Cigarette Lighter Adapter- Cessna 172

[[email protected]]

I've been flying for 7 years now, and a few weeks ago I attempted to
plug in my portable GPS unit into a 2003 172 and ... I couldn't. The
"standard" cigarette adapter has been replaced with a smaller
something. I didn't have time to look too closely as to what the new
outlet is. The GPS was just a backup and I was just going locally .

If anyone else has experienced this, I would appreciate any info on
what adapter I would need to continue to use the "old" cigarette size
plug and who sells them.

Thanks in advance.

[Jim Macklin]

What brand and model is the GPS? Is it a smaller size power
adapter that came with the GPS or is the problem a change in
the cigarette lighter in the airplane?


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

> wrote in message
ups.com...
| I've been flying for 7 years now, and a few weeks ago I
attempted to
| plug in my portable GPS unit into a 2003 172 and ... I
couldn't. The
| "standard" cigarette adapter has been replaced with a
smaller
| something. I didn't have time to look too closely as to
what the new
| outlet is. The GPS was just a backup and I was just going
locally .
|
| If anyone else has experienced this, I would appreciate
any info on
| what adapter I would need to continue to use the "old"
cigarette size
| plug and who sells them.
|
| Thanks in advance.
|

[john smith]

SPORTY's sells the specific Cessna adaptor.
http://www.sportys.com/acb/showdetl.cfm?&Product_ID=9591&DID=19
Now you can plug your handheld GPS into your new Cessna's electrical
system with this handy adapter. Simply insert the small end of the
connector into the airplane's 12 volt cabin power outlet, then plug your
GPS, radio or laptop into the female cigarette adapter end. The adapter
weighs almost nothing, but will stand up to almost any abuse. Measures 8
1/2 in. long.
Ordering Information
12V Cabin Power Connector
Item Number: 7826A
Price: $19.95

[RST Engineering]

I could be wrong, but I think Cessna changed the size of the cigarette
lighter plug strictly because so many people were plugging their 12 volt
equipment into the 24 volt aircraft supply and blowing the supply up.

CAUTION. Cessna changed to a 24 volt system sometime in the late 70s/early
80s.

Jim



> wrote in message
ups.com...
> I've been flying for 7 years now, and a few weeks ago I attempted to
> plug in my portable GPS unit into a 2003 172 and ... I couldn't. The
> "standard" cigarette adapter has been replaced with a smaller
> something. I didn't have time to look too closely as to what the new
> outlet is. The GPS was just a backup and I was just going locally .
>
> If anyone else has experienced this, I would appreciate any info on
> what adapter I would need to continue to use the "old" cigarette size
> plug and who sells them.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>

[Peter Clark]

Yea, really annoying thing. Only lasted one or two model years before
they went back to the standard lighter socket.

On Thu, 03 Aug 2006 22:17:58 GMT, john smith > wrote:

>SPORTY's sells the specific Cessna adaptor.
>http://www.sportys.com/acb/showdetl.cfm?&Product_ID=9591&DID=19
>Now you can plug your handheld GPS into your new Cessna's electrical
>system with this handy adapter. Simply insert the small end of the
>connector into the airplane's 12 volt cabin power outlet, then plug your
>GPS, radio or laptop into the female cigarette adapter end. The adapter
>weighs almost nothing, but will stand up to almost any abuse. Measures 8
>1/2 in. long.
>Ordering Information
>12V Cabin Power Connector
>Item Number: 7826A
>Price: $19.95

[Peter Clark]

All the new (since the line started back up) 172R/S models have
transformers. The outlets are 12V.


On Thu, 3 Aug 2006 16:02:08 -0700, "RST Engineering"
> wrote:

>I could be wrong, but I think Cessna changed the size of the cigarette
>lighter plug strictly because so many people were plugging their 12 volt
>equipment into the 24 volt aircraft supply and blowing the supply up.
>
>CAUTION. Cessna changed to a 24 volt system sometime in the late 70s/early
>80s.
>
>Jim
>
>
>
> wrote in message
ups.com...
>> I've been flying for 7 years now, and a few weeks ago I attempted to
>> plug in my portable GPS unit into a 2003 172 and ... I couldn't. The
>> "standard" cigarette adapter has been replaced with a smaller
>> something. I didn't have time to look too closely as to what the new
>> outlet is. The GPS was just a backup and I was just going locally .
>>
>> If anyone else has experienced this, I would appreciate any info on
>> what adapter I would need to continue to use the "old" cigarette size
>> plug and who sells them.
>>
>> Thanks in advance.
>>
>

[RST Engineering]

I don't mean to be pedantic, but you can't "transform" a DC voltage;
transformers only work on AC. Do they use a center tap on the battery or a
regulator? If they use a regulator, it had damned well better be a hefty
one to take the slug of current that a cigarette lighter draws.

