CRM for the Private Pilot..

[Dan[_1_]]

Can anyone point me towards some good resources for CRM in a
non-professional environment with two pilots? (i.e. which pilot should
do what?)

I'm looking to do some personal flying with other pilots and would like
both of us to participate in the flight and be able to divide up the
PF/PNF tasks properly, or at least put some structure with it. Any
tips?

--Dan

[Jay Honeck]

> Can anyone point me towards some good resources for CRM in a
> non-professional environment with two pilots? (i.e. which pilot should
> do what?)

I suggest marrying the other pilot. It keeps things in perspective.

(Hey, it works for Mary and me...)

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Mortimer Schnerd, RN[_1_]]

Dan wrote:
> I'm looking to do some personal flying with other pilots and would like
> both of us to participate in the flight and be able to divide up the
> PF/PNF tasks properly, or at least put some structure with it. Any
> tips?


If it were me (and I've only flown without a crew all these years), what I'd
give the other guy to do is the navigation and communication chores. He needs
to keep his hands off the yoke, flaps, gear, etc unless you're taking a break.
OTOH, he sets up the radios, does all the talking, determines position, etc.
while you leave his stuff alone.

This assumes you trust him to do this. Situations vary.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

[Larry Dighera]

On 21 Jul 2006 20:30:44 -0700, "Dan" > wrote in
om>::

>Can anyone point me towards some good resources for CRM in a
>non-professional environment with two pilots? (i.e. which pilot should
>do what?)


I copied this out of a magazine several years ago when I was often
flying with another pilot:


Cockpit Resource Management


CRM is the effective use of all resources - hardware, software,
leadership, and humanware - to achieve safe and efficient flight
operation.


Don't divide duties as they are on most airlines. There, the
pilot becomes too dependent on a copilot, because the pilot simply
flies the aircraft, while the copilot does everything else - radios,
navigation, checklists, and backing up the pilot as to proper
altitudes and headings.


The CRM philosophy puts the onus on the pilot for communications,
checklists, and decision making. Decisions are based on the concerns
of the less comfortable pilot. The copilot handles navigation,
cross-checks the pilot's communication and navigation frequencies for
an instrument approach, and assures that the altitude requirements are
met at the final approach fix and at minimums. The copilot still has
plenty to do, managing the aircraft's loran, RNAV radio, or handheld
GPS moving map display that is used as a backup. In addition, the
copilot scans for other traffic, keeps a running check on fields in
which to land - just in case - and keeps track of the nearest airport.
The copilot knows s/he is to support and backup the pilot and offer
help in emergency situations.


Pre-takeoff briefing is important for any flight; it can be
abbreviated, however, when another pilot is aboard. It can be as
simple as thinking out loud. If you expect the other pilot to help
with the flight, say so before takeoff. Spend several minutes before
the flight explaining to the non-pilot passenger how to control the
aircraft and how to communicate. Once in the air, spend a few minutes
letting the passenger fly. It is fun for the passenger and gives the
pilot another resource to use in case of a medical emergency.

[Doug Vetter]

Dan wrote:
> Can anyone point me towards some good resources for CRM in a
> non-professional environment with two pilots? (i.e. which pilot should
> do what?)

I wrote an article describing what I do that you may find helpful. Go
to my site and click through:

Aviation->Articles->Miscellaneous->Crew Procedures

And although it's more of a travelogue rather than strictly crew-ops
oriented, you may find another article helpful. Click through:

Aviation->Articles->Travelogues->Crew Operations

Safe flying,

-Doug

--------------------
Doug Vetter, ATP/CFI

http://www.dvatp.com
--------------------

[Travis Marlatte]

By the posts that I have seen, apparently, there hasn't been much study done
in this area. The articles I have seen over the years either deal with CRM
in a commercial, crew setting or with non-pilot spouses. I did find this
article by Mark Twombly from 1996 that basically says we are a bunch of
independent-minded PICs that need to CYA when flying with other pilots.
http://www.aopa.org/members/files/pilot/1996/mrt9609.html

For context, I am PP SEL, SES, IA. Just a weekend flyer. About 200
hours/year. I have a number of friend pilots that I fly with on a regular
basis.

