Using radio to contact persons on ground while flying?

[steve[_1_]]

Hi Everyone,

Sorry if this is a stupid question, but I purchased a backup handheld radio
for cross country flights, etc. and was wondering if it is permitted to use
it so I can contact my family while flying over the local area.

I would use a frequency not used locally for any other purposes.

Your thoughts?

--
Thanks,

Steve

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

[Jim Macklin]

No, FCC rules control such use of aircraft frequencies.
They can listen to your transmissions to the airport. You'd
can install a Citizen Band or other radio, General Radio
Service
Personal Radio Services Information Page The General Mobile
Radio Service(GMRS) is a personal UHF radio service
available ... The FCC is preparing to implement a new
personal radio service, MURS. ...
www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Monitor/2254/radio2.html
- 13k - Cached - Similar pages


[PDF] FCC 601 FCC Application for Wireless
Telecommunications Bureau ... File Format: PDF/Adobe
Acrobat - View as HTML
applicable radio service rules found in Parts 22 and
90 of the Commission's ... FCC 601 - Main Form. August
2002 - Page 4. General Certification Statements ...
www.mrcbroadcast.com/FCC/601_Main-Sample.pdf - Similar
pages


What is GMRS (General Mobile Radio Service)? The apply for a
GMRS license, use the FCC's Universal Licensing System. ...
visit the FCC's page on General Mobile Radio Service (GMRS).
....
www.tech-faq.com/gmrs-general-mobile-radio-service.shtml
- 19k - Cached - Similar pages




"steve" > wrote in message
. ..
| Hi Everyone,
|
| Sorry if this is a stupid question, but I purchased a
backup handheld radio
| for cross country flights, etc. and was wondering if it is
permitted to use
| it so I can contact my family while flying over the local
area.
|
| I would use a frequency not used locally for any other
purposes.
|
| Your thoughts?
|
| --
| Thanks,
|
| Steve
|
| "When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk
the Earth
| with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been,
and there
| you will always long to return"
| - Leonardo Da Vinci
|
|

[RST Engineering]

Good advice from Morgans. One problem you are going to have is that the
ground station is going to have a hell of a time understanding what you are
saying due to the cabin noise. One way to overcome this is to get your
"ham" or amateur radio license, which gives you the right to "diddle" with
your radio to get the noise-cancelling aircraft headset microphone to
modulate the radio.

Jim



"Morgans" > wrote in message
...
>
> I would suggest that you use a small family band radio, like they sell at
> WallMart, or where ever. While they are probably not technically allowed
> to
> be used in the air, there is little chance anyone will put up a fuss.
> --
> Jim in NC
>

[Jose[_1_]]

> One problem you are going to have is that the
> ground station is going to have a hell of a time understanding what you are
> saying due to the cabin noise.

Actually I have used an FRS radio quite successfully air to ground.
It's great line of sight and works quite well. You don't have fifty
mile range, but for short distances it's worth a go.

Jose
--
The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the music.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[B A R R Y[_1_]]

RST Engineering wrote:
> Good advice from Morgans. One problem you are going to have is that the
> ground station is going to have a hell of a time understanding what you are
> saying due to the cabin noise. One way to overcome this is to get your
> "ham" or amateur radio license, which gives you the right to "diddle" with
> your radio to get the noise-cancelling aircraft headset microphone to
> modulate the radio.

All of my handheld FRS radios (Kenwood & Motorola) have external mic &
speaker connections. If my headset mic didn't modulate the radio
properly, an FRS handheld mic could be used, and the audio could be
patched into an aux input of the headset or an aftermarket cell phone
adaptor.

No license required.

[Morgans[_3_]]

"steve" > wrote in message
. ..
> Hi Everyone,
>
> Sorry if this is a stupid question, but I purchased a backup handheld
radio
> for cross country flights, etc. and was wondering if it is permitted to
use
> it so I can contact my family while flying over the local area.
>
> I would use a frequency not used locally for any other purposes.
>
> Your thoughts?
>

There are no airband frequencies used for contact for other than official
communications. The only exception is for people that hold special
liscenses for research and development.

One problem is, that while you are airborne, your signal will carry for
many, many miles, so you can not predict what is an unused frequency.