Jim



"Peter Clark" > wrote in message
...
> All the new (since the line started back up) 172R/S models have
> transformers. The outlets are 12V.

[Andrew Sarangan[_1_]]

wrote:
> I've been flying for 7 years now, and a few weeks ago I attempted to
> plug in my portable GPS unit into a 2003 172 and ... I couldn't. The
> "standard" cigarette adapter has been replaced with a smaller
> something. I didn't have time to look too closely as to what the new
> outlet is. The GPS was just a backup and I was just going locally .
>
> If anyone else has experienced this, I would appreciate any info on
> what adapter I would need to continue to use the "old" cigarette size
> plug and who sells them.
>
> Thanks in advance.

Do people really smoke cigarettes while flying?

[Jose[_1_]]

> Do people really smoke cigarettes while flying?

My instrument flight instructor did, but not when I was in the plane.

Jose
--
The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the music.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Grumman-581[_1_]]

agbangsit On 3 Aug 2006 20:40:39 -0700, "Andrew Sarangan"
> wrote:
> Do people really smoke cigarettes while flying?

If a person is seriously addicted to them, then yeah, I suspect so...
Hell, I've seen people who have had a laryngectomy or tracheostomy due
to cancer from smoking end up later smoking through the hole in their
neck... Even though I've never smoked, I don't want to give up my
lighter plug in my aircraft or any of my cars... I use them for too
many other gadgets that I don't want to do without... I even built my
own 9 Ah power supply box out of a boating dry-box with a bulkhead
mounted lighter-type port for a 12VDC supply... It also has a bulkhead
computer power cord type receptacle so that I can plug it into the
wall for charging... Standard lead acid type battery, but sealed, so I
can carry it on commercial airliners... Lets me have a small portable
DVD player with me and not have to worry about how long the battery
might last... OK, to be more precise, it lets Grace & Kaitlyn have it
with them and I don't have to listen to them complain about not having
enough battery power for an entire day wasted travelling...

[Dan Luke]

"RST Engineering" wrote:

>I don't mean to be pedantic...

LOL

[Andrew Sarangan[_1_]]

B A R R Y wrote:
> On Fri, 04 Aug 2006 07:15:03 GMT, Grumman-581
> > wrote:
> >Even though I've never smoked, I don't want to give up my
> >lighter plug in my aircraft or any of my cars... I use them for too
> >many other gadgets that I don't want to do without...
>
> Many new cars include multiple outlets.

It would make a lot more sense to include a 110V ac outlet (using an
inverter) instead of the 12V/24V plug. That way you can use the
standard wall connector and not have to worry about carrying special
adaptors.

[Ron Natalie]

RST Engineering wrote:
> I don't mean to be pedantic, but you can't "transform" a DC voltage;
> transformers only work on AC. Do they use a center tap on the battery or a
> regulator? If they use a regulator, it had damned well better be a hefty
> one to take the slug of current that a cigarette lighter draws.
>
> Jim
>
>
Only if it is indeed a cigarette lighter and not just a cylindrical 12V
power outlet. My plane has the latter (it just has a plastic cap on
it). I would blow the breaker if I tried to stick a cigarette lighter
in there.

[Ron Natalie]

Andrew Sarangan wrote:

> Do people really smoke cigarettes while flying?
>

The DE who gave me my private checkride smoked a pipe
while flying. The ashtrays in the planes pretty much
showed that someone else in the right seat used to smoke
(my flight instructor was a smoker, but he never smoked
while instructing to my knowledge).

