Calls on the radio

[Pascal]

Hello,

This might have been brought up in the newsgroup before but I couldn't
find anything about it.

When going to a new airport, the AD would have sometimes something like :
Monroe County Airport, Bloomington, IN

What call should I do ?
Monroe County tower, Cessna XXXX ...
or
Bloomington tower, Cessna XXXX ...

Usually if I listen to what's being said on the frequency before I talk
I could figure it out, but sometimes some airports don't have that much
traffic and it's a little harder to know what is the proper thing to say.


Thanks

[Roy Smith]

Pascal > wrote:
>Hello,
>
>This might have been brought up in the newsgroup before but I couldn't
>find anything about it.
>
>When going to a new airport, the AD would have sometimes something like :
>Monroe County Airport, Bloomington, IN

I would just call them Monroe Tower. Leave out the "County" part; it
doesn't add anything.

Consider the case of multiple airports in the same city; wouldn't it
be confusing if people called both Kennedy Tower and LaGuardia Tower,
"New York Tower"?

Another trick is to just call them "Tower", and wait to see how they
respond :-)

[Bob Noel]

In article >, Pascal > wrote:

> When going to a new airport, the AD would have sometimes something like :
> Monroe County Airport, Bloomington, IN
>
> What call should I do ?
> Monroe County tower, Cessna XXXX ...
> or
> Bloomington tower, Cessna XXXX ...
>
> Usually if I listen to what's being said on the frequency before I talk
> I could figure it out, but sometimes some airports don't have that much
> traffic and it's a little harder to know what is the proper thing to say.

They'll probably answer to either. I'm pretty sure people call KBED
"Hanscom" and "Bedford"... I'm quite certain I've used both - sometimes
in the same flight.

--
Bob Noel
Looking for a sig the
lawyers will hate

[Emily[_1_]]

Pascal wrote:
> Hello,
>
> This might have been brought up in the newsgroup before but I couldn't
> find anything about it.
>
> When going to a new airport, the AD

AD?

> Usually if I listen to what's being said on the frequency before I talk
> I could figure it out, but sometimes some airports don't have that much
> traffic and it's a little harder to know what is the proper thing to say.

I think it really depends. With something like BMG (or is it BMI?), you
should be able to tell from the ATIS. The only airport that I really
embarrassed myself at like that was HUF.

[Jose[_1_]]

>> When going to a new airport, the AD
>
>
> AD?

AF/D

Jose
--
The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the music.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Larry Dighera]

On Mon, 10 Jul 2006 17:08:41 -0400, Pascal > wrote
in >::

>
>When going to a new airport, the AD would have sometimes something like :
>Monroe County Airport, Bloomington, IN
>
>What call should I do ?
>Monroe County tower, Cessna XXXX ...
>or
>Bloomington tower, Cessna XXXX ...

If you look here: http://www.airnav.com/airport/KBMG
for Monroe County Airport, Bloomington, IN, you find it being called
Bloomington Tower.

Take a look at KSNA: http://www.airnav.com/airport/KSNA

While it indicates that the correct radio call is John Wayne Tower, I
prefer to call them Orange County or Santa Ana. I've never had any
difficulty.

[Gene Seibel]

How about, "Hey you guys....."
--
Gene Seibel
Tales of Flight - http://pad39a.com/gene/tales.html
Because I fly, I envy no one.


Pascal wrote:
> Hello,
>
> This might have been brought up in the newsgroup before but I couldn't
> find anything about it.
>
> When going to a new airport, the AD would have sometimes something like :
> Monroe County Airport, Bloomington, IN
>
> What call should I do ?
> Monroe County tower, Cessna XXXX ...
> or
> Bloomington tower, Cessna XXXX ...
>
> Usually if I listen to what's being said on the frequency before I talk
> I could figure it out, but sometimes some airports don't have that much
> traffic and it's a little harder to know what is the proper thing to say.
>
>
> Thanks

[Dale]

In article >, Pascal >
wrote:

> Hello,
>
> This might have been brought up in the newsgroup before but I couldn't
> find anything about it.
>
> When going to a new airport, the AD would have sometimes something like :
> Monroe County Airport, Bloomington, IN
>
> What call should I do ?
> Monroe County tower, Cessna XXXX ...
> or
> Bloomington tower, Cessna XXXX ...
>
> Usually if I listen to what's being said on the frequency before I talk
> I could figure it out, but sometimes some airports don't have that much
> traffic and it's a little harder to know what is the proper thing to say.
>
>
> Thanks

You should figure this out during your preflight prep. The A/FD would
be a good place to start.

[soxinbox[_1_]]

How about just "tower"?

"Pascal" > wrote in message
...
> Hello,
>
> This might have been brought up in the newsgroup before but I couldn't
> find anything about it.
>
> When going to a new airport, the AD would have sometimes something like :
> Monroe County Airport, Bloomington, IN
>
> What call should I do ?
> Monroe County tower, Cessna XXXX ...
> or
> Bloomington tower, Cessna XXXX ...
>
> Usually if I listen to what's being said on the frequency before I talk I
> could figure it out, but sometimes some airports don't have that much
> traffic and it's a little harder to know what is the proper thing to say.
>
>
> Thanks

[John[_4_]]

Bob Noel wrote:

> In article >, Pascal > wrote:
>
> > When going to a new airport, the AD would have sometimes something like :
> > Monroe County Airport, Bloomington, IN
> >
> > What call should I do ?
> > Monroe County tower, Cessna XXXX ...
> > or
> > Bloomington tower, Cessna XXXX ...
> >
> > Usually if I listen to what's being said on the frequency before I talk
> > I could figure it out, but sometimes some airports don't have that much
> > traffic and it's a little harder to know what is the proper thing to say.
>
> They'll probably answer to either. I'm pretty sure people call KBED
> "Hanscom" and "Bedford"... I'm quite certain I've used both - sometimes
> in the same flight.

When I'm talking about Hanscom (BED) to a TRACON, particularly if far away, I
usually say Bedford - Hanscom. I notice that even Boston TRACON says "enroute
to Bedford" and the like, although they refer to "Hanscom Tower." I figure the
extra syllables to say Hanscom are worth it when I'm far away, especially since
Bedford isn't uncommon and the "New Bedford airport" is also in eastern
Massachusetts. ("Take me home to BED works too.")

