The Idiot without the NOTAM

[john smith]

Makes his first call orbiting Holstein Airport approx 13:17:52 Z

FAA Registry
N-Number Inquiry Results
N9553A is Assigned

Aircraft Description
Serial Number 17280376
Type Registration Corporation
Manufacturer Name CESSNA
Certificate Issue Date 08/20/1999
Model 172R
Status Valid
Type Aircraft Fixed Wing Single-Engine
Type Engine Reciprocating
Pending Number Change None
Dealer No
Date Change Authorized None
Mode S Code 53244774
MFR Year 1998
Fractional Owner NO

Registered Owner
Name AIRVIEW INC
Street 1360 QUEENS DR
City MOON TOWNSHIP
State PENNSYLVANIA
Zip Code 15108-1379
County ALLEGHENY
Country UNITED STATES

From the Pennsylvania Secretary of State website...
Business Entity Filing History
(Select the link above to view the Business Entity's Filing History)
Business Name History
Name AIR VIEW INC.
Name Type Current Name
Business Corporation - Domestic - Information
Entity Number: 692467
Status: Active
Entity Creation Date: 8/28/1979
Registered Office Address: ROUTE 30 & STAR ROUTE 981 LATROBE PA 15650-0
Mailing Address: No Address

This is next to the Latrobe airport

[Jay Honeck]

> Makes his first call orbiting Holstein Airport approx 13:17:52 Z

Now if you can only track down the lady who literally READ the OSH
NOTAM to another pilot over the radio, en route to OSH (after she had
downloaded it -- in flight -- to her PDA), you'll be truly performing a
public service.

We also heard a bunch of guys (presumably en route to OSH) who were
landing at a towered airport and were having to read the arrival
procedure and frequencies to their buddy, who clearly had no sectional
and no clue what he was doing.

It's scary to think that people launch toward OSH without studying the
NOTAM in advance -- but some do.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[[email protected]]

Jay Honeck wrote:
> > Makes his first call orbiting Holstein Airport approx 13:17:52 Z
[snip]
> It's scary to think that people launch toward OSH without studying the
> NOTAM in advance -- but some do.

I realize I'm new to all this, ~75 hours, new plastic card and all, but
I cannot imagine starting even a short cross country without looking up
all this information and writing it on my flight planning log. Much
less going into OSH or SnF without talking to someone who's been AND
getting the NOTAMs etc. I have to say, my reaction to all this is if I
ever get to OSH, I'll drive. My main remaining fear in flying is mid
air collision and this seems like a prime recipie for that.

I think something Jay said in one of the other threads is correct, this
is the only cross country people make all year. And they are
irresponsible. Sigh. I hope GA is aorund for my kids, but I begin to
wonder...

John Stevens
PP-ASEL

[Marco Leon]

I truly believe that if the "system"--excluding the Darwin factor--were
able to raise the bar and get rid of the bottom 5-10% of pilots flying
now in terms cognitive, decision-making, and stick-n-rudder ability we
would see a dramatic (maybe 50%) decrease in accidents. In time, it
will even revitalize GA by removing the "it's so dangerous up there"
mindset currently predominating the general public's opinion and more
people would start flying.

Marco (flame shield on :) )



Jay Honeck wrote:
> > Makes his first call orbiting Holstein Airport approx 13:17:52 Z
>
> Now if you can only track down the lady who literally READ the OSH
> NOTAM to another pilot over the radio, en route to OSH (after she had
> downloaded it -- in flight -- to her PDA), you'll be truly performing a
> public service.
>
> We also heard a bunch of guys (presumably en route to OSH) who were
> landing at a towered airport and were having to read the arrival
> procedure and frequencies to their buddy, who clearly had no sectional
> and no clue what he was doing.
>
> It's scary to think that people launch toward OSH without studying the
> NOTAM in advance -- but some do.
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"

[Gig 601XL Builder]

I curious john, How did you track down the first two numbers of his N#? All
I ever heard were 53A and I never even heard a type.


"john smith" > wrote in message
...
> Makes his first call orbiting Holstein Airport approx 13:17:52 Z
>
> FAA Registry
> N-Number Inquiry Results
> N9553A is Assigned
>
> Aircraft Description
> Serial Number 17280376
> Type Registration Corporation
> Manufacturer Name CESSNA
> Certificate Issue Date 08/20/1999
> Model 172R
> Status Valid
> Type Aircraft Fixed Wing Single-Engine
> Type Engine Reciprocating
> Pending Number Change None
> Dealer No
> Date Change Authorized None
> Mode S Code 53244774
> MFR Year 1998
> Fractional Owner NO
>
> Registered Owner
> Name AIRVIEW INC
> Street 1360 QUEENS DR
> City MOON TOWNSHIP
> State PENNSYLVANIA
> Zip Code 15108-1379
> County ALLEGHENY
> Country UNITED STATES
>
> From the Pennsylvania Secretary of State website...
> Business Entity Filing History
> (Select the link above to view the Business Entity's Filing History)
> Business Name History
> Name AIR VIEW INC.
> Name Type Current Name
> Business Corporation - Domestic - Information
> Entity Number: 692467
> Status: Active
> Entity Creation Date: 8/28/1979
> Registered Office Address: ROUTE 30 & STAR ROUTE 981 LATROBE PA 15650-0
> Mailing Address: No Address
>
> This is next to the Latrobe airport

[Peter R.]

