Newbie glider pilot finally got to fly

[Don Byrer]

Hi all...

I've made a few misc posts here...but never asked what was really was
on my mind...

How (and where) the heck do I learn to fly gliders?
(this doesn't seem to be discussed...usually topics for experienced
pilots/owners)

I'm a 300-ish hour Commercial-SEL with aspirations of becoming a
single engine CFI.
But, ya know what? All the studying is getting old, and I really
wanna go DO something new...
Especially something I can do for a reasonable price. No more
financing my flying...ever!

I've always felt my stick-n-rudder skills and power-off landings could
be better, too.

I found Fun Country Soaring here in NE OH at 67D, Reader-Botsford
airport....About 40 mins SW of Cleveland.
Finally had a day off and a few extra $$ last Sunday.
Did two flights in an L-13. Aero-tow to 3000 AGL, CFI allowed me to
fly the tow from 1000' both times,
did OK the first time, got the line slack the second time and got
yanked.
He let me do the the full landing on the second trip. No lift, .3
and .4 per flight, but still fun and educational!.
(and still cheaper than a 172 at $125/hour)

Hung out the whole day and got to watch a long-time student solo.
His parents had come out to watch and were surprised that he
soloed...plus...he found some lift and was up almost an hour with a 3K
tow.
Not bad for NE Ohio...

I had a ball! Got a lot of sunburn too :)

I even rescheduled a Doc appt during the week so I can go fly.

How about hearing from some other newbies out there???

Don Byrer KJ5KB







Don Byrer KJ5KB
Radar Tech & Smilin' Commercial Pilot Guy
Glider student & CFI-SEL wannabe
kj5kb-at-hotmail.com

"I have slipped the surly bonds of earth; now if I can just land without bending the gear..."
"Watch out for those doves...<smack-smack-smack-smack...>"

[raulb]

Congratulations!

You may have been bored by your CFI studies, but the studying will not
end if you decide to take up soaring. Soaring is a never ending
education.

[Vaughn Simon]

"Don Byrer" > wrote in message
...
>
> I'm a 300-ish hour Commercial-SEL with aspirations of becoming a
> single engine CFI.

You know...the transition to commercial glider from Commercial-SEL is not
that hard, I have seen some hot-shots do it in a couple of weeks. It may be a
bit soon to be thinking about this, but what about getting your initial CFI
ticket in a glider? There are several advantages to doing it that way, and
CFI-G/Commercial tow pilots are often very much in demand.



Vaughn (CFI-G)

[BTIZ]

especially Commercial Tow Pilots that are tail wheel qualified and can CFI-G
also, and if you add an A&P or IA... almost any commercial glider operation
will want you. There are always ads in the SSA Magazine looking for Tow
Qualified CFI-G
BT

"Vaughn Simon" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Don Byrer" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> I'm a 300-ish hour Commercial-SEL with aspirations of becoming a
>> single engine CFI.
>
> You know...the transition to commercial glider from Commercial-SEL is
> not that hard, I have seen some hot-shots do it in a couple of weeks. It
> may be a bit soon to be thinking about this, but what about getting your
> initial CFI ticket in a glider? There are several advantages to doing
> it that way, and CFI-G/Commercial tow pilots are often very much in
> demand.
>
>
>
> Vaughn (CFI-G)
>

[John Naas]

Hi Don,

I'm so new that newbi makes me sound old. My brother and I just finished 16
of 25 flights in a glider flight training program with Tom Knauff and his
lovely wife, Doris Grove at Ridge Soaring Gliderport in Julian, PA ( Knauff
& Grove Soaring Supplies )). Their place, along with
some others, was highly recommended in this forum. I want to thank everyone
for steering me there!

I will be very happy to solo in 30 sessions (I'm 62 yrs old). It's
difficult to describe the experience because as they told me, flying isn't
like anything I've ever done. It's amazing to lean that the rudder doesn't
turn the glider, and neither does the elevator make it go or down! They
gave me lectures, books, and lessons and I still tried it my way.