Of course if you really wanted to be a clown, you could say, "Laurence G.
Hanscom airport", which could easily be confused with Lawrence Muni, which is
nearby. Or the "(Major) General Ed Lawrence Logan airport," usually referred by
ATC as "Boston."

Some towers (and CTAFs for that matter) seem to use the locality name as their
callsign, and others sometimes use the airport name, (if there is a
difference). No rhyme or reason, just have to listen to what others are saying,
and take a guess if you don't know.

[tony roberts[_1_]]

From what I read here you haven't yet determined that they have a tower.
That should be determined during the flight planning so it shouldn't be
an issue.

Failing that, how about, "Monroe traffic . . ."


Tony

--

Tony Roberts
PP-ASEL
VFR OTT
Night
Cessna 172H C-GICE


In article >, Pascal >
wrote:

> Hello,
>
> This might have been brought up in the newsgroup before but I couldn't
> find anything about it.
>
> When going to a new airport, the AD would have sometimes something like :
> Monroe County Airport, Bloomington, IN
>
> What call should I do ?
> Monroe County tower, Cessna XXXX ...
> or
> Bloomington tower, Cessna XXXX ...
>
> Usually if I listen to what's being said on the frequency before I talk
> I could figure it out, but sometimes some airports don't have that much
> traffic and it's a little harder to know what is the proper thing to say.
>
>
> Thanks

[Emily[_1_]]

tony roberts wrote:
> From what I read here you haven't yet determined that they have a tower.
> That should be determined during the flight planning so it shouldn't be
> an issue.
>
> Failing that, how about, "Monroe traffic . . ."

I don't think tower would be very happy about that....

Airport is clearly marked on the sectional as having a tower.

[Michael Ware]

"Pascal" > wrote in message
...
> Hello,
>
> This might have been brought up in the newsgroup before but I couldn't
> find anything about it.
>
> When going to a new airport, the AD would have sometimes something like :
> Monroe County Airport, Bloomington, IN
>
> What call should I do ?
> Monroe County tower, Cessna XXXX ...
> or
> Bloomington tower, Cessna XXXX ...
>
> Usually if I listen to what's being said on the frequency before I talk
> I could figure it out, but sometimes some airports don't have that much
> traffic and it's a little harder to know what is the proper thing to say.
>
>
> Thanks

If you can't figure it out by listening, just use the 'formal' name of the
airport. If the facility commonly uses something else, they will correct
you, no harm done.

[Montblack[_1_]]

("Larry Dighera" wrote)
> If you look here: http://www.airnav.com/airport/KBMG for Monroe County
> Airport, Bloomington, IN, you find it being called Bloomington Tower.


http://www.airnav.com/airport/KFRH (No Tower)
KFRH - French Lick Municipal Airport, French Lick, Indiana.

http://www.airnav.com/airport/KBFR (No Tower)
KBFR - Virgil I Grissom Municipal Airport, Bedford, Indiana.

One is still a guess. :-)


Montblack

[Emily[_1_]]

Montblack wrote:
> ("Larry Dighera" wrote)
>> If you look here: http://www.airnav.com/airport/KBMG for Monroe County
>> Airport, Bloomington, IN, you find it being called Bloomington Tower.
>
>
> http://www.airnav.com/airport/KFRH (No Tower)
> KFRH - French Lick Municipal Airport, French Lick, Indiana.
>
> http://www.airnav.com/airport/KBFR (No Tower)
> KBFR - Virgil I Grissom Municipal Airport, Bedford, Indiana.
>
> One is still a guess. :-)

Yeah, but last I checked, Monroe County is BMG...which is towered.

But French Lick! Now THERE'S an airport I haven't heard mentioned in
forever!

[Steven P. McNicoll[_1_]]

"Pascal" > wrote in message
...
>
> This might have been brought up in the newsgroup before but I couldn't
> find anything about it.
>
> When going to a new airport, the AD would have sometimes something like :
> Monroe County Airport, Bloomington, IN
>
> What call should I do ?
> Monroe County tower, Cessna XXXX ...
> or
> Bloomington tower, Cessna XXXX ...
>
> Usually if I listen to what's being said on the frequency before I talk I
> could figure it out, but sometimes some airports don't have that much
> traffic and it's a little harder to know what is the proper thing to say.
>

Towers are usually addressed by the name of the primary municipality served.
Go with Bloomington Tower.

[Jay Honeck]

> Towers are usually addressed by the name of the primary municipality served.
> Go with Bloomington Tower.

Yeah, I thought so too, but the folks at Willow Run (in Michigan)
didn't care for me calling them "Yipsilanti Tower" a few weeks ago.

Too bad, cuz I really, REALLY enjoyed saying "Yipsilanti" on the
radio...

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Peter Duniho]

"Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote in message
nk.net...
> Towers are usually addressed by the name of the primary municipality
> served. Go with Bloomington Tower.

Define "usually". :p

Only two of the towered airports here in the Puget Sound area follow that
rule. Sea-Tac (serving Seattle), Boeing Field (serving Seattle), Paine
Field (serving Everett) all use the name of the airport. The only places
where the municipality served is used to address the tower, the municipality
name is actually *part* of the airport name (Olympia Airport and Bellingham
Airport).

My experience has been that the towers I've talked to (from coast to coast)
generally follow the rule that the airport name is used to address the
tower. Even that gets a little sketchy, if the airport has more than one
name for example (Boeing Field is aka King County International Airport,
while Paine Field is aka Snohomish County Airport). But generally speaking,
the only time I've used the municipality name to address the tower is when
that name is actually part of the airport name.

Going by the actual name of the airport has been MUCH more reliable for me
than the rule of thumb you suggest would have been.

Pete

[Brad[_1_]]

If I'm not sure of the name of the airport I generally use...

whatever the controller refered to it as during the hand-off, or

whatever it is refered to on AWOS, ATIS, or

the name of the city it serves, unless there are multiple airports
serving the city, in which case I use the proper name.

If it's a tower, they'll subtlely correct you. If you're making calls
on the CTAF, the locals will know where you are and the transcients
will likely be in the same shoes. Hedge your bets and use both if the
CTAF is quiet.



