captain jepp

[Andrey Serbinenko]

Does anybody know why it so happened that there's literally
nobody else out there besides jepp in aeronautical charting
business? TERPS people develop the procedures, FAA test-flies
them, and all this info is publicly available. Yet, the only
commercial enterprise harvesting there is jepp. Between NACO and
them there's a substantial gap in terms of pricing and packaging
of services. Why is it empty?


Andrey

[Emily[_1_]]

Andrey Serbinenko wrote:
> Does anybody know why it so happened that there's literally
> nobody else out there besides jepp in aeronautical charting
> business? TERPS people develop the procedures, FAA test-flies
> them, and all this info is publicly available. Yet, the only
> commercial enterprise harvesting there is jepp. Between NACO and
> them there's a substantial gap in terms of pricing and packaging
> of services. Why is it empty?

Liability?

[Andrey Serbinenko]

well, liability doesn't stop people from, say, making new avionics,
and putting all this procedural info into its computers, which has
even more potential to cause damage if it has errors in it.

paper charts are still very much in use, and it seems strange that
nobody comes up with better ways of putting them together, or
making various "products" out of them for every possible pilot's
income tranche. everybody i know agrees that jepp is overpriced,
and you usually wind up buying more from them than you actually need,
because their products are structured that way.


Emily wrote:
> Andrey Serbinenko wrote:
>> Does anybody know why it so happened that there's literally
>> nobody else out there besides jepp in aeronautical charting
>> business? TERPS people develop the procedures, FAA test-flies
>> them, and all this info is publicly available. Yet, the only
>> commercial enterprise harvesting there is jepp. Between NACO and
>> them there's a substantial gap in terms of pricing and packaging
>> of services. Why is it empty?
>
> Liability?

[Jim Macklin]

And a very small market with high labor costs.




"Emily" > wrote in message
. ..
| Andrey Serbinenko wrote:
| > Does anybody know why it so happened that there's
literally
| > nobody else out there besides jepp in aeronautical
charting
| > business? TERPS people develop the procedures, FAA
test-flies
| > them, and all this info is publicly available. Yet, the
only
| > commercial enterprise harvesting there is jepp. Between
NACO and
| > them there's a substantial gap in terms of pricing and
packaging
| > of services. Why is it empty?
|
| Liability?

[John Gaquin]

"Andrey Serbinenko" > wrote in message

> Does anybody know why it so happened that there's literally
> nobody else out there besides jepp in aeronautical charting

Jeppesen started so early on (early 30s), and his little notebooks were so
relevant and to the point, that it didn't take much for the Jepps to become
the de facto industry standard, even after the government started publishing
their own charts. In almost 40 years I haven't met anyone, not 1, who
prefers the gov charts over Jepps.

All the data is public available, but I believe certain elements of
formatting and presentation are copyrighted. You could start publishing
your own chart service, I'm sure, but the tough part would be convincing
virtually every pilot and airline in the world to switch over to a different
format chart.

[Ray[_1_]]

Simply Put "tradition" it the reason behind eveything. Noone want to
move to something new, even if its better. There are some old time
pilots who don't even use GPS. I just think that pilots don't like
change. This is way Sporty, asa, gliem, and jepp are the only
manufactures that make it. Pilot are afriad to try something new. But
i do think that the new generation will be changing it.

[Peter Duniho]

"John Gaquin" > wrote in message
. ..
> [...]
> All the data is public available, but I believe certain elements of
> formatting and presentation are copyrighted. You could start publishing
> your own chart service, I'm sure, but the tough part would be convincing
> virtually every pilot and airline in the world to switch over to a
> different format chart.

It would be more than tough. It would be impossible. A person would
probably never do better than a niche competitor to Jeppesen, unless they
came up with some huge innovation that was so important, it made a
significant difference in the use of the charts. Even then, they won't come
close to "convincing virtually every" user.