I would suggest that you use a small family band radio, like they sell at
WallMart, or where ever. While they are probably not technically allowed to
be used in the air, there is little chance anyone will put up a fuss.
--
Jim in NC

[Newps]

Legal? No. However it is done all the time.



steve wrote:
> Hi Everyone,
>
> Sorry if this is a stupid question, but I purchased a backup handheld radio
> for cross country flights, etc. and was wondering if it is permitted to use
> it so I can contact my family while flying over the local area.
>
> I would use a frequency not used locally for any other purposes.
>
> Your thoughts?
>

[Newps]

Jose wrote:

>> One problem you are going to have is that the ground station is going
>> to have a hell of a time understanding what you are saying due to the
>> cabin noise.
>
>
> Actually I have used an FRS radio quite successfully air to ground. It's
> great line of sight and works quite well. You don't have fifty mile
> range, but for short distances it's worth a go.
>

I have seen some with external mic and antenna connections.

[[email protected]]

well you could always tune to 123.45. But i would be carefull and
always take pilot lang.

[Allen[_1_]]

> wrote in message
ps.com...
> well you could always tune to 123.45. But i would be carefull and
> always take pilot lang.

That is the assigned freq for my facility so don't be using it around here!
We already listen to nonstop crap on it all day from the airliners flying
over.

[darthpup]

Use of any frequency within the band ascribed for aviation use for
other than aviation purposes is a violation of federal law. The US
Marshals may be knocking on your front door.
If you would like to contact your friends on the ground use a fequency
set aside for that purpose.

The fed has a site showing all feqs and their legal use.

[RST Engineering]

That's also the frequency for my facility and we have sued (and won) where
engineering time, aircraft time, and technician time were trashed by some
yoyo yakking to wingman charlie about the restaurant they were headed to.

123.4 and 123.45 are assigned to aviation manufacturers strictly for testing
aircraft and aircraft components.

Jim



"Allen" > wrote in message
.com...
>
> That is the assigned freq for my facility so don't be using it around
> here! We already listen to nonstop crap on it all day from the airliners
> flying over.
>

[John Galban]

RST Engineering wrote:
> That's also the frequency for my facility and we have sued (and won) where
> engineering time, aircraft time, and technician time were trashed by some
> yoyo yakking to wingman charlie about the restaurant they were headed to.
>
> 123.4 and 123.45 are assigned to aviation manufacturers strictly for testing
> aircraft and aircraft components.
>

I've taken up the cause to get the FAA to remove the erroneous
inclusion of 122.85 as an air-to-air frequency in the AIM. As you
pointed out to me several years ago, it is not and hasn't ever been a
legal air-to-air freq. except in special locations like the Grand
Canyon.

I got going on this when a firefighting outfit was using 122.85
(licensed and legal, air-to ground) to conduct forest fire Ops last
year. They were pleading on the frequency for everyone to shut up so
they could talk to their tankers and lead planes. Most pilots ignored
them and some even told the ground station that 122.85 was fair game,
per the AIM.

I've spent the last 6 months corresponding with the guy in charge of
AIM corrections in D.C. At first he gave me a bunch of erroneous
reasons why 122.85 is a valid air-to-air freq., but I've been shooting
them down one by one with the help of the FCC regs and a guy over at
the FCC.

It might be a futile cause, since the error has spread into "common
knowledge", but after what I heard last year, I thought it would be
worth a shot.

John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)

[Bob Martin]

RST Engineering wrote:
> That's also the frequency for my facility and we have sued (and won) where
> engineering time, aircraft time, and technician time were trashed by some
> yoyo yakking to wingman charlie about the restaurant they were headed to.
>
> 123.4 and 123.45 are assigned to aviation manufacturers strictly for testing
> aircraft and aircraft components.
>

I'll admit, we use 123.45 and 123.42 as our "button 2" when doing
formation work. Never heard anyone else using it around here, though.
Where's your facility (so I don't accidentally step on you guys)?

[Jim Macklin]

Other Frequency Usage Designated by FCC Use
Frequency

Air-to-air communications & private airports (not open
to the public).
122.750
122.850

Air-to-air communications (general aviation
helicopters).
123.025

Aviation instruction, Glider, Hot Air Balloon (not to
be used for advisory service).
123.300
123.500




"Bob Martin" > wrote in message
...
| RST Engineering wrote:
| > That's also the frequency for my facility and we have
sued (and won) where
| > engineering time, aircraft time, and technician time
were trashed by some
| > yoyo yakking to wingman charlie about the restaurant
they were headed to.
| >
| > 123.4 and 123.45 are assigned to aviation manufacturers
strictly for testing
| > aircraft and aircraft components.
| >
|
| I'll admit, we use 123.45 and 123.42 as our "button 2"
when doing
| formation work. Never heard anyone else using it around
here, though.
| Where's your facility (so I don't accidentally step on you
guys)?