Gig 601XL Builder <wrDOTgiaconaATcox.net> wrote:

> I curious john, How did you track down the first two numbers of his N#? All
> I ever heard were 53A and I never even heard a type.

It was in the raw archives at the first call-up. When I created the clip
and posted the link here, I purposely abbreviated the entire tail ID since
I did not want to be the one responsible for this pilot's humiliation.

--
Peter

[Jeff[_1_]]

Peter, I missed your post with the link. Can you repost?

thanks

jf

"Peter R." > wrote in message
...
> Gig 601XL Builder <wrDOTgiaconaATcox.net> wrote:
>
>> I curious john, How did you track down the first two numbers of his N#?
>> All
>> I ever heard were 53A and I never even heard a type.
>
> It was in the raw archives at the first call-up. When I created the clip
> and posted the link here, I purposely abbreviated the entire tail ID since
> I did not want to be the one responsible for this pilot's humiliation.
>
> --
> Peter

[Peter R.]

Jeff <jfranks1971 minus > wrote:

> Peter, I missed your post with the link. Can you repost?

Repost:

OK, found the exchange and edited the clip to only contain the relevant
communications for anyone interested in hearing it. Note that the LiveATC
OSH feed is monitoring a few different frequencies, so there are a couple
of sections where some of the ATC or pilot's comms are clipped.

The link to the MP3 file of the exchange at about 4.5 Mb in size, available
for two weeks from today (Spread-It's limit for free file sharing):

http://tinyurl.com/lu6uu


--
Peter

[Thomas Borchert]

> I realize I'm new to all this, ~75 hours, new plastic card
>

What "plastic" card? <gd&r>

You're right, I wouldn't dream of going out there without all that
information, but the people are there.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Thomas Borchert]

Marco,

> I truly believe that if the "system"--excluding the Darwin factor--were
> able to raise the bar and get rid of the bottom 5-10% of pilots flying
> now in terms cognitive, decision-making, and stick-n-rudder ability we
> would see a dramatic (maybe 50%) decrease in accidents. In time, it
> will even revitalize GA by removing the "it's so dangerous up there"
> mindset currently predominating the general public's opinion and more
> people would start flying.
>

I fully agree. Question is: Who gets to decide?

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Thomas Borchert]

Peter,

Incredible! And as has been mentioned in other threads, the controller
is way too accomodating. He should have turned him away.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Lakeview Bill]

tinyurl seems to be having a problem; could you post the full link?



"Peter R." > wrote in message
...
> Jeff <jfranks1971 minus > wrote:
>
> > Peter, I missed your post with the link. Can you repost?
>
> Repost:
>
> OK, found the exchange and edited the clip to only contain the relevant
> communications for anyone interested in hearing it. Note that the LiveATC
> OSH feed is monitoring a few different frequencies, so there are a couple
> of sections where some of the ATC or pilot's comms are clipped.
>
> The link to the MP3 file of the exchange at about 4.5 Mb in size,
available
> for two weeks from today (Spread-It's limit for free file sharing):
>
> http://tinyurl.com/lu6uu
>
>
> --
> Peter

[Peter R.]

Lakeview Bill > wrote:

> tinyurl seems to be having a problem; could you post the full link?

Hmmm, still works for me, but here you go:

http://www7.spread-it.com/dl.php?id=c51b106cdacc1123f3eb1d78ff19e09ff53e77f7

--
Peter

[Gig 601XL Builder]

"Peter R." > wrote in message
...
> Gig 601XL Builder <wrDOTgiaconaATcox.net> wrote:
>
>> I curious john, How did you track down the first two numbers of his N#?
>> All
>> I ever heard were 53A and I never even heard a type.
>
> It was in the raw archives at the first call-up. When I created the clip
> and posted the link here, I purposely abbreviated the entire tail ID since
> I did not want to be the one responsible for this pilot's humiliation.
>

Ok, I missed it when I listen to it live and then when I didn't hear it on
the replay I thought it wasn't there.

The guy was responsible for his own humiliation. And I agree with the other
posters who thing he should have been turned around and sent home which was
the controllers first response, btw.

[Mike Schumann]

I can't believe that there isn't some serious enforcement going on. Anyone
who flies to Oshkosh and doesn't have the NOTAM with them should get their
ticket revoked for 5 years.

