Oshkosh camping list? (Planning for next year)

[Peter R.]

Looking for a recommended list of items to bring to OSH if one were to go
there to camp for four days.

All this excitement in this group year after year has taken its toll on me
so I am now in the beginning planning stages to fly there next year. My
thought is that if I begin to plan now (as in begin to buy the required
camping gear and schedule the time off), I will be ready come next July.

--
Peter

[Kyle Boatright]

"Peter R." > wrote in message
...
> Looking for a recommended list of items to bring to OSH if one were to go
> there to camp for four days.
>
> All this excitement in this group year after year has taken its toll on me
> so I am now in the beginning planning stages to fly there next year. My
> thought is that if I begin to plan now (as in begin to buy the required
> camping gear and schedule the time off), I will be ready come next July.
>
> --
> Peter



How much weight/cube do you have to work with?

Will this be a one time camping event, or do you think you'll use the gear
for multiple trips to OSH?

The place to start is a good tent. SWMBO and I use a 2 person tent I use
for backpacking. It has adequate room for sleeping and the vestibules allow
for the storage of a lot of stuff under cover. One day I may upsize to a
3-4 person tent just to get more elbow room.

Beyond that, you need to figure out if you like foam mattresses, self
inflating mattresses (my favorite), air mattresses, or cots under you. My
thoughts are that some foams absorb water, which can be a bad thing. Cots
are big, and my back doesn't like air mattresses.

You need camp chairs. Something that is portable but comfortable. And a
cooler.

No need for sleeping bags. I'm far more comfortable using our old sheets and
blankets to get a more controllable layered effect. Sleeping bags have three
settings - zipped up (hot), partially open (most of you is hot, a slice is
cool), and fully open (no cover at all)...

The places not to cut corners are the tent and your sleeping pad/mattress.
Get these two items right and you'll sleep in comfort. Get 'em wrong and
you won't sleep at all.

KB

[Kyle Boatright]

"Kyle Boatright" > wrote in message
. ..
>
<<<snip>>>
>
> The places not to cut corners are the tent and your sleeping pad/mattress.
> Get these two items right and you'll sleep in comfort. Get 'em wrong and
> you won't sleep at all.
>
> KB

One addendum: Make sure the tent has a full sized fly. That's the cover
that goes over the top of the tent. Ideally, the fly should either reach
the ground all the way around the tent, or at least come close. The
inexpensive tents you can buy at Wal-Mart frequently have a fly that is is
far too small and allows blowing rain to come in. It isn't any fun sitting
inside your tent getting rained on... ;-)

A second addendum: Aluminum tent poles are far superior to fiberglass.
First, they are usually sold with a better grade of tent and are sized
appropriately to keep the tent from leaning over too far in a windstorm.
Also, fiberglass poles seem to split a lot.

KB

[Peter R.]

Kyle Boatright > wrote:

> How much weight/cube do you have to work with?

Good question: I would fly a Bonanza V35 with perhaps one other person (an
aviation buddy, as the wife would not go), so there would be about 250
pounds of available luggage weight.

> Will this be a one time camping event, or do you think you'll use the gear
> for multiple trips to OSH?

Hopefully multiple. :)

Your suggestions are exactly the type I need. Thanks.

--
Peter

[john smith]

In article >,
"Kyle Boatright" > wrote:

> "Kyle Boatright" > wrote in message
> . ..
> >
> <<<snip>>>
> >
> > The places not to cut corners are the tent and your sleeping pad/mattress.
> > Get these two items right and you'll sleep in comfort. Get 'em wrong and
> > you won't sleep at all.
> >
> > KB
>
> One addendum: Make sure the tent has a full sized fly. That's the cover
> that goes over the top of the tent. Ideally, the fly should either reach
> the ground all the way around the tent, or at least come close. The
> inexpensive tents you can buy at Wal-Mart frequently have a fly that is is
> far too small and allows blowing rain to come in. It isn't any fun sitting
> inside your tent getting rained on... ;-)
>
> A second addendum: Aluminum tent poles are far superior to fiberglass.
> First, they are usually sold with a better grade of tent and are sized
> appropriately to keep the tent from leaning over too far in a windstorm.
> Also, fiberglass poles seem to split a lot.

Tents (ad adendum):
Replace the original tent stakes that come with the tent. Most tent pegs
are plastic or lightweight aluminum. Get 9- or 12-inch heavyweight
aluminum or steel tent pegs/stakes. Get double what the tent requires.
Also, purchase extra guy line. Once you get your tent set up as per the
directions, use the extra pegs and guys at each attach point on the rain
fly. Extra guy lines are the secret to secure the tent against strong
winds. And AirVenture usually has at least one storm during the week
with strong winds.

[john smith]

In article >,
"Peter R." > wrote:

> Looking for a recommended list of items to bring to OSH if one were to go
> there to camp for four days.
>
> All this excitement in this group year after year has taken its toll on me
> so I am now in the beginning planning stages to fly there next year. My
> thought is that if I begin to plan now (as in begin to buy the required
> camping gear and schedule the time off), I will be ready come next July.

Will you be camping by yourself or with others?

This year I went by myself. The only things I used were:
- two-man tent
- down comforter, lightweight
- fleece sleeping bag
- Thermorest sleeping pad
- cooler
- small backpack
- 3-liter Camelbak hydration bladder
- 1-liter Nalgene bottle

This year I bought all my meals off the airport. I spent less than $100
on food for the five days I was there.
I camp on the North Forty and have ready access to the off-airport
sources. If you are camping south of the N40, you will have to plan your
day to shop or bring everything with you. I have learned that I have
more room in the airplane going and coming if I only pack what I need
for camping and purchase the consumables when I get to AirVenture.

Camping with the family:

Camping equipment:
- two-man tent (1)
- three-man tent (1)
- fleece sleeping bags (4)
- lightweight down comforters (4)
- propane stove w/propane tank (1)
- 5-gallon stainless steel pot w/lid (1)
- Rubbermaid 2.5 gal dishpans (2)
- 12-inch skillet (1)
- cleaning scrubbers (2)
- fluorescent lanterns (2)
- collapsable table (1)
- collabsable chairs (4)
- synthetic chamois (4)

Remember, consumables can be purchased when you get there. Paper
napkins, plates and cups, plastic knife/fork/spoons, dish soap, aluminum
foil.

I shop for dinner at the Pick N Save grocery store every afternoon. I
cook on the grill just as I do at home. Chicken breasts, salmon, fillet
mingon, frozen vegetables, rolls, mashed potatos or rice. I get ice
every evening.

Renting a bicycle from Goodwill the last two years makes getting around
much easier, but I didn't lose any weight this year as I have in the
past from all the walking.

Personal Clothing:
- broad brimmed hat
- sunglasses
- raingear (jacket/pants)
- nylon hiking pants w/zip-off legs
- polyester t-shirt
- synthetic lightweight hiking socks
- lightweight trailrunning shoes
- fleece pullover/zip up jacket
- polyester boxer briefs
- cotton sleeping shorts
- cotton tshirt
- flip-flop shower shoes

This is all you need for one week. None of the synthetic clothing will
hold water. Take it in the shower with you and wash it when you get your
shower. Wring it out, hang it to dry. If damp, put it on, your body heat
will have it dry in a short time.

[Ron Natalie]

Peter R. wrote:
> Looking for a recommended list of items to bring to OSH if one were to go
> there to camp for four days.
>
We camp relatively light. Tent, air mattress, sleeping bags, towels
(and soap and whatever else you'll need for the showers), couple of
folding chairs, small apparatus for making coffee in the morning,
and a case of wine, four glasses and a corkscrew.

[Ron Natalie]

Peter R. wrote:
> Looking for a recommended list of items to bring to OSH if one were to go
> there to camp for four days.
>
> All this excitement in this group year after year has taken its toll on me
> so I am now in the beginning planning stages to fly there next year. My
> thought is that if I begin to plan now (as in begin to buy the required
> camping gear and schedule the time off), I will be ready come next July.
>
Oh, and a flashlight (with a lanyard or something) for heading to the
port-o-lets at night and a small battery powered light and fan combo.

[Dan Luke]

"Peter R." wrote:

> Looking for a recommended list of items to bring to OSH if one were to go
> there to camp for four days.

A tent that you KNOW doesn't leak. Set it up in the back yard and wait for
rain if you have to, to be sure.

We had to cut our trip short this year because my buddy's hi-tech tent
couldn't manage to keep the rain out.

--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

[Mark Morissette]

There's been lots of good suggestions already posted. Depending on how much cooking you wish to do on-site versus eating at the on-site food areas (very expensive) or off site restaurants (only a few close, but still not inexpensive) you would want to probbaly bring a long a decent campstove and a small propane tank.

I also brought a small portable-style BBQ that provided for many meals, as well as a good propane lantern that provided evening lighting, and a "table in a bag" (fold up style) that although wasn't much bigger then a camp chair bag, provided alot of usefull off-the-ground workspace for cooking, gear, etc.

