argh - muzak on wxbrief

[Bob Noel]

ohmygawd - is it just bridgeport FSS or has some idiot
decided to inflict horrible noise on pilots on hold at every
FSS?

The cynic in me says "they" are trying to move people
away from live briefers.

--
Bob Noel
Looking for a sig the
lawyers will hate

[gerald musselman]

Obviously, spoken by a true 60's rock only type.


On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 10:13:25 -0400, Bob Noel
> wrote:

>ohmygawd - is it just bridgeport FSS or has some idiot
>decided to inflict horrible noise on pilots on hold at every
>FSS?
>
>The cynic in me says "they" are trying to move people
>away from live briefers.

[Stubby]

It's not only them. I just tangled with a half dozen Sears numbers and
really wanted to point out to them that on-hold music prevents people in
cubicles from putting them on speaker phone while waiting for them to
pick up. They also need to know that everyone doesn't like the same
music they do.


Bob Noel wrote:
> ohmygawd - is it just bridgeport FSS or has some idiot
> decided to inflict horrible noise on pilots on hold at every
> FSS?
>
> The cynic in me says "they" are trying to move people
> away from live briefers.
>

[Bob Noel]

In article >,
gerald musselman > wrote:

> Obviously, spoken by a true 60's rock only type.

blech - you don't know me at all....

--
Bob Noel
Looking for a sig the
lawyers will hate

[Emily[_1_]]

Bob Noel wrote:
> ohmygawd - is it just bridgeport FSS or has some idiot
> decided to inflict horrible noise on pilots on hold at every
> FSS?

I've never heard it at mine...but then again, I don't think I've ever
really been on hold.

[Larry Dighera]

On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 10:13:25 -0400, Bob Noel
> wrote in
>::

>ohmygawd - is it just bridgeport FSS or has some idiot
>decided to inflict horrible noise on pilots on hold at every
>FSS?


Wouldn't it be more productive to listen to the area weather synopsis
(or other topical information) while you're waiting? Perhaps LocMart
would implement a policy change. Who knows?

Suggestion Box:

[Bob Noel]

In article >,
Larry Dighera > wrote:

> Wouldn't it be more productive to listen to the area weather synopsis
> (or other topical information) while you're waiting?

That's what used to be played while on hold.

But this muzakcrap must be better since it's from locmart, right?

--
Bob Noel
Looking for a sig the
lawyers will hate

[BTIZ]

Attempted contact with Cedar City UT AFSS failed today... twice..
dialed 1800wxbrief, got the ugly repeats of the "changes" to the security
NOTAMs, and then select option to talk to a briefer.. after 10 rings the
system disconnected...
same problem on reattempt... so much for checking (updating) FIRE TFRs..

BT

"Bob Noel" > wrote in message
...
> ohmygawd - is it just bridgeport FSS or has some idiot
> decided to inflict horrible noise on pilots on hold at every
> FSS?
>
> The cynic in me says "they" are trying to move people
> away from live briefers.
>
> --
> Bob Noel
> Looking for a sig the
> lawyers will hate
>

[Jose[_1_]]

> Wouldn't it be more productive to listen to the area weather synopsis
> (or other topical information) while you're waiting?

No.

The area being read to me by a machine is probably not the one I'm
interested in, I'm going to get the same information in a moment (or
spend an equal amount of time saying "no thanks, the ancient recording
is sufficient, no need to give me the area forecast for {insert list of
areas}, and more than likely, if I'm on hold, I want to put the call on
speakerphone so I can be productive by doing what =I= want to do, rather
than what a machine is telling me to listen to.

Jose
--
The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the music.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Larry Dighera]

On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 21:49:44 -0400, Bob Noel
> wrote in
>::

>
>But this muzakcrap must be better since it's from locmart, right?

Perhaps it's just part of the new phone system (presuming there is
one), and the old system didn't get transferred over (yet?).

[Larry Dighera]

On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 18:53:32 -0700, "BTIZ" >
wrote in <riUyg.16617$6w.9894@fed1read11>::

>Attempted contact with Cedar City UT AFSS failed today... twice..
>dialed 1800wxbrief, got the ugly repeats of the "changes" to the security
>NOTAMs, and then select option to talk to a briefer.. after 10 rings the
>system disconnected...
>same problem on reattempt... so much for checking (updating) FIRE TFRs..


Well, you're not going to be able to complain about long telephone
hold times now that LocMart is on the job. :-(

[Larry Dighera]

On Sun, 30 Jul 2006 02:02:32 GMT, Jose >
wrote in >::

>> Wouldn't it be more productive to listen to the area weather synopsis
>> (or other topical information) while you're waiting?
>
>No.
>
>The area being read to me by a machine is probably not the one I'm
>interested in, I'm going to get the same information in a moment (or
>spend an equal amount of time saying "no thanks, the ancient recording
>is sufficient, no need to give me the area forecast for {insert list of
>areas}, and more than likely, if I'm on hold, I want to put the call on
>speakerphone so I can be productive by doing what =I= want to do, rather
>than what a machine is telling me to listen to.

So, if I read you correctly, you would prefer silence to music or
information?

[Jose[_1_]]

> So, if I read you correctly, you would prefer silence to music or
> information?