Mike Schumann

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>> Makes his first call orbiting Holstein Airport approx 13:17:52 Z
>
> Now if you can only track down the lady who literally READ the OSH
> NOTAM to another pilot over the radio, en route to OSH (after she had
> downloaded it -- in flight -- to her PDA), you'll be truly performing a
> public service.
>
> We also heard a bunch of guys (presumably en route to OSH) who were
> landing at a towered airport and were having to read the arrival
> procedure and frequencies to their buddy, who clearly had no sectional
> and no clue what he was doing.
>
> It's scary to think that people launch toward OSH without studying the
> NOTAM in advance -- but some do.
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>

[Mike Schumann]

There's a really simple solution. Upon landing at Oshkosh EVERY plane gets
a very simple ramp check to make sure that they have the NOTAM with them.
Anyone who arrives without a NOTAM gets their ticket revoked for 5 years.

Problem solved.

Mike Schumann

"Thomas Borchert" > wrote in message
...
> Marco,
>
>> I truly believe that if the "system"--excluding the Darwin factor--were
>> able to raise the bar and get rid of the bottom 5-10% of pilots flying
>> now in terms cognitive, decision-making, and stick-n-rudder ability we
>> would see a dramatic (maybe 50%) decrease in accidents. In time, it
>> will even revitalize GA by removing the "it's so dangerous up there"
>> mindset currently predominating the general public's opinion and more
>> people would start flying.
>>
>
> I fully agree. Question is: Who gets to decide?
>
> --
> Thomas Borchert (EDDH)
>

[Thomas Borchert]

Mike,

> There's a really simple solution.
>

Sounds a lot like the 10 k$ solution proposed for violating the
Washington ADIZ.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Mike Schumann]

Why is there no enforcement action against this pilot? Flying to Oshkosh
without a sectional or the NOTAM should be an obvious violation of the FARs.

It's not like they don't have evidence or an ID.

Mike Schumann

"Thomas Borchert" > wrote in message
...
> Peter,
>
> Incredible! And as has been mentioned in other threads, the controller
> is way too accomodating. He should have turned him away.
>
> --
> Thomas Borchert (EDDH)
>

[Jules]

Jay Honeck wrote:


> It's scary to think that people launch toward OSH without studying the
> NOTAM in advance -- but some do.


And if anybody asked them, they would claim to be good pilots.

[Bob Moore]

Mike Schumann wrote
> I can't believe that there isn't some serious enforcement going on.
> Anyone who flies to Oshkosh and doesn't have the NOTAM with them
> should get their ticket revoked for 5 years.

Probably the same sort of a deal that SnF had with the FAA back in the
1988-1992 era. "don't ticket the overweight ultralights". Those were the
years when ULs were the big thing at SnF, and if there was even the rumor
of FAA sanctions for the illegal aircraft, the place would have been empty.

Bob Moore

[Marco Leon]

Although Mike's post was a little tongue-in-cheek, the solution can be
something similar. There could be a "license suspension pending retest"
for a number of situations that fall under a "that was really a dumb
thing" category. Hopefully the bottom 10% would weed themselves out of
the picture.

Given a fair, analytical and fully researched approach to the problem,
I think it can really work. Basically, there should be a "wash-out"
situation like the US Air Force (or any air force for that matter) and
the airlines. GA ability to revoke licenses is only based on bad
violations and the most extreme examples of inability.

Marco

Thomas Borchert wrote:
> > I realize I'm new to all this, ~75 hours, new plastic card
> >
>
> What "plastic" card? <gd&r>
>
> You're right, I wouldn't dream of going out there without all that
> information, but the people are there.
>
> --
> Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Chris G.]

oh my god... I can't imagine someone being THAT inept. I would not have
let the guy in, but, then again, I get kinda persnickety about idiotic
stuff sometimes. I'm going to share that file though!!!!!

Chris G.


Peter R. wrote:
> Jeff <jfranks1971 minus > wrote:
>
>> Peter, I missed your post with the link. Can you repost?
>
> Repost:
>
> OK, found the exchange and edited the clip to only contain the relevant
> communications for anyone interested in hearing it. Note that the LiveATC
> OSH feed is monitoring a few different frequencies, so there are a couple
> of sections where some of the ATC or pilot's comms are clipped.
>
> The link to the MP3 file of the exchange at about 4.5 Mb in size, available
> for two weeks from today (Spread-It's limit for free file sharing):
>
> http://tinyurl.com/lu6uu
>
>

[Andrew Gideon]

On Tue, 01 Aug 2006 12:10:45 -0400, Jules wrote:

> And if anybody asked them, they would claim to be good pilots.

I'd love to hear the answer from them to the question "what happened to
the preflight requirement?"

- Andrew

[john smith]

In article >,
"Gig 601XL Builder" <wrDOTgiaconaATcox.net> wrote:

> I curious john, How did you track down the first two numbers of his N#? All
> I ever heard were 53A and I never even heard a type.

See below. I listened with headphones, could hear his first call clearly.

> "john smith" > wrote in message
> > Makes his first call orbiting Holstein Airport approx 13:17:52 Z

[[email protected]]

"Chris G." > wrote:
> oh my god... I can't imagine someone being THAT inept. I would not have
> let the guy in, but, then again, I get kinda persnickety about idiotic
> stuff sometimes. I'm going to share that file though!!!!!

Which situation would the ATC have had his behind on the line for had
something happened? helping guide him into OSH knowing he wasn't
prepared, or refusing to do that and insisting that he turn around and
go back?

