go somewhere, but have been toying with the idea of a
> glider rating for a while. Is it worth it? The glider clubs I've
> talked to find out I'm an A&P and want me to maintain their aircraft,
> something I'm not willing to do. Are clubs the only way to fly gliders?
> I kind of just want to do my lesson and go home, and not worry about
> "working" at the airfield.

Obviously it's a matter of taste, but I might turn the question around:
Is it worth learning to fly Cessnas?

I have had a glider rating for 12 years, logged well over 2000 hours,
and hardly ever been tempted to get my SEL. Admittedly, I fly a motor
glider so I've been able to fly from my home base in the SF Bay Area to
the Grand Canyon, the Tetons, Santa Fe and other distant points. But
each flight is interesting from takeoff to landing.

There are no autopilots or other boredom inducing devices. I'm
constantly playing the air currents (even with the engine on), flying
close to stall (in thermals), close to Vne (in strong sink), etc.
Flying so much of the ship's envelope on a constant basis is not only
fun, it enhances pilot performance since you become intimately
acquainted with flight in those regimes seldom visited by power pilots.
All power pilots I know who also are glider rated feel that their
glider experience has made them better power pilots as well.

Turning to your question of clubs and work load, there are a number of
commercial glider operations where, at the end of the flight you say
"Thanks" and walk away with no work to do. Admittedly it's more
expensive than the clubs, but still a lot cheaper than power flying. To
find an operation near you, go to www.ssa.org and click on "Find Where
to Fly" on the
RHS. Or the direct link to that page is

http://www.ssa.org/sport/wheretofly.asp

With all your power experience you should be able to get a glider
rating in just a few days of concentrated work. If you have the
vacation time and a few bucks, make a reservation at a place like Soar
Minden and get your rating. The views of Lake Tahoe and the Sierra
Nevada Mountains, not to mention the generally reliable lift in the
summer will make it a memorable experience. If you have a family, they
can tour the lake and other attractions while you learn to soar.

If you can stand up for what you're willing to do (e.g., instruct) and
not do (e.g., maintenance), then even a club can work. Though I can see
why a club would salivate at getting a CFI (and hopefully a soon to be
CFIG) and an A&P member. Just be firm!

If you need more info, send me a private email and I'd be happy to
help.

Martin

[Matt Whiting]

wrote:

> Emily wrote:
>
>>Haven't actually flown VFR much for years, except while instructing. I
>>really only fly to go somewhere, but have been toying with the idea of a
>>glider rating for a while. Is it worth it? The glider clubs I've
>>talked to find out I'm an A&P and want me to maintain their aircraft,
>>something I'm not willing to do. Are clubs the only way to fly gliders?
>> I kind of just want to do my lesson and go home, and not worry about
>>"working" at the airfield.
>
>
> Obviously it's a matter of taste, but I might turn the question around:
> Is it worth learning to fly Cessnas?

I can't imagine anything that isn't worth learning to fly! It is just a
matter of available time and money. I even think balloons would be fun.

Matt

[Emily]

Matt Whiting wrote:
> wrote:
>
>> Emily wrote:
>>
>>> Haven't actually flown VFR much for years, except while instructing. I
>>> really only fly to go somewhere, but have been toying with the idea of a
>>> glider rating for a while. Is it worth it? The glider clubs I've
>>> talked to find out I'm an A&P and want me to maintain their aircraft,
>>> something I'm not willing to do. Are clubs the only way to fly gliders?
>>> I kind of just want to do my lesson and go home, and not worry about
>>> "working" at the airfield.
>>
>>
>> Obviously it's a matter of taste, but I might turn the question around:
>> Is it worth learning to fly Cessnas?
>
> I can't imagine anything that isn't worth learning to fly! It is just a
> matter of available time and money. I even think balloons would be fun.
>
> Matt
Eh, I'm terrified of heights, so I'll be staying out of balloons until I
die. :-)

[Emily]

wrote:
> Emily wrote:
\<snip>
>
> If you can stand up for what you're willing to do (e.g., instruct) and
> not do (e.g., maintenance), then even a club can work. Though I can see
> why a club would salivate at getting a CFI (and hopefully a soon to be
> CFIG) and an A&P member. Just be firm!
>
> If you need more info, send me a private email and I'd be happy to
> help.
>
> Martin
>

Thank you for all the info! I'm pretty much stuck at home for a while,
since we're short of help at the office. I'll be doing this local. I
recently moved, and haven't checked out glider operations in north
Texas, but it's on the list of things to do.