[BTIZ]

"Jim Macklin" > wrote in message
news:vjexg.84077$ZW3.72622@dukeread04...
> Other Frequency Usage Designated by FCC Use
> Frequency
>
> Air-to-air communications & private airports (not open
> to the public).
> 122.750
> 122.850
>
> Air-to-air communications (general aviation
> helicopters).
> 123.025
>
> Aviation instruction, Glider, Hot Air Balloon (not to
> be used for advisory service).
> 123.300
> 123.500
>
>

Great... now they are going to be trashing my glider frequencies.. why'd you
have to go and tell them that. BT

[steve[_1_]]

Sorry to start the email firestorm. Now that I know it is not a legal
activity, I will not use it.

Besides, occasionally, having no way for your family to conact you isn't
always a bad thing. :-)

"steve" > wrote in message
. ..
> Hi Everyone,
>
> Sorry if this is a stupid question, but I purchased a backup handheld
> radio for cross country flights, etc. and was wondering if it is permitted
> to use it so I can contact my family while flying over the local area.
>
> I would use a frequency not used locally for any other purposes.
>
> Your thoughts?
>
> --
> Thanks,
>
> Steve
>
> "When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
> with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
> you will always long to return"
> - Leonardo Da Vinci
>
>

[RST Engineering]

Boy, you just don't get it, do you? I don't give a damn if you are near my
facility or some facility across the country. You use 123.45 and 123.42 for
"formation work" and you are subject to $10,000 an OCCURANCE (that's each
time you push the button, sir) plus a year in the FEDERAL pokey.

Don't believe me? Talk to the pilot of the Coors Silver Bullet airshow
aircraft. I don't know what he plea bargained the fine down to, but it was
north of five figures according to my sources. He avoided federal time by
pleading first offense.

I don't give a damn if you don't hear anybody around you using it. Some
poor schmuck that has about ten hours of careful data down in the microvolt
range gets honked up because you come on the line talking to wingman Joe at
hundreds of microvolts is not going to be a happy camper.

Remember, range in miles is equal to the (square root of 2*h), where h is
the altitude in feet. At 2000 feet AGL, you sterilize about 65 miles in
radius, or about 12,500 square miles. You don't HAVE to hear anybody on the
frequency to be interference to a legitimate user.

Why don't you just use a legal frequency? And don't ask me to pick a legal
frequency for you. I'm telling you what the legalities are on these two.

Jim




"Bob Martin" > wrote in message
...



>
> I'll admit, we use 123.45 and 123.42 as our "button 2" when doing
> formation work. Never heard anyone else using it around here, though.
> Where's your facility (so I don't accidentally step on you guys)?

[Jim Macklin]

Sorry, it is published in the AIM, don't we all know that by
heart?


"BTIZ" > wrote in message
news:qvexg.15007$6w.4393@fed1read11...
|
| "Jim Macklin" > wrote
in message
| news:vjexg.84077$ZW3.72622@dukeread04...
| > Other Frequency Usage Designated by FCC Use
| > Frequency
| >
| > Air-to-air communications & private airports (not
open
| > to the public).
| > 122.750
| > 122.850
| >
| > Air-to-air communications (general aviation
| > helicopters).
| > 123.025
| >
| > Aviation instruction, Glider, Hot Air Balloon (not
to
| > be used for advisory service).
| > 123.300
| > 123.500
| >
| >
|
| Great... now they are going to be trashing my glider
frequencies.. why'd you
| have to go and tell them that. BT
|
|

[Cub Driver]

On Mon, 24 Jul 2006 10:15:35 -0700, "steve" >
wrote:

>Your thoughts?

When boaters do this, the on-shore phone is known as "xxxx mobile" or
by the name of the boat's dinghy. However, boaters are not as
high-profile as pilots.

You could, I suppose, address the other person as "yellow Cessna" or
some such, on the air-to-air freq.


-- all the best, Dan Ford

email: usenet AT danford DOT net

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com

[Jim Macklin]

Why we fly, to get away.


Why we fly solo, see above.



