Passport or no?

[Robert M. Gary]

I thought I was going to have to spent $300 to get passports for my
wife and kids when coming back from Mexico next year but now I'm not
sure. Reading AOPA's site
http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/newsitems/2005/050412passport_info.html
They claim that after Dec 31st "will be required to have a passport or
other acceptable document". However, at the top they say "submit a
passport or other acceptable documentation as proof of citizenship".
So, this makes it sound as if kids can continue to travel with just a
birth certificate. Am I missing something? I certainly don't want to
pay $300 for no reason. I'm also pretty sure that customs will never
actually ask for it since they've never asked any of us for citizen
information in all the years we've been traveling to/from Mexico and
Canada. The worst I've ever been asked for was my driver's license and
pilots certificate. My wife was asked for her driver's license once
(and illegals can even get those!).
The actual rules and what the individual custom's person do are usually
different.

-Robrt

[Emily[_1_]]

Robert M. Gary wrote:
> I thought I was going to have to spent $300 to get passports for my
> wife and kids when coming back from Mexico next year but now I'm not
> sure. Reading AOPA's site
> http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/newsitems/2005/050412passport_info.html
> They claim that after Dec 31st "will be required to have a passport or
> other acceptable document". However, at the top they say "submit a
> passport or other acceptable documentation as proof of citizenship".
> So, this makes it sound as if kids can continue to travel with just a
> birth certificate. Am I missing something? I certainly don't want to
> pay $300 for no reason. I'm also pretty sure that customs will never
> actually ask for it since they've never asked any of us for citizen
> information in all the years we've been traveling to/from Mexico and
> Canada. The worst I've ever been asked for was my driver's license and
> pilots certificate. My wife was asked for her driver's license once
> (and illegals can even get those!).
> The actual rules and what the individual custom's person do are usually
> different.
>
> -Robrt
>
Personally, I always carry on, even to Mexico.

[John Gaquin]

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message

>I thought I was going to have to spent $300 to get passports for my
> wife and kids when coming back from Mexico next year but now I'm not
> sure. Reading AOPA's site

Personally, I would never, as in *never*, leave the US of A without a
passport. ymmv

[john smith]

In article >,
Emily > wrote:

> Robert M. Gary wrote:
> > I thought I was going to have to spent $300 to get passports for my
> > wife and kids when coming back from Mexico next year but now I'm not
> > sure. Reading AOPA's site
> > http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/newsitems/2005/050412passport_info.html
> > They claim that after Dec 31st "will be required to have a passport or
> > other acceptable document". However, at the top they say "submit a
> > passport or other acceptable documentation as proof of citizenship".
> > So, this makes it sound as if kids can continue to travel with just a
> > birth certificate. Am I missing something? I certainly don't want to
> > pay $300 for no reason. I'm also pretty sure that customs will never
> > actually ask for it since they've never asked any of us for citizen
> > information in all the years we've been traveling to/from Mexico and
> > Canada. The worst I've ever been asked for was my driver's license and
> > pilots certificate. My wife was asked for her driver's license once
> > (and illegals can even get those!).
> > The actual rules and what the individual custom's person do are usually
> > different.

> Personally, I always carry on, even to Mexico.

I recommend getting now, before the last minute rush by the masses backs
the wait up to six-months or more.

[Robert M. Gary]

Emily wrote:
> Personally, I always carry on, even to Mexico.

Unless its required, can't see why you would want to. You might lose
it. I always leave mine at home.

-robert

[Emily[_1_]]

Robert M. Gary wrote:
> Emily wrote:
>> Personally, I always carry on, even to Mexico.
>
> Unless its required, can't see why you would want to. You might lose
> it. I always leave mine at home.
>
> -robert
>
Two years ago, a friend and I took a quick trip to TJ. INS or whoever
they're called now, would not let my friend back into the USA with just
his driver's license. I had to call his parents from this side to drive
his passport down from San Diego. I was NOT happy about hanging around
the San Ysidro crossing by myself, believe me.