[Steven P. McNicoll[_1_]]

> wrote in message
...
>
> Which situation would the ATC have had his behind on the line for had
> something happened? helping guide him into OSH knowing he wasn't
> prepared, or refusing to do that and insisting that he turn around and
> go back?
>

As I recall the ATC didn't do either of those. He explained the VFR arrival
procedure to him and told him to remain clear of the Oshkosh Class D
airspace while on his way to Ripon.

[Viperdoc[_2_]]

Is there any way we could find this guy's email. Perhaps if we all sent him
a welcome back note he might get the picture.

On the other hand he sounded like someone who was used to always having his
own way, and that the "rules" couldn't possibly apply to someone as great as
he thought he was.

[gatt]

"Peter R." > wrote in message
...

> It was in the raw archives at the first call-up. When I created the clip
> and posted the link here, I purposely abbreviated the entire tail ID since
> I did not want to be the one responsible for this pilot's humiliation.

Oh, he's definately responsible for his own humiliation!

Listening to it right now. I half expect to hear "My dog ate my sectional."

Listening to this will -definately- make me doublecheck my information
before I fly. Thanks!


-c

[Just go look it up!]

On Tue, 01 Aug 2006 23:23:08 GMT, "Viperdoc"
> wrote:

>Is there any way we could find this guy's email. Perhaps if we all sent him
>a welcome back note he might get the picture.
>
>On the other hand he sounded like someone who was used to always having his
>own way, and that the "rules" couldn't possibly apply to someone as great as
>he thought he was.
>

Who says the guy who owns the corp was the guy who was behind the
wheel at the time? It could be on the line of a flightschool as a
leaseback for all we know.

[john smith]

In article >,
"Viperdoc" > wrote:

> Is there any way we could find this guy's email. Perhaps if we all sent him
> a welcome back note he might get the picture.
>
> On the other hand he sounded like someone who was used to always having his
> own way, and that the "rules" couldn't possibly apply to someone as great as
> he thought he was.

I think if this gets played in public at safety seminars, EAA chapter
meetings, pilot club meetings, etc, people who know him are going to let
him know about it, if the FAA doesn't track him down. People in the
Latrobe area are definitly going to let the guy know. If it was a
rental/leaseback, the they lessor may take some action.

[john smith]

In article >,
wrote:

> "Chris G." > wrote:
> > oh my god... I can't imagine someone being THAT inept. I would not have
> > let the guy in, but, then again, I get kinda persnickety about idiotic
> > stuff sometimes. I'm going to share that file though!!!!!
>
> Which situation would the ATC have had his behind on the line for had
> something happened? helping guide him into OSH knowing he wasn't
> prepared, or refusing to do that and insisting that he turn around and
> go back?

ATC did us all a favor getting this guy out of the airspace and onto the
ground as quickly as possible. I would give the controller a big atta
boy for recognizing the bad situation and resolving it quickly. That is
what makes the controllers at OSH so special. We can disapprove of the
pilot's incompetence, but the controller did an outstanding job.

[Viperdoc[_2_]]

However, a friendly message could be sent to the owner saying that at this
time and place someone in his plane really acted like a jerk (and send the
link). He could make his own conclusions. Otherwise, as oblivious as he was,
how will he ever know?

Another smaller example- I was invited to a meeting at the American Club in
Kohler, WI, which is a pretty posh place. To enter the front of the hotel
there is a circle off of the main road- in at one end and out at the other,
and very well marked. As we tried to exit, the whole traffic line was
blocked by a guy going in the exit, against all traffic and with the do not
enter sign in clear sight.

This typifies the same behavior as the guy who flew into OSH without
bothering to read the notams- they simply don't care about other people,
common courtesy, or safety. They just do what happens to be convenient for
them at the moment, but don't want to take responsibility for their own
actions if something goes wrong.

My impression of these oblivious and self centered idiots is that they
really don't care what other people think- the rules simply don't apply to
them.

[vincent p. norris]

>City MOON TOWNSHIP
>State PENNSYLVANIA
>Zip Code 15108-1379
>County ALLEGHENY

>Registered Office Address: ROUTE 30 & STAR ROUTE 981 LATROBE PA 15650-0
>
>This is next to the Latrobe airport

But Moon Township, Allegheny County, is the location of Greater
Pittsburgh Airport.

vince norris

[Bob Fry]

Jesus H Tap-Dancing CHRIST On a Bicycle!! How can someone be such an
idiot, and how can the controllers be so accomodating??

I'm especially ****ed because I was busted on a VIP TFR violation a
few months ago, as I've posted here before. NO safety hazard
whatsover to anybody, unless you count the airport manager running
around huffin' n' puffin' trying to find the culprit after a call from
ATC. So let's see, what do I get? An automatic 30 day suspension, no
reprieve, PLUS a probable ADDITIIONAL 15 days for not getting a
pre-flight briefing.

THIS f***ing idiot hasn't checked JACK-**** about anything, and he
gets the red-carpet treatment from the controllers as a big favor.