As for the tent, my opinion would differ on the aluminum poles versus fibreglass shock poles. During some of the winds we received this year (and I don't think there was any major storms we experienced compared to what I've read about years past) I'm not sure that an aluminum frame tent would survive.

I think that some amount of "give" in the tent is better then it holding-fast and then permanently bending. Aluminum poles don't bend untill its too late.

I did hear about a few people who had their tents get destroyed this year in a few of the storms we *did* receive...and although ours (shock-pole style) did alot of bending and torquing in the winds, it simply popped back into shape when the gusts passed, and survived it all...and we stayed dry just fine.

And I wholeheartedly agree that you need to do a thorough waterproof test ahead of time on the tent. We did get some hefty rainstorms and although ours stayed dry (I tested it at home to ensure it was good) others did not fare so well based on the campground chatter I heard after a night of rain.

I ended up bringing along alot of extra gear that I wouldn't bring again as it was either unused, or we could have just as easilly done without. Unfortunately this was my first time at Oshkosh and I came into the experience rather unexpecting of what would be usefull, and what would not be.

--
Mark
http://www.oshawapilot.ca
RPASEL, Canada

[Kyle Boatright]

"Mark Morissette" > wrote in message
...
>
> There's been lots of good suggestions already posted. Depending on how
> much cooking you wish to do on-site versus eating at the on-site food
> areas (very expensive) or off site restaurants (only a few close, but
> still not inexpensive) you would want to probbaly bring a long a decent
> campstove and a small propane tank.
>
> I also brought a small portable-style BBQ that provided for many meals, as
> well as a good propane lantern that provided evening lighting, and a
> "table in a bag" (fold up style) that although wasn't much bigger then a
> camp chair bag, provided alot of usefull off-the-ground workspace for
> cooking, gear, etc.
>
> As for the tent, my opinion would differ on the aluminum poles versus
> fibreglass shock poles. During some of the winds we received this year
> (and I don't think there was any major storms we experienced compared to
> what I've read about years past) I'm not sure that an aluminum frame tent
> would survive.

Some of the tent survival issue has to do with the size and design of the
tent. Our tent, with full vestibule, aluminum poles, and relatively low
height does very well. During Saturday's windstorm at OSH, our tent was
standing proud and other tents were almost flattened by deflection from the
wind. The results on Sunday were *probably* similar, but we had bugged out
for a shelter with hard sides and a real roof while the wind and rain
happened. When we got back to the campsite, our tent was intact, in place,
and dry. I didn't see any tents fail, on either Saturday or Sunday, but I
wouldn't have wanted to be in a cheap tent either morning. Once upon a time
I had tent that swayed so much in the wind that I woke up during the middle
of a storm with the side of the tent whacking me in the face. That was the
last trip for the 'ol Coleman tent...


>
> I think that some amount of "give" in the tent is better then it
> holding-fast and then permanently bending. Aluminum poles don't bend
> untill its too late.
>
> I did hear about a few people who had their tents get destroyed this year
> in a few of the storms we *did* receive...and although ours (shock-pole
> style) did alot of bending and torquing in the winds, it simply popped
> back into shape when the gusts passed, and survived it all...and we stayed
> dry just fine.
>
> And I wholeheartedly agree that you need to do a thorough waterproof test
> ahead of time on the tent. We did get some hefty rainstorms and although
> ours stayed dry (I tested it at home to ensure it was good) others did not
> fare so well based on the campground chatter I heard after a night of
> rain.
>
> I ended up bringing along alot of extra gear that I wouldn't bring again
> as it was either unused, or we could have just as easilly done without.
> Unfortunately this was my first time at Oshkosh and I came into the
> experience rather unexpecting of what would be usefull, and what would not
> be.
>
> --
> Mark
> http://www.oshawapilot.ca
> RPASEL, Canada

[Mark Morissette]

> Some of the tent survival issue has to do with the size and design of the
> tent. Our tent, with full vestibule, aluminum poles

True enough...a good quality tent is definately a necessity to survive Oshkosh, regardless of what design it ultimately is.

> Once upon a time I had tent that swayed so much in the wind that I woke up
> during the middle of a storm with the side of the tent whacking me in the
> face. That was the last trip for the 'ol Coleman tent...

Well.. *ahem*...Heh.... I might have experienced that on Monday (or was it Tuesday) night when we got the storm just after returning from the fly-in theatre.

It took some mighty gusts to accomplish it, but it did indeed fold down onto me a few times during the worts of the wind....as soon as the extremely high gusts subsided, it popped right back into shape however.

I'll guess that the storms you speak of on Saturday/Sunday were the closing weekend, not the opening weekend? We must have missed all of that as we packed up and headed home Saturday morning, just miraculously missing two strong cells to the east and west of us...but staying clear overhead long enough for us to tear down camp and scoot.

--
Mark
http://www.oshawapilot.ca
RPASEL, Canada

[Morgans[_3_]]

"john smith" > wrote
>
> Tents (ad adendum):
> Replace the original tent stakes that come with the tent. Most tent pegs
> are plastic or lightweight aluminum. Get 9- or 12-inch heavyweight
> aluminum or steel tent pegs/stakes. Get double what the tent requires.
> Also, purchase extra guy line. Once you get your tent set up as per the
> directions, use the extra pegs and guys at each attach point on the rain
> fly. Extra guy lines are the secret to secure the tent against strong
> winds. And AirVenture usually has at least one storm during the week
> with strong winds.

Strongly agree with the tent stuff. Extra lines are key!

If you are going to keep some food and drink (which I like, so you can eat a
light snack, rather than going for a big meal) and I gotta' have my drinks,
then you should consider a "pimp my cooler." For those not in the know,
that is where you take a decent water tight cooler, then take at least two
inch thick construction Styrofoam, and make a box around the cooler, and a
lid, so you have a cooler in a home-made cooler. Optional protection for
the Styrofoam can be light plywood (is any of it really light?) or a roll of
duct tape covering the foam.

You can extend ice life an extra day or two, at least, and that will save a
lot of time, money and energy from being spent on getting ice.

If you are going to carry loose stuff, carry it in some roughneck, or
Tupperware type of waterproof storage boxes. That way, you can sit stuff
out where it might get wet, and not have to worry. Some tents get wet
inside, and you can keep your clothes dry, in the dry boxes, too.

I have lots of electrical gadgets I need to keep charged, so I take a couple
gel cell 7 Ahr batteries made into a pack, to charge all of my stuff. You
can take those down to the shower, and with a capable charger, get a pretty
good charge on it, while you shower. I feel safer with a couple of
batteries and a charger sitting out, rather than a cell phone, airband
radio, music radio, digital camera, laptop, ect, all sitting outside the
shower, charging.
--
Jim in NC

[Mark Morissette]

> I have lots of electrical gadgets I need to keep charged, so I take a
> couple gel cell 7 Ahr batteries made into a pack, to charge all of my
> stuff.

Or you can just bring a small generator like we did, space and weight allowing.

The small 900w one that I brought served us well, only weighs about 40#, is compact...and had more then enough juice (with plenty to spare) to charge 2 laptops, 2 cellphones, a couple of digital camera batteries, and other assorted electronic goodies.

--
Mark
http://www.oshawapilot.ca
RPASEL, Canada

[john smith]

In article >,
Mark Morissette > wrote:

> Or you can just bring a small generator like we did, space and weight
> allowing.
> The small 900w one that I brought served us well, only weighs about 40#, is
> compact...and had more then enough juice (with plenty to spare) to charge 2
> laptops, 2 cellphones, a couple of digital camera batteries, and other
> assorted electronic goodies.

I almost bought a Honda 1000 at the show. At 29 pounds, I had to think
about it, though.
Special pricing of $600 made it attractive.
They even offered to deliver it to my North 40 campsite!

[john smith]

In article >,
Mark Morissette wrote:
> I also brought a small portable-style BBQ that provided for many meals, as
> well as a good propane lantern that provided evening lighting, and a "table
> in a bag" (fold up style) that although wasn't much bigger then a camp chair
> bag, provided alot of usefull off-the-ground workspace for cooking, gear,
> etc.

Be very careful with stoves and lanterns.
The grass at AirVenture is usually very dry and will catch fire easily
(don't ask about the dead grass melted into the sole of my tennies!)
If you do not take a stable table to place the stove on, take a large
cookie sheet with a lip and set the stove on the cookie sheet, lip up.
The cookie sheet should be large enough to set the stove inside the lip.

[[email protected]]

Morgans > wrote:
> "john smith" > wrote
>> Also, purchase extra guy line. Once you get your tent set up as per the
>> directions, use the extra pegs and guys at each attach point on the rain
>> fly.