Yes. An occasional beep to assure me that I'm still connected would be
nice, and an OPTIONAL "press 5 to listen to [whatever] while holding,
you won't lose your place" would be ok if stated ONCE ONLY at the
beginning of the hold.

Otherwise, I wish all holds were silent.

Jose
--
The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the music.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Larry Dighera]

On Sun, 30 Jul 2006 02:33:14 GMT, Jose >
wrote in >::

>An occasional beep to assure me that I'm still connected would be
>nice, and an OPTIONAL "press 5 to listen to [whatever] while holding, ...

That sound like a reasonable solution. I wonder what it would take to
implement it?

[Jose[_1_]]

>>An occasional beep to assure me that I'm still connected would be
>>nice, and an OPTIONAL "press 5 to listen to [whatever] while holding, ...
> That sound like a reasonable solution. I wonder what it would take to
> implement it?

A decision maker who cared.

Perhaps I'm too cynical, but I've been on hold for more hours than I've
been flying. I suppose feedback on their web site would test whether or
not such input is really welcome. They did ask for feedback.

Jose
--
The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the music.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Dice]

Let me guess: you're voting for DeStephano, Farrell and Lamont, right?

"Bob Noel" > wrote in message
...
> ohmygawd - is it just bridgeport FSS or has some idiot
> decided to inflict horrible noise on pilots on hold at every
> FSS?
>
> The cynic in me says "they" are trying to move people
> away from live briefers.
>
> --
> Bob Noel
> Looking for a sig the
> lawyers will hate
>

[Bob Noel]

In article >,
"Dice" > wrote:

> Let me guess: you're voting for DeStephano, Farrell and Lamont, right?

what the heck are you talking about?

--
Bob Noel
Looking for a sig the
lawyers will hate

[.Blueskies.]

"Larry Dighera" > wrote in message ...
: On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 18:53:32 -0700, "BTIZ" >
: wrote in <riUyg.16617$6w.9894@fed1read11>::
:
: >Attempted contact with Cedar City UT AFSS failed today... twice..
: >dialed 1800wxbrief, got the ugly repeats of the "changes" to the security
: >NOTAMs, and then select option to talk to a briefer.. after 10 rings the
: >system disconnected...
: >same problem on reattempt... so much for checking (updating) FIRE TFRs..
:
:
: Well, you're not going to be able to complain about long telephone
: hold times now that LocMart is on the job. :-(
:


Don't know if that is true, but if you can get on here to complain, then you can also get here:
http://www.afss.com/feedback/

[Larry Dighera]

On Sun, 30 Jul 2006 11:58:05 GMT, ".Blueskies."
> wrote in
>::

>
>"Larry Dighera" > wrote in message ...
>: On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 18:53:32 -0700, "BTIZ" >
>: wrote in <riUyg.16617$6w.9894@fed1read11>::
>:
>: >Attempted contact with Cedar City UT AFSS failed today... twice..
>: >dialed 1800wxbrief, got the ugly repeats of the "changes" to the security
>: >NOTAMs, and then select option to talk to a briefer.. after 10 rings the
>: >system disconnected...
>: >same problem on reattempt... so much for checking (updating) FIRE TFRs..
>:
>:
>: Well, you're not going to be able to complain about long telephone
>: hold times now that LocMart is on the job. :-(
>:
>
>Don't know if that is true,

Given:

-------------------------------------------------------------------
AVwebFlash Volume 12, Number 26b -- June 29, 2006
-------------------------------------------------------------------

AOPA LISTS PERFORMANCE PARAMETERS
(http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/667-full.html#192587)
When Lockheed took over the system, the company set its
performance standards high. AOPA this week provided details
(http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/newsitems/2006/060623afss.html) of
what kind of service you should be getting -- and said if you're
not getting it, you should report that via the feedback form on
the new Web portal. (After all, you paid for it.) According to
AOPA, the AFSS should answer your phone call within 20 seconds and
radio calls within 5 seconds. You must receive service from your
radio call within 15 seconds. PIREPs must be processed within 30
seconds and within 15 seconds if they are urgent. Briefers must
have knowledge of the unique weather conditions in your area.
Briefers must meet those standards whether it is a busy, clear
summer day or a slow, dreary day in winter, AOPA says.
http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/667-full.html#192587
and, BTIZ' complaint: "after 10 rings the system disconnected," it's
becoming clear how a large corporation meets its 20-second maximum
phone hold time contractual obligation; just disconnect the phone line
before 20 seconds have elapsed.

And our government is none the wiser:

http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/ato/aca/
Office of Competitive Sourcing
The Office of Competitive Sourcing conducts competitive sourcing
acquisitions on those commercial activities identified by the
agency for study. Our rigorous and disciplined approach considers
all stakeholders, what services to provide, and the safety and
security of the National Airspace System (NAS).

Through innovative competitive sourcing solutions the Office of
Competitive Sourcing ensures the FAA’s delivery of efficient and
effective services to end-users. The office carries out these
activities under the guidelines of OMB Circular A-76 and the FAA’s
Acquisition Management System (AMS).