@#$!# the FAA.

[Bob Fry]

>>>>> "js" == jsstevens > writes:

js> I realize I'm new to all this, ~75 hours, new plastic card and
js> all, but I cannot imagine starting even a short cross country
js> without looking up all this information and writing it on my
js> flight planning log.

You will, at some point.

js> my reaction to all this is if I ever get to OSH,
js> I'll drive. My main remaining fear in flying is mid air
js> collision and this seems like a prime recipie for that.

Nahhh...get another 100-200 hours, and 50-75 hours in the past
year, and you'll be good. Or fly it the first time with a more
experienced hand in the right seat.

[Jose[_1_]]

> ATC did us all a favor getting this guy out of the airspace and onto the
> ground as quickly as possible.

They could always delay him in the taxi route.

Jose
--
The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the music.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Steven P. McNicoll[_1_]]

"Jose" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> They could always delay him in the taxi route.
>

Not without delaying everyone behind him.

[Jose[_1_]]

>>They could always delay him in the taxi route.
>>>
>
>
> Not without delaying everyone behind him.
>
>
They could park him in the wrong spot.

Jose
--
The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the music.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Steven P. McNicoll[_1_]]

"Jose" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> They could park him in the wrong spot.
>

They don't handle parking.

[Jose[_1_]]

>>They could park him in the wrong spot.
>>>
>
>
> They don't handle parking.
>
>
They could talk to those who do.

Jose
--
The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the music.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Peter R.]

Jose > wrote:

>>>They could always delay him in the taxi route.
>>>>
>>
>> Not without delaying everyone behind him.
>>
> They could park him in the wrong spot.

Nah, the pilot in question had a "a...ee...uh...er...arrival
....er...a...parking area there reserved." :)

--
Peter

[Steven P. McNicoll[_1_]]

"Jose" > wrote in message
.. .
>
> They could talk to those who do.
>

They have enough to do.

[Mike Adams[_2_]]

"Lakeview Bill" > wrote:

>> http://tinyurl.com/lu6uu
>

Wow! That's incredible! I couldn't figure out what this long thread was about until I just listened to it. It's
so bad, it almost sounds like satire - someone making a recording trying to sound as bad as possible.
That is just awful, and totally embarrassing - it makes all genav look bad.

Mike

[john smith]

> > They could park him in the wrong spot.

They did direct him to Basler's, didn't they?

[Marco Leon]

I couldn't agree with you more Viperdoc. This is probably the same guy
that is used to pulling more strings than an orchestra to get his way.
A line from an article in the latest AOPA Pilot stood out for me:

"Not every act of stupidity is punished."

The consequence of this very true statement is that the world will
always have guys like these running around. By trying to be "nice" the
controller became just another contributor to the problem.

Marco


Viperdoc wrote:
> However, a friendly message could be sent to the owner saying that at this
> time and place someone in his plane really acted like a jerk (and send the
> link). He could make his own conclusions. Otherwise, as oblivious as he was,
> how will he ever know?
>
[snip]

[[email protected]]

"Marco Leon" > wrote:
> "Not every act of stupidity is punished."
>
> The consequence of this very true statement is that the world will
> always have guys like these running around. By trying to be "nice" the
> controller became just another contributor to the problem.

I understand your point and agree, but was the controller just "trying
to be nice" or did he instantly size-up the situation and conclude that
the best thing he could do for everyone else in the sky would be to help
get him out of there as efficiently as possible?

[Morgans[_3_]]

"Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote in message
nk.net...
>
> "Jose" > wrote in message
> . ..
> >
> > They could park him in the wrong spot.
> >
>
> They don't handle parking.

Yes, but they can be in contact with the flagmen with one call. They should
have had them pull up at the "shack" right in front of the tower, and sent
one of the pink shirts down to have a chat with him.
--
Jim in NC

[Morgans[_3_]]

"Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote in message
nk.net...
>
> "Jose" > wrote in message
> .. .
> >
> > They could talk to those who do.
> >
>
> They have enough to do.

I don't think you realize the inner workings of the ATC system at OSH. Have
you ever done the OSH controlling?

They have plenty of people spotting, and on stanby, that making a phone call
would be small potatoes.
--
Jim in NC

[B A R R Y[_1_]]

Viperdoc wrote:
>
> On the other hand he sounded like someone who was used to always having his
> own way, and that the "rules" couldn't possibly apply to someone as great as
> he thought he was.
>

I like the way he stated he was having "bad day". Evidently, he forgot
about the other 100's of aircraft the controllers needed to work that day.

[Al[_1_]]

> wrote in message
...
> "Marco Leon" > wrote:
>> "Not every act of stupidity is punished."
>>
>> The consequence of this very true statement is that the world will
>> always have guys like these running around. By trying to be "nice" the
>> controller became just another contributor to the problem.
>
> I understand your point and agree, but was the controller just "trying
> to be nice" or did he instantly size-up the situation and conclude that
> the best thing he could do for everyone else in the sky would be to help
> get him out of there as efficiently as possible?

