TE Probe repairable?

[Bill Daniels]

I broke my TE probe at the fin socket. (Imagine cussing and dirt kicking)
After a bit more cussing, I managed to fish the broken end out of the fin
socket. (Of course, I did this AFTER assembling the Nimbus.)

The TE probe appears to have been a RU single function type with aluminum
two-hole tip, O-ring end that inserts into the 8mm fin socket and carbon
fiber tube between. The break was at one of the O-ring grooves. The probe
forward of the break is good. It seems possible that a new O-ring plug end
could be epoxied to the carbon tube.

Q's

Should I just buy a new probe?
Is there a source for the aluminum O-ring part to repair the broken probe?
Should I abandon the fin mounting altogether and consider converting to a
less vunerable fuselage probe over the wing?

Bill Daniels

[Tim Mara]

if it's an ESA probe I have replacement socket ends in stock.......
simply heat the old one (hot air gun.not direct flame!) and that should
loosen the epoxy glue and then epoxy the new end in it's place
tim
Wings & Wheels
www.wingsandwheels.com

"Bill Daniels" <bildan@comcast-dot-net> wrote in message
. ..
>I broke my TE probe at the fin socket. (Imagine cussing and dirt kicking)
>After a bit more cussing, I managed to fish the broken end out of the fin
>socket. (Of course, I did this AFTER assembling the Nimbus.)
>
> The TE probe appears to have been a RU single function type with aluminum
> two-hole tip, O-ring end that inserts into the 8mm fin socket and carbon
> fiber tube between. The break was at one of the O-ring grooves. The
> probe forward of the break is good. It seems possible that a new O-ring
> plug end could be epoxied to the carbon tube.
>
> Q's
>
> Should I just buy a new probe?
> Is there a source for the aluminum O-ring part to repair the broken
> probe?
> Should I abandon the fin mounting altogether and consider converting to a
> less vunerable fuselage probe over the wing?
>
> Bill Daniels
>

[bumper]

If you're near Minden, NV, I have a machine shop at my hangar and may be
able to fabricate the required part.

Note that this is a "walk-in" service only. It's free, so it's done on a
"when I have the time basis".

bumper

"Bill Daniels" <bildan@comcast-dot-net> wrote in message
. ..
>I broke my TE probe at the fin socket. (Imagine cussing and dirt kicking)
>After a bit more cussing, I managed to fish the broken end out of the fin
>socket. (Of course, I did this AFTER assembling the Nimbus.)
>
> The TE probe appears to have been a RU single function type with aluminum
> two-hole tip, O-ring end that inserts into the 8mm fin socket and carbon
> fiber tube between. The break was at one of the O-ring grooves. The
> probe forward of the break is good. It seems possible that a new O-ring
> plug end could be epoxied to the carbon tube.
>
> Q's
>
> Should I just buy a new probe?
> Is there a source for the aluminum O-ring part to repair the broken
> probe?
> Should I abandon the fin mounting altogether and consider converting to a
> less vunerable fuselage probe over the wing?
>
> Bill Daniels
>

[Bill Daniels]

Tim Mara ALWAYS comes through! Way to go Tim!

Bill Daniels

"Tim Mara" > wrote in message
...
> if it's an ESA probe I have replacement socket ends in stock.......
> simply heat the old one (hot air gun.not direct flame!) and that should
> loosen the epoxy glue and then epoxy the new end in it's place
> tim
> Wings & Wheels
> www.wingsandwheels.com
>
> "Bill Daniels" <bildan@comcast-dot-net> wrote in message
> . ..
>>I broke my TE probe at the fin socket. (Imagine cussing and dirt kicking)
>>After a bit more cussing, I managed to fish the broken end out of the fin
>>socket. (Of course, I did this AFTER assembling the Nimbus.)
>>
>> The TE probe appears to have been a RU single function type with aluminum
>> two-hole tip, O-ring end that inserts into the 8mm fin socket and carbon
>> fiber tube between. The break was at one of the O-ring grooves. The
>> probe forward of the break is good. It seems possible that a new O-ring
>> plug end could be epoxied to the carbon tube.
>>
>> Q's
>>
>> Should I just buy a new probe?
>> Is there a source for the aluminum O-ring part to repair the broken
>> probe?
>> Should I abandon the fin mounting altogether and consider converting to a
>> less vunerable fuselage probe over the wing?
>>
>> Bill Daniels
>>
>
>

[Tim Mara]