[BTIZ]

Emily.. I'll agree with Martin..
clubs are the way to go, but most clubs that are small need help...
you just have to agree with what you will and will not do..
we had a member that treated his club like a commercial operation..
and expected the gliders to be ready on the line when he showed up to fly..
needless to say he is not in the club any more.

We do have members that come, fly and go home, but they also help launch,
get the gliders out in the morning, and put them away at night, if they are
the first or last to fly. We don't see them on "annual inspection" days, or
club clean up days.. and we don't expect to see them.

If you are in the SW, look us up.

BT
LVVSA


> wrote in message
ups.com...
> Emily wrote:
>> Haven't actually flown VFR much for years, except while instructing. I
>> really only fly to go somewhere, but have been toying with the idea of a
>> glider rating for a while. Is it worth it? The glider clubs I've
>> talked to find out I'm an A&P and want me to maintain their aircraft,
>> something I'm not willing to do. Are clubs the only way to fly gliders?
>> I kind of just want to do my lesson and go home, and not worry about
>> "working" at the airfield.
>
> Obviously it's a matter of taste, but I might turn the question around:
> Is it worth learning to fly Cessnas?
>
> I have had a glider rating for 12 years, logged well over 2000 hours,
> and hardly ever been tempted to get my SEL. Admittedly, I fly a motor
> glider so I've been able to fly from my home base in the SF Bay Area to
> the Grand Canyon, the Tetons, Santa Fe and other distant points. But
> each flight is interesting from takeoff to landing.
>
> There are no autopilots or other boredom inducing devices. I'm
> constantly playing the air currents (even with the engine on), flying
> close to stall (in thermals), close to Vne (in strong sink), etc.
> Flying so much of the ship's envelope on a constant basis is not only
> fun, it enhances pilot performance since you become intimately
> acquainted with flight in those regimes seldom visited by power pilots.
> All power pilots I know who also are glider rated feel that their
> glider experience has made them better power pilots as well.
>
> Turning to your question of clubs and work load, there are a number of
> commercial glider operations where, at the end of the flight you say
> "Thanks" and walk away with no work to do. Admittedly it's more
> expensive than the clubs, but still a lot cheaper than power flying. To
> find an operation near you, go to www.ssa.org and click on "Find Where
> to Fly" on the
> RHS. Or the direct link to that page is
>
> http://www.ssa.org/sport/wheretofly.asp
>
> With all your power experience you should be able to get a glider
> rating in just a few days of concentrated work. If you have the
> vacation time and a few bucks, make a reservation at a place like Soar
> Minden and get your rating. The views of Lake Tahoe and the Sierra
> Nevada Mountains, not to mention the generally reliable lift in the
> summer will make it a memorable experience. If you have a family, they
> can tour the lake and other attractions while you learn to soar.
>
> If you can stand up for what you're willing to do (e.g., instruct) and
> not do (e.g., maintenance), then even a club can work. Though I can see
> why a club would salivate at getting a CFI (and hopefully a soon to be
> CFIG) and an A&P member. Just be firm!
>
> If you need more info, send me a private email and I'd be happy to
> help.
>
> Martin
>

[BTIZ]

I should ask... have you posted to rec.aviation.soaring?
BT

"Emily" > wrote in message
. ..
> Haven't actually flown VFR much for years, except while instructing. I
> really only fly to go somewhere, but have been toying with the idea of a
> glider rating for a while. Is it worth it? The glider clubs I've talked
> to find out I'm an A&P and want me to maintain their aircraft, something
> I'm not willing to do. Are clubs the only way to fly gliders? I kind of
> just want to do my lesson and go home, and not worry about "working" at
> the airfield.