AFSS A-76 Competition

And If you like the way large corporations serve the public, you're
going to love privatized ATC. :-(


>but if you can get on here to complain, then you can also get here:
>http://www.afss.com/feedback/
>

Thank you for the link. However, considering that it is the FSS
contractor who will see your complaint, not an organization with
oversight responsibilities like the FAA nor AOPA, it might be better
directed here:

If you use FSS services, tell us about it by taking our survey on
AOPA Online:
http://surveys.aopa.org/cgi-bin/qwebcorporate.cgi?idx=SP46SS


LOCKHEED MARTIN FLIGHT SERVICE WEB SITE GOES LIVE
Are you put on hold for several minutes when you call
800/WX-BRIEF? You shouldn't be. Are you getting detailed security
and weather briefings when you call? You should be. That's part of
Lockheed Martin's promise to pilots while it is modernizing the
FSS system, which it took over from the FAA on October 4 last
year. If those promises aren't being kept, you now have a way
to report service difficulties to Lockheed Martin--through its new
Web site ( http://www.afss.com ). The site provides pilots with a
means to report any difficulties they experience with flight
service, along with updates on the progress of the modernization,
known as FS21, and information for flight planning. "From the
beginning, AOPA demanded performance standards to hold Lockheed
Martin accountable for the commitments they made to serve pilots,"
said Melissa Rudinger, AOPA vice president of regulatory affairs.
"We want to make sure the modernization is done right, and this
Web site allows pilots to report what services are and aren't
working for them." See AOPA Online
( http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/newsitems/2006/060623afss.html ).




NEXT FOR LOCKHEED, THE NATIONAL AIRSPACE SYSTEM?
(http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/667-full.html#192588)
If Lockheed Martin proves successful with the AFSS transition,
will the airspace system be next? The company recently teamed up
with Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University to create the "Airport
of the Future (http://erau.edu/research/erau_research_park.html),"
a technology test bed at Daytona Beach International Airport. This
"teaching airport" will demonstrate how to provide more
comprehensive data to air traffic controllers, airport operators,
security officials and airline dispatchers. "We believe that a
strong transportation infrastructure is critical to our nation's
economic well-being and our citizens' way of life," Judy Marks,
president of Lockheed Martin Transportation and Security
Solutions, said last week

(http://sev.prnewswire.com/aerospace-defense/20060623/DCF04323062006-1.html)
at a briefing of the National Press Club in Washington, D.C.
http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/667-full.html#192588

[Stubby]

The choir is assembled and we get the message. But this group is the
wrong one to achieve a change. Bob Noel: please draft a message to the
manager of the Bridgeport FSS. All of us who agree with it will send a
message to you and you can add the names as signers to the letter.


Bob Noel wrote:
> ohmygawd - is it just bridgeport FSS or has some idiot
> decided to inflict horrible noise on pilots on hold at every
> FSS?
>
> The cynic in me says "they" are trying to move people
> away from live briefers.
>

[BTIZ]

thanx for the feed back.. I was searching AOPA for that link to complain.. I
had visited the Cedar City AFSS shortly after the takeover and spoke with a
few that were there, most where with FAA long enough to retire and take the
LocMar contracting position..