:o)
thanks
tim

"Bill Daniels" <bildan@comcast-dot-net> wrote in message
. ..
> Tim Mara ALWAYS comes through! Way to go Tim!
>
> Bill Daniels
>
> "Tim Mara" > wrote in message
> ...
>> if it's an ESA probe I have replacement socket ends in stock.......
>> simply heat the old one (hot air gun.not direct flame!) and that should
>> loosen the epoxy glue and then epoxy the new end in it's place
>> tim
>> Wings & Wheels
>> www.wingsandwheels.com
>>
>> "Bill Daniels" <bildan@comcast-dot-net> wrote in message
>> . ..
>>>I broke my TE probe at the fin socket. (Imagine cussing and dirt kicking)
>>>After a bit more cussing, I managed to fish the broken end out of the fin
>>>socket. (Of course, I did this AFTER assembling the Nimbus.)
>>>
>>> The TE probe appears to have been a RU single function type with
>>> aluminum two-hole tip, O-ring end that inserts into the 8mm fin socket
>>> and carbon fiber tube between. The break was at one of the O-ring
>>> grooves. The probe forward of the break is good. It seems possible
>>> that a new O-ring plug end could be epoxied to the carbon tube.
>>>
>>> Q's
>>>
>>> Should I just buy a new probe?
>>> Is there a source for the aluminum O-ring part to repair the broken
>>> probe?
>>> Should I abandon the fin mounting altogether and consider converting to
>>> a less vunerable fuselage probe over the wing?
>>>
>>> Bill Daniels
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

[Papa3]

Bill Daniels wrote:
> I broke my TE probe at the fin socket. (Imagine cussing and dirt kicking)
> After a bit more cussing, I managed to fish the broken end out of the fin
> socket. (Of course, I did this AFTER assembling the Nimbus.)
>
> The TE probe appears to have been a RU single function type with aluminum
> two-hole tip, O-ring end that inserts into the 8mm fin socket and carbon
> fiber tube between. The break was at one of the O-ring grooves. The probe
> forward of the break is good. It seems possible that a new O-ring plug end
> could be epoxied to the carbon tube.
>
> Q's
>
> Should I just buy a new probe?
> Is there a source for the aluminum O-ring part to repair the broken probe?
> Should I abandon the fin mounting altogether and consider converting to a
> less vunerable fuselage probe over the wing?
>
> Bill Daniels

Bill,

If I'm reading the post correctly, it sounds like the "simple" fix
would be to just have someone locally machine a new adapter.
Basically, cut off the entire o-ring adapter, then have someone turn a
new one. A simple piece of aluminum rod stock, drilled out ot the OD
of your carbon fiber tube on one end and turned to the 8mm ID with
appropriate o-ring grooves on the other end would be a quick job for
any machininist. Most glider clubs seem to have at least a couple "on
staff" :-))

FYI - the length of the fin tube isn't critical as long as it more or
less gets you out of influence of the empennage, so the only important
thing is that you get a good seal between the tube and the adapter and
the adapter and the fin...

FYI #2 - Having done exactly what you did once (extensive and creative
cussing included), I would definitely check to make sure the fin mount
itself wasn't damaged. You can leak test it by plugging the orifice at
the tail and presurizing from the front (not too much or you could pop
the tube right off). I actually split the mounting tube itself (a
simple piece of brass tubing), so I had to rig up a new one. This
involved fishing around in the vertical stab (more cussing and a few
minor flesh wounds) and epoxying in a whole new mounting tube.

P3

[Bill Daniels]

"Papa3" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> Bill Daniels wrote:
>> I broke my TE probe at the fin socket. (Imagine cussing and dirt kicking)
>> After a bit more cussing, I managed to fish the broken end out of the fin
>> socket. (Of course, I did this AFTER assembling the Nimbus.)
>>
>> The TE probe appears to have been a RU single function type with aluminum
>> two-hole tip, O-ring end that inserts into the 8mm fin socket and carbon
>> fiber tube between. The break was at one of the O-ring grooves. The
>> probe
>> forward of the break is good. It seems possible that a new O-ring plug
>> end
>> could be epoxied to the carbon tube.
>>
>> Q's
>>
>> Should I just buy a new probe?
>> Is there a source for the aluminum O-ring part to repair the broken
>> probe?
>> Should I abandon the fin mounting altogether and consider converting to a
>> less vunerable fuselage probe over the wing?
>>
>> Bill Daniels
>
> Bill,
>
> If I'm reading the post correctly, it sounds like the "simple" fix
> would be to just have someone locally machine a new adapter.
> Basically, cut off the entire o-ring adapter, then have someone turn a
> new one. A simple piece of aluminum rod stock, drilled out ot the OD
> of your carbon fiber tube on one end and turned to the 8mm ID with
> appropriate o-ring grooves on the other end would be a quick job for
> any machininist. Most glider clubs seem to have at least a couple "on
> staff" :-))
>
> FYI - the length of the fin tube isn't critical as long as it more or
> less gets you out of influence of the empennage, so the only important
> thing is that you get a good seal between the tube and the adapter and
> the adapter and the fin...
>
> FYI #2 - Having done exactly what you did once (extensive and creative
> cussing included), I would definitely check to make sure the fin mount
> itself wasn't damaged. You can leak test it by plugging the orifice at
> the tail and presurizing from the front (not too much or you could pop
> the tube right off). I actually split the mounting tube itself (a
> simple piece of brass tubing), so I had to rig up a new one. This
> involved fishing around in the vertical stab (more cussing and a few
> minor flesh wounds) and epoxying in a whole new mounting tube.
>
> P3
>