[Morgans[_3_]]

"Andrew Sarangan" > wrote

> It would make a lot more sense to include a 110V ac outlet (using an
> inverter) instead of the 12V/24V plug. That way you can use the
> standard wall connector and not have to worry about carrying special
> adaptors.

Do you have any idea how much power that would require, and the cost of the
inverter for a good sized, powerful laptop computer?

With the inefficiency of most inverters, at least 1000 watt, and the price
goes into hundreds of dollars.
--
Jim in NC

[Larry Dighera]

On Thu, 3 Aug 2006 20:05:39 -0700, "RST Engineering"
> wrote in
>:

>If they use a regulator, it had damned well better be a hefty
>one to take the slug of current that a cigarette lighter draws.

That would be about 10 amps if it's similar to an automobile.

[Andrew Sarangan[_1_]]

Morgans wrote:
> "Andrew Sarangan" > wrote
>
> > It would make a lot more sense to include a 110V ac outlet (using an
> > inverter) instead of the 12V/24V plug. That way you can use the
> > standard wall connector and not have to worry about carrying special
> > adaptors.
>
> Do you have any idea how much power that would require, and the cost of the
> inverter for a good sized, powerful laptop computer?
>
> With the inefficiency of most inverters, at least 1000 watt, and the price
> goes into hundreds of dollars.
> --
> Jim in NC

I have an inverter that I bought for $19.99. It has a 150W contunuos
power rating. It runs my laptop just fine. Why do you need 1000W?

[Morgans[_3_]]

> >It would make a lot more sense to include a 110V ac outlet (using an
> >inverter) instead of the 12V/24V plug.
>
> My Toyota has both! <G>
>
How many watts, or amps?
--
Jim in NC

[Jim Logajan]

"Andrew Sarangan" > wrote:
> Morgans wrote:
>> Do you have any idea how much power that would require, and the cost
>> of the inverter for a good sized, powerful laptop computer?
>>
>> With the inefficiency of most inverters, at least 1000 watt, and the
>> price goes into hundreds of dollars.
>> --
>> Jim in NC
>
> I have an inverter that I bought for $19.99. It has a 150W contunuos
> power rating. It runs my laptop just fine. Why do you need 1000W?

If the expectation is that the inverter is terribly inefficient (say ~10%)
I could see it needing to draw 1000 W DC to produce 100 W AC. But I believe
they are generally 80% efficient or better - otherwise they'd fry
themselves. Laptops aren't supposed to be very power hungry - even my floor
standing "tower" computer (excluding my CRT monitor) typically draws under
100 W AC (I used a portable power meter to measure the power draw of my
computer equipment to size the UPS I needed for my home office).

[Newps]

Morgans wrote:

> "Andrew Sarangan" > wrote
>
>
>>It would make a lot more sense to include a 110V ac outlet (using an
>>inverter) instead of the 12V/24V plug. That way you can use the
>>standard wall connector and not have to worry about carrying special
>>adaptors.
>
>
> Do you have any idea how much power that would require, and the cost of the
> inverter for a good sized, powerful laptop computer?
>
> With the inefficiency of most inverters, at least 1000 watt, and the price
> goes into hundreds of dollars.

What? I have a 150 watt inverter that works just fine for
recharging/running laptops, PDA's, cell phones, etc. It's an all in one
unit, no separate cord and device. About $20 at Walmart.

[Grumman-581[_1_]]

On Fri, 04 Aug 2006 11:16:50 GMT, B A R R Y
> wrote:
> Many new cars include multiple outlets.

Yep and some of them don't even include the lighter portion, further
reinforcing that it is an accessory plug... Hell, Grace's new car has
a red insert where the ash tray normally would be that says, "NOT AN
ASHTRAY" on it... Since it's fabric covered, it would probably catch
fire if someone used it as such... I suspect it's for putting coins in
there and the fabric covering is so that it won't rattle as much...

[Grumman-581[_1_]]

On Fri, 4 Aug 2006 09:29:32 -0400, "Morgans" >
wrote:
> Do you have any idea how much power that would require, and the cost of the
> inverter for a good sized, powerful laptop computer?