Pascal wrote:
> Hello,
>
> This might have been brought up in the newsgroup before but I couldn't
> find anything about it.
>
> When going to a new airport, the AD would have sometimes something like :
> Monroe County Airport, Bloomington, IN
>
> What call should I do ?
> Monroe County tower, Cessna XXXX ...
> or
> Bloomington tower, Cessna XXXX ...
>
> Usually if I listen to what's being said on the frequency before I talk
> I could figure it out, but sometimes some airports don't have that much
> traffic and it's a little harder to know what is the proper thing to say.
>
>
> Thanks

[B A R R Y[_1_]]

Bob Noel wrote:
>
> They'll probably answer to either. I'm pretty sure people call KBED
> "Hanscom" and "Bedford"... I'm quite certain I've used both - sometimes
> in the same flight.
>


Me: Barnes Tower...

BAF Tower: Westfield Tower, go ahead...

Me (next time): Westfield Tower...


I wouldn't sweat it. If there's no traffic to provide clues, they'll
probably answer to anything that even could remotely be directed at them.

[B A R R Y[_1_]]

Emily wrote:
>
> But French Lick! Now THERE'S an airport I haven't heard mentioned in
> forever!

That's because we're all from Hanover.

[Gene Seibel]

If in doubt I usually go with whatever is used on the ATIS or AWOS.
--
Gene Seibel
Tales of Flight - http://pad39a.com/gene/tales.html
Because I fly, I envy no one.


Pascal wrote:
> Hello,
>
> This might have been brought up in the newsgroup before but I couldn't
> find anything about it.
>
> When going to a new airport, the AD would have sometimes something like :
> Monroe County Airport, Bloomington, IN
>
> What call should I do ?
> Monroe County tower, Cessna XXXX ...
> or
> Bloomington tower, Cessna XXXX ...
>
> Usually if I listen to what's being said on the frequency before I talk
> I could figure it out, but sometimes some airports don't have that much
> traffic and it's a little harder to know what is the proper thing to say.
>
>
> Thanks

[Steven P. McNicoll[_1_]]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Yeah, I thought so too, but the folks at Willow Run (in Michigan)
> didn't care for me calling them "Yipsilanti Tower" a few weeks ago.
>

Towers are USUALLY addressed by the name of the primary municipality served.
By the way, the community of Willow Run is closer to the field than the city
of Ypsilanti.

[Doug[_1_]]

It's every which way. If you don't know, just muffle it and use what
they reply back with.

[Steven P. McNicoll[_1_]]

"Peter Duniho" > wrote in message
...
>
> Define "usually". :p
>

More often than any other.


>
> Only two of the towered airports here in the Puget Sound area follow that
> rule. Sea-Tac (serving Seattle), Boeing Field (serving Seattle), Paine
> Field (serving Everett) all use the name of the airport. The only places
> where the municipality served is used to address the tower, the
> municipality name is actually *part* of the airport name (Olympia Airport
> and Bellingham Airport).
>

Cities having more than one towered airport are probably the primary reason
it's "usually" and not "always".


>
> My experience has been that the towers I've talked to (from coast to
> coast) generally follow the rule that the airport name is used to address
> the tower. Even that gets a little sketchy, if the airport has more than
> one name for example (Boeing Field is aka King County International
> Airport, while Paine Field is aka Snohomish County Airport). But
> generally speaking, the only time I've used the municipality name to
> address the tower is when that name is actually part of the airport name.
>

Your observation will change as you gain experience.


>
> Going by the actual name of the airport has been MUCH more reliable for me
> than the rule of thumb you suggest would have been.
>

I didn't suggest anything.

[Jay Honeck]

> > Yeah, I thought so too, but the folks at Willow Run (in Michigan)
> > didn't care for me calling them "Yipsilanti Tower" a few weeks ago.
>
> Towers are USUALLY addressed by the name of the primary municipality served.
> By the way, the community of Willow Run is closer to the field than the city
> of Ypsilanti.

So why is the airport called "YIP"?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Steven P. McNicoll[_1_]]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> So why is the airport called "YIP"?
>

It isn't. It's called Willow Run Airport.

[Steven P. McNicoll[_1_]]

"Morgans" > wrote in message
...
>
> Took your A**hole pills today, I see, Stephen?
>

No. I see you're still imperceptive.


>
> That is the second backhand
> I have seen from you today.
>

What do you consider to be the first and how do you define "backhand"?

[Montblack[_1_]]

("Steven P. McNicoll" wrote)
>> Took your A**hole pills today, I see, Stephen?

> No. I see you're still imperceptive.


S.P.M. hits a well placed backhand, on the lob by Jim in NC, to break serve.


Montblack <g>

[Peter Duniho]

"Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>> Define "usually". :p
>
> More often than any other.

Well, then you are incorrect. In the Puget Sound alone there are more
airports NOT addressed by the municipality name than that are.

> Cities having more than one towered airport are probably the primary
> reason it's "usually" and not "always".

Wrong. There is only one towered airport in Everett, WA, and yet the tower
is not addressed as "Everett Tower". In Orlando, FL, where there are at
three towered airports, one IS addressed as "Orlando". There are so many
exceptions to your "rule" than the rule you're claiming is useless.

Your assertions are based on your own lack of knowledge and wishful
guesswork. They are hardly the product of actual information.

> Your observation will change as you gain experience.

No, it won't. I have sufficient experience flying all over the US to know
what "usually" is the case. And what IS usually the case is that towered
airports are addressed by their NAME. The municipality is irrelevant,
except inasmuch as it is often used as the NAME of the airport.

Telling someone to always use the municipality just because you believe
towered airports are usually named based on the municipality is stupid. I
might as well tell people to call their computer operating system "Windows"
just because most computers use Windows, even though the actual useful rule
would be to look and see what operating system is actually in use.

>> Going by the actual name of the airport has been MUCH more reliable for
>> me
>> than the rule of thumb you suggest would have been.
>
> I didn't suggest anything.

Of course you did. You certainly didn't state any sort of actual reliable
method for determining an answer to the original question. You were either
lying (which I don't believe is the case), or you were making a suggestion
as to how the original question might be answered.

I challenge you to demonstrate that in fact it is more reliable to use the
municipality name than the airport name to address the tower. All you have
to do is produce a list of every towered airport in the US, including their
name, the municipality, and the name used to address the tower and calculate
the percentage of that list in which the airport name matches the tower
address, and in which the municipality name matches the tower address. If
your rule is the correct one, then the percentage of matches for the
municipality name will be greater than the percentage of matches for the
airport name.