BT

"Larry Dighera" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 30 Jul 2006 11:58:05 GMT, ".Blueskies."
> > wrote in
> >::
>
>>
>>"Larry Dighera" > wrote in message
...
>>: On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 18:53:32 -0700, "BTIZ" >
>>: wrote in <riUyg.16617$6w.9894@fed1read11>::
>>:
>>: >Attempted contact with Cedar City UT AFSS failed today... twice..
>>: >dialed 1800wxbrief, got the ugly repeats of the "changes" to the
>>security
>>: >NOTAMs, and then select option to talk to a briefer.. after 10 rings
>>the
>>: >system disconnected...
>>: >same problem on reattempt... so much for checking (updating) FIRE
>>TFRs..
>>:
>>:
>>: Well, you're not going to be able to complain about long telephone
>>: hold times now that LocMart is on the job. :-(
>>:
>>
>>Don't know if that is true,
>
> Given:
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> AVwebFlash Volume 12, Number 26b -- June 29, 2006
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> AOPA LISTS PERFORMANCE PARAMETERS
> (http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/667-full.html#192587)
> When Lockheed took over the system, the company set its
> performance standards high. AOPA this week provided details
> (http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/newsitems/2006/060623afss.html) of
> what kind of service you should be getting -- and said if you're
> not getting it, you should report that via the feedback form on
> the new Web portal. (After all, you paid for it.) According to
> AOPA, the AFSS should answer your phone call within 20 seconds and
> radio calls within 5 seconds. You must receive service from your
> radio call within 15 seconds. PIREPs must be processed within 30
> seconds and within 15 seconds if they are urgent. Briefers must
> have knowledge of the unique weather conditions in your area.
> Briefers must meet those standards whether it is a busy, clear
> summer day or a slow, dreary day in winter, AOPA says.
> http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/667-full.html#192587
> and, BTIZ' complaint: "after 10 rings the system disconnected," it's
> becoming clear how a large corporation meets its 20-second maximum
> phone hold time contractual obligation; just disconnect the phone line
> before 20 seconds have elapsed.
>
> And our government is none the wiser:
>
> http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/ato/aca/
> Office of Competitive Sourcing
> The Office of Competitive Sourcing conducts competitive sourcing
> acquisitions on those commercial activities identified by the
> agency for study. Our rigorous and disciplined approach considers
> all stakeholders, what services to provide, and the safety and
> security of the National Airspace System (NAS).
>
> Through innovative competitive sourcing solutions the Office of
> Competitive Sourcing ensures the FAA's delivery of efficient and
> effective services to end-users. The office carries out these
> activities under the guidelines of OMB Circular A-76 and the FAA's
> Acquisition Management System (AMS).
>
> AFSS A-76 Competition
>
> And If you like the way large corporations serve the public, you're
> going to love privatized ATC. :-(
>
>
>>but if you can get on here to complain, then you can also get here:
>>http://www.afss.com/feedback/
>>
>
> Thank you for the link. However, considering that it is the FSS
> contractor who will see your complaint, not an organization with
> oversight responsibilities like the FAA nor AOPA, it might be better
> directed here:
>
> If you use FSS services, tell us about it by taking our survey on
> AOPA Online:
> http://surveys.aopa.org/cgi-bin/qwebcorporate.cgi?idx=SP46SS
>
>
> LOCKHEED MARTIN FLIGHT SERVICE WEB SITE GOES LIVE
> Are you put on hold for several minutes when you call
> 800/WX-BRIEF? You shouldn't be. Are you getting detailed security
> and weather briefings when you call? You should be. That's part of
> Lockheed Martin's promise to pilots while it is modernizing the
> FSS system, which it took over from the FAA on October 4 last
> year. If those promises aren't being kept, you now have a way
> to report service difficulties to Lockheed Martin--through its new
> Web site ( http://www.afss.com ). The site provides pilots with a