[Robert M. Gary]

Emily wrote:
> Robert M. Gary wrote:

> Two years ago, a friend and I took a quick trip to TJ. INS or whoever
> they're called now, would not let my friend back into the USA with just
> his driver's license. I had to call his parents from this side to drive
> his passport down from San Diego. I was NOT happy about hanging around
> the San Ysidro crossing by myself, believe me.

No passport is required. Perhaps he was a minor.

-Robert

[Emily[_1_]]

Robert M. Gary wrote:
> Emily wrote:
>> Robert M. Gary wrote:
>
>> Two years ago, a friend and I took a quick trip to TJ. INS or whoever
>> they're called now, would not let my friend back into the USA with just
>> his driver's license. I had to call his parents from this side to drive
>> his passport down from San Diego. I was NOT happy about hanging around
>> the San Ysidro crossing by myself, believe me.
>
> No passport is required. Perhaps he was a minor.
>
> -Robert

Don't condescend.

The fact is, INS doesn't always do what's "required". Are you going to
argue that they should let you in? Sorry, I can tell you who'd win that
one. It's a better idea to carry your passport and not get hassled.

Besides, a passport is much easier to replace than a driver's license.

[Vaughn Simon]

"John Gaquin" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Personally, I would never, as in *never*, leave the US of A without a
> passport. ymmv

I agree. Shortly after 911, the wife and I saw the handwriting on the wall
and applied for our passports. Assuming that you apply "pre need" so there is
no rush, it is just not a big deal.

Vaughn

[tony roberts[_1_]]

I can't imagine not owning one.
Even as a teen ( a loonng time ago) I had my own passport and I have
held a current passport ever since then.

Now all I gotta do is take the time to apply for my Canadian one - I'm
still travelling on my Brit one.

Tony
--

Tony Roberts
PP-ASEL
VFR OTT
Night
Cessna 172H C-GICE

In article . com>,
"Robert M. Gary" > wrote:

> I thought I was going to have to spent $300 to get passports for my
> wife and kids when coming back from Mexico next year but now I'm not
> sure. Reading AOPA's site
> http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/newsitems/2005/050412passport_info.html
> They claim that after Dec 31st "will be required to have a passport or
> other acceptable document". However, at the top they say "submit a
> passport or other acceptable documentation as proof of citizenship".
> So, this makes it sound as if kids can continue to travel with just a
> birth certificate. Am I missing something? I certainly don't want to
> pay $300 for no reason. I'm also pretty sure that customs will never
> actually ask for it since they've never asked any of us for citizen
> information in all the years we've been traveling to/from Mexico and
> Canada. The worst I've ever been asked for was my driver's license and
> pilots certificate. My wife was asked for her driver's license once
> (and illegals can even get those!).
> The actual rules and what the individual custom's person do are usually
> different.
>
> -Robrt

[Robert M. Gary]

Emily wrote:
> Don't condescend.

I'm not following. How was I condescending? You didn't post your age so
I wouldn't know how old you are. As a California native I know that
high school kids often sneak down to Mexico to buy beer. Nothing in
your post indicated that that wasn't possible.

> The fact is, INS doesn't always do what's "required". Are you going to
> argue that they should let you in? Sorry, I can tell you who'd win that
> one. It's a better idea to carry your passport and not get hassled.

A birth certificate should have worked as well. The INS doesn't really
have a lot of choice. They can't deny an American entry back into the
country, they can only delay or arrest you. But to arrest you they
would have to tell you what crime you commited. Not having a passport
is not only not a crime, but by far the norm for those of us in
California who frequent Mexico.

-Robert

[Emily[_1_]]

Robert M. Gary wrote:
> Emily wrote:
>> Don't condescend.
>
> I'm not following. How was I condescending? You didn't post your age so
> I wouldn't know how old you are.

I'm posting in a pilot newsgroup. I thought that made it obvious that I
was at least 17.

<snip>
>
> A birth certificate should have worked as well. The INS doesn't really
> have a lot of choice. They can't deny an American entry back into the
> country, they can only delay or arrest you.

