Finding Rentals

[Greg Copeland[_1_]]

Is there a website which makes it easy to find a rental in a city and/or
at an airport of your choosing? The plane I trained in was fine for
training but it's a well used trainer. For local flights, I'm okay with
using it but for some longer flights I'd prefer to rent something else.
The flight school I'm at does have other craft, but not at prices I'm
willing to way. Besides, most of those "other" are complex and I do not
have my complex endorcement. And so, I'm left wondering if there is an
easy way to locate planes to rent? Any such site?

Greg

[john smith]

In article >,
Greg Copeland > wrote:

> Is there a website which makes it easy to find a rental in a city and/or
> at an airport of your choosing? The plane I trained in was fine for
> training but it's a well used trainer. For local flights, I'm okay with
> using it but for some longer flights I'd prefer to rent something else.
> The flight school I'm at does have other craft, but not at prices I'm
> willing to way. Besides, most of those "other" are complex and I do not
> have my complex endorcement. And so, I'm left wondering if there is an
> easy way to locate planes to rent? Any such site?

If you specify a city or town, the folks on this group can refer you to
specific recommendations as to FBO's to contact.
If renting from an FBO, count on a minimum two-hour check out flight
before they will rent to you. Call ahead and make an appointment for the
time you will be there. Ask what paperwork and proof of insurance you
need to bring.

[[email protected]]

On Sun, 23 Jul 2006 16:17:40 GMT, john smith > wrote:

>In article >,
> Greg Copeland > wrote:
>
>> Is there a website which makes it easy to find a rental in a city and/or
>> at an airport of your choosing? The plane I trained in was fine for
>> training but it's a well used trainer. For local flights, I'm okay with
>> using it but for some longer flights I'd prefer to rent something else.
>> The flight school I'm at does have other craft, but not at prices I'm
>> willing to way. Besides, most of those "other" are complex and I do not
>> have my complex endorcement. And so, I'm left wondering if there is an
>> easy way to locate planes to rent? Any such site?
>
>If you specify a city or town, the folks on this group can refer you to
>specific recommendations as to FBO's to contact.
>If renting from an FBO, count on a minimum two-hour check out flight
>before they will rent to you. Call ahead and make an appointment for the
>time you will be there. Ask what paperwork and proof of insurance you
>need to bring.

Why a 2 hour check, depends on the pilot?
I did the 1 hour minimum in Honolulu and they completed my BFR and let
me rent a C172. More important was the ground school as I was not
familiar with Class B operation as I'm from UK. Twice only 1 hour at
Titusville in Florida before flying to Bahamas and 30 mins in Venice
Florida before flying along the coast and to the Keys.

Has something changed?

David

[Greg Copeland[_1_]]

On Sun, 23 Jul 2006 16:17:40 +0000, john smith wrote:

> In article >,
> Greg Copeland > wrote:
>
>> Is there a website which makes it easy to find a rental in a city and/or
>> at an airport of your choosing? The plane I trained in was fine for
>> training but it's a well used trainer. For local flights, I'm okay with
>> using it but for some longer flights I'd prefer to rent something else.
>> The flight school I'm at does have other craft, but not at prices I'm
>> willing to way. Besides, most of those "other" are complex and I do not
>> have my complex endorcement. And so, I'm left wondering if there is an
>> easy way to locate planes to rent? Any such site?
>
> If you specify a city or town, the folks on this group can refer you to
> specific recommendations as to FBO's to contact.
> If renting from an FBO, count on a minimum two-hour check out flight
> before they will rent to you. Call ahead and make an appointment for the
> time you will be there. Ask what paperwork and proof of insurance you
> need to bring.

I'm expecting a 1-2 hour check out. Speaking of which, can you share with
me what to expect? Just proof that I can competently fly and time to
become familair with the plane? Or something more involved from the PTS?

I'd love to have some options from KDTO. I did my training at 52F; as
such, that's where I've been renting. But KDTO is about half the
distance for me. I've already started checking into renting from US
Flight Academy (http://www.usflightacademy.com/iFacility-Denton.htm), as
they are only 15 minutes from my house. I drove around there yesteday and
they were the only place I could find. A year ago there were three or
four smaller players there too but couldn't find any signs this trip. The
airport has a tower (VFR, IIRC), is pretty clean, has new hangars being
built, etc...in other words, is growing nicely. As such, I was expecting
to find more out there. Anyone know if I missed anyone?

