Pylon 8 problem

[gatt]

Hey, all, I'm having a problem.

Before the winter weather grounded me for a couple of months, I was nailing
Pylon 8s (for the commercial test) almost from the moment they were
demonstrated to me.

Now I've got everything else down, but the easiest *$@#^&! manuever of them
all for me is suddenly giving me trouble. Now, all of a sudden, I can't
seem to keep my turn radii rational. Ie, I used to have no problem keeping
the reference point at its place on the wingtip but now my turns are wide
and I keep having to correct.

I've tried shortening the distance between reference points, reducing power
slightly and adjusting my altitude, but what I really want to know is what
exacty I'm doing wrong all of a sudden. My instructor, unfortunately, isn't
around this week and I won't be able to consult him before my next practice
flight.

Any tips?

-c

[Bob Gardner]

Don't fully understand your problem, but there is nothing in the PTS about
radius. 8's around pylons require constant radius, but 8's ON pylons do not.
Pivotal altitude goes up and down, of course.

Bob Gardner

"gatt" > wrote in message
...
>
> Hey, all, I'm having a problem.
>
> Before the winter weather grounded me for a couple of months, I was
> nailing Pylon 8s (for the commercial test) almost from the moment they
> were demonstrated to me.
>
> Now I've got everything else down, but the easiest *$@#^&! manuever of
> them all for me is suddenly giving me trouble. Now, all of a sudden, I
> can't seem to keep my turn radii rational. Ie, I used to have no problem
> keeping the reference point at its place on the wingtip but now my turns
> are wide and I keep having to correct.
>
> I've tried shortening the distance between reference points, reducing
> power slightly and adjusting my altitude, but what I really want to know
> is what exacty I'm doing wrong all of a sudden. My instructor,
> unfortunately, isn't around this week and I won't be able to consult him
> before my next practice flight.
>
> Any tips?
>
> -c
>

[Cecil E. Chapman, Jr.]

With 8's on Pylons, which is what I presume you are referring to I have a
few things to offer:

Make sure you are at the correct piviotal altitude which if you'll recall
from your study is a function of groundspeed. Remember: Piviotal Altitude
= groundspeed (squared) divided by 11.3 (for a groundspeed that is in
knots). This will give you the AGL piviotal altitude. Remember that
piviotal altitude is a function of groundspeed and if groundspeed increases
or decreases that piviotal altitude is affected as well.

First of all your reference line should lead from the pilot's eye to form a
line that is parallel with the wing, you should not be using the wingtip
(for a number of reasons).

If your pylon moves from your reference point, simply move the yoke in the
direction the pylon is moving. If it is moving forward, move the yoke
forward,,, if it is moving backwards,, move the yoke back. The most
important point to remember is that once the pylon is in line with your
reference point/line be sure to neutralize the yoke/stick input or you will
end up chasing the pylon in the opposite direction.

--
--
=-----
Good Flights!

Cecil E. Chapman
CP-ASEL-IA

Student - C.F.I.

Check out my personal flying adventures from my first flight to the
checkride AND the continuing adventures beyond!
Complete with pictures and text at: www.bayareapilot.com

"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery -

"We who fly, do so for the love of flying. We are alive in the air with
this miracle that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"
- Cecil Day Lewis -
"gatt" > wrote in message
...
>
> Hey, all, I'm having a problem.
>
> Before the winter weather grounded me for a couple of months, I was
> nailing Pylon 8s (for the commercial test) almost from the moment they
> were demonstrated to me.
>
> Now I've got everything else down, but the easiest *$@#^&! manuever of
> them all for me is suddenly giving me trouble. Now, all of a sudden, I
> can't seem to keep my turn radii rational. Ie, I used to have no problem
> keeping the reference point at its place on the wingtip but now my turns
> are wide and I keep having to correct.
>
> I've tried shortening the distance between reference points, reducing
> power slightly and adjusting my altitude, but what I really want to know
> is what exacty I'm doing wrong all of a sudden. My instructor,
> unfortunately, isn't around this week and I won't be able to consult him
> before my next practice flight.
>
> Any tips?
>
> -c
>

[gatt]

"Cecil E. Chapman, Jr." > wrote in message
. net...

> First of all your reference line should lead from the pilot's eye to form
> a line that is parallel with the wing, you should not be using the wingtip
> (for a number of reasons).

That might be my problem. At some point an instructor told me to "keep it
right on the wingtip so you don't lose it." Maybe I misinterpreted.

Thanks for your input, everybody. Have a glorious weekend!

-c

[gatt]

"Doogie" > wrote in message
ups.com...

> I found the best results came by flying the airplane almost entirely
> out you side window (of course occasionally scanning all directions for
> traffic). Put the wingtip on the pylon. When the pylon disappears
> above the tip, pull up and increase bank.

That's another one I'll try. Thanks.

(Except I fly a low wing, so if the pylon disappears above the tip, I'm
probably voiding my own warrantee :>...I'll adjust accordingly. )

-c

[Jose]

> At some point an instructor told me to "keep it
> right on the wingtip so you don't lose it."

For some aircraft, the wingtip might be an appropriate reference point.

Jose
--
The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the music.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[BTIZ]

Eights on Pylon...

if you are having problems with turns being to wide.. are flying them to
low?
what is the entering altitude for your speed.

BT

"gatt" > wrote in message
...
>
> Hey, all, I'm having a problem.
>
> Before the winter weather grounded me for a couple of months, I was
> nailing Pylon 8s (for the commercial test) almost from the moment they
> were demonstrated to me.
>
> Now I've got everything else down, but the easiest *$@#^&! manuever of
> them all for me is suddenly giving me trouble. Now, all of a sudden, I
> can't seem to keep my turn radii rational. Ie, I used to have no problem
> keeping the reference point at its place on the wingtip but now my turns
> are wide and I keep having to correct.
>
> I've tried shortening the distance between reference points, reducing
> power slightly and adjusting my altitude, but what I really want to know
> is what exacty I'm doing wrong all of a sudden. My instructor,
> unfortunately, isn't around this week and I won't be able to consult him
> before my next practice flight.
>
> Any tips?
>
> -c
>

[gatt]

> wrote in message
ups.com...

> As an aside, here's my favorite trick for keeping the reference line on
> the pylon: imagine you're in a race with the pylon. But the objective
> isn't to win the race -- it's just to finish even. So, if the pylon is
> racing ahead of your reference line, what do you want to do? Speed up.
> So, pitch down to speed up. If the pylon is falling behind your
> reference line, you want to slow down so it can catch up. Pitch up to
> slow down and let it catch you. Fun!

Hey, that's a pretty cool memory aid! I'll have to give it a try. THANKS!

-c

[gatt]

"BTIZ" > wrote in message
news:iW1ng.15122$_c1.2728@fed1read05...
> Eights on Pylon...
>
> if you are having problems with turns being to wide.. are flying them to
> low? what is the entering altitude for your speed.

At that location I use 1,500 indicated which is about 1050' AGL, using
110mph^2 / 11.3. (The guy that figured that out truly IS a propellorhead.)
One problem is that the terrain is rolling hills and valleys so if I find
another point, I have to visually determine my height AGL -OR- check a good
topo map of the area in advance.

Got some encouraging advice here. Can't wait for the change to go fly and
try it out. (Actually, I can. The temps hit high 90s this weekend, which
roasts us webfooted Oregonians until we have a chance to get used to it.
That old bird is a sauna when it's that hot.)

-c