> means to report any difficulties they experience with flight
> service, along with updates on the progress of the modernization,
> known as FS21, and information for flight planning. "From the
> beginning, AOPA demanded performance standards to hold Lockheed
> Martin accountable for the commitments they made to serve pilots,"
> said Melissa Rudinger, AOPA vice president of regulatory affairs.
> "We want to make sure the modernization is done right, and this
> Web site allows pilots to report what services are and aren't
> working for them." See AOPA Online
> ( http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/newsitems/2006/060623afss.html ).
>
>
>
>
> NEXT FOR LOCKHEED, THE NATIONAL AIRSPACE SYSTEM?
> (http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/667-full.html#192588)
> If Lockheed Martin proves successful with the AFSS transition,
> will the airspace system be next? The company recently teamed up
> with Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University to create the "Airport
> of the Future (http://erau.edu/research/erau_research_park.html),"
> a technology test bed at Daytona Beach International Airport. This
> "teaching airport" will demonstrate how to provide more
> comprehensive data to air traffic controllers, airport operators,
> security officials and airline dispatchers. "We believe that a
> strong transportation infrastructure is critical to our nation's
> economic well-being and our citizens' way of life," Judy Marks,
> president of Lockheed Martin Transportation and Security
> Solutions, said last week
>
> (http://sev.prnewswire.com/aerospace-defense/20060623/DCF04323062006-1.html)
> at a briefing of the National Press Club in Washington, D.C.
> http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/667-full.html#192588

[john smith]

In article <riUyg.16617$6w.9894@fed1read11>,
"BTIZ" > wrote:

> Attempted contact with Cedar City UT AFSS failed today... twice..
> dialed 1800wxbrief, got the ugly repeats of the "changes" to the security
> NOTAMs, and then select option to talk to a briefer.. after 10 rings the
> system disconnected...
> same problem on reattempt... so much for checking (updating) FIRE TFRs..

Send AOPA an email letting them know. They want to know and tally the
problems so they can get them resolved.

[john smith]

In article >,
Larry Dighera > wrote:

> According to
> AOPA, the AFSS should answer your phone call within 20 seconds and
> radio calls within 5 seconds. You must receive service from your
> radio call within 15 seconds. PIREPs must be processed within 30
> seconds and within 15 seconds if they are urgent.

Well, I should probably report Terra Haute FSS for not answering my
radio call in a timely manner. I tried one frequency for a minute, then
switched to another and had to unsquelch the circuit to hear them.

[Emily[_1_]]

john smith wrote:
> In article >,
> Larry Dighera > wrote:
>
>> According to
>> AOPA, the AFSS should answer your phone call within 20 seconds and
>> radio calls within 5 seconds. You must receive service from your
>> radio call within 15 seconds. PIREPs must be processed within 30
>> seconds and within 15 seconds if they are urgent.
>
> Well, I should probably report Terra Haute FSS for not answering my
> radio call in a timely manner. I tried one frequency for a minute, then
> switched to another and had to unsquelch the circuit to hear them.

Terre Haute is great on the phone, but leaves a lot to be desired on the
radio...or so it was when I was flying up there. I remember asking
center for things that I really should have gone to FSS for...center
would tell me to contact FSS, and once, when I was NOT willing to swap
frequencies in IMC just to get a weather update from FSS, I flat out
told Indy Center that I didn't have time to wait for Terre Haute to
reply to me. Controller didn't sound surprised, lol.

But, like I said, they were nothing but fast and polite on the phone.
Especially compared to Kankakee. Ugh.

[john smith]

In article >,
Emily > wrote:

> But, like I said, they were nothing but fast and polite on the phone.

I agree. When I stopped in Wabash to wait out weather, the briefer on
the phone had local knowledge of the weather patterns that was
invaluable.