In fact, if I pull the trigger on purchasing a plane at years end, that's
where I intend to keep it.


Greg

[[email protected]]

On Sun, 23 Jul 2006 11:33:05 -0500, Greg Copeland >
wrote:

>On Sun, 23 Jul 2006 16:17:40 +0000, john smith wrote:
>
>> In article >,
>> Greg Copeland > wrote:
>>
>>> Is there a website which makes it easy to find a rental in a city and/or
>>> at an airport of your choosing? The plane I trained in was fine for
>>> training but it's a well used trainer. For local flights, I'm okay with
>>> using it but for some longer flights I'd prefer to rent something else.
>>> The flight school I'm at does have other craft, but not at prices I'm
>>> willing to way. Besides, most of those "other" are complex and I do not
>>> have my complex endorcement. And so, I'm left wondering if there is an
>>> easy way to locate planes to rent? Any such site?
>>
>> If you specify a city or town, the folks on this group can refer you to
>> specific recommendations as to FBO's to contact.
>> If renting from an FBO, count on a minimum two-hour check out flight
>> before they will rent to you. Call ahead and make an appointment for the
>> time you will be there. Ask what paperwork and proof of insurance you
>> need to bring.
>
>I'm expecting a 1-2 hour check out. Speaking of which, can you share with
>me what to expect? Just proof that I can competently fly and time to
>become familair with the plane? Or something more involved from the PTS?
>
>I'd love to have some options from KDTO. I did my training at 52F; as
>such, that's where I've been renting. But KDTO is about half the
>distance for me. I've already started checking into renting from US
>Flight Academy (http://www.usflightacademy.com/iFacility-Denton.htm), as
>they are only 15 minutes from my house. I drove around there yesteday and
>they were the only place I could find. A year ago there were three or
>four smaller players there too but couldn't find any signs this trip. The
>airport has a tower (VFR, IIRC), is pretty clean, has new hangars being
>built, etc...in other words, is growing nicely. As such, I was expecting
>to find more out there. Anyone know if I missed anyone?
>
>In fact, if I pull the trigger on purchasing a plane at years end, that's
>where I intend to keep it.
>
>
>Greg

If you're in AOPA you can search the airport database for an area and
specify withn a range. Then look at FBO's, many have websites.
That's what I do whenever I visit the USA.

David

[john smith]

In article >,
wrote:

> On Sun, 23 Jul 2006 16:17:40 GMT, john smith > wrote:
>
> >In article >,
> > Greg Copeland > wrote:
> >
> >> Is there a website which makes it easy to find a rental in a city and/or
> >> at an airport of your choosing? The plane I trained in was fine for
> >> training but it's a well used trainer. For local flights, I'm okay with
> >> using it but for some longer flights I'd prefer to rent something else.
> >> The flight school I'm at does have other craft, but not at prices I'm
> >> willing to way. Besides, most of those "other" are complex and I do not
> >> have my complex endorcement. And so, I'm left wondering if there is an
> >> easy way to locate planes to rent? Any such site?
> >
> >If you specify a city or town, the folks on this group can refer you to
> >specific recommendations as to FBO's to contact.
> >If renting from an FBO, count on a minimum two-hour check out flight
> >before they will rent to you. Call ahead and make an appointment for the
> >time you will be there. Ask what paperwork and proof of insurance you
> >need to bring.
>
> Why a 2 hour check, depends on the pilot?
> I did the 1 hour minimum in Honolulu and they completed my BFR and let
> me rent a C172. More important was the ground school as I was not
> familiar with Class B operation as I'm from UK. Twice only 1 hour at
> Titusville in Florida before flying to Bahamas and 30 mins in Venice
> Florida before flying along the coast and to the Keys.

I have been told it is for insurance purposes.
When I rented in Oregon five years ago, I was keeping the aircraft
overnight on a multiday trip, which may also be another reason for the
two hours.

I am pleased to hear some areas are only 1 hour or less. Where those
local only flights?