Flying with another pilot in a small plane is completely different than any
other situation. The commercial guys have been through the same training and
can have the concepts and their role in CRM more clearly defined. With
non-pilot spouses, there is a clear assignment of responsibility and, with
most spouses, an automatic deferal to the PIC. In the beginning, it will be
very much an assignment of tasks by the PIC to the spouse.

Since we are talking about fellow-pilots who are theoretically both capable
of being PIC, it is all about trust and communication. Communication can be
created. Trust must grow. How I approach CRM depends on how much time I have
with the other pilot.

With someone new to me, I make it clear who is PIC. If I am PIC, then I make
it clear what I expect from the other person. If I am not PIC, then I defer
up to a point. If the other pilot hasn't said much by the time they are
ready to turn the key, then I do. I want to make it clear that it is their
flight and that, if they expect me to take an active role, they need to
speak up. What must be avoided is an "if you don't know, I'm not going to
tell you" attitude once airborn.

As the comfort level grows, division of duties can be leveraged. Some of my
flights are IFR refresher flights. I want to do as much of the flying as
possible to simulate single-pilot IFR workload. Most of the time, the other
guy is just a pair of eyes. I do fly with a couple of pilots who I do trust
and they will have a more active role of providing "vectors" and creating
scenarios.

Otherwise, my relationships with other pilots range from identifying sole
responsibility for the flight to shared duties. And, it varies from flight
to flight even with the same pilot. Since we are in a single-pilot plane, I
have had friends show up and say, "I would like to just go along for the
ride today. Is that OK?" I enjoy both. Riding along as the passenger
watching the scenery go by is very relaxing. Interacting in a crew
environment is exciting, stimulating and always a learning opportunity.

Just be sure who is doing the relaxing and who is doing the flying.

--
-------------------------------
Travis
Lake N3094P
PWK

"Doug Vetter" > wrote in message
...
> Dan wrote:
>> Can anyone point me towards some good resources for CRM in a
>> non-professional environment with two pilots? (i.e. which pilot should
>> do what?)
>
> I wrote an article describing what I do that you may find helpful. Go to
> my site and click through:
>
> Aviation->Articles->Miscellaneous->Crew Procedures
>
> And although it's more of a travelogue rather than strictly crew-ops
> oriented, you may find another article helpful. Click through:
>
> Aviation->Articles->Travelogues->Crew Operations
>
> Safe flying,
>
> -Doug
>
> --------------------
> Doug Vetter, ATP/CFI
>
> http://www.dvatp.com
> --------------------

[John T[_2_]]

"Travis Marlatte" > wrote in message
om
>
> For context, I am PP SEL, SES, IA. Just a weekend flyer. About 200
> hours/year. I have a number of friend pilots that I fly with on a
> regular basis.

Just a weekend flyer getting about 200 hours per year? That's a lot of
flying every weekend. :)

--
John T
http://sage1solutions.com/TknoFlyer
Reduce spam. Use Sender Policy Framework: http://spf.pobox.com
____________________

[Dan[_1_]]

Doug,

Thanks for the reference, that was a good article.

--Dan

Doug Vetter wrote:
> Dan wrote:
> > Can anyone point me towards some good resources for CRM in a
> > non-professional environment with two pilots? (i.e. which pilot should
> > do what?)
>
> I wrote an article describing what I do that you may find helpful. Go
> to my site and click through:
>
> Aviation->Articles->Miscellaneous->Crew Procedures
>
> And although it's more of a travelogue rather than strictly crew-ops
> oriented, you may find another article helpful. Click through:
>
> Aviation->Articles->Travelogues->Crew Operations
>
> Safe flying,
>
> -Doug
>
> --------------------
> Doug Vetter, ATP/CFI
>
> http://www.dvatp.com
> --------------------

[Chris G.]