Depending on the layout of the campsite, it might also be a good idea to
tie some ribbons onto the guy lines for visibility. The hardware store
sells wide yellow tape with "CAUTION" printed on it and narrow pink tape
with no printing; cutting some 1' (30cm) pieces and tying one or two onto
each guy line helps keep people from tripping over them.

> Optional protection for the Styrofoam can be light plywood (is any of
> it really light?) or a roll of duct tape covering the foam.

I *like* this idea. Some of the foam insulation board has a foil facing
on one side, which won't provide too much protection from dents but will
help keep your pimp-my-cooler from shedding little foam spheres all over
the place.

> If you are going to carry loose stuff, carry it in some roughneck, or
> Tupperware type of waterproof storage boxes.

In the US, Home Depot is having a sale on storage stuff; some of it
doesn't appear to be that cheap to me, but the shoebox-sized containers
are $1.29 each right now.

Don't forget a roll of duct tape. Every air mattress has as its goal in
life to spring a leak.

> I have lots of electrical gadgets I need to keep charged, so I take a
> couple gel cell 7 Ahr batteries made into a pack, to charge all of my
> stuff.

I've done this before and it works well. That particular size is about
$15-$20 each at your local electronics distributor (*NOT* Radio Shack)
or from a mail-order place like Mouser or Digi-Key. That size comes
with both 3/16" and 1/4" push-on terminals; get the 1/4" terminals if
you can as the mating connectors are much easier to find. Put a
reasonable automotive fuse of 10 to 20 A on the output of the battery.

To charge them, the best way is to use a 120 V charger that is made for
it. Charging them from a 12 V vehicle electrical system also works; put
a diode rated at least 3 A and 50 PIV (1N5400 series) between the
vehicle and the gel-cell to keep the gel-cell from discharging into the
vehicle when the engine is at idle or shut down. Clearly it's probably
a bad idea to charge them this way while you're camping next to the
plane, but hooking them up for the flight to the campsite will get a
pretty good charge into them by the time you get there.

If you want to buy one all made up, this is basically what those "jump
starter in a box" things are. If you don't plan to use the jump-start
function, you could remove the heavy cables and save a little weight.

One advantage to the batteries over the motor-generator (besides the
obvious one of total silence) is that if you stow the batteries in an
accessible spot in the plane, and your electrical system quits, you
can plug the handheld air-band radio (and GPS if you have one) into
the batteries and keep on truckin'. I know the radio and GPS will
have their own batteries, but it does provide a backup and/or extended
run time. If you go someplace where shore power doesn't exist, a solar
cell will also let you charge the batteries during the day.

Matt Roberds

[john smith]

In article <c5xBg.15184$PO.7750@dukeread03>,
wrote:

> > If you are going to carry loose stuff, carry it in some roughneck, or
> > Tupperware type of waterproof storage boxes.

The first thing I did was measure the baggage door on the airplane to
see what the biggest box I could purchase was. I then went out and
bought the clear ones with the interlocking lids (15 gallon?).

[Mark Morissette]

john smith wrote:

> Be very careful with stoves and lanterns.
> The grass at AirVenture is usually very dry and will catch fire easily
> (don't ask about the dead grass melted into the sole of my tennies!)
> If you do not take a stable table to place the stove on, take a large
> cookie sheet with a lip and set the stove on the cookie sheet, lip up.
> The cookie sheet should be large enough to set the stove inside the lip.

Agreed... We had brought a fold-up table that I used for cooking on
(and storing other stuff up off the ground) and that solved that issue.

When we arrived on Sunday everything was indeed tinder dry...but by the
latter half of the week after all the rain, that situation did a full
reversal.

Point indeed taken, though - a good pointer for anyone using anything
with a flame in dry conditions, regardless of where you are.

[Newps]

> john smith wrote:
>
>> Be very careful with stoves and lanterns.
>> The grass at AirVenture is usually very dry

It rains about every 15 minutesat OSH and you think the grass there is
very dry? There's no figures for OSH but Milwaukee has had 8.6 inches
of rain since June 1st. Here in Billings, less than three quarters of
an inch. If it was really dry there you wouldn't be allowed to use a
lantern that burns anything.

[john smith]

In article >,
Newps > wrote:

> > john smith wrote:
> >
> >> Be very careful with stoves and lanterns.
> >> The grass at AirVenture is usually very dry
>
> It rains about every 15 minutesat OSH and you think the grass there is
> very dry? There's no figures for OSH but Milwaukee has had 8.6 inches
> of rain since June 1st. Here in Billings, less than three quarters of
> an inch. If it was really dry there you wouldn't be allowed to use a
> lantern that burns anything.

You know better than that.
This thread is directed at the first time AirVenturer, we want them to
have the propper gear and camp safely.

[Peter R.]

john smith > wrote:

> Will you be camping by yourself or with others?

Probably one other person although I am looking for a bigger tent to
accommodate my family of five (or at least my three boys when they are old
enough to be able to join me).

> This year I went by myself. The only things I used were:
> - two-man tent

A lot of excellent suggestions about tent types, but no recommendations of
actual tent brands that are both strong and waterproof.

What tent brands work at OSH and what brands should I avoid?

--
Peter

[john smith]

> A lot of excellent suggestions about tent types, but no recommendations of
> actual tent brands that are both strong and waterproof.
> What tent brands work at OSH and what brands should I avoid?

For the answer to that question, you will get many answers based on
different experiences.
Personally, I am a backpacker, so the brands I know are the higher
priced ones that I know will hold up to whatever I can experience.
Others will tell you WalMart works for them.
If you look at the pictures of the AirVenture, you will see many styles.
You will also want to consider whether you want everyone in the same
tent or kids in one and adults in another.

Criteria for helping you determine what to look for:
- number of people
- shape and size of tent
- materials of tent components
- quality of workmanship and design
- weight
- price

I shop for camping gear online and at local stores and always wait until
the product I desire is onsale. You can save anywhere from 30-80% off
the original price if you are patient. Now is the ideal time to start
watching for three-season* tents to go on sale as many vendors are
starting to place their spring and summer merchandise on clearance.
The following online sites cater to backpackers:
campmor.com (hot deals, web bargins)
rei.com (online outlet store)
sierratradingpost.com (closeouts, bargin barn, web exclusives)
northernmountain.com (killer deals)

Others, such as Eddie Bauer and LL Bean are more geared toward the
recreational campers and Cabellas the hunters.

As to a single manufacturere that I would recommend for a good line of
products and reasonable quality, check out Eureka tents. They also
produce many OEM models for various stores.

The two websites I check daily are campmor and rei.
If you have a child in boy scouts there are some good deals available
from some manufacturers.

[Peter R.]

john smith > wrote:

> As to a single manufacturere that I would recommend for a good line of
> products and reasonable quality, check out Eureka tents. They also
> produce many OEM models for various stores.

Thanks, John. I would prefer not to make the mistake of purchasing a tent
that is not fit for what appears to be pretty common weather at OSH every
year.

--
Peter

[Dan Luke]

"Peter R." wrote:

>
> What tent brands work at OSH

http://www.eurekatent.com/equinox.asp

[Peter R.]

Dan Luke > wrote:

> "Peter R." wrote:
>
>>
>> What tent brands work at OSH
>
> http://www.eurekatent.com/equinox.asp

Excellent. Thanks, Dan.
--
Peter

[john smith]

> > What tent brands work at OSH

> http://www.eurekatent.com/equinox.asp

That will work as long as you remember to point the opening to the east.
My preference is for a full length fly with a vestibule to shelter the
tent opening. This will give you someplace to put your shoes outside the
tent but protected from the elements. Also helps keep the tent clean by
not tracking dirt and mud into the tent.

[john smith]

In article >,
"Peter R." > wrote:

> john smith > wrote:
>
> > As to a single manufacturere that I would recommend for a good line of
> > products and reasonable quality, check out Eureka tents. They also
> > produce many OEM models for various stores.
>
> Thanks, John. I would prefer not to make the mistake of purchasing a tent
> that is not fit for what appears to be pretty common weather at OSH every
> year.

Peter, are you in the New Jersey area, you may want to visit the Campmor
store. That will enable you to see and compare different tents. Take the
kids, they'll love it!

* Store location:
810 Route 17 north, Paramus, New Jersey
* Customer service: 1-800-525-4784
Mon-Fri 8:30am - 9:30pm,
Sat 8:30am - 6:00pm
* Website: Campmor.com

[Peter R.]

john smith > wrote:

> Peter, are you in the New Jersey area, you may want to visit the Campmor
> store. That will enable you to see and compare different tents. Take the
> kids, they'll love it!

I would have to fly down, as my home airport is up in Syracuse, NY. :)
Thanks for the suggestion.

--
Peter

[Peter R.]

john smith > wrote:

> Will you be camping by yourself or with others?

Hey, John, are camping and/or parking reservations required at OSH? If so,
when do they begin taking them?