Delay being the key word. I don't want to be delayed.

[Robert M. Gary]

Emily wrote:
> Robert M. Gary wrote:
> > Emily wrote:
> >> Don't condescend.
> >
> > I'm not following. How was I condescending? You didn't post your age so
> > I wouldn't know how old you are.
>
> I'm posting in a pilot newsgroup. I thought that made it obvious that I
> was at least 17.

In your post you said "Two years ago, a friend and I took a quick trip
to TJ". If you were 17 today (still below the legal US drinking age and
above the age to "find" alcohol in Mexico) that would have made you 15.
So I would say it reasonable that parents be called when a 15 year old
attempts to return from Mexico without documentation.

-Robert

[Emily[_1_]]

Robert M. Gary wrote:
> Emily wrote:
>> Robert M. Gary wrote:
>>> Emily wrote:
>>>> Don't condescend.
>>> I'm not following. How was I condescending? You didn't post your age so
>>> I wouldn't know how old you are.
>> I'm posting in a pilot newsgroup. I thought that made it obvious that I
>> was at least 17.
>
> In your post you said "Two years ago, a friend and I took a quick trip
> to TJ". If you were 17 today (still below the legal US drinking age and
> above the age to "find" alcohol in Mexico) that would have made you 15.
> So I would say it reasonable that parents be called when a 15 year old
> attempts to return from Mexico without documentation.

Oh, fine. I suppose you had no way of knowing that I never had a sip of
alcohol before turning 21.

*I*, not immigration, had to call his parents because we were staying at
his parents house that weekend. Neither of us lived in San Diego at the
time. Since we'd stopped by from out of the country, his passport was
at his parents house in his luggage, so his dad drove it down for for me
to walk it back across the border for him.

[Joe Feise]

Robert M. Gary wrote on 07/10/06 20:36:

> Emily wrote:
>> Don't condescend.
>
> I'm not following. How was I condescending? You didn't post your age so
> I wouldn't know how old you are. As a California native I know that
> high school kids often sneak down to Mexico to buy beer. Nothing in
> your post indicated that that wasn't possible.
>
>> The fact is, INS doesn't always do what's "required". Are you going to
>> argue that they should let you in? Sorry, I can tell you who'd win that
>> one. It's a better idea to carry your passport and not get hassled.
>
> A birth certificate should have worked as well. The INS doesn't really
> have a lot of choice. They can't deny an American entry back into the
> country, they can only delay or arrest you. But to arrest you they
> would have to tell you what crime you commited. Not having a passport
> is not only not a crime, but by far the norm for those of us in
> California who frequent Mexico.


No, but as US citizen, trying to enter the US without a US passport is. Entry
from Canada and Mexico just was an exception that is closed come Jan. 1.

-Joe


>
> -Robert
>

[Morgans[_3_]]

"> > Personally, I would never, as in *never*, leave the US of A without a
> > passport. ymmv
>
> I agree. Shortly after 911, the wife and I saw the handwriting on
the wall
> and applied for our passports. Assuming that you apply "pre need" so
there is
> no rush, it is just not a big deal.

I have kept my passport current for the last 20 years, or so. You never
know when or where you might want to go somewhere, that not having a
passport would be a show stopper. Not only that, a passport is another form
of ID, for things you need to show 3 ID's for.

Get the Kid's passports. How many kids can brag that they have one! <g>
--
Jim in NC

[Andrew Sarangan[_1_]]

Robert M. Gary wrote:
> I thought I was going to have to spent $300 to get passports for my
> wife and kids when coming back from Mexico next year but now I'm not
> sure. Reading AOPA's site
> http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/newsitems/2005/050412passport_info.html
> They claim that after Dec 31st "will be required to have a passport or
> other acceptable document". However, at the top they say "submit a
> passport or other acceptable documentation as proof of citizenship".
> So, this makes it sound as if kids can continue to travel with just a
> birth certificate. Am I missing something? I certainly don't want to
> pay $300 for no reason. I'm also pretty sure that customs will never
> actually ask for it since they've never asked any of us for citizen
> information in all the years we've been traveling to/from Mexico and
> Canada. The worst I've ever been asked for was my driver's license and
> pilots certificate. My wife was asked for her driver's license once
> (and illegals can even get those!).
> The actual rules and what the individual custom's person do are usually
> different.
>
> -Robrt