The first four days were literally gut wrenching -- regularity wasn't a
problem for me at all. I seriously considered quitting every day except the
1st and the 5th. The 1st day I didn't have the sense to quit and the last
day, every thing seemed to come together in terms of completing no help tows
and minimal help landings. Interesting for me was to learn how much my
personality worked against me. If Doris had not stepped up (and I bet that
Tom encouraged her) to be my instructor, I don't believe that the 5th day
would have been successful. It's not that Tom Knauff or Mike, our other
instructors, weren't competent or supportive, my head just didn't work with
male instructors -- maybe my stick isn't long enough or something :-). The
lesson for me was that I was fortunate to go to a facility were there a
number of different instructors so that they could tailor my training, not
only to learning a new skill set, but also to help me overcome the
psychological baggage I was carrying with me. I believe that I would have
eventually succeeded with Tom and Mike; however, it would have taken much
longer and have been unnecessarily painful.

Another thing that worked against me was not memorizing the reading material
before, I arrived at Ridge Soaring. Tom told me, "Learn the material in the
chapter self-tests word for word." I learned it pretty well in my own
words. That wasn't good enough. The wrong words can kill you. There were
a number of flying situations where I had to verbally describe the process
as it occurred -- pre-flight check lists (There was plenty of time for the
written one, but we also had to memorize a general one.), early recognition
of impending stalls, stall recovery, and preceding through the landing
pattern its check list. If I didn't have it memorized cold, there just
wasn't time to say it with all my words or remember it while under all the
stress. My training was delayed until I learned the ideas and words cold.

I apologize to Tom and Doris because the above is probably filled with
errors; however, I'm a newbie now with lots of mistakes to be made,
corrected, and much more to learn.

John in Burke, VA., USA

"Don Byrer" > wrote in message
...
> Hi all...
>
> I've made a few misc posts here...but never asked what was really was
> on my mind...
>
> How (and where) the heck do I learn to fly gliders?
> (this doesn't seem to be discussed...usually topics for experienced
> pilots/owners)
>
> I'm a 300-ish hour Commercial-SEL with aspirations of becoming a
> single engine CFI.
> But, ya know what? All the studying is getting old, and I really
> wanna go DO something new...
> Especially something I can do for a reasonable price. No more
> financing my flying...ever!
>
> I've always felt my stick-n-rudder skills and power-off landings could
> be better, too.
>
> I found Fun Country Soaring here in NE OH at 67D, Reader-Botsford
> airport....About 40 mins SW of Cleveland.
> Finally had a day off and a few extra $$ last Sunday.
> Did two flights in an L-13. Aero-tow to 3000 AGL, CFI allowed me to
> fly the tow from 1000' both times,
> did OK the first time, got the line slack the second time and got
> yanked.
> He let me do the the full landing on the second trip. No lift, .3
> and .4 per flight, but still fun and educational!.
> (and still cheaper than a 172 at $125/hour)
>
> Hung out the whole day and got to watch a long-time student solo.
> His parents had come out to watch and were surprised that he
> soloed...plus...he found some lift and was up almost an hour with a 3K
> tow.
> Not bad for NE Ohio...
>
> I had a ball! Got a lot of sunburn too :)
>
> I even rescheduled a Doc appt during the week so I can go fly.
>
> How about hearing from some other newbies out there???
>
> Don Byrer KJ5KB
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Don Byrer KJ5KB
> Radar Tech & Smilin' Commercial Pilot Guy
> Glider student & CFI-SEL wannabe
> kj5kb-at-hotmail.com
>
> "I have slipped the surly bonds of earth; now if I can just land without
> bending the gear..."
> "Watch out for those doves...<smack-smack-smack-smack...>"

[Chuck Peterson]

"John Naas" > wrote in message
news:O23yg.67106$9c6.61249@dukeread11...
> Hi Don,
>
> I'm so new that newbi makes me sound old. My brother and I just finished
> 16 of 25 flights in a glider flight training program with Tom Knauff and
> his lovely wife, Doris Grove at Ridge Soaring Gliderport in Julian, PA (
> Knauff & Grove Soaring Supplies )).