This is a well-written article. Thanks for sharing.

Recently, my friend and I flew from KALE-KAWO to the NW EAA Fly-In at
Arlington, WA, USA. He has decided to go for his instrument rating and
wanted to brush up on his flying skills under the hood. We left Salem
very early and he put on his hood. As I was not PIC, he had final
authority on everything. This was a very clear understanding between
us. However, he did delegate radios and navigation to me. By doing
this, we had a fun flight for both of us on the way up and back. We
both have strong, dominant personalities, so sometimes we stepped on
each other a little bit, but it was to ensure safety-of-flight.

As it was my first time as SIC and as Safety Pilot, it was a learning
experience. I enjoyed it a lot.

Good luck Dan,

Chris

Travis Marlatte wrote:
> By the posts that I have seen, apparently, there hasn't been much study done
> in this area. The articles I have seen over the years either deal with CRM
> in a commercial, crew setting or with non-pilot spouses. I did find this
> article by Mark Twombly from 1996 that basically says we are a bunch of
> independent-minded PICs that need to CYA when flying with other pilots.
> http://www.aopa.org/members/files/pilot/1996/mrt9609.html
>
> For context, I am PP SEL, SES, IA. Just a weekend flyer. About 200
> hours/year. I have a number of friend pilots that I fly with on a regular
> basis.
>
> Flying with another pilot in a small plane is completely different than any
> other situation. The commercial guys have been through the same training and
> can have the concepts and their role in CRM more clearly defined. With
> non-pilot spouses, there is a clear assignment of responsibility and, with
> most spouses, an automatic deferal to the PIC. In the beginning, it will be
> very much an assignment of tasks by the PIC to the spouse.
>
> Since we are talking about fellow-pilots who are theoretically both capable
> of being PIC, it is all about trust and communication. Communication can be
> created. Trust must grow. How I approach CRM depends on how much time I have
> with the other pilot.
>
> With someone new to me, I make it clear who is PIC. If I am PIC, then I make
> it clear what I expect from the other person. If I am not PIC, then I defer
> up to a point. If the other pilot hasn't said much by the time they are
> ready to turn the key, then I do. I want to make it clear that it is their
> flight and that, if they expect me to take an active role, they need to
> speak up. What must be avoided is an "if you don't know, I'm not going to
> tell you" attitude once airborn.
>
> As the comfort level grows, division of duties can be leveraged. Some of my
> flights are IFR refresher flights. I want to do as much of the flying as
> possible to simulate single-pilot IFR workload. Most of the time, the other
> guy is just a pair of eyes. I do fly with a couple of pilots who I do trust
> and they will have a more active role of providing "vectors" and creating
> scenarios.
>
> Otherwise, my relationships with other pilots range from identifying sole
> responsibility for the flight to shared duties. And, it varies from flight
> to flight even with the same pilot. Since we are in a single-pilot plane, I
> have had friends show up and say, "I would like to just go along for the
> ride today. Is that OK?" I enjoy both. Riding along as the passenger
> watching the scenery go by is very relaxing. Interacting in a crew
> environment is exciting, stimulating and always a learning opportunity.
>
> Just be sure who is doing the relaxing and who is doing the flying.
>

[Travis Marlatte]

I gotta keep the per hour cost down somehow!!

--
-------------------------------
Travis
Lake N3094P
PWK

"John T" > wrote in message
m...
> "Travis Marlatte" > wrote in message
> om
>>
>> For context, I am PP SEL, SES, IA. Just a weekend flyer. About 200
>> hours/year. I have a number of friend pilots that I fly with on a
>> regular basis.
>
> Just a weekend flyer getting about 200 hours per year? That's a lot of
> flying every weekend. :)
>
> --
> John T
> http://sage1solutions.com/TknoFlyer
> Reduce spam. Use Sender Policy Framework: http://spf.pobox.com
> ____________________
>
>