[Greg Copeland[_1_]]

On Sun, 23 Jul 2006 17:54:36 +0100, NOSPAM wrote:
[snip]
>
> If you're in AOPA you can search the airport database for an area and
> specify withn a range. Then look at FBO's, many have websites.
> That's what I do whenever I visit the USA.
>
> David

Good idea. Thanks!

Greg

[Emily[_1_]]

Greg Copeland wrote:
>
> become familair with the plane? Or something more involved from the PTS?
>
> I'd love to have some options from KDTO. I did my training at 52F; as
> such, that's where I've been renting. But KDTO is about half the
> distance for me. I've already started checking into renting from US
> Flight Academy (http://www.usflightacademy.com/iFacility-Denton.htm), as
> they are only 15 minutes from my house. I drove around there yesteday and
> they were the only place I could find. A year ago there were three or
> four smaller players there too but couldn't find any signs this trip. The
> airport has a tower (VFR, IIRC), is pretty clean, has new hangars being
> built, etc...in other words, is growing nicely. As such, I was expecting
> to find more out there. Anyone know if I missed anyone?

Have you tried Flight Line? I'm not sure if it's the same Flight Line
at ADS (I wasn't impressed with them at ADS at all) but it's worth a
try. I think US Flight Academy is strictly a pilot mill...but that's
all the info I have on DTO. It's a little too far for me to drive.

I'm guessing though, since the tower just opened recently, there's
something out there, you just need to look.

[john smith]

In article >,
Greg Copeland > wrote:

> I'm expecting a 1-2 hour check out. Speaking of which, can you share with
> me what to expect? Just proof that I can competently fly and time to
> become familair with the plane? Or something more involved from the PTS?

What I had to do was like a BFR, demonstrate types of landings and
takeoffs, stalls, etc.

[Emily[_1_]]

john smith wrote:
> In article >,
> Greg Copeland > wrote:
>
>> I'm expecting a 1-2 hour check out. Speaking of which, can you share with
>> me what to expect? Just proof that I can competently fly and time to
>> become familair with the plane? Or something more involved from the PTS?
>
> What I had to do was like a BFR, demonstrate types of landings and
> takeoffs, stalls, etc.

I've had checkouts like that, and checkouts where the guy just had me
land twice. Oddly, the landing twice was in a twin, and the BFR type
checkout was a 172. I don't know.

[Jim Macklin]

A rental checkout should include a check on license and
ratings and medical certificate. This gives you a chance to
talk about previous experience and currency. I've flown
20,000 + hour airline captains who haven't flown
single-pilot in decades and CFIs who fly every day in one or
more types of airplanes.

The airline pilot wanted a long checkout, it was his
grandchildren he wanted to take for a ride. He was good but
had come to rely on the co-pilot for radio work and such.
It took him longer to feel comfortable in an Archer than I
would have required.
I've flown owner's whose plane was in the shop and they
wanted to rent the same type from us. Some needed only .5
and some really needed 7 hours. I always have a checkout do
a manual gear extension and a stall and at least one
landing. But if they are weak on the informal oral or weak
in their airwork it takes longer. Some fail.

A good instructor probably knows before you actual take-off
how well it is going.



--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

"john smith" > wrote in message
...
| In article >,
| Greg Copeland > wrote:
|
| > I'm expecting a 1-2 hour check out. Speaking of which,
can you share with
| > me what to expect? Just proof that I can competently
fly and time to
| > become familair with the plane? Or something more
involved from the PTS?
|
| What I had to do was like a BFR, demonstrate types of
landings and
| takeoffs, stalls, etc.

[Greg Copeland]

Emily wrote:
[snip]
> Have you tried Flight Line? I'm not sure if it's the same Flight Line
> at ADS (I wasn't impressed with them at ADS at all) but it's worth a
> try. I think US Flight Academy is strictly a pilot mill...but that's
> all the info I have on DTO. It's a little too far for me to drive.
>
> I'm guessing though, since the tower just opened recently, there's
> something out there, you just need to look.

Addison is a very busy airport. Fuel tends to be very expensive and
the drive is 40-minutes to an hour depending on traffic. ADS just
isn't attractive to me.