<snip>

Great story..Its nice to see you younger folks out having fun ;-). My
passion for flight is long standing and at 67 I decided if not now, when. I
have been talking to folks in eastern PA and southern New Jersey and expect
to get started soon.

I'm curious what your reading list has in it. I figure I might try to get
at least a bit book smart before I start getting stick time. Your reference
to chapter self tests sounded good to me.

Best of luck in your venture, sounds like your having fun

Chuck

[John Naas]

Chuck, goog luck to you too. The reading list included:
1. Glider Basics: From First Fligth to Solo. Thomas Knauff. (This
is the main course book with selt-test questions and answers.)
2. Accident Prevention Manual for Glider Pilots. Thomas Knauff &
Doris Grove.
3. Federal Aviation Regualtions for Sailplane Pilots. Doris Grove

John in Burke, VA



"Chuck Peterson" <charles.petersonxxx@comcast(removethis and xxx).net> wrote
in message . ..
>
> "John Naas" > wrote in message
> news:O23yg.67106$9c6.61249@dukeread11...
>> Hi Don,
>>
>> I'm so new that newbi makes me sound old. My brother and I just finished
>> 16 of 25 flights in a glider flight training program with Tom Knauff and
>> his lovely wife, Doris Grove at Ridge Soaring Gliderport in Julian, PA
>> ( Knauff & Grove Soaring Supplies )).
>
> <snip>
>
> Great story..Its nice to see you younger folks out having fun ;-). My
> passion for flight is long standing and at 67 I decided if not now, when.
> I have been talking to folks in eastern PA and southern New Jersey and
> expect to get started soon.
>
> I'm curious what your reading list has in it. I figure I might try to get
> at least a bit book smart before I start getting stick time. Your
> reference to chapter self tests sounded good to me.
>
> Best of luck in your venture, sounds like your having fun
>
> Chuck
>
>
>

[Chuck Peterson]

Thanks John.. looks like a good starting point.

Chuck

"John Naas" > wrote in message
news:nJzyg.67206$9c6.26256@dukeread11...
> Chuck, goog luck to you too. The reading list included:
> 1. Glider Basics: From First Fligth to Solo. Thomas Knauff. (This
> is the main course book with selt-test questions and answers.)
> 2. Accident Prevention Manual for Glider Pilots. Thomas Knauff &
> Doris Grove.
> 3. Federal Aviation Regualtions for Sailplane Pilots. Doris Grove
>
> John in Burke, VA
>
>
>
> "Chuck Peterson" <charles.petersonxxx@comcast(removethis and xxx).net>
> wrote in message . ..
>>
>> "John Naas" > wrote in message
>> news:O23yg.67106$9c6.61249@dukeread11...
>>> Hi Don,
>>>
>>> I'm so new that newbi makes me sound old. My brother and I just
>>> finished 16 of 25 flights in a glider flight training program with Tom
>>> Knauff and his lovely wife, Doris Grove at Ridge Soaring Gliderport in
>>> Julian, PA ( Knauff & Grove Soaring Supplies )).
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>> Great story..Its nice to see you younger folks out having fun ;-). My
>> passion for flight is long standing and at 67 I decided if not now, when.
>> I have been talking to folks in eastern PA and southern New Jersey and
>> expect to get started soon.
>>
>> I'm curious what your reading list has in it. I figure I might try to
>> get at least a bit book smart before I start getting stick time. Your
>> reference to chapter self tests sounded good to me.
>>
>> Best of luck in your venture, sounds like your having fun
>>
>> Chuck
>>
>>
>>
>
>

[Tony Verhulst]

> 3. Federal Aviation Regualtions for Sailplane Pilots. Doris Grove

It must be just me but I've never understood to point of this book. Regs
change all the time and how often is it updated? Everything you need to
know, regulation wise, is online.
http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=c0b7e2156b8572ed75a6f03c75df6182&rgn=div5&view=text&node=14:2.0.1.1.2&idno=14
http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=c0b7e2156b8572ed75a6f03c75df6182&rgn=div5&view=text&node=14:2.0.1.3.10&idno=14

[Nyal Williams]

Tony,

Reading is a daunting task for some people; they are
intelligent, but their learning style is different.
This book selects only those items directly related
to gliding and eases the task of scanning through all
that other stuff; it looks less daunting than the whole
of the CFRs.