Looking at Grace's new laptop, I see a power supply rating of 100V at
1.6A, thus a 160W maximum draw... I have two inverters -- one for
whatever vehicle I'm currently driving and one for Grace's vehicle...
I believe that each is around 400W... On a trip a few years ago (back
before the popularity of portable DVD players), I had a small CRT type
TV, small home DVD player, and two laptops all running off a single
inverter...

It would be nice if there were 110V outlets in the cars, but I can see
how from a safety standpoint, the car manufacturers might be hesitant
from a liability standpoint... They would probably all have to be on a
GFI circuit at least... Easier for them to just put multiple 12VDC
outlets in the vehicles and let the user decide whether to run their
gadget off of it or to get an inverter...

> With the inefficiency of most inverters, at least 1000 watt, and the price
> goes into hundreds of dollars.

Most of the ones that I've seen have around 90% efficiency, sometimes
even more...

[Morgans[_3_]]

"Andrew Sarangan" > wrote

> I have an inverter that I bought for $19.99. It has a 150W contunuos
> power rating. It runs my laptop just fine. Why do you need 1000W?

My son has a whopper computer he uses for video editing and stuff, and when
it cranks up, it really sucks the power.
--
Jim in NC

[Morgans[_3_]]

"Jim Logajan" > wrote

> If the expectation is that the inverter is terribly inefficient (say ~10%)
> I could see it needing to draw 1000 W DC to produce 100 W AC. But I
believe
> they are generally 80% efficient or better - otherwise they'd fry
> themselves. Laptops aren't supposed to be very power hungry - even my
floor
> standing "tower" computer (excluding my CRT monitor) typically draws under
> 100 W AC (I used a portable power meter to measure the power draw of my
> computer equipment to size the UPS I needed for my home office).

The WallMart brand I think is Vextor, or something like that, and I have
found that it is not a whole lot more than 50% efficient.
--
Jim in NC

[Morgans[_3_]]

"Newps" > wrote

> What? I have a 150 watt inverter that works just fine for
> recharging/running laptops, PDA's, cell phones, etc. It's an all in one
> unit, no separate cord and device. About $20 at Walmart.

Look, all I can tell you is that my son's computer would not run on a 700
watt inverter, but would on a 1000 watt. That is not conjecture, that is
fact.
--
Jim in NC

[Stubby]

Grumman-581 wrote:
> On Fri, 4 Aug 2006 09:29:32 -0400, "Morgans" >
> wrote:
<...>

> Most of the ones that I've seen have around 90% efficiency, sometimes
> even more...
It has been many years since I was a circuit designer but I seem to
remember some theoretical limit on the efficiency of a static inverter
at 83%. This was caused by the energy lost in the transformer assuming
perfect switches (power transistors).

[Morgans[_3_]]

"B A R R Y" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 4 Aug 2006 12:52:03 -0400, "Morgans" >
> wrote:
>
> >
> >> My Toyota has both! <G>
> >>
> >How many watts, or amps?
>
> I'm not exactly sure off the top of my head, but I seem to remember
> 400 watts. It's been fine for AC power tool battery chargers,
> entertainment devices, my Icom handheld charger, reasonable
> worklights, etc... Air conditioners, electric ovens, compressors,
> and washing machines are out, but so what? <G>

Read the fine print before you continue to use it to recharge power tool
batteries. My inverter said do not use for chargers that hive a high
potentieal voltage, until the battery places a load on it, and it begins to
regulate. They may damage the charger.

Guess what. I didn't listen, and used a DeWalt charger; once, I got away
with. The second time, it quit working, and has not worked since.
--
Jim in NC

[Grumman-581[_1_]]

On Fri, 4 Aug 2006 15:55:03 -0400, "Morgans" >
wrote:
> My son has a whopper computer he uses for video editing and stuff, and when
> it cranks up, it really sucks the power.

Laptop or desktop machine?

If a laptop, look at the wall-wart / power cord power supply to see
what it is rated at for input voltage and amps... Grace's new laptop
said 65W on it, but if you look at the power supply input
requirements, it says that it can need as much as 1.6A at 100V... Of
course, the power supply might be able to output more than the laptop
is actually needing since they probably want to leave room for
expansion by the user...

As a side note, for my LCD monitor on my desktop machine, it only
requires 40W according to its power supply...