Thanks,

Greg

[Emily[_1_]]

Greg Copeland wrote:
> Emily wrote:
> [snip]
>> Have you tried Flight Line? I'm not sure if it's the same Flight Line
>> at ADS (I wasn't impressed with them at ADS at all) but it's worth a
>> try. I think US Flight Academy is strictly a pilot mill...but that's
>> all the info I have on DTO. It's a little too far for me to drive.
>>
>> I'm guessing though, since the tower just opened recently, there's
>> something out there, you just need to look.
>
> Addison is a very busy airport. Fuel tends to be very expensive and
> the drive is 40-minutes to an hour depending on traffic. ADS just
> isn't attractive to me.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Greg
>
He, I love ADS, but I like busy airports. No, I meant I think there is
a Flight Line at DTO. You might want to try that. I'm kind of new to
the area, but I'll ask around and see if anyone knows of anyplace good
at DTO.

[Emily[_1_]]

Greg Copeland wrote:
> Emily wrote:
> [snip]
>
>> He, I love ADS, but I like busy airports. No, I meant I think there is
>> a Flight Line at DTO. You might want to try that. I'm kind of new to
>> the area, but I'll ask around and see if anyone knows of anyplace good
>> at DTO.
>
> I went and got checked out in a Warrior II at US Flight Academy at
> KDTO. The CFI I used was friendly and easy going.

I didn't realize they rented. How are their prices?

I remember flying into DTO for the first time the week after the tower
opened. Wow. That was scary...I learned that day that many pilot don't
read charts and didn't even know there was a tower. <g> Was back about
two months ago, and it seems like things have fallen into place pretty well.

[Emily[_1_]]

Greg Copeland wrote:
> Emily wrote:
<snip>
>
> It's $110/hr wet rate, including the fuel surcharge. Their instructors
> are expensive at $40/hr. They also an Arrow and several DA-20s, in
> addition to the two Warriors. Not to mention some type of sport plane.
> They also have a Seneca for $200/hr.

I'd be interested in the Seneca, but that's expensive! Last one I
rented went for $155. $110 seems really high for a Warrior, but the
G1000 is cheaper than I've paid (ADS has some for $130ish)

> Needless to say, things are much better now. The guys in the tower are
> GREAT! They enjoy students coming in. It's very trainer friendly.
> When they know you're a student, they're not shy about rating your
> landings either. All in good fun of course. After hours (8pm) the
> tower shuts down. While I was doing my checkout in the Warrior, we had
> some guys trying spot landings on the numbers. A good time was had by
> all.

They are a lot better. I went up there IFR one day and decided to do
some landings. lol Instructor and I got after a go around and didn't
get cleared touch and go our third time around. We were the only ones
for miles, and I don't think tower noticed or cared, luckily (my first
NASA form).

> If you are a student in the area and are ready for your solo, I highly
> recommend doing it at KAFW! Have your instructor call and chat with
> the tower and see if you can get an invite.
I soloed a loooong time ago, but I'm always looking for airports with
nice controllers. I've never been to AFW, actually, it's on the list,
but I'm not sure there's anything to do once you land. To be honest,
I'm terrified of flying around the metroplex VFR because I don't know
the roads or landmarks.

> enjoyable. That's the day I learned there were IFR and VFR towers.
Huh? I've been up in my fair share of towers, and that's the first time
I've heard that.

[Greg Copeland]

Emily wrote:
> Greg Copeland wrote:
> > Emily wrote:
> <snip>
> >
> > It's $110/hr wet rate, including the fuel surcharge. Their instructors
> > are expensive at $40/hr. They also an Arrow and several DA-20s, in
> > addition to the two Warriors. Not to mention some type of sport plane.
> > They also have a Seneca for $200/hr.
>
> I'd be interested in the Seneca, but that's expensive! Last one I
> rented went for $155. $110 seems really high for a Warrior, but the
> G1000 is cheaper than I've paid (ADS has some for $130ish)

They are expensive, which is why I didn't train there. Their prices
have come down a little. A year ago when I was looking for a flight
school, their prices worked out to be between $165 - 175/hr, including
the instructor. Needless to say, I easily found better.

I didn't have anything else to which I could compare a Warrior rental
price. So I compared it against a 172; as performance seems
comparible. Using that as a basis for comparison, it comes out a
little more expensive but it's a lot closer (half, or less, the travel
time) and I don't have to worry about race-day traffic and DPS,
etc..etc...on the way to the airport. Chances are, I'll go get checked
out in one of Marcair's 172's some time in the future...but that places
my drive time back up to 30-45 minutes...assuming no race-day traffic.
Not to mention, traffic at 52F can get really insane.