--
Peter

[Longworth[_1_]]

Peter R. wrote:
> What tent brands work at OSH and what brands should I avoid?

Peter,
I paid $24 for a 3-person dome tent on sale with free shipping from
amazon.com last fall

http://makeashorterlink.com/?R2381668D

The only thing we did was to use the heavier duty tent stakes (which
came with our 7-person family tent) at Oskosh. It was very easy to
setup, take down and repack. It rained every night (quite heavily on
Tuesday - from the 'uncertain weather' storm cloud which you commented
on my Oshkosh pic links) while we were there but we stayed completely
dry.

Since it was our first time of using the tent, I did not know
whether the tent would hold up against potential strong winds and heavy
rain so I rolled up the sleeping bags and moved everything but the
thermarest sleeping pads inside the plane.while we were away during
the day time.

If you have a high-winged plane, you can pitch the tent under the
wing. I saw several people putting a tarp over the wing (tying it down
with some ropes and tent stakes) thus further rainproofing the tent
from both sides. This is something that we will definitely adopt in our
next camping trip this coming weekend at the Cardinal flyin at Mt
Washington Regional Airport (HIE), Whitefield, NH. Bruce Hutchings,
the airport manager had just emailed me telling us that we could either
camp with our plane in the field or in a nearby campsite.

Hai Longworth

[john smith]

> Hey, John, are camping and/or parking reservations required at OSH? If so,
> when do they begin taking them?

The only reservations are for IFR arrival slots.
See the NOTAM for the first day one can reserve and IFR arrival slot and
procedures.
As for camping resevations, there are none. It is first come, first
serve. Although the ATIS was broadcasting that the field was full this
year, there were plenty of camping spaces in the North 40 as people were
leaving all day.

If you are going late and you have friends arriving early, you can have
them "reserve" a space next to them by having them pay for your camping
permit when they register. They can then tape off a space for you and
mark it with your camping permit. You will have to contact them prior to
arrival and find out what row your space is in so you can tell the
volunteer flagpeople where you are going and why.

[john smith]

In article . com>,
"Longworth" > wrote:

> If you have a high-winged plane, you can pitch the tent under the
> wing. I saw several people putting a tarp over the wing (tying it down
> with some ropes and tent stakes) thus further rainproofing the tent
> from both sides. This is something that we will definitely adopt in our
> next camping trip this coming weekend at the Cardinal flyin at Mt
> Washington Regional Airport (HIE), Whitefield, NH. Bruce Hutchings,
> the airport manager had just emailed me telling us that we could either
> camp with our plane in the field or in a nearby campsite.

You may want to rethink that with that nice new paint job on your
Cardinal. The wind blowing the tarp and airplane will cause wear spots
through the paint on your wings.

[Longworth[_1_]]

john smith wrote:
> You may want to rethink that with that nice new paint job on your
> Cardinal. The wind blowing the tarp and airplane will cause wear spots
> through the paint on your wings.

Hmm, this may be the case if the metal grommets come into contact
with the paint. I'd think that the plastic tarp would be soft enough
not to inflict any damages. If we are to use the tarp, I'd want to
leave it on only when we are around to make sure that the winds were
not too strong to cause lots of flapping.

Hai Longworth

[Longworth[_1_]]

Ron Natalie wrote:
> We camp relatively light. Tent, air mattress, sleeping bags, towels
> (and soap and whatever else you'll need for the showers), couple of
> folding chairs, small apparatus for making coffee in the morning,
> and a case of wine, four glasses and a corkscrew.

Ron,
We also find the espresso maker indispensable for camping. I can
not see standing in line for a cup of lukewarm dishwater or making do
with some awful instant coffee in the morning. For this camping trip,
we drew the line at bringing some wine bottles and real glasses but had
done so in the past. One year, I packed a very good bottle of wine, 4
glasses, a corkscrew, some cheeses, crackers and fruits in a backpack
and hiked up a mountain with some friends. We had a fabulous picnic at
the summit. It was definitely worth the hassle.
By the way, what do you use for a camp stove. We have used a
two-burner liquid fuel Coleman stove for years but it is kind of bulky
and heavy for a plane. I'm thinking of replacing it with a
single-burner multi fuel backpacking stove and will have to do some
reseach.

Hai Longworth

[Peter R.]

Ron Natalie > wrote:

> small apparatus for making coffee in the morning,

Is this a percolator pot or some powered brewer?

What am I saying... I have a pretty good French press pot that makes a
smooth brew so all I need would be to be able to boil water.


--
Peter

[Dan Luke]

"Longworth" wrote:

> I'd think that the plastic tarp would be soft enough
> not to inflict any damages.

It won't if you can make certain that no dust or grit gets under the it. At
OSH, that would be tough. Once it's worn a couple of grooves in your paint,
it's game over.

--
Dan
C-172RG at BFM

[Dan Luke]

"...gets under the *edges*"

[Morgans[_3_]]

"Longworth" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> john smith wrote:
> > You may want to rethink that with that nice new paint job on your
> > Cardinal. The wind blowing the tarp and airplane will cause wear spots
> > through the paint on your wings.
>
> Hmm, this may be the case if the metal grommets come into contact
> with the paint. I'd think that the plastic tarp would be soft enough
> not to inflict any damages. If we are to use the tarp, I'd want to
> leave it on only when we are around to make sure that the winds were
> not too strong to cause lots of flapping.

La y a blanket or beach towels under the plastic.
--
Jim in NC

[Longworth[_1_]]

Dan Luke wrote:

>
> It won't if you can make certain that no dust or grit gets under the it. At
> OSH, that would be tough. Once it's worn a couple of grooves in your paint,
> it's game over.

Dan,
When it comes to camping at Oshkosh or even camping with your plane,
we are complete newbies. I just thought that it was a cool idea to use
the tarp over the wing to shield the tent. You are right that when
dirt or grit gets under the tarp, paint damages are certain.

Thanks.

Hai Longworth

[john smith]

In article om>,
"Longworth" > wrote:

> I'm thinking of replacing it with a
> single-burner multi fuel backpacking stove and will have to do some
> reseach.

http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?catalogI
d=40000000226&storeId=226&categoryId=245&langId=-1&parent_category_rn=226

[john smith]

In article
>,
john smith > wrote:

> In article om>,
> "Longworth" > wrote:
>
> > I'm thinking of replacing it with a
> > single-burner multi fuel backpacking stove and will have to do some
> > reseach.

Look here for ideas
http://www.backpackgeartest.org/reviews/

[Dan Luke]

"Longworth" wrote:

> When it comes to camping at Oshkosh or even camping with your plane,
> we are complete newbies. I just thought that it was a cool idea to use
> the tarp over the wing to shield the tent.

It is a cool idea. It would have kept the rain off my buddy's tent and saved
the last two days of our trip.


> You are right that when
> dirt or grit gets under the tarp, paint damages are certain.

.... 's all I'm sayin'.

[[email protected]]

> "Longworth" wrote:

> > I'd think that the plastic tarp would be soft enough
> > not to inflict any damages.

Even if it does not "wear" the paint... there is a different
problem.

Note that even a tied-down airplane "rocks" in the wind.
All night, the tarp moves against the wing... creak, creak,
creak. I did the over-the-wing ONCE... never again!
Even if the noise does not bother you... it may bother your
neighbors, who will ensure that your tarp-over-the-wing
blows away in the next wind storm. :-)

Best regards,

Jer/ "Flight instruction and mountain flying are my vocations!"
--
Jer/ (Slash) Eberhard, Mountain Flying Aviation, LTD, Ft Collins, CO
CELL 970 231-6325 EMAIL jer<at>frii.com http://users.frii.com/jer/
C-206 N9513G, CFII Airplane&Glider FAA-DEN Aviation Safety Counselor
CAP-CO Mission&Aircraft CheckPilot BM218 HAM N0FZD 240 Young Eagles!

[.Blueskies.]

> wrote in message ...
:> "Longworth" wrote:
:
: > > I'd think that the plastic tarp would be soft enough
: > > not to inflict any damages.
:
: Even if it does not "wear" the paint... there is a different
: problem.
:
: Note that even a tied-down airplane "rocks" in the wind.
: All night, the tarp moves against the wing... creak, creak,
: creak. I did the over-the-wing ONCE... never again!
: Even if the noise does not bother you... it may bother your
: neighbors, who will ensure that your tarp-over-the-wing
: blows away in the next wind storm. :-)
:
: Best regards,
:
: Jer/ "Flight instruction and mountain flying are my vocations!"
: --
:


I agree with that one. This was my first year flyin camping, and I did the over the wing tamp thing, and then got up at
3 in the morning and took it all down. Flapping in the breeze all night long. Didn't put it back up and was dumped on
Tuesday night, a little rain in the corners but the tent held...

[.Blueskies.]