[john smith]

In article >,
Grumman-581 > wrote:

> Looking at Grace's new laptop, I see a power supply rating of 100V at
> 1.6A, thus a 160W maximum draw...

Put a bigger, faster hard drive in it and the demand will go up.
She has growth built in.

[Don Tuite]

On Fri, 04 Aug 2006 17:04:04 -0000, Jim Logajan >
wrote:

>"Andrew Sarangan" > wrote:
>> Morgans wrote:
>>> Do you have any idea how much power that would require, and the cost
>>> of the inverter for a good sized, powerful laptop computer?
>>>
>>> With the inefficiency of most inverters, at least 1000 watt, and the
>>> price goes into hundreds of dollars.
>>> --
>>> Jim in NC
>>
>> I have an inverter that I bought for $19.99. It has a 150W contunuos
>> power rating. It runs my laptop just fine. Why do you need 1000W?
>
>If the expectation is that the inverter is terribly inefficient (say ~10%)
>I could see it needing to draw 1000 W DC to produce 100 W AC. But I believe
>they are generally 80% efficient or better - otherwise they'd fry
>themselves. Laptops aren't supposed to be very power hungry - even my floor
>standing "tower" computer (excluding my CRT monitor) typically draws under
>100 W AC (I used a portable power meter to measure the power draw of my
>computer equipment to size the UPS I needed for my home office).

The highest power laptop ac/dc converters today are rated at 120 W and
the roadmap is for 150 W. They'll probably stall there because of the
difficulty of cooling them even with efficiencies poking into the 90s.
I think silver box supplies for the top performing gamer boxes are at
around 500 W, but that may be low. Laptop power drains will drop when
laptops switch from cold-cathode fluorescent backlighting to LEDs. My
guess, based on what I saw at the Society for Information Display
conference in May, is that that is about 3 years away.

Don

[Don Tuite]

On Fri, 04 Aug 2006 16:01:01 -0400, Stubby
> wrote:

>
>
>Grumman-581 wrote:
>> On Fri, 4 Aug 2006 09:29:32 -0400, "Morgans" >
>> wrote:
><...>
>
>> Most of the ones that I've seen have around 90% efficiency, sometimes
>> even more...
>It has been many years since I was a circuit designer but I seem to
>remember some theoretical limit on the efficiency of a static inverter
>at 83%. This was caused by the energy lost in the transformer assuming
>perfect switches (power transistors).

For the last several years, all the new converters, ac/dc and dc/dc
have been switchers. For ac/dc, there are requirements that in
standby modes or open-circuited they consume no more than half a Watt.
Dc/dc switchers, from tens of watts, down to milliwatts (Your
cellphone can have as many as ten separate power rails.) do better
than 90% peak efficiency. Up to 3 A, they often integrate the
switching FETs.

But no gear draws peak power all the time. Unfortunately for the
power supply designer, supplies have to be able to deliver peak power
almost instantly.

Don

[Ron Natalie]

Morgans wrote:
> "Andrew Sarangan" > wrote
>
>> I have an inverter that I bought for $19.99. It has a 150W contunuos
>> power rating. It runs my laptop just fine. Why do you need 1000W?
>
> My son has a whopper computer he uses for video editing and stuff, and when
> it cranks up, it really sucks the power.

I have a DELL XPS GEN II laptop. Up until DELL's latest 20" behemouth
it was the largest laptop on the market. It sucks 90 watts from the
power supply. As a result, you can't get seat power for it (which
is limitted to 75).

[Ron Natalie]

Grumman-581 wrote:
> On Fri, 4 Aug 2006 09:29:32 -0400, "Morgans" >
> wrote:
>> Do you have any idea how much power that would require, and the cost of the
>> inverter for a good sized, powerful laptop computer?
>
> Looking at Grace's new laptop, I see a power supply rating of 100V at
> 1.6A, thus a 160W maximum draw...

I'd really be surprised. Most smaller notebooks are in the vicinity
of 60W really. Even the biggest ones only draw 90 from the DC
side.

[[email protected]]

On Fri, 04 Aug 2006 21:10:58 GMT, B A R R Y
> wrote:

>The weird thing about the Toyota inverter is that it's capable of a
>higher draw when the truck is idling vs. running at highway speed.
>They also install an inverter in the Matrix, but the outlet is in the
>dash vs. my bed outlet.