Well the controller started out with:

"Do you have the NOTAM?"
"No."
"Then I suggest you go back to the airport and get it."

He couldn't have been clearer. It was VFR. I would have snuck off quietly,
and returned later, maybe much later.

This link is now being passed around, worldwide. If he doesn't know about it
now, he soon will. If I can find a way to present it, I'll play it at our
next EAA chapter meeting. We all fear "Screwing the Pooch", and the training
value of this transcript is beyond words. How carefully will you plan a
flight in the future, knowing a major screwup could easily be replayed to
everyone you know and most you don't. This fellow could easily become the
poster child for "Head up and Locked". In the long run, his actions may
actually save lives.

There have to be other aircraft that end in 53A. I would not be surprised to
hear someone call "53A, downwind for landing, and I'm not "HIM""

I feel no need to attempt to characterize this fellow, as that would only be
speculation, but if I were him, I would seriously be looking at changing my
N number.

I too was waiting to hear "My dog ate my sectional".

I can just see the grocery clerk saying "Aren't you the guy that..."

There were probably dozens(maybe hundreds) of other pilots in line, holding
for hours at 90kts, constantly scanning for traffic, and properly staying
off the frequency until they are spoken to. I commend each and every one of
them.


Al G

[B A R R Y[_1_]]

Al wrote:
>
>
> "Do you have the NOTAM?"
> "No."
> "Then I suggest you go back to the airport and get it."

He could have gone to ANY airport that I've ever seen and printed the
NOTAM from DUATS, etc... It's not like he would have had to go all the
way back to PA.

He probably departed without the correct procedures as well. <G>

[Viperdoc[_1_]]

I sent this email to the two FBO's at Latrobe airport:

You may have a customer in a Cessna 172 N9553A who recently flew into
Oshkosh for the EAA convention. He has been the subject of significant
debate on the internet regarding his lack of preparation or knowledge of the
appropriate notams and approach procedures.

The newsgroup rec.aviation.piloting has most of the thread. The N number as
well as the corporate owner of the plane have been identifed on the web as
well.

Here is some of the recorded communication for his interest:
http://tinyurl.com/lu6uu

He may be interested in listening to this as well as reading the thread

Hopefully we will all have learned from this experience.

[Montblack[_1_]]

("Mike Adams" wrote)
> Wow! That's incredible! I couldn't figure out what this long thread was
> about until I just listened to it. It's so bad, it almost sounds like
> satire - someone making a recording trying to sound as bad as possible.

> That is just awful, and totally embarrassing - it makes all genav look
> bad.


http://tinyurl.com/lu6uu

I think ATC helps out the odd person, or two, or three, "on frequency"
because they know there are other unsure lurkers (in the air) who will,
also, be helped by having this info.


Montblack

[Steven P. McNicoll[_1_]]

"Morgans" > wrote in message
...
>
> I don't think you realize the inner workings of the ATC system at OSH.
>

What makes you think that? Do you think you realize the inner workings of
the ATC system at OSH?


>
> Have
> you ever done the OSH controlling?
>

Yes, for nine years, from Aurora Illinois.


>
> They have plenty of people spotting, and on stanby, that making a phone
> call
> would be small potatoes.
>

Why they gonna call?

[Grumman-581[_1_]]

On Tue, 01 Aug 2006 23:59:31 GMT, "gatt"
> wrote:
> Listening to it right now. I half expect to hear "My dog ate my sectional."

Never had my dog eat my sectional, but I've had them blow out of the
cockpit when I had the canopy back...

[Peter R.]

Viperdoc > wrote:

> Here is some of the recorded communication for his interest:
> http://tinyurl.com/lu6uu

Keep in mind that Spread-It.com, the site I initially chose to host that
clip and the link to which the TinyURL link above resolves, only offers the
file for download two weeks from the initial day it was uploaded (in this
case, the last week of July).

If you need a more permeant location, we would need to find a better home
for the clip. I have webspace I could use, if needed.



--
Peter

[Peter R.]

"Peter R." > wrote:

> If you need a more permeant location,

Uh, that would be "permanent," nor "permeant."

--
Peter

[john smith]

In article >,
Grumman-581 > wrote:

> On Tue, 01 Aug 2006 23:59:31 GMT, "gatt"
> > wrote:
> > Listening to it right now. I half expect to hear "My dog ate my sectional."
>
> Never had my dog eat my sectional, but I've had them blow out of the
> cockpit when I had the canopy back...

I was listening to the OSH feed on LiveATC this past Sunday afternoon.
The C-54 requested to taxi to Baslers. ATC queried as to the reason. The
response, "We just had our chart sucked out the window, so we need to
get another one."

[Marco Leon]

The owner's name may be found using Google. If you do a Google search
on the street address from the registration name, a PDF file is found
that contains a statement the guy made during some airport commision
meeting. He describes himself as owning a number of aircraft and being
in aviation for 25 years so he may very well be the owner but not the
operator.

His initials are V.S.