"Longworth" > wrote in message ups.com...
:
: Ron Natalie wrote:
: > We camp relatively light. Tent, air mattress, sleeping bags, towels
: > (and soap and whatever else you'll need for the showers), couple of
: > folding chairs, small apparatus for making coffee in the morning,
: > and a case of wine, four glasses and a corkscrew.
:
: Ron,
: We also find the espresso maker indispensable for camping. I can
: not see standing in line for a cup of lukewarm dishwater or making do
: with some awful instant coffee in the morning. For this camping trip,
: we drew the line at bringing some wine bottles and real glasses but had
: done so in the past. One year, I packed a very good bottle of wine, 4
: glasses, a corkscrew, some cheeses, crackers and fruits in a backpack
: and hiked up a mountain with some friends. We had a fabulous picnic at
: the summit. It was definitely worth the hassle.
: By the way, what do you use for a camp stove. We have used a
: two-burner liquid fuel Coleman stove for years but it is kind of bulky
: and heavy for a plane. I'm thinking of replacing it with a
: single-burner multi fuel backpacking stove and will have to do some
: reseach.
:
: Hai Longworth
:


We bought a 'JetBoil' and it is great! Hot water for instant coffee in just
about as long as it takes me to type this out...

http://www.jetboil.com/

We bought the group cooking system and the personal cooking system...

[Newps]

>
>
>> If you have a high-winged plane, you can pitch the tent under the
>>wing. I saw several people putting a tarp over the wing (tying it down
>>with some ropes and tent stakes) thus further rainproofing the tent
>>from both sides. This is something that we will definitely adopt in our
>>next camping trip this coming weekend at the Cardinal flyin at Mt
>>Washington Regional Airport (HIE), Whitefield, NH. Bruce Hutchings,
>>the airport manager had just emailed me telling us that we could either
>>camp with our plane in the field or in a nearby campsite.

Does your tent fit under the wing, especially a Cardinal which sits
lower to the ground? I long ago got a tent with stand up head room.

[john smith]

> john,
> The link does not work, how about using make a shorter link?

Okay, try this one...

http://makeashorterlink.com/?D43E3168D

> What do you think of MSR Simmerlite? The MSR Dragonfly which can
> burn leaded gas (avgas?), diesel, kerosene etc. sounds great but is is
> noisy and heavy.

I bought a Simmerlight two years ago and love it.
It packs up small and I can get two-and-a-half days use from a 1/2-liter
SIGG bottle of white gas when cooking for two. One thing I added to my
stove kit is an eyedropper to dispense the priming fuel. This is easier
and safer to control than pumping the bottle and opening the valve.
Maybe as noisy as one of the burners on your current stove. You will
want to carry a windscreen.

MSR sells a really heavy gauge aluminum foil reuseable windscreen, or
you can make your own from the heavy gauge aluminum foil you buy at the
grocery store.

I also have the Trilium base to attach to the bottom of the Simmerlight.
This makes it very stable with a two-liter pot and it folds up to a
compact form.

I think I have six stoves.
- a SVEA 123 that is 30 years old and still going strong
- an MSR GK that is 25 years old and is terrific for winter camping
- an MSR Simmerlite
- an ESBIT Pocket stove in my survival kit
- a COLEMAN single burner, white gas stove; about four years old, old
style, got it for my son for Boy Scouts, works well... good high heat
and simmer
- a big ??-thousand BTU propane stove with a 10-pound travel tank that
lasts a week at OSH, with enough for another couple days left in the
tank.
I have been backpacking for 35 years, so I have quite a collection of
gear. The past six years I have been updating to lightweight. I have cut
my load down to 25-30 pounds (less food and water) for a five-day outing.

[john smith]

RE: Tarp over the wing...

Did it the first time. When I saw how much damage it was doing I decided
on another option I have been using since.
EUREKA sells an assortment of poles. I purchased two sets of heavy
adjustable ones and ridgepoles to go between them.
The first year I also purchased a cheap blue tarp. The first wind pulled
grommets out. The second wind tore the edging from the tarp. It went in
the dumpster at OSH.
The following year I paid the premium for the heavy duty silver/brown
tarp (24'x12'). I have had it the last five years. I do take it down
when I leave camp in the morning and use it to cover the other gear in
case it rains.
I will find some pictures to post.

[Longworth[_1_]]

Newps wrote:
>
> Does your tent fit under the wing, especially a Cardinal which sits
> lower to the ground? I long ago got a tent with stand up head room.

Our new tent is just a small 3 person dome tent so it fits easily
under the Cardinal wings as you can see in my Oshkosh pictures

http://makeashorterlink.com/?U12A2148D
http://makeashorterlink.com/?E13A6448D

Our old tent long ago also had standup head room. It was a heavy
duty tent with aluminum poles which had lasted many years but it took
some time to fit all the pole sections together and set up the tent.
The newer dome-type tent with fiberglass poles are much lighter and
easier to setup. The lower profile is also less susceptible to being
blown over by strong winds. We don't really miss the head room that
much.

Hai Longworth

[Kyle Boatright]

"Peter R." > wrote in message
...
> john smith > wrote:
>
>> Will you be camping by yourself or with others?
>
> Probably one other person although I am looking for a bigger tent to
> accommodate my family of five (or at least my three boys when they are old
> enough to be able to join me).
>
>> This year I went by myself. The only things I used were:
>> - two-man tent
>
> A lot of excellent suggestions about tent types, but no recommendations of
> actual tent brands that are both strong and waterproof.
>
> What tent brands work at OSH and what brands should I avoid?
>
> --
> Peter

One suggestion is to get Outside Magazine's gear review edition. I seem to
remember that it comes out in the spring. It gives you a common language to
speak with the guy or gal at the outdoor store and gives you a real
education on key things to look for in whatever apparatus you're buying
(tent, stove, mattress, sleeping bag, water filter, etc..). Also, the issue
has a review of many of the mid-upper end camping/hiking products and could
help you refine your search by comparing size, cost, weight, and other key
variables that impact your choice.

Your local library probably carries Outside, so you should be able to find
the most recent gear guide in the archives.

KB

[john smith]

> One suggestion is to get Outside Magazine's gear review edition. I seem to
> remember that it comes out in the spring. It gives you a common language to
> speak with the guy or gal at the outdoor store and gives you a real
> education on key things to look for in whatever apparatus you're buying
> (tent, stove, mattress, sleeping bag, water filter, etc..). Also, the issue
> has a review of many of the mid-upper end camping/hiking products and could
> help you refine your search by comparing size, cost, weight, and other key
> variables that impact your choice.
> Your local library probably carries Outside, so you should be able to find
> the most recent gear guide in the archives.

Kyle, don't you mean BACKPACKER magazine?
I thought OUTSIDE changed it's format several years ago to more of a
travelog, fluff piece, yuppie monthly?

The link below is a good source for unbiased, real world use by ordinary
campers with a variety of experience.

http://www.backpackgeartest.org/reviews/

[RST Engineering]

>
> The only thing that's really dumb (and they all seem to have this, now)
> is the stupid "cooking port" that is purportedly the "chimney" for your
> cooking stove -- as if anyone would be dumb enough to use an open flame
> inside a nylon tent. The things must be cinched closed in bad weather,
> and they invariably leak in heavy rain. Mary is going to cut ours off
> and stitch it shut, before next OSH.

It is actually not that dumb, and the native americans used it for millenia
inside of very flammable animal skin tents. It takes a hell of a lot of
heat to set nylon on fire and the capability of cooking inside the tent is
something that you really ought to consider.
>
> I agree with what everyone says about stakes. I now use ONLY 10-inch
> landscaping nails to stake out my tent. It'll take a tornado to rip
> them out.

Ten inch, my sweet hiney. Eighteen inch bridge spikes are the order of the
day.


> 11. Mail your Laundry Home. After a few days in tropical heat, you'll
> have gone through an amazing amount of laundry. Don't worry -- haul it
> to the UPS store, located right at show center, and mail the lot of it
> home. This will lighten your load, and allow you to purchase more
> T-shirts and doo-dads while you're there!


The USPS Postal store will ship it for half the price of UPS and they, too,
have a trailer on the field.

Jim

[Montblack[_1_]]

("RST Engineering" wrote)
> The USPS Postal store will ship it for half the price of UPS and they,
> too, have a trailer on the field.


24 lbs worth of OSH clothes:
"Stuffed" into a grocery store moving box (apple box)

Minneapolis to Iowa City ...by UPS
300 road miles
210 nm by air
$11.60 + $0.55 Fuel Surcharge = $12.15

Package arrived the next day.

vs.

http://makeashorterlink.com/?N1433478D
USPS - Priority Mail ($10.00)
"OSH" 54902 to IOW 52246 is estimated at 2 Days.

12 lbs @ 28"x14"x14" registers ($10.00) for 2 day Priority Mail.

If the box weighs 2 lbs, that equals a $1.00/pound to mail "things" from OSH
back to Iowa City.