At 13:00 29 July 2006, Tony Verhulst wrote:
>
>> 3. Federal Aviation Regualtions for Sailplane
>>Pilots. Doris Grove
>
>It must be just me but I've never understood to point
>of this book. Regs
>change all the time and how often is it updated? Everything
>you need to
>know, regulation wise, is online.
>http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=c0b7e2156
>>b8572ed75a6f03c75df6182&rgn=div5&view=text&node=14:2.0.1.1.2&idno=
14
>http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=c0b7e2156
>>b8572ed75a6f03c75df6182&rgn=div5&view=text&node=14:2.0.1.3.10&idno
=14
>

[John Naas]

Re: Regs book.

I'm too new to have a knowledgeable opinion; however, as knowledge isn't a
prerequisite for opinions, I'll venture what I was told. The regs
compendium by Doris Grove includes the regs that apply to glider pilots -
excluding other regs. I think it's a book to make learning the regs easier,
and I'm a big supporter of easier if it works.

The intro of the book says, " Selected Federal Aviation Regulations (FAR's)
applying to sailplane pilots are reprinted in this book, and, to the best of
my knowledge, include all applicable amendments issued up to the time of
publication." Publishing date is 2004.

John in Burke, VA

"Tony Verhulst" > wrote in message
. ..
>
>> 3. Federal Aviation Regualtions for Sailplane Pilots. Doris Grove
>
> It must be just me but I've never understood to point of this book. Regs
> change all the time and how often is it updated? Everything you need to
> know, regulation wise, is online.
> http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=c0b7e2156b8572ed75a6f03c75df6182&rgn=div5&view=text&node=14:2.0.1.1.2&idno=14
> http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=c0b7e2156b8572ed75a6f03c75df6182&rgn=div5&view=text&node=14:2.0.1.3.10&idno=14

[John Naas]

In my reply to "Newbie glider pilot finally got chance to fly" on 7/27/06 at
9:18 a.m., I gave the wrong link to Knauff & Grove Soaring Suppiles.

It should be: http://www.eglider.org/.

My aoplogies to all. ...john wn in burke, va

[Don Byrer]

Hey...Thanks to all who replied
SORRY I didnt post sooner...

Have been up 5 times now; actually found some thermals under the
~4500' cloud base yesterday and we were out for an hour.
Brought it back out of courtesy...the L-13 is the highest 'in-demand'
for training/solos/new pilots/etc. Off at 3K, up to 4K, glide ~8
miles, find another thermal, back to 4K.

Tried boxing the wake, but it was rough and he said we'd try again
next time; dutch rolls to work on stick-n-rudder (which gets rusty
flying c172's); straight ahead stalls-no problem and slips on downwind
& base.

Near the IP at 2500 AGL...He wanted us on the correct heading and
direction back over the IP at 1200 AGL...."Use your judgement"
Got 'er there at 1250...good enough? :)

Thanks for the feedback...at the very least I will be getting Knauff's
"Transition to Gliders"; and I already have the glider flying manual
downloaded from the FAA... but I think I wil be wanting a print copy.

--Don Byrer
Don Byrer KJ5KB
Radar Tech & Smilin' Commercial Pilot Guy
Glider student & CFI-SEL wannabe
kj5kb-at-hotmail.com

"I have slipped the surly bonds of earth; now if I can just land without bending the gear..."
"Watch out for those doves...<smack-smack-smack-smack...>"