Proudly I can claim I helped prevent a midair at 52F because of some
nut that couldn't fly right. Needless to say, following my radio call,
I watch two planes execute a steep turn at the 45' entry; both to the
right. One pilot thanked me...the other buzzed off as quickly as he
could. That's the day it came home the importance of both, proper
radio calls (the one that left didn't report position - while the
inbound guy had been reporting from 10miles) and the importance of
using proper altitude within the pattern. The reckless guy (a high
wing Cessna) was below pattern and coming up into the guy (a low wing)
on the 45 entry. That combination was almost a really bad day for
someone.

Also, the RV fleet at 52F is rude, dangerous, and think nothing of
cutting people off in the pattern. Which is not to say I won't fly
there....I just don't prefer it and try to avoid flying when the RV's
do. The vast majority that fly there are good, safe pilots, but you do
have to be real careful there.

There is also some nut that flies a tail dragger out there that likes
to dive at the runway as he flies by. Not to mention, wait to the last
minute to pull up to avoid hitting the trees at the end of the runway.
Needless to say, the pilots at 52F are very colorful.

>
> > Needless to say, things are much better now. The guys in the tower are
> > GREAT! They enjoy students coming in. It's very trainer friendly.
> > When they know you're a student, they're not shy about rating your
> > landings either. All in good fun of course. After hours (8pm) the
> > tower shuts down. While I was doing my checkout in the Warrior, we had
> > some guys trying spot landings on the numbers. A good time was had by
> > all.
>
> They are a lot better. I went up there IFR one day and decided to do
> some landings. lol Instructor and I got after a go around and didn't
> get cleared touch and go our third time around. We were the only ones
> for miles, and I don't think tower noticed or cared, luckily (my first
> NASA form).
>
> > If you are a student in the area and are ready for your solo, I highly
> > recommend doing it at KAFW! Have your instructor call and chat with
> > the tower and see if you can get an invite.
> I soloed a loooong time ago, but I'm always looking for airports with
> nice controllers. I've never been to AFW, actually, it's on the list,
> but I'm not sure there's anything to do once you land. To be honest,
> I'm terrified of flying around the metroplex VFR because I don't know
> the roads or landmarks.
>

To be clear, unless its a stop for the speed way...or you're delivering
for Fed-Ex, or MAYBE can catch a navy pilot to BS with...otherwise,
there is nothing there.

> > enjoyable. That's the day I learned there were IFR and VFR towers.
> Huh? I've been up in my fair share of towers, and that's the first time
> I've heard that.

Ya, seems VFR towers can only separate traffic with clock facings
(north bound traffic at 2 'o clock). IFR towers can vector you around
it with specific headings and bearings. KAFW does have a scope but
they told me that can ONLY give clock headings and relative clock
bearings.

Greg

[Emily[_1_]]

Greg Copeland wrote:

>> <snip>
>
> They are expensive, which is why I didn't train there. Their prices
> have come down a little. A year ago when I was looking for a flight
> school, their prices worked out to be between $165 - 175/hr, including
> the instructor. Needless to say, I easily found better.
Yeah, i think ADS is cheaper. Then again, I don't usually fly with an
instructor, so that saves money right there.

> Not to mention, traffic at 52F can get really insane.
Where is 52F? Probably not close to me. I'm smacked between DAL and
DFW, so no airport is really close.

> Ya, seems VFR towers can only separate traffic with clock facings
> (north bound traffic at 2 'o clock). IFR towers can vector you around
> it with specific headings and bearings. KAFW does have a scope but
> they told me that can ONLY give clock headings and relative clock
> bearings.
Oh, you're talking actual radar vs. reading off someone else's feed.
Did someone at the tower describe it as IFR vs. VFR? Really, it's two
completely different things. I usually fly IFR and while I'm IFR, can
talk to any ATC facility. Whether or not they can see me is a different
story.