But they don't need to. I don't see any reason someone couldn't carve out
that niche and make a decent living. If it can work for VFR (O'Keefe), why
not IFR?

Pete

[Matt Whiting]

Andrey Serbinenko wrote:

> Does anybody know why it so happened that there's literally
> nobody else out there besides jepp in aeronautical charting
> business? TERPS people develop the procedures, FAA test-flies
> them, and all this info is publicly available. Yet, the only
> commercial enterprise harvesting there is jepp. Between NACO and
> them there's a substantial gap in terms of pricing and packaging
> of services. Why is it empty?

First guess would be that there isn't enough money to be made to make it
worthwhile.

Matt

[Jim Macklin]

Right on!




"Matt Whiting" > wrote in message
...
| Andrey Serbinenko wrote:
|
| > Does anybody know why it so happened that there's
literally
| > nobody else out there besides jepp in aeronautical
charting
| > business? TERPS people develop the procedures, FAA
test-flies
| > them, and all this info is publicly available. Yet, the
only
| > commercial enterprise harvesting there is jepp. Between
NACO and
| > them there's a substantial gap in terms of pricing and
packaging
| > of services. Why is it empty?
|
| First guess would be that there isn't enough money to be
made to make it
| worthwhile.
|
| Matt

[Andrey Serbinenko]

> their own charts. In almost 40 years I haven't met anyone, not 1, who
> prefers the gov charts over Jepps.

What do the military pilots use?

> your own chart service, I'm sure, but the tough part would be convincing
> virtually every pilot and airline in the world to switch over to a different

I don't think you necessarily want to convince *everyone*, but there certainly
may be some niche for you. Doesn't it strike you as odd that there is just
one thing on the market and everybody is happy and would want nothing else?
Wouldn't it be strange if there were just one company making gps receivers,
and just one type of receiver, and everyone would be happy to have one and
not want to even think of anything else? Is it a bad comparison?

> format chart.
>
>

[John Gaquin]

"Andrey Serbinenko" > wrote in message

>> their own charts. In almost 40 years I haven't met anyone, not 1, who
>> prefers the gov charts over Jepps.
>
> What do the military pilots use?

I think military pilots are - or used to be - required to use the fed
charts. Still, I never met one who, after having an opportunity to use
Jepps, maintained a preference for the gov charts.

Most people I know found the government update system awkward, but it was
designed for a different kind of operation, where a pilot could go into Ops
and get a chart kit and know that it was invariably uniform and current. No
one had to go through the set and r/r individual sheets.

[Javier[_1_]]

John Gaquin wrote:
> "Andrey Serbinenko" > wrote in message
>
>> Does anybody know why it so happened that there's literally
>> nobody else out there besides jepp in aeronautical charting
>
> Jeppesen started so early on (early 30s), and his little notebooks were so
> relevant and to the point, that it didn't take much for the Jepps to become
> the de facto industry standard, even after the government started publishing
> their own charts. In almost 40 years I haven't met anyone, not 1, who
> prefers the gov charts over Jepps.

I like the FAA enroute charts better than Jepps', and the "new" (a few
years old by now) format on FAA approach plates is fine.

I will probably switch to FAA charts when my Jepps subscription expires
in a couple of months.

-jav

[B A R R Y[_1_]]

Andrey Serbinenko wrote:
> Does anybody know why it so happened that there's literally
> nobody else out there besides jepp in aeronautical charting
> business?

What about the plain old FAA published charts?

Isn't all the same data there, just in a different format?

[B A R R Y[_1_]]

John Gaquin wrote:
> "Andrey Serbinenko" > wrote in message
>
>>> their own charts. In almost 40 years I haven't met anyone, not 1, who
>>> prefers the gov charts over Jepps.
>> What do the military pilots use?
>
> I think military pilots are - or used to be - required to use the fed
> charts. Still, I never met one who, after having an opportunity to use
> Jepps, maintained a preference for the gov charts.