Montblack

[Montblack[_1_]]

("Montblack" wrote)
> http://makeashorterlink.com/?N1433478D
> USPS - Priority Mail ($10.00)
> "OSH" 54902 to IOW 52246 is estimated at 2 Days.
>
> 12 lbs @ 28"x14"x14" registers ($10.00) for 2 day Priority Mail.
>
> If the box weighs 2 lbs, that equals a $1.00/pound to mail "things" from
> OSH back to Iowa City.


I should have used 24 lbs, not 12 lbs, in the above link.

24 lbs OSH to IOW = (approx) $10, but that's a 3 day Parcel Post rate. Cost
is $16 for 2 day Priority service.


Montblack

[Kyle Boatright]

"john smith" > wrote in message
...
>> One suggestion is to get Outside Magazine's gear review edition. I seem
>> to
>> remember that it comes out in the spring. It gives you a common language
>> to
>> speak with the guy or gal at the outdoor store and gives you a real
>> education on key things to look for in whatever apparatus you're buying
>> (tent, stove, mattress, sleeping bag, water filter, etc..). Also, the
>> issue
>> has a review of many of the mid-upper end camping/hiking products and
>> could
>> help you refine your search by comparing size, cost, weight, and other
>> key
>> variables that impact your choice.
>> Your local library probably carries Outside, so you should be able to
>> find
>> the most recent gear guide in the archives.
>
> Kyle, don't you mean BACKPACKER magazine?
> I thought OUTSIDE changed it's format several years ago to more of a
> travelog, fluff piece, yuppie monthly?
>
> The link below is a good source for unbiased, real world use by ordinary
> campers with a variety of experience.
>
> http://www.backpackgeartest.org/reviews/

Yep, Backpacker. Sometimes there is a disconnect beween the brain and the
fingers.

KB

[Peter R.]

Jay Honeck > wrote:

> Hey Peter -- I'm late to this thread, but here are a few tips we've
> picked up from decades of camping:

Jay, thank you for taking the time to type out that excellent list. You
and the others have really provided some excellent advice.

<snip>
> I hope you're serious about coming next year -- it's truly a show that
> must be experienced. We're already planning for next year's OSH!

I am serious, which is why I want to start planning now. A small,
doomsday part of me conjured up this scenario that if fuel continues to
rise at its current pace there may someday be no more OSH, or at least in
the OSH that you regular attendees have experienced.

--
Peter

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, "Jay Honeck" > said:
>The only thing that's really dumb (and they all seem to have this, now)
>is the stupid "cooking port" that is purportedly the "chimney" for your
>cooking stove -- as if anyone would be dumb enough to use an open flame
>inside a nylon tent. The things must be cinched closed in bad weather,
>and they invariably leak in heavy rain. Mary is going to cut ours off
>and stitch it shut, before next OSH.

When I was a backpacker, I used those "cooking ports" as a way to reach
outside to tend to the stove that was entirely outside the tent when I was
winter camping. In summer, I just sat in the doorway with the stove
outside.


--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
Sometimes, when a luser makes an unreasonable demand, the best thing
to do is let them have exactly what they ask for.
-- Joe Zeff

[Jay Honeck]

> I am serious, which is why I want to start planning now. A small,
> doomsday part of me conjured up this scenario that if fuel continues to
> rise at its current pace there may someday be no more OSH, or at least in
> the OSH that you regular attendees have experienced.

I've had those same thoughts, these last few days. With Prudhoe Bay
being shut down, and oil pushing $80 per barrel, and the Middle East
continuing to melt down, I just don't see an end to the price rise any
time soon.

Given the dearth of flying both before and since OSH (at least as
viewed in our neck of the woods), I fully understand your fear.
Although it was heartening to see so many people flying to OSH, it
seems as if that was everybody's "big trip" of the year, and now
they've parked the plane back in the hangar again.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Peter R.]

Kyle Boatright > wrote:

>> http://www.backpackgeartest.org/reviews/
>
> Yep, Backpacker. Sometimes there is a disconnect beween the brain and the
> fingers.

Bookmarked. Thanks!

--
Peter

[Greg B[_1_]]

"Peter R." > wrote in message
...

> What tent brands work at OSH and what brands should I avoid?

Miata makes a terrible tent to sleep in at Oshkosh! It kept me dry, but
isn't comfortable to sleep in. The Eureka tent worked a LOT better!

[Margy Natalie]

Longworth wrote:
> Ron Natalie wrote:
>
>>We camp relatively light. Tent, air mattress, sleeping bags, towels
>>(and soap and whatever else you'll need for the showers), couple of
>>folding chairs, small apparatus for making coffee in the morning,
>>and a case of wine, four glasses and a corkscrew.
>
>
> Ron,
> We also find the espresso maker indispensable for camping. I can
> not see standing in line for a cup of lukewarm dishwater or making do
> with some awful instant coffee in the morning. For this camping trip,
> we drew the line at bringing some wine bottles and real glasses but had
> done so in the past. One year, I packed a very good bottle of wine, 4
> glasses, a corkscrew, some cheeses, crackers and fruits in a backpack
> and hiked up a mountain with some friends. We had a fabulous picnic at
> the summit. It was definitely worth the hassle.
> By the way, what do you use for a camp stove. We have used a
> two-burner liquid fuel Coleman stove for years but it is kind of bulky
> and heavy for a plane. I'm thinking of replacing it with a
> single-burner multi fuel backpacking stove and will have to do some
> reseach.
>
> Hai Longworth
>
We gave up "real cooking" a while back. Ron bought a Jet Boil (I think
that's the brand" that boils a liter of water in 90 seconds. It's
rather handy. For "real cooking" we have a tiny, two burner, I bought
CHEAP at Walmart. It is very small, light and uses a small propane
bottle.

Margy

[Margy Natalie]

Peter R. wrote:
> Ron Natalie > wrote:
>
>
>>small apparatus for making coffee in the morning,
>
>
> Is this a percolator pot or some powered brewer?
>
> What am I saying... I have a pretty good French press pot that makes a
> smooth brew so all I need would be to be able to boil water.
>
>
We use a french press as well with the water boiled in a JetBoil (I
tThink that's the name). It boils a liter in 90 second.

Margy

[Margy Natalie]

..Blueskies. wrote:
> "Longworth" > wrote in message ups.com...
> :
> : Ron Natalie wrote:
> : > We camp relatively light. Tent, air mattress, sleeping bags, towels
> : > (and soap and whatever else you'll need for the showers), couple of
> : > folding chairs, small apparatus for making coffee in the morning,
> : > and a case of wine, four glasses and a corkscrew.
> :
> : Ron,
> : We also find the espresso maker indispensable for camping. I can
> : not see standing in line for a cup of lukewarm dishwater or making do
> : with some awful instant coffee in the morning. For this camping trip,
> : we drew the line at bringing some wine bottles and real glasses but had
> : done so in the past. One year, I packed a very good bottle of wine, 4
> : glasses, a corkscrew, some cheeses, crackers and fruits in a backpack
> : and hiked up a mountain with some friends. We had a fabulous picnic at
> : the summit. It was definitely worth the hassle.
> : By the way, what do you use for a camp stove. We have used a
> : two-burner liquid fuel Coleman stove for years but it is kind of bulky
> : and heavy for a plane. I'm thinking of replacing it with a
> : single-burner multi fuel backpacking stove and will have to do some
> : reseach.
> :
> : Hai Longworth
> :
>
>
> We bought a 'JetBoil' and it is great! Hot water for instant coffee in just
> about as long as it takes me to type this out...
>
> http://www.jetboil.com/
>
> We bought the group cooking system and the personal cooking system...
>
>
NOW YOU'VE DONE IT!! I had to go look at the group cooking system and
found the french press that fits the personal system and the extra
"cups", so now all we have to do is buy another cup and the two little
coffee presses and we won't have to pack the regular cups ....

Margy

[Peter R.]

Margy Natalie > wrote:

> NOW YOU'VE DONE IT!! I had to go look at the group cooking system and
> found the french press that fits the personal system and the extra
> "cups", so now all we have to do is buy another cup and the two little
> coffee presses and we won't have to pack the regular cups ....

I'm right behind you in line. :)

It's the perfect system for the coffee drinker.

--
Peter

[RST Engineering]

If a person drinks a liter of city water a day, at the end of a year they
have processed almost a kilogram of E. coli ("poop") through their system.

On the other hand, a person that drinks a liter of beer or wine, because of
the filtering and fermenting process, receives almost zero E. coli.

Do I need to belabor the point? {;-)


Jim



> We use a french press as well with the water boiled in a JetBoil (I tThink
> that's the name). It boils a liter in 90 second.

[Peter R.]

RST Engineering > wrote:

> If a person drinks a liter of city water a day, at the end of a year they
> have processed almost a kilogram of E. coli ("poop") through their system.
<snip>

Tap water for coffee brewing? Never!