[Greg Copeland]

Emily wrote:
> Greg Copeland wrote:
>
> >> <snip>
> >
> > They are expensive, which is why I didn't train there. Their prices
> > have come down a little. A year ago when I was looking for a flight
> > school, their prices worked out to be between $165 - 175/hr, including
> > the instructor. Needless to say, I easily found better.
> Yeah, i think ADS is cheaper. Then again, I don't usually fly with an
> instructor, so that saves money right there.
>
> > Not to mention, traffic at 52F can get really insane.
> Where is 52F? Probably not close to me. I'm smacked between DAL and
> DFW, so no airport is really close.
>

52F is right across the highway from Texas Motor Speedway and spitting
distance from KAFW. In fact, 52F is right outside of KAFW's airspace
(the Speedway is within their airspace).

> > Ya, seems VFR towers can only separate traffic with clock facings
> > (north bound traffic at 2 'o clock). IFR towers can vector you around
> > it with specific headings and bearings. KAFW does have a scope but
> > they told me that can ONLY give clock headings and relative clock
> > bearings.
> Oh, you're talking actual radar vs. reading off someone else's feed.
> Did someone at the tower describe it as IFR vs. VFR? Really, it's two
> completely different things. I usually fly IFR and while I'm IFR, can
> talk to any ATC facility. Whether or not they can see me is a different
> story.

Ya. I don't remember the question I asked which got that response, but
they said, "We're only a VFR tower." To which I said, "What does that
mean?" That's where they told me they can only give out clock face
headings and bearings for traffic seperation.


Greg

[Greg Copeland]

Emily wrote:
> Greg Copeland wrote:
>
> >> <snip>
> >
> > They are expensive, which is why I didn't train there. Their prices
> > have come down a little. A year ago when I was looking for a flight
> > school, their prices worked out to be between $165 - 175/hr, including
> > the instructor. Needless to say, I easily found better.
> Yeah, i think ADS is cheaper. Then again, I don't usually fly with an
> instructor, so that saves money right there.
>
> > Not to mention, traffic at 52F can get really insane.
> Where is 52F? Probably not close to me. I'm smacked between DAL and
> DFW, so no airport is really close.
>
> > Ya, seems VFR towers can only separate traffic with clock facings
> > (north bound traffic at 2 'o clock). IFR towers can vector you around
> > it with specific headings and bearings. KAFW does have a scope but
> > they told me that can ONLY give clock headings and relative clock
> > bearings.
> Oh, you're talking actual radar vs. reading off someone else's feed.
> Did someone at the tower describe it as IFR vs. VFR? Really, it's two
> completely different things. I usually fly IFR and while I'm IFR, can
> talk to any ATC facility. Whether or not they can see me is a different
> story.

To be clear...I do not believe that reflected the type of flight
services they provide (IFR, VFR). For all I know it was local tower
jargon.

Greg

[Andrew Gideon]

On Thu, 27 Jul 2006 17:31:20 -0700, Greg Copeland wrote:

> To be clear...I do not believe that reflected the type of flight services
> they provide (IFR, VFR). For all I know it was local tower jargon.

I've no proof, but I've always assumed that this label referred to the
level of service that could be provided in IFR conditions. For example,
CDW is (as far as I know) capable of handling a single IFR (or SVFR)
operation in its airspace at a time. The reason: it cannot provide
separation.

TEB, on the other hand, provides separation and so can handle concurrent
IFRers.

Yet both airports are in their own class D airspaces.

From an equipment perspective, TEB has its own RADAR while CDW has a BRITE
from EWR. More, the local geography is such that only about half the
pattern is visible on the BRITE (due to a hill's shadow).

I assume that the equipment difference is the cause of the difference
in services, but it's also possible that the difference in services is why
the equipment is different.

- Andrew

[Andrew Gideon]

On Sun, 23 Jul 2006 14:41:09 -0500, Emily wrote:

> I've had checkouts like that, and checkouts where the guy just had me land
> twice.

The last rental checkout I did between getting my IFR rating and joining
my club required some approaches and some discussion about IFR operations.

- Andrew
http://flyingclub.org/

[Greg Copeland[_1_]]

On Thu, 27 Jul 2006 18:42:14 -0500, Emily wrote:

> $110 seems really high for a Warrior, but the
> G1000 is cheaper than I've paid (ADS has some for $130ish)

BTW, you never said what you would expect to pay for a Warrior.
??

Greg