I'm sure that you cannot provide this data.

Pete

[Morgans[_3_]]

"Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>
> "Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> >
> > So why is the airport called "YIP"?
> >
>
> It isn't. It's called Willow Run Airport



So that is the identifier for Willow Run Airport. Nice nit.

Took your A**hole pills today, I see, Stephen? That is the second backhand
I have seen from you today.
--
Jim in NC

[Bob Noel]

In article >, Pascal > wrote:

> When going to a new airport, the AD would have sometimes something like :
> Monroe County Airport, Bloomington, IN
>
> What call should I do ?
> Monroe County tower, Cessna XXXX ...
> or
> Bloomington tower, Cessna XXXX ...

One thing you can do is look at the airport diagram available at:
http://www.naco.faa.gov/index.asp?xml=naco/online/d_tpp

In the case of Monroe County Airport, the airport diagram indicates
the tower name is Bloomington Tower.

--
Bob Noel
Looking for a sig the
lawyers will hate

[Bob Noel]

In article >,
"Peter Duniho" > wrote:

[snip]
> Of course you did. You certainly didn't state any sort of actual reliable
> method for determining an answer to the original question.

One thing you can do is look at the airport diagram (available at
http://www.naco.faa.gov/index.asp?xml=naco/online/d_tpp)

In the case of Monroe County Airport, the airport diagram indicates
the tower name is Bloomington Tower.

Note that at least one tower I know will answer to different names
(KBED's diagram indicates Hanscom tower, but they answer to Bedford
tower as well).

--
Bob Noel
Looking for a sig the
lawyers will hate

[Peter Duniho]

"Bob Noel" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Peter Duniho" > wrote:
>
> [snip]
>> Of course you did. You certainly didn't state any sort of actual
>> reliable
>> method for determining an answer to the original question.
>
> One thing you can do is look at the airport diagram (available at
> http://www.naco.faa.gov/index.asp?xml=naco/online/d_tpp)

That's an excellent point. That reference is a reliable place to find the
information originally asked for, and the airport diagrams are now available
in the A/FD as well as in the FLIP charts where they always were.

For that matter, the A/FD has the correct name to use printed in the
"Communications" section. Now that you mention it, I'm a little puzzled as
to why this thread exists at all. Obviously, I (along with apparently
everyone else) have internalized the information in the A/FD so thoroughly
that I (along with everyone else) forgot that they print the correct name to
use in there?

I mean, the original poster even seems to be referencing the A/FD
specifically (though he wrote "AD", I agree with Jose that it's a good guess
he really meant A/FD). How did this question even come up, when the correct
information is right there?

I think that collectively, the entire newsgroup needs to go sit in the
corner with our dunce caps on. Thanks Bob.

> In the case of Monroe County Airport, the airport diagram indicates
> the tower name is Bloomington Tower.

As does the A/FD entry.

> Note that at least one tower I know will answer to different names
> (KBED's diagram indicates Hanscom tower, but they answer to Bedford
> tower as well).

I imagine that pretty much any tower will answer to pretty much any radio
call on their frequency, regardless of what you call them, as long as you're
polite anyway. I'm sure that Paine Tower, for example, will respond to
Everett Tower, Snohomish County Tower, and Snohomish Tower. They will
probably tell you the correct designation (Paine) in their response, but no
real harm will come from using the wrong name.

Pete

[Jose[_1_]]

> I mean, the original poster even seems to be referencing the A/FD
> specifically (though he wrote "AD", I agree with Jose that it's a good guess
> he really meant A/FD). How did this question even come up, when the correct
> information is right there?

Maybe the AF/D is not correct. I've come across errors in it before;
reality trumps theory.

One of the more irksome errors is the TPA - if it is not listed in the
AF/D, it's supposed to be "standard". Well, standards have changed, but
practices haven't, so (for example) GBR (Great Barrington) had the TPA
unlisted, I assumed 1000 feet, but the locals use the old standard of
800 feet. Another aircraft right where I was got my attention real
fast, but I couldn't find her.

The AF/D gets its info from the airport manager, who may not even know
to supply it (after all, it's standard - it's been 800 feet since he was
a little boy).

I'm certain that there are airports where the locals call it one thing,
but the Feds call it something else.

Jose
--
The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the music.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Peter Duniho]

"Jose" > wrote in message
. net...
> Maybe the AF/D is not correct. I've come across errors in it before;
> reality trumps theory.

While I agree with your observation, the A/FD is the best resource available
absent first-hand knowledge. There is no substitute for knowing what the
reality is, but if you can't get that, the A/FD is the next best thing.

> One of the more irksome errors is the TPA - if it is not listed in the
> AF/D, it's supposed to be "standard".

Different people fly different TPAs for different reasons, and there is no
FAR that requires them to do otherwise. While each airport may have one or
more recommended TPAs, it would be unwise to expect each and every aircraft
operating at that airport to be using the published TPA, whether accurate or
not.

> [...]
> I'm certain that there are airports where the locals call it one thing,
> but the Feds call it something else.

Possible. For towered airports (which is the question here) I would guess
that's exceedingly uncommon. But even so, the A/FD is still a great
resource and the one pilots should be relying on if they don't have personal
first-hand knowledge or access to someone with that first-hand knowledge.

Pete

[Newps]

Jose wrote:


>
>
> Maybe the AF/D is not correct. I've come across errors in it before;
> reality trumps theory.

There's a lot of places to look if you care. If you're not sure just
use "tower."

>
> One of the more irksome errors is the TPA - if it is not listed in the
> AF/D, it's supposed to be "standard". Well, standards have changed, but
> practices haven't, so (for example) GBR (Great Barrington) had the TPA
> unlisted, I assumed 1000 feet, but the locals use the old standard of
> 800 feet. Another aircraft right where I was got my attention real
> fast, but I couldn't find her.

TPA is non regulatory, a suggestion only. I never bother to look at
TPA. I'm going to 1000 AGL at every airport unless there's some reason
not to.

[Pascal]

Peter,

I apologize, it was "A/FD" that I meant.