Read this:
http://travel.state.gov/travel/cbpmc/cbpmc_2223.html

In the past inspectors were allowed to accept any document and use some
judgement to determine whether you are a U.S. citizen. But starting
2007, they won't have that option. Save the trouble and get the
passports. If you are denied entry, it may cost you a lot more than
$300.

[Peter Duniho]

"Joe Feise" > wrote in message
...
> No, but as US citizen, trying to enter the US without a US passport is.
> Entry
> from Canada and Mexico just was an exception that is closed come Jan. 1.

Maybe. Here in the Pacific Northwest, they are already talking about
delaying the passport requirement from Canada. There's a lot of resistance
to having the requirement at all, and it may just keep getting pushed back
indefinitely.

[Bob Gardner]

Rather than rely on AOPA, I would query the government agencies you will
have to deal with. We always carry our passports when visiting Canada and
have never had a problem. Passports are good for ten years...amortize the
cost over that period and it's not too bad.

Bob Gardner

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>I thought I was going to have to spent $300 to get passports for my
> wife and kids when coming back from Mexico next year but now I'm not
> sure. Reading AOPA's site
> http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/newsitems/2005/050412passport_info.html
> They claim that after Dec 31st "will be required to have a passport or
> other acceptable document". However, at the top they say "submit a
> passport or other acceptable documentation as proof of citizenship".
> So, this makes it sound as if kids can continue to travel with just a
> birth certificate. Am I missing something? I certainly don't want to
> pay $300 for no reason. I'm also pretty sure that customs will never
> actually ask for it since they've never asked any of us for citizen
> information in all the years we've been traveling to/from Mexico and
> Canada. The worst I've ever been asked for was my driver's license and
> pilots certificate. My wife was asked for her driver's license once
> (and illegals can even get those!).
> The actual rules and what the individual custom's person do are usually
> different.
>
> -Robrt
>

[Ross Richardson[_1_]]

BTW, for your photographs...

If you are good with digital photography and have the equipment
(printer, etc) you can do them your self. Just be sure they are the
correct size. Go Google PASSPORT and find the government page that has
the download applications. I went to renew mine and went to the local
post office that was going to charge me. When she pulled out her camera
and I asked what she was going to print them on (an hp printer) I said
never mind, I can do all of that. I think it has to be 2"x2" and against
a white background.

I got my renewed using my own photography.

Robert M. Gary wrote:

> I thought I was going to have to spent $300 to get passports for my
> wife and kids when coming back from Mexico next year but now I'm not
> sure. Reading AOPA's site
> http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/newsitems/2005/050412passport_info.html
> They claim that after Dec 31st "will be required to have a passport or
> other acceptable document". However, at the top they say "submit a
> passport or other acceptable documentation as proof of citizenship".
> So, this makes it sound as if kids can continue to travel with just a
> birth certificate. Am I missing something? I certainly don't want to
> pay $300 for no reason. I'm also pretty sure that customs will never
> actually ask for it since they've never asked any of us for citizen
> information in all the years we've been traveling to/from Mexico and
> Canada. The worst I've ever been asked for was my driver's license and
> pilots certificate. My wife was asked for her driver's license once
> (and illegals can even get those!).
> The actual rules and what the individual custom's person do are usually
> different.
>
> -Robrt
>

[Jessica Rhodes[_1_]]

Emily wrote:

> Robert M. Gary wrote:
> > Emily wrote:
> >> Don't condescend.
> >
> > I'm not following. How was I condescending? You didn't post your age so
> > I wouldn't know how old you are.
>
> I'm posting in a pilot newsgroup. I thought that made it obvious that I
> was at least 17.