[BTIZ]

Your comments are appreciated and we encourage you to use the feedback
function often. For complaints, we are working toward a 10-business-day
response time to address your comments.

If you haven't already taken a survey, you may do so by clicking on any
available survey link(s) shown in the right sidebar.

you guys did not tell me I'd have to log in to make a complaint...
and is it a problem if the Lockheed people are taking the complaints..
the gov't contract manager will never see the complaint.

and there was no survery to take

BT

"BTIZ" > wrote in message
news:a55zg.16649$6w.6212@fed1read11...
> thanx for the feed back.. I was searching AOPA for that link to complain..
> I had visited the Cedar City AFSS shortly after the takeover and spoke
> with a few that were there, most where with FAA long enough to retire and
> take the LocMar contracting position..
>
> BT
>
> "Larry Dighera" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Sun, 30 Jul 2006 11:58:05 GMT, ".Blueskies."
>> > wrote in
>> >::
>>
>>>
>>>"Larry Dighera" > wrote in message
...
>>>: On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 18:53:32 -0700, "BTIZ" >
>>>: wrote in <riUyg.16617$6w.9894@fed1read11>::
>>>:
>>>: >Attempted contact with Cedar City UT AFSS failed today... twice..
>>>: >dialed 1800wxbrief, got the ugly repeats of the "changes" to the
>>>security
>>>: >NOTAMs, and then select option to talk to a briefer.. after 10 rings
>>>the
>>>: >system disconnected...
>>>: >same problem on reattempt... so much for checking (updating) FIRE
>>>TFRs..
>>>:
>>>:
>>>: Well, you're not going to be able to complain about long telephone
>>>: hold times now that LocMart is on the job. :-(
>>>:
>>>
>>>Don't know if that is true,
>>
>> Given:
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>> AVwebFlash Volume 12, Number 26b -- June 29, 2006
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> AOPA LISTS PERFORMANCE PARAMETERS
>> (http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/667-full.html#192587)
>> When Lockheed took over the system, the company set its
>> performance standards high. AOPA this week provided details
>> (http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/newsitems/2006/060623afss.html) of
>> what kind of service you should be getting -- and said if you're
>> not getting it, you should report that via the feedback form on
>> the new Web portal. (After all, you paid for it.) According to
>> AOPA, the AFSS should answer your phone call within 20 seconds and
>> radio calls within 5 seconds. You must receive service from your
>> radio call within 15 seconds. PIREPs must be processed within 30
>> seconds and within 15 seconds if they are urgent. Briefers must
>> have knowledge of the unique weather conditions in your area.
>> Briefers must meet those standards whether it is a busy, clear
>> summer day or a slow, dreary day in winter, AOPA says.
>> http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/667-full.html#192587
>> and, BTIZ' complaint: "after 10 rings the system disconnected," it's
>> becoming clear how a large corporation meets its 20-second maximum
>> phone hold time contractual obligation; just disconnect the phone line
>> before 20 seconds have elapsed.
>>
>> And our government is none the wiser:
>>
>> http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/ato/aca/
>> Office of Competitive Sourcing
>> The Office of Competitive Sourcing conducts competitive sourcing
>> acquisitions on those commercial activities identified by the
>> agency for study. Our rigorous and disciplined approach considers
>> all stakeholders, what services to provide, and the safety and
>> security of the National Airspace System (NAS).
>>
>> Through innovative competitive sourcing solutions the Office of
>> Competitive Sourcing ensures the FAA's delivery of efficient and
>> effective services to end-users. The office carries out these
>> activities under the guidelines of OMB Circular A-76 and the FAA's
>> Acquisition Management System (AMS).
>>
>> AFSS A-76 Competition
>>
>> And If you like the way large corporations serve the public, you're
>> going to love privatized ATC. :-(
>>
>>
>>>but if you can get on here to complain, then you can also get here:
>>>http://www.afss.com/feedback/
>>>
>>
>> Thank you for the link. However, considering that it is the FSS
>> contractor who will see your complaint, not an organization with
>> oversight responsibilities like the FAA nor AOPA, it might be better
>> directed here:
>>
>> If you use FSS services, tell us about it by taking our survey on
>> AOPA Online:
>> http://surveys.aopa.org/cgi-bin/qwebcorporate.cgi?idx=SP46SS
>>
>>
>> LOCKHEED MARTIN FLIGHT SERVICE WEB SITE GOES LIVE
>> Are you put on hold for several minutes when you call
>> 800/WX-BRIEF? You shouldn't be. Are you getting detailed security
>> and weather briefings when you call? You should be. That's part of
>> Lockheed Martin's promise to pilots while it is modernizing the
>> FSS system, which it took over from the FAA on October 4 last
>> year. If those promises aren't being kept, you now have a way
>> to report service difficulties to Lockheed Martin--through its new
>> Web site ( http://www.afss.com ). The site provides pilots with a
>> means to report any difficulties they experience with flight
>> service, along with updates on the progress of the modernization,
>> known as FS21, and information for flight planning. "From the
>> beginning, AOPA demanded performance standards to hold Lockheed
>> Martin accountable for the commitments they made to serve pilots,"
>> said Melissa Rudinger, AOPA vice president of regulatory affairs.
>> "We want to make sure the modernization is done right, and this
>> Web site allows pilots to report what services are and aren't
>> working for them." See AOPA Online
>> ( http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/newsitems/2006/060623afss.html ).
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> NEXT FOR LOCKHEED, THE NATIONAL AIRSPACE SYSTEM?
>> (http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/667-full.html#192588)
>> If Lockheed Martin proves successful with the AFSS transition,
>> will the airspace system be next? The company recently teamed up
>> with Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University to create the "Airport
>> of the Future (http://erau.edu/research/erau_research_park.html),"
>> a technology test bed at Daytona Beach International Airport. This
>> "teaching airport" will demonstrate how to provide more
>> comprehensive data to air traffic controllers, airport operators,
>> security officials and airline dispatchers. "We believe that a
>> strong transportation infrastructure is critical to our nation's
>> economic well-being and our citizens' way of life," Judy Marks,
>> president of Lockheed Martin Transportation and Security
>> Solutions, said last week
>>
>> (http://sev.prnewswire.com/aerospace-defense/20060623/DCF04323062006-1.html)
>> at a briefing of the National Press Club in Washington, D.C.
>> http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/667-full.html#192588
>
>