"steve" > wrote in message
. ..
| Sorry to start the email firestorm. Now that I know it is
not a legal
| activity, I will not use it.
|
| Besides, occasionally, having no way for your family to
conact you isn't
| always a bad thing. :-)
|
| "steve" > wrote in message
| . ..
| > Hi Everyone,
| >
| > Sorry if this is a stupid question, but I purchased a
backup handheld
| > radio for cross country flights, etc. and was wondering
if it is permitted
| > to use it so I can contact my family while flying over
the local area.
| >
| > I would use a frequency not used locally for any other
purposes.
| >
| > Your thoughts?
| >
| > --
| > Thanks,
| >
| > Steve
| >
| > "When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk
the Earth
| > with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been,
and there
| > you will always long to return"
| > - Leonardo Da Vinci
| >
| >
|
|
|

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

"steve" > wrote in message
. ..
> Hi Everyone,
>
> Sorry if this is a stupid question, but I purchased a backup handheld
> radio for cross country flights, etc. and was wondering if it is permitted
> to use it so I can contact my family while flying over the local area.
>
> I would use a frequency not used locally for any other purposes.
>
> Your thoughts?
>

Is there something wrong with the portable phone you carry on your belt (or
in your pocket)?

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

[Grumman-581[_1_]]

On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 20:51:10 -0400, "Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe" <The Sea
Hawk at wow way d0t com> wrote:
> Is there something wrong with the portable phone you carry on your belt (or
> in your pocket)?

Other than the fact that it is supposedly not legal to use while in
the air either? Of course, that assumes that you are in an area with
cell phone reception and your phone works acceptably in the air...
I've found that the few times that I've tried to use mine, I don't get
a signal long enough to complete a call if I'm over 500 ft AGL...

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

"Grumman-581" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 20:51:10 -0400, "Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe" <The Sea
> Hawk at wow way d0t com> wrote:
>> Is there something wrong with the portable phone you carry on your belt
>> (or
>> in your pocket)?
>
> Other than the fact that it is supposedly not legal to use while in
> the air either?

Only if it really is a cell phone (as defined by the FCC) - which are about
as common as 8 track tapes nowadays.

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

[John Galban]

Jim Macklin wrote:
> Sorry, it is published in the AIM, don't we all know that by
> heart?
>
>
Jim,

If you'll see my post above, you'll see that although the AIM says
122.85 is valid for air-to-air, the FCC regs ( 47CFR87 ) say it's not.
The FCC regs are the ones which govern frequency usage, not the FAA.

Here's a snippet from an email I got from an FCC guy in DC that is
helping me out with this :

"Dear John: You are correct. Frequency 122.75 MHz is the only
designated air-to-air frequency and 122.85 MHz is designated for use in
the Grand Canyon area as well as 121.95 MHz and 127.05 MHz . You can
find that provision in 87.187 (bb) of the Rules.

You might point out to them that 87.323 is for Ground Stations;
communications from the ground to the air and it is primarily used
under this section on a secondary basis. The frequency 122.85 MHz is
primarily used and licensed to Aviation Multicom ground stations for
ground to air communications. (See 87.237 and 87.241) You can locate
our rules online at http://wireless.fcc.gov/rules.html "

John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)

[.Blueskies.]

Pretty soon cell phones will be usable...



"steve" > wrote in message . ..
: Sorry to start the email firestorm. Now that I know it is not a legal
: activity, I will not use it.
:
: Besides, occasionally, having no way for your family to conact you isn't
: always a bad thing. :-)
:
: "steve" > wrote in message
: . ..
: > Hi Everyone,
: >
: > Sorry if this is a stupid question, but I purchased a backup handheld
: > radio for cross country flights, etc. and was wondering if it is permitted
: > to use it so I can contact my family while flying over the local area.
: >
: > I would use a frequency not used locally for any other purposes.
: >
: > Your thoughts?
: >
: > --
: > Thanks,
: >
: > Steve
: >
: > "When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
: > with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
: > you will always long to return"
: > - Leonardo Da Vinci
: >
: >
:
:
:
:

[John Galban]

..Blueskies. wrote:
> Pretty soon cell phones will be usable...
>
Most non-analog phones are legal, but usable is in the eye of the
beholder. The mobile phone companies got smart with the 2nd
generation of phones and angled most antennas towards the ground to
remove the problem of airborne use. I generally can't get a good
signal on a digital phone above 1,500 ft. AGL. You location and
mileage may vary.

John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)

[Mike Schumann]

I can't even get my cell phone to work at the top of the empire state
building.

Mike Schumann

"Grumman-581" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 20:51:10 -0400, "Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe" <The Sea
> Hawk at wow way d0t com> wrote:
>> Is there something wrong with the portable phone you carry on your belt
>> (or
>> in your pocket)?
>
> Other than the fact that it is supposedly not legal to use while in
> the air either? Of course, that assumes that you are in an area with
> cell phone reception and your phone works acceptably in the air...
> I've found that the few times that I've tried to use mine, I don't get
> a signal long enough to complete a call if I'm over 500 ft AGL...