That's the first I have heard that assertion. Why would you need to be age 17
to post in this or any other newsgroup?


> <snip>
> >
> > A birth certificate should have worked as well. The INS doesn't really
> > have a lot of choice. They can't deny an American entry back into the
> > country, they can only delay or arrest you.
>
> Delay being the key word. I don't want to be delayed.

Which is not relevant to needing a passport. A birth certificate is also
sufficient for many places, including Canada, Mexico, Bermuda, much of the
Caribbean, and some other countries including Panama. This apparently will
change in the future.

[Emily[_1_]]

Jessica Rhodes wrote:
>
<snip>
>
> That's the first I have heard that assertion. Why would you need to be age 17
> to post in this or any other newsgroup?

Since I've made postings alluding to my ratings, it's obvious to anyone
with any sort of knowledge of the FARs that I am at the very least 18.

<snip>
>
> Which is not relevant to needing a passport. A birth certificate is also
> sufficient for many places, including Canada, Mexico, Bermuda, much of the
> Caribbean, and some other countries including Panama. This apparently will
> change in the future.

How is it NOT relevant? As people have already said, individual
inspectors sometimes make up their own rules. Why get bogged down in
immigration when you don't need to? Personally, I think it's a bad idea
to leave the country without a passport, and there appear to be several
others who agree with me.

>
>

[Jessica Rhodes[_1_]]

Peter Duniho wrote:

> "Joe Feise" > wrote in message
> ...
> > No, but as US citizen, trying to enter the US without a US passport is.
> > Entry
> > from Canada and Mexico just was an exception that is closed come Jan. 1.
>
> Maybe. Here in the Pacific Northwest, they are already talking about
> delaying the passport requirement from Canada. There's a lot of resistance
> to having the requirement at all, and it may just keep getting pushed back
> indefinitely.

The passport requirement for land entry does not begin until Dec 31, 2007.
(may not be set in stone yet).

[Robert M. Gary]

In fact I traved (via Mooney) with my son to Canada and back once
without any proof of his citizenship (I left his b-certificate at home
by accident). I didn't get any grief from either side. Perhaps it will
be more difficult now. I'm just a bit irritated that I've got to fork
over $300 now.
Also, since my passport is almost getting ready to expire, it will
actually cost me $400. It looks like I'd be better off just getting a
new one rather than renew. It looks like the difference is $20 and I'd
pay the $20 just to be able to keep my old stamps.

-robert


Andrew Sarangan wrote:
> Robert M. Gary wrote:
> In the past inspectors were allowed to accept any document and use some
> judgement to determine whether you are a U.S. citizen. But starting
> 2007, they won't have that option. Save the trouble and get the
> passports. If you are denied entry, it may cost you a lot more than
> $300.

[Jessica Rhodes[_1_]]

Emily wrote:

> Jessica Rhodes wrote:
> >
> <snip>
> >
> > That's the first I have heard that assertion. Why would you need to be age 17
> > to post in this or any other newsgroup?
>
> Since I've made postings alluding to my ratings, it's obvious to anyone
> with any sort of knowledge of the FARs that I am at the very least 18.

And are those ratings cited in this thread? Do you expect others to investigate
every post you ever made so that they can insinuate how old you might be?

You also said, "I'm posting in a pilot newsgroup. I thought that made it obvious
that I was at least 17." Again, how does posting in a newsgroup make any
poster's age "obvious???" You didn't say anything about posting ratings at that
time either. Please explain your 'logic.'

>
>
> <snip>
> >
> > Which is not relevant to needing a passport. A birth certificate is also
> > sufficient for many places, including Canada, Mexico, Bermuda, much of the
> > Caribbean, and some other countries including Panama. This apparently will
> > change in the future.
>
> How is it NOT relevant?

Because attempting to cross the border with a driver's license only and being
rejected only does not indicate that a passport is required. Simple logic.

> As people have already said, individual
> inspectors sometimes make up their own rules. Why get bogged down in
> immigration when you don't need to? Personally, I think it's a bad idea
> to leave the country without a passport, and there appear to be several
> others who agree with me.