Marco




Peter R. wrote:
> "Peter R." > wrote:
>
> > If you need a more permeant location,
>
> Uh, that would be "permanent," nor "permeant."
>
> --
> Peter

[Grumman-581[_1_]]

On Wed, 02 Aug 2006 17:50:34 GMT, john smith > wrote:
> I was listening to the OSH feed on LiveATC this past Sunday afternoon.
> The C-54 requested to taxi to Baslers. ATC queried as to the reason. The
> response, "We just had our chart sucked out the window, so we need to
> get another one."

The times that I've had it happen, it was always in flight... One was
on my first trip to OSH...

It sucks having to look up at the last minute an airport's frequencies
in the AOPA airport guide or AFD instead of just seeing it on the
map...

[B A R R Y[_1_]]

Grumman-581 wrote:
>
> Never had my dog eat my sectional, but I've had them blow out of the
> cockpit when I had the canopy back...


So that's where that sectional came from I found on the front lawn!

[Travis Marlatte]

From the clip, it doesn't sound like a lot of other planes were holding or
inbound. The controller didn't interact with a single other plane during the
4 or 5 minute clip. Unless the clip was clipped, talking the guy in was a
courteous thing to do. If there had been others holding or already inbound,
then talking him through it would have been more difficult and more
dangerous.

By the way, I haven't seen anyone else refer to the fact that not only did
he not have the NOTAMs, it didn't seem as if he had even read them
thoroughly - much less study them. He also didn't have sectionals. All he
had was enroute charts. I don't buy his line that he left them at the
airport. Sounds like a guy used to IFR flight plans for every flight and
just decided to drop in on OSH.

--
-------------------------------
Travis
Lake N3094P
PWK

> wrote in message
...
> "Marco Leon" > wrote:
>> "Not every act of stupidity is punished."
>>
>> The consequence of this very true statement is that the world will
>> always have guys like these running around. By trying to be "nice" the
>> controller became just another contributor to the problem.
>
> I understand your point and agree, but was the controller just "trying
> to be nice" or did he instantly size-up the situation and conclude that
> the best thing he could do for everyone else in the sky would be to help
> get him out of there as efficiently as possible?

[Peter R.]

Travis Marlatte > wrote:

> Unless the clip was clipped, talking the guy in was a
> courteous thing to do. If there had been others holding or already inbound,
> then talking him through it would have been more difficult and more
> dangerous.

The clip was edited down to just the interaction between the pilot and
controller. On the raw feed, you would have heard moderate activity with
numerous other aircraft on the frequency during that period.


--
Peter

[Gary Drescher]

"B A R R Y" > wrote in message
m...
> Al wrote:
>>
>> "Do you have the NOTAM?"
>> "No."
>> "Then I suggest you go back to the airport and get it."
>
> He could have gone to ANY airport that I've ever seen and printed the
> NOTAM from DUATS, etc... It's not like he would have had to go all the
> way back to PA.

Or he could've radioed FSS and asked them for the text of the NOTAM.

--Gary

[Steven P. McNicoll[_1_]]

"Gary Drescher" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> Or he could've radioed FSS and asked them for the text of the NOTAM.
>

Maybe. FSS radio traffic tends to be a bit higher during AirVenture.

[Jay Honeck]

> > Or he could've radioed FSS and asked them for the text of the NOTAM.
>
> Maybe. FSS radio traffic tends to be a bit higher during AirVenture.

My experiences with FSS is that they are often (a) hard to contact, (b)
hard to hear, and (c) pressed for time. I can't imagine -- nor would
I want -- them reading a multi-page, single-spaced NOTAM to someone
over the radio, while other pilots are waiting for a weather update.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Gary Drescher]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>> > Or he could've radioed FSS and asked them for the text of the NOTAM.
>>
>> Maybe. FSS radio traffic tends to be a bit higher during AirVenture.
>
> My experiences with FSS is that they are often (a) hard to contact, (b)
> hard to hear, and (c) pressed for time. I can't imagine -- nor would
> I want -- them reading a multi-page, single-spaced NOTAM to someone
> over the radio, while other pilots are waiting for a weather update.

I agree it's far from ideal. But it's a lot better than having a busy
controller do it.

--Gary

[Gig 601XL Builder]

"Gary Drescher" > wrote in message
...
> "Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>>> > Or he could've radioed FSS and asked them for the text of the NOTAM.
>>>
>>> Maybe. FSS radio traffic tends to be a bit higher during AirVenture.
>>
>> My experiences with FSS is that they are often (a) hard to contact, (b)
>> hard to hear, and (c) pressed for time. I can't imagine -- nor would
>> I want -- them reading a multi-page, single-spaced NOTAM to someone
>> over the radio, while other pilots are waiting for a weather update.
>
> I agree it's far from ideal. But it's a lot better than having a busy
> controller do it.
>


The controller should have done what he first started to do which was send
the guy out of the class D to get the NOTAM.

[Morgans[_3_]]

"Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote

> What makes you think that? Do you think you realize the inner workings of
> the ATC system at OSH?