--
Peter

[Mark Morissette]

> I almost bought a Honda 1000 at the show. At 29 pounds, I had to think
> about it, though.
> Special pricing of $600 made it attractive.
> They even offered to deliver it to my North 40 campsite!

One of the first grocery stores that we hit on the day we arrived was
the "Aldi" at the mall across from the North 40.

Although totally impractical due to the size of it, and overpowered for
any reasonable use that could be needed at Oshkosh, they had 6000 watt
(if I remember correctly) generators for $199.

I just about crapped myself, and if I had room to bring one home I would
have done so in a heartbeat if only to keep here at the house for
possible future blackouts/outages.

[.Blueskies.]

"Peter R." > wrote in message ...
: Margy Natalie > wrote:
:
: > NOW YOU'VE DONE IT!! I had to go look at the group cooking system and
: > found the french press that fits the personal system and the extra
: > "cups", so now all we have to do is buy another cup and the two little
: > coffee presses and we won't have to pack the regular cups ....
:
: I'm right behind you in line. :)
:
: It's the perfect system for the coffee drinker.
:
: --
: Peter

Absolutely right, this is a pretty amazing little machine. It does use those 'small threaded' propane tanks that cost a
little more than the big threaded ones, but it is hot fast...

[john smith]

In article >,
".Blueskies." > wrote:

> Absolutely right, this is a pretty amazing little machine. It does use those
> 'small threaded' propane tanks that cost a
> little more than the big threaded ones, but it is hot fast...

Make sure you get the right one for your needs.
They come with the following gas fills:
- propane
- butane
- isobutane/propane mix

[Mike Adams[_2_]]

Margy Natalie > wrote:

> We gave up "real cooking" a while back.

It's a bit of a thread diversion, but I wanted to comment on the lack of cooking in the North 40 this year.
We arrived on Sunday, set up camp, and then hiked over to PicNSave and filled our backpacks with
groceries and ate very well the rest of the week. The surprise was we hardly saw anyone else cooking in
our area. Did everyone walk across to Hardee's every night? Eat $4 hot dogs in the airshow? We ate
well, and not all that difficult. We used a 2 burner Coleman propane stove. Did we violate some rule we
were unaware of?

Mike

[Ron Natalie]

Mike Adams wrote:
> Margy Natalie > wrote:
>
>> We gave up "real cooking" a while back.
>
> It's a bit of a thread diversion, but I wanted to comment on the lack of cooking in the North 40 this year.

It's a bigger hike from the vintage aircraft area. We cooked the
first few years but in actuality between eating lunch out on the show
(or having volunteer mystery meat sandwiches) and for dinner we either
go off-site with friends or avail ourselves to some of the coop food
opportunities that our volunteer crowd does (one night someone makes
chili, one night spagetti, one night brats, one night sent out for
chicken, the volunteer pizza party is one night, etc...

[Margy Natalie]

Peter R. wrote:
> RST Engineering > wrote:
>
>
>>If a person drinks a liter of city water a day, at the end of a year they
>>have processed almost a kilogram of E. coli ("poop") through their system.
>
> <snip>
>
> Tap water for coffee brewing? Never!
>
Especially not Oshkosh field water. It's AWFUL! Back in the day when
we cooked a lot I would freeze gallon jugs of filtered water to use in
the cooler and drain off them as they melted. That worked quite well.
Now we just bring a few gallons of bottled water.

Margy

[john smith]

> > We gave up "real cooking" a while back.

> It's a bit of a thread diversion, but I wanted to comment on the lack of
> cooking in the North 40 this year.
> We arrived on Sunday, set up camp, and then hiked over to PicNSave and filled
> our backpacks with
> groceries and ate very well the rest of the week. The surprise was we hardly
> saw anyone else cooking in
> our area. Did everyone walk across to Hardee's every night? Eat $4 hot dogs
> in the airshow? We ate
> well, and not all that difficult. We used a 2 burner Coleman propane stove.
> Did we violate some rule we
> were unaware of?

What row were you parked in?

[Gig 601XL Builder]

"RST Engineering" > wrote in message
...
> If a person drinks a liter of city water a day, at the end of a year they
> have processed almost a kilogram of E. coli ("poop") through their system.
>
> On the other hand, a person that drinks a liter of beer or wine, because
> of the filtering and fermenting process, receives almost zero E. coli.
>
> Do I need to belabor the point? {;-)
>
>
> Jim
>

You are correct but I saw a study somewhere that basically said this was a
good thing and the current use of bottled water is leading to more severe
cases of E. coli poisoning.

The logic being the small amount we get in drinking water acts as a vaccine
and our systems build up immunity to it. With more and more people drinking
bottled water that immunity never develops and then the dose that wouldn't
have made us sick before puts us in the hospital.

[Mark Morissette]

> You are correct but I saw a study somewhere that basically said this was a
> good thing and the current use of bottled water is leading to more severe
> cases of E. coli poisoning.

I've heard the same...the other issue I have with bottled water is that
a great deal of it isn't fluoridated.

I have a niece who is about 10 years old and just discovered that her
teeth of a nightmare of small cavities. I put allot of blame on the
fact that her parents are obsessive about not drinking tapwater, but
strictly the reverse osmosis "pure" water from their cooler. They even
send it with her bottled to school.

Anyhow, rather OT..but I'll agree that the tapwater at Osh is indeed
rather crappy...but I drank it all week and had no ill effects, so other
then taste it was apparently safe.

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, Mark Morissette > said:
>Anyhow, rather OT..but I'll agree that the tapwater at Osh is indeed
>rather crappy...but I drank it all week and had no ill effects, so other
>then taste it was apparently safe.

There seemed to be two distinctive water tastes, one much more chemically
than the other. I never did get a good idea of which ones tasted good,
but I think the one down near the vintage camp ground was one of them.
The water at the shower station near the camp store in Camp Scholler was
one of the bad ones.

--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
The implication of the camel on the front of the Perl book is, I think, quite
clear: Perl programmers permanently have the hump and are predisposed towards
spitting. -- Jonathan Page

[Peter R.]

Paul Tomblin > wrote:

> The water at the shower station near the camp store in Camp Scholler was
> one of the bad ones.

In discussing the showers at OSH, what are those accommodations like for
the campers? What are the busy times and what would a typical wait for a
shower be?

--
Peter

[Jay Honeck]

> >Anyhow, rather OT..but I'll agree that the tapwater at Osh is indeed
> >rather crappy...but I drank it all week and had no ill effects, so other
> >then taste it was apparently safe.

I'm surprised that I would have to say this, but we've consumed the
water at OSH for 24 years without any trouble at all.

This year, for the first time, we used bottled water to brew coffee &
tea -- but that was only because someone donated a CASE of bottled
water to our campsite at some point during the week. This was a case
of convenience (hey, it was there), not taste, as the water at OSH is
really quite excellent -- as long as you avoid the water fountains in
the South 40, which use water apparently from iron-laden wells. The
water fountains at the showers in the North 40 are (I believe) city
water, and quite good.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Margy Natalie]

Peter R. wrote:
> Paul Tomblin > wrote:
>
>
>>The water at the shower station near the camp store in Camp Scholler was
>>one of the bad ones.
>
>
> In discussing the showers at OSH, what are those accommodations like for
> the campers? What are the busy times and what would a typical wait for a
> shower be?
>
The "Old" or "permanant" showers are block buildings with kitchen
sprayers. I find them a bit lacking. The portable showers (trailers)
have larger sprayers and I like them much more. The women's showers
rarely have a line :-). The airshow is a good time to shower. about 10
am seems to be a good time also.

Margy

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, "Peter R." > said:
>Paul Tomblin > wrote:
>> The water at the shower station near the camp store in Camp Scholler was
>> one of the bad ones.
>
>In discussing the showers at OSH, what are those accommodations like for
>the campers? What are the busy times and what would a typical wait for a
>shower be?

I usually showered sometime between 8 and 10am, and while they were
crowded I never had to wait for a shower stall. As already stated, the
showers consist of one of those kitchen sink sprayers in a square of
shower curtain. It's not luxurious, but it gets the job done. The water
was always adequately hot (which is good because there is no temperature
control).


--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
You can drag any rat out of the sewer and teach it to get some work done in
Perl, but you cannot teach it serious programming.
-- Erik Naggum

[Peter R.]

Paul Tomblin > wrote:

> As already stated, the
> showers consist of one of those kitchen sink sprayers in a square of
> shower curtain. It's not luxurious, but it gets the job done. The water
> was always adequately hot (which is good because there is no temperature
> control).

Thanks, Paul and Margy.

--
Peter

[Montblack[_1_]]

("Peter R." wrote)
> In discussing the showers at OSH, what are those accommodations like for
> the campers? What are the busy times and what would a typical wait for a
> shower be?


I showered at night 10pm. No lines, no fuss.