What rule was made up? Did the person in question present a birth certificate and
the valid birth certificate was rejected???

[Jessica Rhodes[_1_]]

"Robert M. Gary" wrote:

> In fact I traved (via Mooney) with my son to Canada and back once
> without any proof of his citizenship (I left his b-certificate at home
> by accident). I didn't get any grief from either side. Perhaps it will
> be more difficult now. I'm just a bit irritated that I've got to fork
> over $300 now.
> Also, since my passport is almost getting ready to expire, it will
> actually cost me $400. It looks like I'd be better off just getting a
> new one rather than renew. It looks like the difference is $20 and I'd
> pay the $20 just to be able to keep my old stamps.
>
> -robert

At any rate, if a child is traveling with only one parent to Canada, the
Canadian officials may take a dim view to this due to problems with child
trafficking across borders. It is always a good idea to have a signed letter
from the other parent or legal guardian if not present.

Re: your old stamps. You will receive your old passport back. It will just
have the corners cut. If you do not return it, you may have to claim it is
lost or stolen when you apply for a new one.

[john smith]

In article om>,
"Robert M. Gary" > wrote:

> It looks like the difference is $20 and I'd
> pay the $20 just to be able to keep my old stamps.

They send you your old one back with the new one.

[john smith]

In article >,
Ross Richardson > wrote:

> I went to renew mine and went to the local
> post office that was going to charge me. When she pulled out her camera
> and I asked what she was going to print them on (an hp printer) I said
> never mind, I can do all of that.

Interesting, my local postoffice takes polaroid photos.

[john smith]

In article >,
Emily > wrote:

> Since I've made postings alluding to my ratings, it's obvious to anyone
> with any sort of knowledge of the FARs that I am at the very least 18.

Emily, not everyone has posted to this group before and knows the
individual histories of posters of this group.

[Emily[_1_]]

Jessica Rhodes wrote:

>
> What rule was made up? Did the person in question present a birth certificate and
> the valid birth certificate was rejected???

You really are an idiot. Do you expect me to actually answer your
questions? I've never seen you post before, and that's either because
you're a troll or I kill-filed you years ago.

[[email protected]]

On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 18:00:50 -0500, Emily >
wrote:

>Jessica Rhodes wrote:
>
>>
>> What rule was made up? Did the person in question present a birth certificate and
>> the valid birth certificate was rejected???
>
>You really are an idiot. Do you expect me to actually answer your
>questions? I've never seen you post before, and that's either because
>you're a troll or I kill-filed you years ago.

This is use net. Any one of us can be any one or anything. Without a
bit of research or having been on the group long enough to become
recognized and have developed a reputation, there is nothing that can
really be assumed except the person you are talking to may not be what
they claim.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Roger

[Emily[_1_]]

wrote:
> On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 18:00:50 -0500, Emily >
> wrote:
>
>> Jessica Rhodes wrote:
>>
>>> What rule was made up? Did the person in question present a birth certificate and
>>> the valid birth certificate was rejected???
>> You really are an idiot. Do you expect me to actually answer your
>> questions? I've never seen you post before, and that's either because
>> you're a troll or I kill-filed you years ago.
>
> This is use net. Any one of us can be any one or anything. Without a
> bit of research or having been on the group long enough to become
> recognized and have developed a reputation, there is nothing that can
> really be assumed except the person you are talking to may not be what
> they claim.

That's why I'm not answering her. *I've* never seen her post here.
But, like I said, it's very possible she's been plonked for years.