My co-owner likes the Jepp charts, but uses the FAA versions because he
has to pay for them himself.

[Ross Richardson[_1_]]

First I am not a hard IFR flyer. I started using Jepp because that is
what my instructor used. I had the SW, which is TX and the surrounding
states. That became a nightmare to update and most of the places I never
went to. I change to NOS charts after reading a IRF book by Rod Machado.
He explained IFR flying and compared the charts against each other. Each
have there good points and bad points. The differences were not that
great. I get a totally new book and can throw away the old. If I need
the additional territory, I just get that part. I now have North TX, OK
and AR.

Ross
KSWI

Javier wrote:

> John Gaquin wrote:
>
>> "Andrey Serbinenko" > wrote in message
>>
>>> Does anybody know why it so happened that there's literally
>>> nobody else out there besides jepp in aeronautical charting
>>
>>
>> Jeppesen started so early on (early 30s), and his little notebooks
>> were so relevant and to the point, that it didn't take much for the
>> Jepps to become the de facto industry standard, even after the
>> government started publishing their own charts. In almost 40 years I
>> haven't met anyone, not 1, who prefers the gov charts over Jepps.
>
>
> I like the FAA enroute charts better than Jepps', and the "new" (a few
> years old by now) format on FAA approach plates is fine.
>
> I will probably switch to FAA charts when my Jepps subscription expires
> in a couple of months.
>
> -jav

[Robert Barker]

"Andrey Serbinenko" > wrote in message
...
> Does anybody know why it so happened that there's literally
> nobody else out there besides jepp in aeronautical charting
> business? TERPS people develop the procedures, FAA test-flies
> them, and all this info is publicly available. Yet, the only
> commercial enterprise harvesting there is jepp. Between NACO and
> them there's a substantial gap in terms of pricing and packaging
> of services. Why is it empty?
>
>
> Andrey

70 years of collecting and publishing?

[John Gaquin]

"B A R R Y" > wrote in message news:IGOxg.75725.

>
> My co-owner likes the Jepp charts, but uses the FAA versions because he
> has to pay for them himself.

Are they still free?? :-)

[John Gaquin]

"Javier" > wrote in message
>
> I like the FAA enroute charts better than Jepps', and the "new" (a few
> years old by now) format on FAA approach plates is fine.

I haven't even looked at a gov chart in 35 years or more. Perhaps they've
made changes to become more competitive and easier to use.

[Jose[_1_]]

> I haven't even looked at a gov chart in 35 years or more. Perhaps they've
> made changes to become more competitive and easier to use.

They have. They are much better now.

Jose
--
The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the music.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[B A R R Y[_1_]]

John Gaquin wrote:
> "B A R R Y" > wrote in message news:IGOxg.75725.
>
>> My co-owner likes the Jepp charts, but uses the FAA versions because he
>> has to pay for them himself.
>
> Are they still free?? :-)
>
>

Online, yes. Cheap if printed for you.

[Grumman-581[_1_]]

On Thu, 27 Jul 2006 15:15:32 GMT, B A R R Y >
wrote:
> Online, yes. Cheap if printed for you.

The electronic media version (i.e. DVD data) is $12.50 per edition for
the entire US and $162.50 for an entire year's worth of editions (i.e.
13 editions)...

http://naco.faa.gov/ecomp/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductID=DTPP

[Ron Natalie]

Andrey Serbinenko wrote:
> Does anybody know why it so happened that there's literally
> nobody else out there besides jepp in aeronautical charting
> business? TERPS people develop the procedures, FAA test-flies
> them, and all this info is publicly available. Yet, the only
> commercial enterprise harvesting there is jepp. Between NACO and
> them there's a substantial gap in terms of pricing and packaging
> of services. Why is it empty?
>
>
Well, Howie Keefe's Air Chart Systems actually developed innovative
repackaging of the government charts in addition to some self-produced
charts I don't think they sell anymore.