The purpose of my question was actually more based on something that
happened to me the other day.
I should have given a better example
I always fly from KBMG ( Bloomington, IN ) and it is true that the A/FD
states that it is "Blomington tower".
There's a small airport in the vicinity that is not a towered airport,
where I practice touch and goes sometimes. It is KBFR ( Befdord, IN ).
There's an AWOS that states "Grissom Municipal airport".
However most of the people when flying around call "Bedford traffic" and
I do too since this is what I had been told by my CFI.
If the AWOS doesn't work ( it has happened at that airport ), how would
I figure out that I should call "Bedford traffic" instead of "Grissom
traffic". There's usually noone at the Unicom on the ground to answer calls.

Of course, all of this is not a big deal and choosing one or the other
from the airport directory shouldn't make much difference usually but I
was just wondering how I could do the thing right at first.


Based on the multiple posts on this thread there doesn't seem to really
be a rule of thumb, so I guess and will try to choose the easier one to
pronounce until I hear something different from somone else.

Thanks




Peter Duniho wrote:

>"Bob Noel" > wrote in message
...
>
>
>>In article >,
>>"Peter Duniho" > wrote:
>>
>>[snip]
>>
>>
>>>Of course you did. You certainly didn't state any sort of actual
>>>reliable
>>>method for determining an answer to the original question.
>>>
>>>
>>One thing you can do is look at the airport diagram (available at
>>http://www.naco.faa.gov/index.asp?xml=naco/online/d_tpp)
>>
>>
>
>That's an excellent point. That reference is a reliable place to find the
>information originally asked for, and the airport diagrams are now available
>in the A/FD as well as in the FLIP charts where they always were.
>
>For that matter, the A/FD has the correct name to use printed in the
>"Communications" section. Now that you mention it, I'm a little puzzled as
>to why this thread exists at all. Obviously, I (along with apparently
>everyone else) have internalized the information in the A/FD so thoroughly
>that I (along with everyone else) forgot that they print the correct name to
>use in there?
>
>I mean, the original poster even seems to be referencing the A/FD
>specifically (though he wrote "AD", I agree with Jose that it's a good guess
>he really meant A/FD). How did this question even come up, when the correct
>information is right there?
>
>I think that collectively, the entire newsgroup needs to go sit in the
>corner with our dunce caps on. Thanks Bob.
>
>
>
>>In the case of Monroe County Airport, the airport diagram indicates
>>the tower name is Bloomington Tower.
>>
>>
>
>As does the A/FD entry.
>
>
>
>>Note that at least one tower I know will answer to different names
>>(KBED's diagram indicates Hanscom tower, but they answer to Bedford
>>tower as well).
>>
>>
>
>I imagine that pretty much any tower will answer to pretty much any radio
>call on their frequency, regardless of what you call them, as long as you're
>polite anyway. I'm sure that Paine Tower, for example, will respond to
>Everett Tower, Snohomish County Tower, and Snohomish Tower. They will
>probably tell you the correct designation (Paine) in their response, but no
>real harm will come from using the wrong name.
>
>Pete
>
>
>
>

[Bob Noel]

In article >, Pascal > wrote:

> There's a small airport in the vicinity that is not a towered airport,
> where I practice touch and goes sometimes. It is KBFR ( Befdord, IN ).
> There's an AWOS that states "Grissom Municipal airport".
> However most of the people when flying around call "Bedford traffic" and
> I do too since this is what I had been told by my CFI.
> If the AWOS doesn't work ( it has happened at that airport ), how would
> I figure out that I should call "Bedford traffic" instead of "Grissom
> traffic". There's usually noone at the Unicom on the ground to answer calls.

Look at the beginning of the AFD, specifically the Directory Legend.
You'll see:

CITY NAME
Airport Name (Alternate Name)

It would seem that using the Airport Name (or alternate) from the AFD
is a perfectly reasonable thing to do. No one could fault you for that.

--
Bob Noel
Looking for a sig the
lawyers will hate

[Peter Duniho]

"Pascal" > wrote in message
...
> I apologize, it was "A/FD" that I meant.
>
> The purpose of my question was actually more based on something that
> happened to me the other day.
> I should have given a better example

Boy, I'll say. :) Seems like we all pretty much figured you were asking
about towered airports.

> [...]
> If the AWOS doesn't work ( it has happened at that airport ), how would I
> figure out that I should call "Bedford traffic" instead of "Grissom
> traffic". There's usually noone at the Unicom on the ground to answer
> calls.

Especially for uncontrolled airports, there really is no good answer. At
least when there's a tower to address, you can ask them what they'd like to
be called. But there are no rules for non-towered airports. Furthermore,
just as with controlled airports, an uncontrolled airport may have more than
one name. For example, one uncontrolled airport I frequent around here goes
by "Pierce County Airport" as well as "Thun Field". Traffic is almost
always called out as "Pierce County" but one needs to be alert for either
that or "Thun" (but not, oddly enough :), "Puyallup"...the municipality that
the airport serves).

In the case of your Grissom airport, I think that for long-term operational
knowledge, you just listen to what's going on. But even though using
"Grissom" would turn out to be the wrong guess, it's not a bad guess and
people operating in the vicinity ought to know that "Grissom" is the same as
"Bedford".

> Of course, all of this is not a big deal and choosing one or the other
> from the airport directory shouldn't make much difference usually but I
> was just wondering how I could do the thing right at first.

Well, I think we've answered it for controlled airports. For uncontrolled,
I think that there just is not any one true answer. For any rule you might
think of, other than simply listening to hear what is the local standard,
there are going to be exceptions. I think it's best to start with the
information from the A/FD (airport name, specifically) and then modify as
needed once you hear what the other pilots in the area use. If you use the
airport name, they will still know what you're talking about.

> Based on the multiple posts on this thread there doesn't seem to really be
> a rule of thumb, so I guess and will try to choose the easier one to
> pronounce until I hear something different from somone else.

Heh...I guess that's one way to make the choice. :) Just as always using
the airport name, or always using the municipality, will not cause any
serious problems, I think you'll be just fine using the name that's easiest
to pronounce.

Pete

[Steven P. McNicoll[_1_]]

"Peter Duniho" > wrote in message
...
>
> Well, then you are incorrect. In the Puget Sound alone there are more
> airports NOT addressed by the municipality name than that are.
>

What airports are in the Puget Sound?


