Testing MoGas

[Jay Honeck]

For those of us who use car gas, the advent of ethanol has been a real
pain. Although we don't test every tank full, we have used the
"water/gas/shake" test to verify that there is no ethanol present. I
find this method to be rather imprecise and quite a pain, since you
have to have water around to perform the test. (Not easy, in an
unheated hangar, in winter.)

As ethanol spreads like a cancer, we're becoming more certain that we
SHOULD be testing at each fill, now, even though the pumps here in Iowa
are clearly labeled. Well, a guy on a Cherokee 235 mail group has come
up with the following method to test for water AND alcohol at the same
time -- tell me what you think of this:

1. Put fuel in cup.
2. Add 1/4 of an alka-seltzer to fuel
3. If no fizz, no water OR alcohol is present.

I really like this method, as it's portable and doesn't require the use
of water. I plan on testing it on our next tank-full of car gas.

I'm no chemist, so I've got to ask: Does this method pass muster,
scientifically?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Tri-Pacer[_1_]]

.. Well, a guy on a Cherokee 235 mail group has come
> up with the following method to test for water AND alcohol at the same
> time -- tell me what you think of this:
>
> 1. Put fuel in cup.
> 2. Add 1/4 of an alka-seltzer to fuel
> 3. If no fizz, no water OR alcohol is present.
>
Sportys sold a kit which consisted of a chemical that when added to the fuel
turned color if alcohol was present. I bought a number of kits some time
back and test each and every load. Very easy to do. I tested some gas while
in California that I knew had alcohol. Sure enough the fuel with the reagent
added, turned a deep purple letting me know the kit does work as advertised.

Unfortunately I don't see it advertised anymore.

Paul
N1431A

[[email protected]]

Jay Honeck wrote:
[snip]
> even though the pumps here in Iowa
> are clearly labeled. Well, a guy on a Cherokee 235 mail group has come
> up with the following method to test for water AND alcohol at the same
> time -- tell me what you think of this:
>
> 1. Put fuel in cup.
> 2. Add 1/4 of an alka-seltzer to fuel
> 3. If no fizz, no water OR alcohol is present.
[snip]
Jay,

Sorry if this is obvious, but...

Get some ethanol enhanced gas from a labeled pump and try it. If it
reacts to known alcohol and dosen't to know good gas, then it ought to
be OK.

John Stevens
(muttering: What do they teach in those schools...)

[Ron Natalie]

Jay Honeck wrote:
>> Get some ethanol enhanced gas from a labeled pump and try it. If it
>> reacts to known alcohol and dosen't to know good gas, then it ought to
>> be OK.
>>
>> John Stevens
>> (muttering: What do they teach in those schools...)
>
> I'm curious to know if the alka-seltzer method is chemically valid, and
> why it works -- not just that it works.
>
> Anyone know?
> --

I've got my doubts. AlkaSeltzer fizzes because it contains primarily
citric acid and sodium bicarbonate and these disassociate in the water
and generate carbon dioxide (and sodium citrate). I don't think they'll
disassociate in either gasoline or ethanol. Any fizzing in the
ethanol is probably due to water dissolved therein.

[Jim Macklin]

Call a high school or college chemistry teacher.



"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
oups.com...
|> Get some ethanol enhanced gas from a labeled pump and try
it. If it
| > reacts to known alcohol and dosen't to know good gas,
then it ought to
| > be OK.
| >
| > John Stevens
| > (muttering: What do they teach in those schools...)
|
| I'm curious to know if the alka-seltzer method is
chemically valid, and
| why it works -- not just that it works.
|
| Anyone know?
| --
| Jay Honeck
| Iowa City, IA
| Pathfinder N56993
| www.AlexisParkInn.com
| "Your Aviation Destination"
|

[[email protected]]

Jim Macklin wrote:
> Call a high school or college chemistry teacher.

I bet they won't know, either. My son used to come home from
High School with all sorts of mistaken stuff he learned in Science
Class, from electricity to metallurgy.

Dan

[Jim Macklin]

I should have said, competent
> wrote in message
oups.com...
|
| Jim Macklin wrote:
| > Call a high school or college chemistry teacher.
|
| I bet they won't know, either. My son used to
come home from
| High School with all sorts of mistaken stuff he learned in
Science
| Class, from electricity to metallurgy.
|
| Dan
|

[Viperdoc[_1_]]

Jay:

In a previous life I was a chemistry major, and in fact went to graduate
school and worked as an chemist before moving on.