Sounds possible but will depend on what you're running.

If you draw the same output load you need to supply the same input.
If volts go down then amps need to rise since Power = Amps x Volts.

e.g. If you draw say 80 watts output all the time (assuming 80%
efficient) you will need to supply 100watts input.

When running the engine the battery will be charging at around 14
volts so will supply 100/14 = 7.1 amps.

At rest a 12v battery will have to supply 100/12 = 8.3 amps
If the battery is less than 12 volts it will be even higher.

[.Blueskies.]

"RST Engineering" > wrote in message ...
:I don't mean to be pedantic, but you can't "transform" a DC voltage;
: transformers only work on AC. Do they use a center tap on the battery or a
: regulator? If they use a regulator, it had damned well better be a hefty
: one to take the slug of current that a cigarette lighter draws.
:
: Jim
:
:
:

Don't they use a voltage divider of some sort?

[Morgans[_3_]]

"Ron Natalie" > wrote in message
m...
> Grumman-581 wrote:
> > On Fri, 4 Aug 2006 09:29:32 -0400, "Morgans" >
> > wrote:
> >> Do you have any idea how much power that would require, and the cost of
the
> >> inverter for a good sized, powerful laptop computer?
> >
> > Looking at Grace's new laptop, I see a power supply rating of 100V at
> > 1.6A, thus a 160W maximum draw...
>
> I'd really be surprised. Most smaller notebooks are in the vicinity
> of 60W really. Even the biggest ones only draw 90 from the DC
> side.

I'll have to wait for my son to get home, and I'll post what his power
supply is rated at. You will be surprised! <g>
--
Jim in NC

[Peter Clark]

OK, it's a 'converter'. Not sure exactly what method it uses to
'convert'.

182T Nav III POH, section 7-73,

"12V POWER OUTLET

A power converter located in the cabin side of the firewall, ahead of
the right instrument panel, reduces the aircraft's 28 VDC power to 12
VDC. This converter provides up to 10 amps of power to operate
portable devices such as notebook computers and audio players. The
power output connector (POWER OUTLET 12V -10A) is located on the
center pedestal (refer to Figure 7-2)."

Usual disclaimer about 'see your own aircraft POH for amperage
available etc' applies, but it's also the same in the 172S Nav II and
III packages I've had experience with.

Newer 182T's (2005? and on - I've seen it in an 06) actually have a
rear-seat-mounted cabin power in addition to the one in the front with
it's own on/off switch on the main panel. I wonder if they mounted a
second 'converter' to handle that outlet or if they share somehow. I
was only ferrying it for maintenance and didn't look too closely.

On Thu, 3 Aug 2006 20:05:39 -0700, "RST Engineering"
> wrote:

>I don't mean to be pedantic, but you can't "transform" a DC voltage;
>transformers only work on AC. Do they use a center tap on the battery or a
>regulator? If they use a regulator, it had damned well better be a hefty
>one to take the slug of current that a cigarette lighter draws.
>
>Jim
>
>
>
>"Peter Clark" > wrote in message
...
>> All the new (since the line started back up) 172R/S models have
>> transformers. The outlets are 12V.
>

[NW_Pilot]

October will be 2 years off cig's cold turkey from 3 packs :) for me!

[[email protected]]

On Fri, 04 Aug 2006 22:11:47 GMT, B A R R Y
> wrote:

>On Fri, 04 Aug 2006 23:03:21 +0100, wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 04 Aug 2006 21:10:58 GMT, B A R R Y
> wrote:
>>
>>>The weird thing about the Toyota inverter is that it's capable of a
>>>higher draw when the truck is idling vs. running at highway speed.
>>>They also install an inverter in the Matrix, but the outlet is in the
>>>dash vs. my bed outlet.
>>
>>Sounds possible but will depend on what you're running.
>>
>
>It has nothing to do with what I'm running. The manual states, and
>the indicator lights will demonstrate, that the inverter swaps limits
>depending on engine RPM. The dash switch actually has two output
>status lights, and will flick back and forth as you drive if the
>inverter is energized, even without a load.

By running I was refering what load you are running from the inverter.