[Emily]

BTIZ wrote:
> I should ask... have you posted to rec.aviation.soaring?

I didn't know there was such a group. I've lurked here for something
like seven years, and occasionally post. I'll check that out!

[Stefan]

Emily schrieb:

> Is it worth it?

If you just want to add another rating to your collection to show off to
the girls, no. If you're really looking for the experience of soaring,
definitely yes.

But soaring isn't just "go there, do my lesson and go home". Soaring
takes the better part of a day, and the need of friends which help to
rig the glider in the morning, de-rig in the evening and possibly
retrieve from an outlanding. (And a very tolerant wife!)

There are clubs and there are commercial operations. As always: Clubs
are cheaper money-wise but make this up by voluntary work. There's no
free lunch.

At http://www.ssa.org you'll find a list of clubs as well as commercial
operations. Pick your choice. You can also look into rec.aviation.soaring.

A last word: You should definitely look for an operation (club or
commercial) which a) has a modern fleet and b) encourages cross country
flying. Otherwise you'll miss the best part of the joy of soaring.

Stefan

[zatatime]

On Sat, 17 Jun 2006 19:39:09 -0500, Emily >
wrote:

>Haven't actually flown VFR much for years, except while instructing. I
>really only fly to go somewhere, but have been toying with the idea of a
>glider rating for a while. Is it worth it? The glider clubs I've
>talked to find out I'm an A&P and want me to maintain their aircraft,
>something I'm not willing to do. Are clubs the only way to fly gliders?
> I kind of just want to do my lesson and go home, and not worry about
>"working" at the airfield.

One of the best decisions I made after getting my CFI was to get a
glider rating instead of multi-engine. Flying gliders really
reinforces the concept of flying the wing, coordination, planning
ahead and energy management. Along with being very educational, it
was an absolute BLAST and I would highly recommend it.

I learned from a club. I helped where I could, but there was never
any pressure to do more than offered. A&Ps help save a club a bunch
of money if they volunteer in a maintenance capacity, but I'd think
you could pass on being the club A&P without too much problem.

Good luck on your quest.
z

[C. Massey]

"Emily" > wrote in message
. ..
> wrote:
>> Emily wrote:
> \<snip>
>>
>> If you can stand up for what you're willing to do (e.g., instruct) and
>> not do (e.g., maintenance), then even a club can work. Though I can see
>> why a club would salivate at getting a CFI (and hopefully a soon to be
>> CFIG) and an A&P member. Just be firm!
>>
>> If you need more info, send me a private email and I'd be happy to
>> help.
>>
>> Martin
>>
>
> Thank you for all the info! I'm pretty much stuck at home for a while,
> since we're short of help at the office. I'll be doing this local. I
> recently moved, and haven't checked out glider operations in north Texas,
> but it's on the list of things to do.


I'm in Ft. Worth and although not rated as a pilot for any aircraft, I am an
A&P.

I know the airport in Decatur has a glider club and there is a huge club (?)
somewhere around Mesquite. I'm sure there are more, but these are two that I
know of.

I will add that my cousin belongs to the club in Decatur and has taken me up
once. This has to be the most fun thing that I have ever done. It was a
blast. I have flown with him quite a bit in powered aircraft, but there is
nothing like being in a glider...




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[Emily]

zatatime wrote:
> On Sat, 17 Jun 2006 19:39:09 -0500, Emily >
> wrote:
>
<snip>
> I learned from a club. I helped where I could, but there was never
> any pressure to do more than offered. A&Ps help save a club a bunch
> of money if they volunteer in a maintenance capacity, but I'd think
> you could pass on being the club A&P without too much problem.

I do understand that, and I feel guilty, but I also need to think about
liability. The planes I saw weren't exactly maintained like the
aircraft I'm used to (airlines) and my ticket means more to me than
helping a club save a few bucks.