Your premise regarding the alka seltzer doesn't make much sense chemically.
In fact, the addition of the ethanol may increase the solubility of water in
the mix, since it is more polar than the normal hydrocarbons contained in
gasoline. However, it's been a long time, but if I find some Alka Seltzer we
can try it in my lab.

JN

[Jose[_1_]]

> Your premise regarding the alka seltzer doesn't make much sense chemically.
> In fact, the addition of the ethanol may increase the solubility of water in
> the mix, since it is more polar than the normal hydrocarbons contained in
> gasoline. However, it's been a long time, but if I find some Alka Seltzer we
> can try it in my lab.

The difference between theory and practice is that in theory there is no
difference.

In practice, there is.

:) Jose
--
The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the music.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Viperdoc[_1_]]

Hopefully we won't need too much Alka Seltzer after the party. BTW, do you
recommend getting a rental car?

JN


"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>> Your premise regarding the alka seltzer doesn't make much sense
>> chemically.
>> In fact, the addition of the ethanol may increase the solubility of water
>> in
>> the mix, since it is more polar than the normal hydrocarbons contained in
>> gasoline. However, it's been a long time, but if I find some Alka Seltzer
>> we
>> can try it in my lab.
>
> Well, if you bring the alka-seltzer to the pool party Saturday, we'll
> have some fun! (And, no, you may NOT drop a bunch of that stuff in
> the pool, no matter HOW cool it looks...)
>
> :-)
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>

[john smith]

In article . com>,
"Jay Honeck" > wrote:

> I'm curious to know if the alka-seltzer method is chemically valid, and
> why it works -- not just that it works.

First question.... this group should know the answer... where can one
purchase pure grain alcohol (ethanol)?

Will the additives to denatured alcohol interfere with the chemical
reaction with the alkaseltzer?

[Larry Dighera]

On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 14:09:44 GMT, john smith > wrote in
>::

>where can one purchase pure grain alcohol (ethanol)?


http://www.hoboes.com/pub/Prohibition/Legal%20Drugs/Alcohol/Everclear%20FAQ
The "plain" Everclear comes in two strengths: 153 proof and 190 proof
(95% ethanol).

http://www.chms.ucdavis.edu/forms/Ethanol_Request_Form.pdf%23search='ethanol%2520pur chase'
CHMS Ethanol Purchase Request. Campus policy and the IRS requires that
the distribution and use of tax-free ethanol be closely. monitored.

[soxinbox[_1_]]

Everclear and GoldenGrain are 5% water.
It is hard to get pure ethanol because as soon as it is exposed to air, it
will suck any moisture out of the air and into the ethanol. If you had a
bottle of pure ethanol, and opened the lid and let it sit for a few minutes,
it would no longer be pure ethanol.

"Larry Dighera" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 14:09:44 GMT, john smith > wrote in
> >::
>
>>where can one purchase pure grain alcohol (ethanol)?
>
>
> http://www.hoboes.com/pub/Prohibition/Legal%20Drugs/Alcohol/Everclear%20FAQ
> The "plain" Everclear comes in two strengths: 153 proof and 190 proof
> (95% ethanol).
>
> http://www.chms.ucdavis.edu/forms/Ethanol_Request_Form.pdf%23search='ethanol%2520pur chase'
> CHMS Ethanol Purchase Request. Campus policy and the IRS requires that
> the distribution and use of tax-free ethanol be closely. monitored.
>

[Jose[_1_]]

> It is hard to get pure ethanol because as soon as it is exposed to air, it
> will suck any moisture out of the air and into the ethanol.

How quickly? Sure once you open it it is no longer pure, but it may be
"pure enough".

Jose
--
The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the music.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Jay Honeck]

> Hopefully we won't need too much Alka Seltzer after the party. BTW, do you
> recommend getting a rental car?

Nah -- we'll pick you up at the airport, food and drink are free at the
inn, and you can always use our courtesy van. (Of course, there may be
a few others tagging along with you, and I'll be using it to buzz back
and forth from the airport, which is a whopping 400 yards away... :-)

Hertz is on the field at our airport now, but Enterprise is just a few
blocks away, will come pick you up, and are about 30% cheaper. If you
really think you need a car, I'd recommend Enterprise.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"