P3, Tim Mara at Wings and Wheels has the replacement part in stock along
with instructions for repairing the probe.

I agree that making a replacement aluminum part is a no-brainer if you have
access to a metal lathe. I keep seeing old manual lathes for sale cheap.
Maybe one day I will buy one.

Bill Daniels

[bumper]

"Bill Daniels" <bildan@comcast-dot-net> wrote in message
...

> I agree that making a replacement aluminum part is a no-brainer if you
> have access to a metal lathe. I keep seeing old manual lathes for sale
> cheap. Maybe one day I will buy one.
>
> Bill Daniels
>

Be forewarned!! Buying a lathe is like exposing yourself to a virus. Soon
you'll have a collection of tooling that makes the cost of the lathe pale in
comparison. Then, you'll need a mill - and tooling, a TIG welder and
supplies, and, and . . . Tool acquisition is a sickness . . . I know!

However, I've convinced my wife that tools are off-budget as far as toy
allocations are concerned.

all the best,

bumper

[Bob Gibbons]

Bill, I had te same thing happen to my ESA probe last year. Broke
right at one of the o-ring grooves. Upon inspection I could not
believe how thin the tube diameter was beneath the o-ring grooves.
They really need to thicken up the probe end socket wall thickness.

At any rate, since I was not aware Tim had replacement sockets, I cut
off a small section of thin wall brass tube that matched the inner ID
of the socket. I inserted this as an inner sleeve and expoxied this
inner sleeve in place to hold the broken socket together. I had to be
careful not to let the o-ring groove become filled with the epoxy. It
took several tries to get a leak proof joint, but it was not
difficult. As an added bonus in leak checking the repaired socket, I
discovered that both of the carbon tube joints futher (where the tube
reduces in diameter) out were leaking. Note: leak check was with the
usual pump bulb pressurization and soap bubble solution leak test.

End result was a fully functional and much stronger probe.

If I had to do it over again, knowing Tim has replacement sockets
available, I would probably go that route, but I would still insert a
strengthening brass sleeve into the inner diameter. The sleeve wall
thickness is just too thin for robust use.

Bob

On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 07:55:02 -0600, "Bill Daniels"
<bildan@comcast-dot-net> wrote:

>I broke my TE probe at the fin socket. (Imagine cussing and dirt kicking)
>After a bit more cussing, I managed to fish the broken end out of the fin
>socket. (Of course, I did this AFTER assembling the Nimbus.)
>
>The TE probe appears to have been a RU single function type with aluminum
>two-hole tip, O-ring end that inserts into the 8mm fin socket and carbon
>fiber tube between. The break was at one of the O-ring grooves. The probe
>forward of the break is good. It seems possible that a new O-ring plug end
>could be epoxied to the carbon tube.
>
>Q's
>
>Should I just buy a new probe?
>Is there a source for the aluminum O-ring part to repair the broken probe?
>Should I abandon the fin mounting altogether and consider converting to a
>less vunerable fuselage probe over the wing?
>
>Bill Daniels
>
>

[bumper]

If strengthening is what you're after, how about using thin-wall stainless
steel tubing for the reinforcement, rather than brass?

I agree, the no hassle fix is to buy a new one from Tim Mara. However, if
making a completely new end fitting on a lathe, I'd be tempted to make it
out of stainless.

Thin-wall and seamless stainless tubing is, like most other good things in
life, available from McMaster-Carr on-line.