[Emily]

C. Massey wrote:
> "Emily" > wrote in message
> . ..
>> wrote:
>>> Emily wrote:
>> \<snip>
>>> If you can stand up for what you're willing to do (e.g., instruct) and
>>> not do (e.g., maintenance), then even a club can work. Though I can see
>>> why a club would salivate at getting a CFI (and hopefully a soon to be
>>> CFIG) and an A&P member. Just be firm!
>>>
>>> If you need more info, send me a private email and I'd be happy to
>>> help.
>>>
>>> Martin
>>>
>> Thank you for all the info! I'm pretty much stuck at home for a while,
>> since we're short of help at the office. I'll be doing this local. I
>> recently moved, and haven't checked out glider operations in north Texas,
>> but it's on the list of things to do.
>
>
> I'm in Ft. Worth and although not rated as a pilot for any aircraft, I am an
> A&P.
>
> I know the airport in Decatur has a glider club and there is a huge club (?)
> somewhere around Mesquite. I'm sure there are more, but these are two that I
> know of.

Caddo Mills, right? I've landed there in an airplane before. I thought
there was one up north, but an internet search didn't turn up anything.
Don't know where Decatur is.

[zatatime]

On Sun, 18 Jun 2006 18:23:59 -0500, Emily >
wrote:

>zatatime wrote:
>> On Sat, 17 Jun 2006 19:39:09 -0500, Emily >
>> wrote:
>>
><snip>
>> I learned from a club. I helped where I could, but there was never
>> any pressure to do more than offered. A&Ps help save a club a bunch
>> of money if they volunteer in a maintenance capacity, but I'd think
>> you could pass on being the club A&P without too much problem.
>
>I do understand that, and I feel guilty, but I also need to think about
>liability. The planes I saw weren't exactly maintained like the
>aircraft I'm used to (airlines) and my ticket means more to me than
>helping a club save a few bucks.


I don't blame you and completely understand (don't feel guilty).
Without your job, you couldn't afford to glide! Someone else said to
just be firm. I agree and think you can do it in a polite way. If
the club is fairly large, you should be ok, and I'd hope they
understand your position.

z

[Mike Schumann]

The difference between power planes and gliders is similar to the difference
between having a small motorboat vs. a similarly sized sailboat on a lake.
After two or three laps in the motorboat, the fun is gone. You can go
sailing for years.

Others have pointed out the pluses and minuses of a commercial vs. club
operation. In addition to limiting the amount of personal time invested, a
commercial operation usually gives you the option to fly during the week
(most clubs are primarily weekend operations), making it possible to get
your rating in a much shorter period of time than thru a club using
volunteer instructors.

On the other hand, a lot of the fun of soaring is hanging out at the field
in a club environment and helping out with launching / retrieving gliders,
etc..... Another option, if you have sufficient hours, is to help out by
acting as a tow pilot.

Mike Schumann

"Emily" > wrote in message
. ..
> Haven't actually flown VFR much for years, except while instructing. I
> really only fly to go somewhere, but have been toying with the idea of a
> glider rating for a while. Is it worth it? The glider clubs I've talked
> to find out I'm an A&P and want me to maintain their aircraft, something
> I'm not willing to do. Are clubs the only way to fly gliders? I kind of
> just want to do my lesson and go home, and not worry about "working" at
> the airfield.

[Dylan Smith]

On 2006-06-18, Emily > wrote:
> Haven't actually flown VFR much for years, except while instructing. I
> really only fly to go somewhere, but have been toying with the idea of a
> glider rating for a while. Is it worth it?

There are commercial operations which are just like a regular FBO, but
they are not as common as a club. You can always tell the club when you
join that yes, I'm an A&P, but no, I'm not doing your maintenance
(although generally in a club environment, everyone has to muck in
somehow - but there are plenty of other non-A&P jobs to be done such as
flying the tow plane to running wings).

As for whether soaring is worth it, I'll just let my videos speak for
that. You'll need an MPEG-4 video player - if you don't have one get VLC
- http://www.videolan.org - which is a free open source MPEG-4 player.

http://www.alioth.net/Video/AGC2005.mp4
http://www.alioth.net/Video/HatCam.mp4

(There's a few others in http://www.alioth.net/Video)

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