Oh, I almost forgot. You already know everything.
--
Jim in NC

[Morgans[_3_]]

"john smith" > wrote

> I was listening to the OSH feed on LiveATC this past Sunday afternoon.
> The C-54 requested to taxi to Baslers. ATC queried as to the reason. The
> response, "We just had our chart sucked out the window, so we need to
> get another one."

At least he was honest, an went to get another! <g>
--
Jim in NC

[Morgans[_3_]]

"B A R R Y" > wrote
>
> So that's where that sectional came from I found on the front lawn!

I picked a sectional up one year, from beside 18 during a departure push.
--
Jim in NC

[Steven P. McNicoll[_2_]]

Morgans wrote:
> "Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote
> >
> > What makes you think that? Do you think you realize the inner workings of
> > the ATC system at OSH?
> >
>
> Oh, I almost forgot. You already know everything.
>

Not quite. If I already knew everything I wouldn't have had to ask you
those questions.

[Grumman-581[_1_]]

On Thu, 3 Aug 2006 16:46:28 -0400, "Morgans" >
wrote:
> At least he was honest, an went to get another! <g>

I've never lost one while on the ground even though my canopy is
usually pulled quite a bit further back... Probably because there is
not enough wind velocity... In the air, on the other hand, I've lost a
few over the years... That's one of the reasons that I don't
necessarily throw away old sectionals... If the current one blows out,
an old one is better than none...

Now, if my LORAN database would just blow out the window so that I
could justify getting an update... <grin>

[Blanche Cohen]

For those without access to FlightAware...N9553A did not fly on an
IFR flight plan between June 28 and July 25.
There was another month of no IFR between May 27 and June 22.

[[email protected]]

Blanche Cohen wrote:
> For those without access to FlightAware...N9553A did not fly on an
> IFR flight plan between June 28 and July 25.
> There was another month of no IFR between May 27 and June 22.

Here's a link to the audio.

http://oshawapilot.ca/audio/oshkosh.mp3

[Scott Owens]

I have had the unfortunate experience of dealing with this nut.
He has threatened legal action against one of my clients for NOT selling him her aircraft. He would not meet her price and conditions so we moved on.

He didnt.

He has gone behind my back and is now sending her harassing emails.

I started to investigate this nut and found this thread.
I listen to it an it sure sounds like ole Vince to me.

Its is amazing that you all have accurately summed him up with only this tape to go on! This guy doesnt listen to anything you say and believes you aggree with everything he says.

I have been dealing with him since early March 2012 and you would not believe the emails we have received from him! So many I can hardly keep track of all of them!

ViperDoc wrote the following chilling assessment of this guy:
On the other hand he sounded like someone who was used to always having his own way, and that the "rules" couldn't possibly apply to someone as great as he thought he was.

So true. I could tell you tales!
And check out his email signature. Notice the credentials.

Vincent H. Smith ATP,CFI-I, CFAI, AGI, FAASTeam Eastern Region.
Cessna Sr. Training Pilot / Aircraft Pre-Buy Consultant
145 Beale Road
Sarver, PA 16055-9411
Airviewinc at juno.com 1st. OFFICE...724-295-9464(Wing) Cell 412-496-2248

The FAASTeam Eastern Region was added to only one email to my client when he was trying to convince her that he knew more about her plane than she did. It disappeared from all subsequent emails leading me to question its authenticity so I went to the FAAST site to search and he is not listed as a member.

Strange. Guess I just dont know how to search for stuff.

Ive been in this business for over 35 years and I have NEVER met anyone like this.
And threatening a woman!
What a punk.
And an idiot too since she happens to be an attorney!

[[email protected]]

On Monday, July 31, 2006 11:28:17 PM UTC-4, john smith wrote:
> Makes his first call orbiting Holstein Airport approx 13:17:52 Z
>
> FAA Registry
> N-Number Inquiry Results
> N9553A is Assigned
>
> Aircraft Description
> Serial Number 17280376
> Type Registration Corporation
> Manufacturer Name CESSNA
> Certificate Issue Date 08/20/1999
> Model 172R
> Status Valid
> Type Aircraft Fixed Wing Single-Engine
> Type Engine Reciprocating
> Pending Number Change None
> Dealer No
> Date Change Authorized None
> Mode S Code 53244774
> MFR Year 1998
> Fractional Owner NO
>
> Registered Owner
> Name AIRVIEW INC
> Street 1360 QUEENS DR
> City MOON TOWNSHIP
> State PENNSYLVANIA
> Zip Code 15108-1379
> County ALLEGHENY
> Country UNITED STATES
>
> From the Pennsylvania Secretary of State website...
> Business Entity Filing History
> (Select the link above to view the Business Entity's Filing History)
> Business Name History
> Name AIR VIEW INC.
> Name Type Current Name
> Business Corporation - Domestic - Information
> Entity Number: 692467
> Status: Active
> Entity Creation Date: 8/28/1979
> Registered Office Address: ROUTE 30 & STAR ROUTE 981 LATROBE PA 15650-0
> Mailing Address: No Address
>
> This is next to the Latrobe airport

Is anyone still following this discussion?