[[email protected]]

On 11 Jul 2006 12:11:53 -0700, "Robert M. Gary" >
wrote:

>
>john smith wrote:
>> In article om>,
>> "Robert M. Gary" > wrote:
>>
>> > It looks like the difference is $20 and I'd
>> > pay the $20 just to be able to keep my old stamps.
>>
>> They send you your old one back with the new one.
>
>That's good to know. Nowadays its not a good idea for a pilot to be
>without his passport. Everytime I go down to the FSDO they expect to

I've never had a pass port.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

>see my passport now. Just to renew a CFI now they are asking for it. I
>know several FBOs that will no longer accept new students (US citizens)
>that do not have passports because they've had trouble with
>B-certificates.
>
>-Robert
Roger

[Emily[_1_]]

Morgans wrote:
> "Emily" > wrote
>> That's why I'm not answering her. *I've* never seen her post here.
>> But, like I said, it's very possible she's been plonked for years.
>
> I can't recall seeing you here, at least not very much, if at all. Are you
> posting under a new name, or just posting a lot more than you have in the
> past?

Combination of both. I posted in college, four or five years ago, but
don't know under what name (it wasn't this one). I posted late last
year/early this year, too, until I got fed up with the pettiness.

Regardless, I wasn't including anyone else in the above statement. I've
lurked for years, and never saw her name.

[Morgans[_3_]]

> wrote

> This is use net. Any one of us can be any one or anything. Without a
> bit of research or having been on the group long enough to become
> recognized and have developed a reputation, there is nothing that can
> really be assumed except the person you are talking to may not be what
> they claim.

You know, there is a real quiet kind of wisdom, in that paragraph.

Reputation is everything. You never know for sure what or where someone is,
or where they are coming from.

If a person has honor, they post what they are, and what they believe in,
without dodging around with new identities. Even if others do not agree
with them, that is OK. Some of the crackpots have used too many identities
to keep track of.

I've never posted under an assumed name. I'll bet that you haven't either,
and many others have not. I'm the kind of person that will tell a cashier
that they have given me too much change back. I don't take or keep stuff
that doesn't belong to me. If I tear up somebody's stuff, I'll make it
right with them.

The world needs more honest people.
--
Jim in NC

[Morgans[_3_]]

"Emily" > wrote
>
> That's why I'm not answering her. *I've* never seen her post here.
> But, like I said, it's very possible she's been plonked for years.

I can't recall seeing you here, at least not very much, if at all. Are you
posting under a new name, or just posting a lot more than you have in the
past?
--
Jim in NC

[Morgans[_3_]]

"Emily" > wrote
>
> Combination of both. I posted in college, four or five years ago, but
> don't know under what name (it wasn't this one). I posted late last
> year/early this year, too, until I got fed up with the pettiness.
>
> Regardless, I wasn't including anyone else in the above statement. I've
> lurked for years, and never saw her name.

There are a lot of people that come in though here, post a couple five
times, then leave, never to be seen again. Most that do that aren't really
missed. <g>

I have a feeling that a lot start in the group through a cross post.

I'm pretty guilty of not checking all of the groups that are linked to a
post when I reply to it. :-(
--
Jim in NC

[Jessica Rhodes]

Emily wrote:

> Jessica Rhodes wrote:
>
> >
> > What rule was made up? Did the person in question present a birth certificate and
> > the valid birth certificate was rejected???
>
> You really are an idiot

Yes, I'm an 'idiot' because I know that a passport is not required for US Citizens
returning home from Mexico, and an immigration officer not accepting a DRIVER's license
does not change that fact. .

> Do you expect me to actually answer your
> questions?

You mean the question about how everyone is automatically supposed to know your age and
why you think that because you are "posting in a pilot newsgroup....makes it obvious
that you are at least 17..." Or why you think that a passport is required to return to
the USA from Mexico, merely because your 'friend' had trouble with only a driver's
license. Hint: A birth certificate would have worked nicely.


> I've never seen you post before, and that's either because
> you're a troll or I kill-filed you years ago.

Well, you are right about one thing. You do sound about 17. .

[Morgans[_3_]]

"John" > wrote

> Why do you say that? I can replace my driver's license at my DMV's
website in
> a few minutes or less. It's only about ten bucks, payable with a credit
card.
> They can mail it to me, since they already have the photos stored, and in
the
> meantime the printout is sufficient to prove that I am licensed while I
wait
> for the license card.
>
Wow, I had to show up in person, three forms of ID, and give them 86 bucks
for a new driver's license.
--
Jim in NC.