>
> Wrong. There is only one towered airport in Everett, WA, and yet the
> tower is not addressed as "Everett Tower". In Orlando, FL, where there
> are at three towered airports, one IS addressed as "Orlando". There are
> so many exceptions to your "rule" than the rule you're claiming is
> useless.
>

Huh? I said towers are usually addressed by the name of the primary
municipality served and cities having more than one towered airport are
probably the primary reason
it's "usually" and not "always". That doesn't mean that none of the towers
in those multi-tower cities will be addressed by the name of the primary
municipality served.


>
> Your assertions are based on your own lack of knowledge and wishful
> guesswork. They are hardly the product of actual information.
>

Actually, my assertions are based on fact, logic, and experience.


>
> No, it won't.
>

That's unfortunate. It certainly should.


>
> I have sufficient experience flying all over the US to know
> what "usually" is the case. And what IS usually the case is that towered
> airports are addressed by their NAME. The municipality is irrelevant,
> except inasmuch as it is often used as the NAME of the airport.
>

That's not the case. Towers are usually addressed by the name of the
primary municipality served.


>
> Telling someone to always use the municipality just because you believe
> towered airports are usually named based on the municipality is stupid.
>

I didn't say that. I said towers are usually addressed by the name of the
primary municipality served. They are, check for yourself if you don't
believe me. The query sounded to me like the OP was looking for a rule of
thumb, so I gave it to him. If he was searching for hard data I'd have told
him to check the A/FD or an approach plate.


>
> Of course you did. You certainly didn't state any sort of actual reliable
> method for determining an answer to the original question. You were
> either lying (which I don't believe is the case), or you were making a
> suggestion as to how the original question might be answered.
>

I stated a fact.


>
> I challenge you to demonstrate that in fact it is more reliable to use the
> municipality name than the airport name to address the tower. All you
> have to do is produce a list of every towered airport in the US, including
> their name, the municipality, and the name used to address the tower and
> calculate the percentage of that list in which the airport name matches
> the tower address, and in which the municipality name matches the tower
> address. If your rule is the correct one, then the percentage of matches
> for the municipality name will be greater than the percentage of matches
> for the airport name.
>
> I'm sure that you cannot provide this data.
>

Of course I can. Let's start, for no particular reason whatsoever, with the
great state of Washington:


Airport City
Tower


BLI Bellingham Intl Bellingham
Bellingham
PAE Snohomish County-Paine Field Everett
Paine
MWH Grant County Intl Moses Lake
Grant County
OLM Olympia Olympia
Olympia
PSC Tri-Cities Pasco
Tri-Cities
RNT Renton Municipal Renton
Renton
SEA Seattle-Tacoma Intl Seattle
Seattle
BFI King County Intl-Boeing Field Seattle
Boeing
GEG Spokane Intl Spokane
Spokane
SFF Felts Field Spokane
Felts
TIW Tacoma Narrows Tacoma
Tacoma
ALW Walla Walla Regional Walla Walla
Walla Walla
YKM Yakima Air Terminal-McAllister Field Yakima
Yakima

By my count there are 13 civil or joint-use towered fields in Washington, 8
of the towers are addressed by the name of the primary municipality served.
I think that's 62%. Does your experience include Washington? Let's move
out to the adjacent states:


Airport City
Tower

BOI Boise Air Terminal-Gowen Field Boise
Boise
SUN Friedman Memorial Hailey
Hailey
IDA Idaho Falls Regional Idaho Falls
Idaho Falls
LWS Lewiston-Nez Perce County Lewiston
Lewiston
PIH Pocatello Regional Pocatello
Pocatello
TWF JoslinField-Magic Valley Regional Twin Falls Twin
falls
EUG Mahlon Sweet Field Eugene
Eugene
LMT Klamath Falls Intl Klamath Falls
Kingsley
MFR Rogue Valley Intl Medford
Medford
PDT Eastern Oregon Regional Pendleton
Pendleton
PDX Portland Intl Portland
Portland
HIO Portland-Hillsboro Portland
Hillsboro
TTD Portland-Troutdale Portland
Troutdale
RDM Roberts Field Redmond
Redmond
SLE McNary Field Salem
Salem

I make that 15 towers in Idaho and Oregon, 12 of which are addressed by the
name of the primary municipality served. I think that's about 80%. Does
your experience include Idaho and Oregon? Let's look at the rest of the
region:


Airport City
Tower

ASE Aspen-Pitkin County-Sardy Field Aspen
Aspen
COS City of Colorado Springs Municipal Colorado Springs Springs
DEN Denver International Denver
Denver
BJC Jeffco Denver
Jeffco
APA Centennial Denver
Centennial
FTG Front Range Denver
Front Range
EGE Eagle County Regional Eagle
Eagle
GJT Walker Field Grand
Junction Grand Junction
PUB Pueblo Memorial Pueblo
Pueblo
BIL Billings Logan Intl Billings
Billings
BZN Gallatin Field Bozeman
Bozeman
GTF Great Falls Intl Great Falls
Great Falls
HLN Helena Regional Helena
Helena
MSO Missoula Intl Missoula
Missoula
OGD Ogden-Hinckley Ogden
Ogden
SLC Salt Lake City Intl Salt Lake City
Salt Lake City
CPR Natrona County Intl Casper
Casper
CYS Cheyenne Regional Cheyenne
Cheyenne
GCC Gillette-Campbell County Gillette
Gillette
JAC Jackson Hole Jackson
Jackson

I make that 20 towers in Colorado, Montana, Utah, and Wyoming, 16 of which
are addressed by the name of the primary municipality served. I think
that's about 80%. Does your experience include these states? Let's look at
the other state you mentioned, Florida:


Airport City
Tower

BOW Bartow Municipal Bartow
Bartow
BCT Boca Raton Boca Raton
Boca Raton
DAB Daytona Beach Intl Daytona Beach
Daytona
FXE Fort Lauderdale Executive Fort Lauderdale
Executive
FLL Fort Lauderdale-Hollywood Intl Fort Lauderdale
Fort Lauderdale
RSW Southwest Florida Intl Fort Myers
Fort Myers
FMY Page Field Fort Myers
Page
FPR St. Lucie County Intl Fort Pierce
Fort Pierce
GNV Gainesville Regional Gainesville
Gainesville
HWO North Perry Hollywood
North Perry
JAX Jacksonville Intl Jacksonville
Jacksonville
VQQ Cecil Field Jacksonville
Cecil
CRG Craig Municipal Jacksonville
Craig
06FA William P. Gwinn Jupiter
Gwinn
EYW Key West Intl Key West
Key West
LAL Lakeland Linder Regional Lakeland
Lakeland
MLB Melbourne Intl Melbourne
Melbourne
MIA Miami Intl Miami
Miami
OPF Opa Locka Miami
Opa Locka
TMB Kendall-Tamiami Executive Miami
Tamiami
APF Naples Municipal Naples
Naples
EVB New Smyrna Beach Municipal New Smyrna Beach New
Smyrna
MCO Orlando Intl Orlando
Orlando
ORL Orlando Executive Orlando
Executive
ISM Kissimmee Gateway Orlando
Kissimmee
SFB Orlando Sanford Intl Orlando
Sanford
OMN Ormond Beach Municipal Ormond Beach
Ormond Beach
PFN Panama City-Bay County Intl Panama City
Panama City
PNS Pensacola Regional Pensacola
Pensacola
PMP Pompano Beach Pompano Beach
Pompano Beach
SRQ Sarasota-Bradenton Intl Sarasota/Bradenton
Sarasota/Bradenton
SGJ St. Augustine St.
Augustine St. Augustine
PIE St. Petersburg-Clearwater Intl St. Petersburg
St. Petersburg
SPG Albert Whitted St.
Petersburg Albert Whitted
SUA Witham Field Stuart
Stuart
TLH Tallahasee Regional Tallahasee
Tallahasee
TPA Tampa Intl Tampa
Tampa
TIX Space Coast Regional Titusville
Executive
VRB Vero Beach Municipal Vero Beach
Vero Beach
PBI Palm Beach Intl West Palm
Beach Palm Beach

I make that 40 towers in Florida, 24 of which are addressed by the name of
the primary municipality served. I think that's about 60%. Does your
experience include Florida? So where have you flown that it is usually the
case that towered airports are addressed by the name of the airport and not
the name of the primary municipality? It clearly isn't any of the states
you already mentioned.

[Peter Duniho]

"Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>> I challenge you to demonstrate that in fact it is more reliable to use
>> the
>> municipality name than the airport name to address the tower. All you
>> have to do is produce a list of every towered airport in the US,
>> including
>> their name, the municipality, and the name used to address the tower and
>> calculate the percentage of that list in which the airport name matches
>> the tower address, and in which the municipality name matches the tower
>> address. If your rule is the correct one, then the percentage of matches
>> for the municipality name will be greater than the percentage of matches
>> for the airport name.
>>
>> I'm sure that you cannot provide this data.
>>
>
> Of course I can. Let's start, for no particular reason whatsoever, with
> the great state of Washington: [snipped]

Your analysis is flawed. You are answering the question you'd prefer to
answer, not the one that was put to you.

The point is not how often the tower is addressed using the name of the
municipality, but rather that figure compared to how often the tower is
addressed using the name of the airport itself. If you'd bothered to read
my post, you would have seen that was the point. I've quoted the relevant
text from my post, as quoted in YOUR post, so that you can more easily see
what you missed.

Further, you have at least one error in your list: Tacoma Narrows Airport is
addressed as "Tacoma Narrows Tower", not "Tacoma Tower" (and when the tower
closes, it's "Tacoma Narrows Traffic"...often it's shortened by pilots to
just "Narrows"). That puts the Washington State number at practically
50/50, hardly enough to justify "usually", even if that was the challenge
that I made to you. Which it was not.

There are probably other errors in your data as well, but I'm confident that
if you bother to go back and perform the analysis I actually challenged you
to perform, you'll find that using the airport name provides the right
answer more often than using the municipality name.

Pete

[Bob Gardner]

Considering that it is unlikely that there is a nearby tower assigned the
same frequency, anything you say on the Monroe County/Bloomington tower
frequency will be heard by the folks you want to contact. IOW, it's the
frequency that makes the difference, not the words.

Bob Gardner
SAY AGAIN, PLEASE

"Pascal" > wrote in message
...
> Hello,
>
> This might have been brought up in the newsgroup before but I couldn't
> find anything about it.
>
> When going to a new airport, the AD would have sometimes something like :
> Monroe County Airport, Bloomington, IN
>
> What call should I do ?
> Monroe County tower, Cessna XXXX ...
> or
> Bloomington tower, Cessna XXXX ...
>
> Usually if I listen to what's being said on the frequency before I talk I
> could figure it out, but sometimes some airports don't have that much
> traffic and it's a little harder to know what is the proper thing to say.
>
>
> Thanks

[Blanche Cohen]

I was up at Leadville (LXV) a couple week ago and kept hearing calls that
were somewhat unintelligible, but the FBO staff & I were convinced
they were calling Craig and not Leadville. And we kept hearing these
calls. Still convinced they were calling Craig. Both airports have the same
UNICOM frequency and but are about 100 nm apart. About 15 min. later
a twin lands. They were calling "Lake County Airport". Now, that's the
"official" name but I've never heard anyone use it and neither did
anyone at the FBO! It's always "Leadville".

You can spot a flatlander 10nm vis away, I guess.

[Blanche Cohen]

Bob Noel > wrote:
>
>Look at the beginning of the AFD, specifically the Directory Legend.
>You'll see:
>
>CITY NAME
> Airport Name (Alternate Name)
>
>It would seem that using the Airport Name (or alternate) from the AFD
>is a perfectly reasonable thing to do. No one could fault you for that.

I agree with Bob and a number of other posters that you should be
looking at the A/FD at flight planning time. You do flight plan, right?

Hm....let's see if "municipality name" v "airport name" works.

BJC. If you call "Boulder Tower" or "Broomfield Tower" you'll either
get ignored or laughed at. Boulder Airport doesn't have a tower, and
BJC is referred to as "Jeffco".

APA. The city of Centennial was just created a few years ago, but
prior to that, it was unincorporated county land, and the airport's been
there for ...um...30 years or so?

FTG. OK, call Denver Tower. You'll get laughed at. Denver Tower is
DIA (KDEN) 5 nm away. Or the closest town is Watkins. OK, fine, call
for Watkins Tower. No one will have the slightest idea what you're
talking about.

My favorite is GXY. Greely. Greel Weld. Weld County. You can hear
all three in the space of 60 seconds.

[John Gaquin]

"Blanche Cohen" > wrote in message news:eaimld$fin3

> APA. The city of Centennial was just created a few years ago, but
> prior to that, it was unincorporated county land, and the airport's been
> there for ...um...30 years or so?