[Larry Dighera]

On Sun, 30 Jul 2006 21:23:05 -0700, "BTIZ" >
wrote in <JAfzg.16746$6w.4291@fed1read11>::


>you guys did not tell me I'd have to log in to make a complaint...

How else are they going to keep the spam from filling their in box?

>and is it a problem if the Lockheed people are taking the complaints..

If LocMart is intentionally disconnecting the telephone line, so their
hold time will not exceed their maximum under their contract, I
wouldn't trust them. I"d inform FAA and AOPA as well as LocMart.

>the gov't contract manager will never see the complaint.

Here's an e-mail link to the FAA section that manages the contract:
Suggestion Box:

>and there was no survery to take

AOPA has a survey, so you can inform them of your FSS experiences
here: http://surveys.aopa.org/cgi-bin/qwebcorporate.cgi?idx=SP46SS

>BT
>
>"BTIZ" > wrote in message
>news:a55zg.16649$6w.6212@fed1read11...
>> thanx for the feed back.. I was searching AOPA for that link to complain..
>> I had visited the Cedar City AFSS shortly after the takeover and spoke
>> with a few that were there, most where with FAA long enough to retire and
>> take the LocMar contracting position..
>>
>> BT
>>
>> "Larry Dighera" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> On Sun, 30 Jul 2006 11:58:05 GMT, ".Blueskies."
>>> > wrote in
>>> >::
>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Larry Dighera" > wrote in message
...
>>>>: On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 18:53:32 -0700, "BTIZ" >
>>>>: wrote in <riUyg.16617$6w.9894@fed1read11>::
>>>>:
>>>>: >Attempted contact with Cedar City UT AFSS failed today... twice..
>>>>: >dialed 1800wxbrief, got the ugly repeats of the "changes" to the
>>>>security
>>>>: >NOTAMs, and then select option to talk to a briefer.. after 10 rings
>>>>the
>>>>: >system disconnected...
>>>>: >same problem on reattempt... so much for checking (updating) FIRE
>>>>TFRs..
>>>>:
>>>>:
>>>>: Well, you're not going to be able to complain about long telephone
>>>>: hold times now that LocMart is on the job. :-(
>>>>:
>>>>
>>>>Don't know if that is true,
>>>
>>> Given:
>>>
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> AVwebFlash Volume 12, Number 26b -- June 29, 2006
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> AOPA LISTS PERFORMANCE PARAMETERS
>>> (http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/667-full.html#192587)
>>> When Lockheed took over the system, the company set its
>>> performance standards high. AOPA this week provided details
>>> (http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/newsitems/2006/060623afss.html) of
>>> what kind of service you should be getting -- and said if you're
>>> not getting it, you should report that via the feedback form on
>>> the new Web portal. (After all, you paid for it.) According to
>>> AOPA, the AFSS should answer your phone call within 20 seconds and
>>> radio calls within 5 seconds. You must receive service from your
>>> radio call within 15 seconds. PIREPs must be processed within 30
>>> seconds and within 15 seconds if they are urgent. Briefers must
>>> have knowledge of the unique weather conditions in your area.
>>> Briefers must meet those standards whether it is a busy, clear
>>> summer day or a slow, dreary day in winter, AOPA says.
>>> http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/667-full.html#192587
>>> and, BTIZ' complaint: "after 10 rings the system disconnected," it's
>>> becoming clear how a large corporation meets its 20-second maximum
>>> phone hold time contractual obligation; just disconnect the phone line
>>> before 20 seconds have elapsed.
>>>
>>> And our government is none the wiser:
>>>
>>> http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/ato/aca/
>>> Office of Competitive Sourcing
>>> The Office of Competitive Sourcing conducts competitive sourcing
>>> acquisitions on those commercial activities identified by the
>>> agency for study. Our rigorous and disciplined approach considers
>>> all stakeholders, what services to provide, and the safety and
>>> security of the National Airspace System (NAS).
>>>
>>> Through innovative competitive sourcing solutions the Office of
>>> Competitive Sourcing ensures the FAA's delivery of efficient and
>>> effective services to end-users. The office carries out these
>>> activities under the guidelines of OMB Circular A-76 and the FAA's
>>> Acquisition Management System (AMS).
>>>
>>> AFSS A-76 Competition
>>>
>>> And If you like the way large corporations serve the public, you're
>>> going to love privatized ATC. :-(
>>>
>>>
>>>>but if you can get on here to complain, then you can also get here:
>>>>http://www.afss.com/feedback/
>>>>
>>>
>>> Thank you for the link. However, considering that it is the FSS
>>> contractor who will see your complaint, not an organization with
>>> oversight responsibilities like the FAA nor AOPA, it might be better
>>> directed here:
>>>
>>> If you use FSS services, tell us about it by taking our survey on
>>> AOPA Online:
>>> http://surveys.aopa.org/cgi-bin/qwebcorporate.cgi?idx=SP46SS
>>>
>>>
>>> LOCKHEED MARTIN FLIGHT SERVICE WEB SITE GOES LIVE
>>> Are you put on hold for several minutes when you call
>>> 800/WX-BRIEF? You shouldn't be. Are you getting detailed security
>>> and weather briefings when you call? You should be. That's part of
>>> Lockheed Martin's promise to pilots while it is modernizing the
>>> FSS system, which it took over from the FAA on October 4 last
>>> year. If those promises aren't being kept, you now have a way
>>> to report service difficulties to Lockheed Martin--through its new
>>> Web site ( http://www.afss.com ). The site provides pilots with a
>>> means to report any difficulties they experience with flight
>>> service, along with updates on the progress of the modernization,
>>> known as FS21, and information for flight planning. "From the
>>> beginning, AOPA demanded performance standards to hold Lockheed
>>> Martin accountable for the commitments they made to serve pilots,"
>>> said Melissa Rudinger, AOPA vice president of regulatory affairs.
>>> "We want to make sure the modernization is done right, and this
>>> Web site allows pilots to report what services are and aren't
>>> working for them." See AOPA Online
>>> ( http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/newsitems/2006/060623afss.html ).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> NEXT FOR LOCKHEED, THE NATIONAL AIRSPACE SYSTEM?
>>> (http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/667-full.html#192588)
>>> If Lockheed Martin proves successful with the AFSS transition,
>>> will the airspace system be next? The company recently teamed up
>>> with Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University to create the "Airport
>>> of the Future (http://erau.edu/research/erau_research_park.html),"
>>> a technology test bed at Daytona Beach International Airport. This
>>> "teaching airport" will demonstrate how to provide more
>>> comprehensive data to air traffic controllers, airport operators,
>>> security officials and airline dispatchers. "We believe that a
>>> strong transportation infrastructure is critical to our nation's
>>> economic well-being and our citizens' way of life," Judy Marks,
>>> president of Lockheed Martin Transportation and Security
>>> Solutions, said last week
>>>
>>> (http://sev.prnewswire.com/aerospace-defense/20060623/DCF04323062006-1.html)
>>> at a briefing of the National Press Club in Washington, D.C.
>>> http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/667-full.html#192588
>>
>>
>