[Jen S]

Morgans wrote:

> "John" > wrote
>
> > Why do you say that? I can replace my driver's license at my DMV's
> website in
> > a few minutes or less. It's only about ten bucks, payable with a credit
> card.
> > They can mail it to me, since they already have the photos stored, and in
> the
> > meantime the printout is sufficient to prove that I am licensed while I
> wait
> > for the license card.
> >
> Wow, I had to show up in person, three forms of ID, and give them 86 bucks
> for a new driver's license.

In Massachusetts, just go to the registry home page, click replace license,
fill out the form and you're done. The site takes 3 credit card types and the
replacement fee is $15 or $20.

[Ross Richardson[_1_]]

I have been on the use net for sometime though I don't post as much as I
used to. And I always use my name, but do change the e-mail for spam
reasons.

Some observations

* Good questions are asked only to be rudely answered.

* Responder to above is mostly anonymous, but not always.

* Some posters do not stay civil, use crude language rather than
explaining their position.

* For the trolls and other antagonistic posters - just do not respond
to them. Let it die. But the thread going keeps going.

* Threads part from the original post in about 6 to 8 replies. No back
up data on my part, can't prove it, just an observation.

* I learn over time who are knowledgeable and I can trust their answer
and learn something. Others I ignore. Some are knowledgeable but
obnoxious in their reply and I tolerate that.

Let the flames begin....

Ross
KSWI



wrote:

> On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 18:00:50 -0500, Emily >
> wrote:
>
>
>>Jessica Rhodes wrote:
>>
>>
>>>What rule was made up? Did the person in question present a birth certificate and
>>>the valid birth certificate was rejected???
>>
>>You really are an idiot. Do you expect me to actually answer your
>>questions? I've never seen you post before, and that's either because
>>you're a troll or I kill-filed you years ago.
>
>
> This is use net. Any one of us can be any one or anything. Without a
> bit of research or having been on the group long enough to become
> recognized and have developed a reputation, there is nothing that can
> really be assumed except the person you are talking to may not be what
> they claim.
>
> Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
> (N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
> www.rogerhalstead.com
>
> Roger

[Morgans[_3_]]

"Ross Richardson" > wrote

> Some observations

> * Good questions are asked only to be rudely answered.

Sometimes, you big jerk! <g>

> * Responder to above is mostly anonymous, but not always.

Given, in many cases. In a lot of cases, the responder is rude to most
people. People like that quickly find their way into my kill file, not
quite as quick if they are really smart! <g>

I'll add my own observation. Kill files can make the difference between
usenet with enjoyment, or usenet with stress.

> * Some posters do not stay civil, use crude language rather than
> explaining their position.

They resort to crude language because their position is weak. The weaker
position, the more crude the answer.

Part of life is knowing when and where it is time to be crude. I'm a
construction worker at heart, and can cuss with the best of them. Here is
not the place or time.

> * For the trolls and other antagonistic posters - just do not respond
> to them. Let it die. But the thread going keeps going.

Oh, how I wish that would happen. Skylune would have been gone a long time
ago.

> * Threads part from the original post in about 6 to 8 replies. No back
> up data on my part, can't prove it, just an observation.

On target for many posts, I'll bet. My observation is that posts with a
wide interest have a better chance of making it longer. Any possible human
connection, where somone can be blamed, will quickly be taken down a
political path. Political discussions make me more angry than any other
thing in here.

> * I learn over time who are knowledgeable and I can trust their answer
> and learn something. Others I ignore. Some are knowledgeable but
> obnoxious in their reply and I tolerate that.

I'm close to agreeing on this one. There are times when even the smart
people get it wrong, and the dumb people get it rignt. It takes some
discriminating sorting to figure out what is what. I do agree that some
people are far more likely to have the right answer, and need to be read
carefully.
>
> Let the flames begin....

Pretty good observations. Hey, you must be a pretty fart smeller! OOps...
I meant a pretty smart feller! <g>
--
Jim in NC