Longer. The Arapahoe County Airport (as it was then known) was well
established and had been in operation for some time [afaik] when I learned
to fly at BKF some 35 years ago.

>
> FTG. OK, call Denver Tower. You'll get laughed at. Denver Tower is
> DIA (KDEN) 5 nm away. Or the closest town is Watkins. OK, fine, call
> for Watkins Tower. No one will have the slightest idea what you're
> talking about.

Blanche, let me ask you about Front Range, and the area there, if I may.
Before I started learning to fly at Buckley, I had my very first small
airplane ride at a little airport called Sky Ranch, which was right in the
Watkins area, a bit east of BKF and north of US-6, as I recall, but it may
have been north of I-70. Is that the same place that has become Front
Range, or is it entirely different? Also, I seem to recall that E 6th Ave
coming out of Lowry toward Buckley was US-6, and that it continued, arrow
straight, eastward past Buckley well out into the prairie near Strasbourg
where it merged and became colocated with I-70. Looking at Google just now
I see a road configuration far different than what I remember. I know there
has been massive eastward development, and both I-225 and CO-470 have been
built (I-225 was just starting in the mid 70s) Is it just me (Who IS that
old guy in the picture?!?!), or have the roads really been shifted around
that much? Thanks.

Jon Woellhof, jump in here if you can -- ....................

[Jon Woellhaf]

John Gaquin asked about Sky Ranch Airport near Denver, Colorado.

Hi, John.

According to the database at
http://www.airfieldsdatabase.com/CO%20R1%20A-H.htm
Sky Ranch apparently last appeared on a 1977 Denver Sectional and was at
39°45'30" by 104°44'45". That puts it right where the old hangar a half mile
NE of the Univair building now is. I think the hangar still has a sign on it
that says Sky Ranch. The hangar is 2.1 miles NW of the I-70 C-470
intersection and about 3.5 miles NNE of Buckley (KBKF). It's 7.7 miles WNW
of Watkins.

Front Range (KFTG) is about 3 miles NE of Watkins.

Things certainly have changed in this area. I used to watch jets take off
from Lowry. Now it's mostly a residential area. Our old training building is
a school. Buckley is now an Air Force Base. It was Navy then. What was it
when we were at Lowry? An Air Force Station, I think. And would you believe
that Longmont is no longer 2V2? It's now KAMR and has two 8000 foot runways.
Just kidding. Front Range has the two 8000 foor runways -- and a tower.

I don't recall US6 continuing straight east and intersecting I-70. You might
be thinking of Quincy. It passes south of Buckley and continues east mostly
straight until it runs into a county road about 7 miles south of Strasburg.

Come out and we'll visit all the old places. We can even ride our bikes up
Mount Evans, if you want!

Jan

[John Gaquin]

"Jon Woellhaf" > wrote in message news:mO6dnci-

> Sky Ranch apparently last appeared on a 1977 Denver Sectional and was at

Thanks for the info, Jon. So, Sky Ranch, too, has disappeared. The list of
things I remember that no longer exist is becoming long and distinguished.
:-) But I did note on Google Earth that the hangar we used to keep the Aero
Club planes in at Buckley appears to still be there -- hard to believe, as
it was quite old in 1971. Perhaps they've replaced it with one that looks
similar from above. That hangar was marvelous - old wood structure, walk in
and get overwhelmed with the aromas of old dust, oil, and solvent. Just
breathing the air could create aviators! I should think that today it would
probably be declared "hazardous" by some Federal acronym.


> Things certainly have changed in this area. I used to watch jets take off
> from Lowry. Now it's mostly a residential area. Our old training building
> is a school. Buckley is now an Air Force Base. It was Navy then. What was
> it when we were at Lowry? An Air Force Station, I think.

I knew that Lowry had closed. I guess that was some few years ago now.
During the time we were at Lowry and I was learning to fly, Buckley was an
ANG base. I remember that training flights from several military bases
would use BKF as an x-c destination, particularly on Fridays in winter.
Amazing how many of those aircraft developed mech write-ups on late Friday
afternoon in Denver. Equally amazing was the fact that so many of these
guys "just happened" to carry their skis along with them on x-c trips!
Hmmmmm.........

>
> I don't recall US6 continuing straight east and intersecting I-70.

I'm sure you're right. When I was going to Buckley, as you left Lowry on 6th
Ave, once you got past -- what? Peoria maybe? -- it was all prairie, except
for where they were just starting the I225 construction.

[Jose[_1_]]

> But I did note on Google Earth that the hangar we used to keep the Aero
> Club planes in at Buckley appears to still be there

Remember, Google Earth is not real time. They could be old pictures.

Jose
--
The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the music.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[John Gaquin]

"Jose" > wrote in message news:1Mqzg.74708
>
> Remember, Google Earth is not real time. They could be old pictures.

Thanks, Jose, you're right. I always figure the Google sat photos to be at
least 5 years old, maybe more. But we were comparing back to early 70s.

[Roger[_4_]]

On 30 Jul 2006 16:07:51 GMT, (Blanche Cohen)
wrote:

>I was up at Leadville (LXV) a couple week ago and kept hearing calls that
>were somewhat unintelligible, but the FBO staff & I were convinced
>they were calling Craig and not Leadville. And we kept hearing these
>calls. Still convinced they were calling Craig. Both airports have the same
>UNICOM frequency and but are about 100 nm apart. About 15 min. later
>a twin lands. They were calling "Lake County Airport". Now, that's the
>"official" name but I've never heard anyone use it and neither did
>anyone at the FBO! It's always "Leadville".
>
>You can spot a flatlander 10nm vis away, I guess.

What has that to do with it? We have people do the same out here.
We had one guy ask over the air about gas availability at Gladwin one
evening. They were already closed. He was told Bay City, Saginaw, and
Clare (Clare Municipal) all had gas with Clare having self serve so
even if no one was there he could get gas. It was pointed out that
the airport at Harrison (clare County-there is only one airport at
Harrison) did not have gas of any kind day or night.

Where did he go? Yup. Clare county at Harrison. Couldn't find gas so
took off, engine quite just off the end of the runway. It was a fatal.
OTOH he'd let the gas get so low it's doubtful he'd have made Clare
Municipal any way. On top of that he was only about 40 miles from
home so why was he flying with so little gas?

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com