[BTIZ]

thanx.. I found the AOPA survey link
thanx for the faa link

BT

"Larry Dighera" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 30 Jul 2006 21:23:05 -0700, "BTIZ" >
> wrote in <JAfzg.16746$6w.4291@fed1read11>::
>
>
>>you guys did not tell me I'd have to log in to make a complaint...
>
> How else are they going to keep the spam from filling their in box?
>
>>and is it a problem if the Lockheed people are taking the complaints..
>
> If LocMart is intentionally disconnecting the telephone line, so their
> hold time will not exceed their maximum under their contract, I
> wouldn't trust them. I"d inform FAA and AOPA as well as LocMart.
>
>>the gov't contract manager will never see the complaint.
>
> Here's an e-mail link to the FAA section that manages the contract:
> Suggestion Box:
>
>>and there was no survery to take
>
> AOPA has a survey, so you can inform them of your FSS experiences
> here: http://surveys.aopa.org/cgi-bin/qwebcorporate.cgi?idx=SP46SS
>
>>BT
>>
>>"BTIZ" > wrote in message
>>news:a55zg.16649$6w.6212@fed1read11...
>>> thanx for the feed back.. I was searching AOPA for that link to
>>> complain..
>>> I had visited the Cedar City AFSS shortly after the takeover and spoke
>>> with a few that were there, most where with FAA long enough to retire
>>> and
>>> take the LocMar contracting position..
>>>
>>> BT
>>>
>>> "Larry Dighera" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> On Sun, 30 Jul 2006 11:58:05 GMT, ".Blueskies."
>>>> > wrote in
>>>> >::
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>"Larry Dighera" > wrote in message
...
>>>>>: On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 18:53:32 -0700, "BTIZ" >
>>>>>: wrote in <riUyg.16617$6w.9894@fed1read11>::
>>>>>:
>>>>>: >Attempted contact with Cedar City UT AFSS failed today... twice..
>>>>>: >dialed 1800wxbrief, got the ugly repeats of the "changes" to the
>>>>>security
>>>>>: >NOTAMs, and then select option to talk to a briefer.. after 10 rings
>>>>>the
>>>>>: >system disconnected...
>>>>>: >same problem on reattempt... so much for checking (updating) FIRE
>>>>>TFRs..
>>>>>:
>>>>>:
>>>>>: Well, you're not going to be able to complain about long telephone
>>>>>: hold times now that LocMart is on the job. :-(
>>>>>:
>>>>>
>>>>>Don't know if that is true,
>>>>
>>>> Given:
>>>>
>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> AVwebFlash Volume 12, Number 26b -- June 29, 2006
>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> AOPA LISTS PERFORMANCE PARAMETERS
>>>> (http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/667-full.html#192587)
>>>> When Lockheed took over the system, the company set its
>>>> performance standards high. AOPA this week provided details
>>>> (http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/newsitems/2006/060623afss.html) of
>>>> what kind of service you should be getting -- and said if you're
>>>> not getting it, you should report that via the feedback form on
>>>> the new Web portal. (After all, you paid for it.) According to
>>>> AOPA, the AFSS should answer your phone call within 20 seconds and
>>>> radio calls within 5 seconds. You must receive service from your
>>>> radio call within 15 seconds. PIREPs must be processed within 30
>>>> seconds and within 15 seconds if they are urgent. Briefers must
>>>> have knowledge of the unique weather conditions in your area.
>>>> Briefers must meet those standards whether it is a busy, clear
>>>> summer day or a slow, dreary day in winter, AOPA says.
>>>> http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/667-full.html#192587
>>>> and, BTIZ' complaint: "after 10 rings the system disconnected," it's
>>>> becoming clear how a large corporation meets its 20-second maximum
>>>> phone hold time contractual obligation; just disconnect the phone line
>>>> before 20 seconds have elapsed.
>>>>
>>>> And our government is none the wiser:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/ato/aca/
>>>> Office of Competitive Sourcing
>>>> The Office of Competitive Sourcing conducts competitive sourcing
>>>> acquisitions on those commercial activities identified by the
>>>> agency for study. Our rigorous and disciplined approach considers
>>>> all stakeholders, what services to provide, and the safety and
>>>> security of the National Airspace System (NAS).
>>>>
>>>> Through innovative competitive sourcing solutions the Office of
>>>> Competitive Sourcing ensures the FAA's delivery of efficient and
>>>> effective services to end-users. The office carries out these
>>>> activities under the guidelines of OMB Circular A-76 and the FAA's
>>>> Acquisition Management System (AMS).
>>>>
>>>> AFSS A-76 Competition
>>>>
>>>> And If you like the way large corporations serve the public, you're
>>>> going to love privatized ATC. :-(
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>but if you can get on here to complain, then you can also get here:
>>>>>http://www.afss.com/feedback/
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thank you for the link. However, considering that it is the FSS
>>>> contractor who will see your complaint, not an organization with
>>>> oversight responsibilities like the FAA nor AOPA, it might be better
>>>> directed here:
>>>>
>>>> If you use FSS services, tell us about it by taking our survey on
>>>> AOPA Online:
>>>> http://surveys.aopa.org/cgi-bin/qwebcorporate.cgi?idx=SP46SS
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> LOCKHEED MARTIN FLIGHT SERVICE WEB SITE GOES LIVE
>>>> Are you put on hold for several minutes when you call
>>>> 800/WX-BRIEF? You shouldn't be. Are you getting detailed security
>>>> and weather briefings when you call? You should be. That's part of
>>>> Lockheed Martin's promise to pilots while it is modernizing the
>>>> FSS system, which it took over from the FAA on October 4 last
>>>> year. If those promises aren't being kept, you now have a way
>>>> to report service difficulties to Lockheed Martin--through its new
>>>> Web site ( http://www.afss.com ). The site provides pilots with a
>>>> means to report any difficulties they experience with flight
>>>> service, along with updates on the progress of the modernization,
>>>> known as FS21, and information for flight planning. "From the
>>>> beginning, AOPA demanded performance standards to hold Lockheed
>>>> Martin accountable for the commitments they made to serve pilots,"
>>>> said Melissa Rudinger, AOPA vice president of regulatory affairs.
>>>> "We want to make sure the modernization is done right, and this
>>>> Web site allows pilots to report what services are and aren't
>>>> working for them." See AOPA Online
>>>> ( http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/newsitems/2006/060623afss.html ).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> NEXT FOR LOCKHEED, THE NATIONAL AIRSPACE SYSTEM?
>>>> (http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/667-full.html#192588)
>>>> If Lockheed Martin proves successful with the AFSS transition,
>>>> will the airspace system be next? The company recently teamed up
>>>> with Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University to create the "Airport
>>>> of the Future (http://erau.edu/research/erau_research_park.html),"
>>>> a technology test bed at Daytona Beach International Airport. This
>>>> "teaching airport" will demonstrate how to provide more
>>>> comprehensive data to air traffic controllers, airport operators,
>>>> security officials and airline dispatchers. "We believe that a
>>>> strong transportation infrastructure is critical to our nation's
>>>> economic well-being and our citizens' way of life," Judy Marks,
>>>> president of Lockheed Martin Transportation and Security
>>>> Solutions, said last week
>>>>
>>>> (http://sev.prnewswire.com/aerospace-defense/20060623/DCF04323062006-1.html)
>>>> at a briefing of the National Press Club in Washington, D.C.
>>>> http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/667-full.html#192588
>>>
>>>
>>