bumper

"Bob Gibbons" > wrote in message
. ..
> Bill, I had te same thing happen to my ESA probe last year. Broke
> right at one of the o-ring grooves. Upon inspection I could not
> believe how thin the tube diameter was beneath the o-ring grooves.
> They really need to thicken up the probe end socket wall thickness.
>
> At any rate, since I was not aware Tim had replacement sockets, I cut
> off a small section of thin wall brass tube that matched the inner ID
> of the socket. I inserted this as an inner sleeve and expoxied this
> inner sleeve in place to hold the broken socket together. I had to be
> careful not to let the o-ring groove become filled with the epoxy. It
> took several tries to get a leak proof joint, but it was not
> difficult. As an added bonus in leak checking the repaired socket, I
> discovered that both of the carbon tube joints futher (where the tube
> reduces in diameter) out were leaking. Note: leak check was with the
> usual pump bulb pressurization and soap bubble solution leak test.
>
> End result was a fully functional and much stronger probe.
>
> If I had to do it over again, knowing Tim has replacement sockets
> available, I would probably go that route, but I would still insert a
> strengthening brass sleeve into the inner diameter. The sleeve wall
> thickness is just too thin for robust use.
>
> Bob
>
> On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 07:55:02 -0600, "Bill Daniels"
> <bildan@comcast-dot-net> wrote:
>
>>I broke my TE probe at the fin socket. (Imagine cussing and dirt kicking)
>>After a bit more cussing, I managed to fish the broken end out of the fin
>>socket. (Of course, I did this AFTER assembling the Nimbus.)
>>
>>The TE probe appears to have been a RU single function type with aluminum
>>two-hole tip, O-ring end that inserts into the 8mm fin socket and carbon
>>fiber tube between. The break was at one of the O-ring grooves. The
>>probe
>>forward of the break is good. It seems possible that a new O-ring plug
>>end
>>could be epoxied to the carbon tube.
>>
>>Q's
>>
>>Should I just buy a new probe?
>>Is there a source for the aluminum O-ring part to repair the broken
>>probe?
>>Should I abandon the fin mounting altogether and consider converting to a
>>less vunerable fuselage probe over the wing?
>>
>>Bill Daniels
>>
>>
>

[Bob Kuykendall]

Earlier, Bob Gibbons wrote:
>
> The sleeve wall thickness is just too thin for robust use.

That may well be so. However, consider that the part may have been
engineered (or at least developed) that way so as to protect the fin
socket. I'd rather replace the frangible aluminum probe plug than cut
open the fin and replace the probe socket any day!

I've got a lathe, and making a replacement aluminum plug was my very
first thought. I try to buy as few glider parts as possible, and when I
do I try to buy as many at a time as I can to get volume discouts. But
if Tim has a thing like that in stock, he'd be my first call. Business
is definitely business.

Bob K.

[Bill Daniels]

"Bob Kuykendall" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Earlier, Bob Gibbons wrote:
>>
>> The sleeve wall thickness is just too thin for robust use.
>
> That may well be so. However, consider that the part may have been
> engineered (or at least developed) that way so as to protect the fin
> socket. I'd rather replace the frangible aluminum probe plug than cut
> open the fin and replace the probe socket any day!
>
> I've got a lathe, and making a replacement aluminum plug was my very
> first thought. I try to buy as few glider parts as possible, and when I
> do I try to buy as many at a time as I can to get volume discouts. But
> if Tim has a thing like that in stock, he'd be my first call. Business
> is definitely business.
>
> Bob K.
>

Bob, I'm sure the O-ring groove was not intended as a 'breakaway' point to
protect the fin socket. The O-ring seats far enough into the socket that
something else would give first - probably the carbon fiber tube part of the
probe.

Bill Daniels

[Papa3]

bumper wrote:
>
> Thin-wall and seamless stainless tubing is, like most other good things in
> life, available from McMaster-Carr on-line.
>
> bumper
>

How true. I think it would be fun to see if we could create the entire
Bill Of Materials for scratch-built high performance glider from the
McMaster-Carr website. Living not too far away, have had a chance to
stop by on a couple of occasions. The place is like a toy store for
big kids.

P3

[bumper]

If I had 1/1000th the money of Bill Gates, I'd call 'em and say, "Send me
one of everything, please!"

Is their brick and mortar set up for walk-in shopping??

bumper


"Papa3" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> bumper wrote:
>>
>> Thin-wall and seamless stainless tubing is, like most other good things
>> in
>> life, available from McMaster-Carr on-line.
>>
>> bumper
>>
>
> How true. I think it would be fun to see if we could create the entire
> Bill Of Materials for scratch-built high performance glider from the
> McMaster-Carr website. Living not too far away, have had a chance to
> stop by on a couple of occasions. The place is like a toy store for
> big kids.
>
> P3
>

[Bill Daniels]

The new aluminum probe end arrived in the mail a few days after I called
Tim. It took me a few days to find the time to remove the old broken one
and epoxy the new one in its place.

Tim Mara's instructions were to heat the broken part with a hot air gun
until the epoxy holding it onto the carbon fiber tube softened allowing it
to be removed. I confess I was a little doubtful about this but it went
exactly as Tim said. Needle nose pliers pulled the hot broken part off
after about five minutes of heating. The new part slipped perfectly over
the old tube. As soon as the epoxy cures, the probe will be better than
new.

Bill Daniels