Sweat, sunscreen, sweat, bug juice (not a problem the past few years),
sweat, and more sunscreen. Helps me sleep at night without all that grime
covering me. Also, it sometimes cools you down a notch showering at night.

In the AM, I my brush teeth, put on clean clothes, my Tilly hat, and head
out for another day of sweat and sunscreen.


Montblack

[ET]

Margy Natalie > wrote in
m:

> Peter R. wrote:
>> Paul Tomblin > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>The water at the shower station near the camp store in Camp Scholler
>>>was one of the bad ones.
>>
>>
>> In discussing the showers at OSH, what are those accommodations like
>> for the campers? What are the busy times and what would a typical
>> wait for a shower be?
>>
> The "Old" or "permanant" showers are block buildings with kitchen
> sprayers. I find them a bit lacking. The portable showers (trailers)
> have larger sprayers and I like them much more. The women's showers
> rarely have a line :-). The airshow is a good time to shower. about
> 10 am seems to be a good time also.
>
> Margy


The trailer shower in the far end of the north 40 (next to the Hilton)
was flooded with over an inch of water. Not sure if it was the shower
doors leaking or a real live water leak, but that was no fun sloshing
through the "lake". I doubt that particular trailer will last to next
year...

--
-- ET >:-)

"A common mistake people make when trying to design something
completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete
fools."---- Douglas Adams

[Margy Natalie]

ET wrote:
> Margy Natalie > wrote in
> m:
>
>
>>Peter R. wrote:
>>
>>>Paul Tomblin > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>The water at the shower station near the camp store in Camp Scholler
>>>>was one of the bad ones.
>>>
>>>
>>>In discussing the showers at OSH, what are those accommodations like
>>>for the campers? What are the busy times and what would a typical
>>>wait for a shower be?
>>>
>>
>>The "Old" or "permanant" showers are block buildings with kitchen
>>sprayers. I find them a bit lacking. The portable showers (trailers)
>>have larger sprayers and I like them much more. The women's showers
>>rarely have a line :-). The airshow is a good time to shower. about
>>10 am seems to be a good time also.
>>
>>Margy
>
>
>
> The trailer shower in the far end of the north 40 (next to the Hilton)
> was flooded with over an inch of water. Not sure if it was the shower
> doors leaking or a real live water leak, but that was no fun sloshing
> through the "lake". I doubt that particular trailer will last to next
> year...
>
The ones in Vintage have full time attendents with buckets and wet-vacs.
The doors leak and they are used constantly for hours on end. The
person cleaning the women's shower this year was particularly good at
keeping it fairly dry.

Margy

[Montblack[_1_]]

("Margy Natalie" wrote)
> The ones in Vintage have full time attendents with buckets and wet-vacs.
> The doors leak and they are used constantly for hours on end. The person
> cleaning the women's shower this year was particularly good at keeping it
> fairly dry.


The one south of the ultralights, where the seaplane bus picks you up, was
nice. I checked it out on day.

The design was odd though.

Two doors were on either end of the trailer, along one wall. Connecting the
doors was a large hallway that ran the length of the trailer, along the
outside wall. In the middle of the space (facing the other outside wall)
were the showers - maybe four stalls on each side of a center entrance, off
the hallway. The other long wall of the trailer had benches to dry off and
get dressed.

Here's my thought: Why not showers on the two "outside" walls? The wide
empty hallway running the length of the trailer, on one outside wall, was
much wasted space, IMHO.

Anyway, that was my first impression of the shower trailer. Clean, and
puzzling. <g>


Montblack

[.Blueskies.]

"john smith" > wrote in message
...
: In article >,
: ".Blueskies." > wrote:
:
: > Absolutely right, this is a pretty amazing little machine. It does use those
: > 'small threaded' propane tanks that cost a
: > little more than the big threaded ones, but it is hot fast...
:
: Make sure you get the right one for your needs.
: They come with the following gas fills:
: - propane
: - butane
: - isobutane/propane mix

Any of the gasses work, but the iso/propane mix is recommended for low (>32°f) operation...

[Mike Adams[_2_]]

john smith > wrote:

>> > We gave up "real cooking" a while back.
>
>> It's a bit of a thread diversion, but I wanted to comment on the lack
>> of cooking in the North 40 this year.
>> We arrived on Sunday, set up camp, and then hiked over to PicNSave
>> and filled our backpacks with
>> groceries and ate very well the rest of the week. The surprise was we
>> hardly saw anyone else cooking in
>> our area. Did everyone walk across to Hardee's every night? Eat $4
>> hot dogs in the airshow? We ate
>> well, and not all that difficult. We used a 2 burner Coleman propane
>> stove. Did we violate some rule we
>> were unaware of?
>
> What row were you parked in?

546. Two rows west of the shower building - a great spot!

Mike

[john smith]

> >> > We gave up "real cooking" a while back.

> >> It's a bit of a thread diversion, but I wanted to comment on the lack
> >> of cooking in the North 40 this year.
> >> We arrived on Sunday, set up camp, and then hiked over to PicNSave
> >> and filled our backpacks with
> >> groceries and ate very well the rest of the week. The surprise was we
> >> hardly saw anyone else cooking in
> >> our area. Did everyone walk across to Hardee's every night? Eat $4
> >> hot dogs in the airshow? We ate
> >> well, and not all that difficult. We used a 2 burner Coleman propane
> >> stove. Did we violate some rule we
> >> were unaware of?

> > What row were you parked in?

> 546. Two rows west of the shower building - a great spot!

Well no wonder! You were parked in all those caravaner's.
They were so packed full they didn't have any room for cooking utensils!
:-))

Seriously, it takes a well experienced camper to bring only what is
essential to camp at OSH. Most pilots are fliers, not campers. Most
don't own the requisite camping and cooking gear to make a home away
from home with the plane.

The proof of that is the tents many bring with them; the sleeping bags
and all the extra clothes.
The gear is so heavy and bulky, there isn't room in the airplane for
anything else they need.

Everything I used this year weighted 10-12 pounds and occupied a volume
less than two cubic feet. This reflects 35 years of backpacking
experience and knowledge and $250 worth of equipment and clothing.

As for individual cooking, all one really needs is a one-liter pot, a
single-burner stove, a spork, a cup, a plate and a spatula. Each
additional person requires a cup, plate and spork. Pretty simple, really.
You can do a lot with a single pot and boiled water.
Boil bag rice or instant mashed potatos, frozen vegetables and a meat of
your choice will make a balanced meal in less than 30-minutes.

[Mike Adams[_2_]]

john smith > wrote:

> Seriously, it takes a well experienced camper to bring only what is
> essential to camp at OSH. Most pilots are fliers, not campers. Most
> don't own the requisite camping and cooking gear to make a home away
> from home with the plane.

I hear you! When we used to go camping with the Boy Scouts, we had two types of outings for the boys:
tail gate campouts and backpacking. I always thought backpacking was easier, because by definition
there's just less stuff to pack. Oshkosh camping on the other hand seems more like tail-gating. With our
C-182, there's just a temptation to throw in more stuff as long as there's room for it. This year, we took
the back seat out to make packing easier, and all it did was let us take more stuff. It's nice to have the
pop-up awning, table and chairs, but I'm sure we could get by on a much smaller scale by reverting to
"backpack mode". Either way, it was a great time!

Mike

[Grumman-581[_1_]]

On Fri, 11 Aug 2006 02:49:59 GMT, john smith > wrote:
> As for individual cooking, all one really needs is a one-liter pot, a
> single-burner stove, a spork, a cup, a plate and a spatula. Each
> additional person requires a cup, plate and spork. Pretty simple, really.
> You can do a lot with a single pot and boiled water.
> Boil bag rice or instant mashed potatos, frozen vegetables and a meat of
> your choice will make a balanced meal in less than 30-minutes.

But that would mean that you would have to leave your BBQ pit home...
For us Texans, that's an unforgivable sin...

[Margy Natalie]

Montblack wrote:
> ("Margy Natalie" wrote)
>
>> The ones in Vintage have full time attendents with buckets and
>> wet-vacs. The doors leak and they are used constantly for hours on
>> end. The person cleaning the women's shower this year was
>> particularly good at keeping it fairly dry.
>
>
>
> The one south of the ultralights, where the seaplane bus picks you up,
> was nice. I checked it out on day.
>
> The design was odd though.
>
> Two doors were on either end of the trailer, along one wall. Connecting
> the doors was a large hallway that ran the length of the trailer, along
> the outside wall. In the middle of the space (facing the other outside
> wall) were the showers - maybe four stalls on each side of a center
> entrance, off the hallway. The other long wall of the trailer had
> benches to dry off and get dressed.
>
> Here's my thought: Why not showers on the two "outside" walls? The wide
> empty hallway running the length of the trailer, on one outside wall,
> was much wasted space, IMHO.
>
> Anyway, that was my first impression of the shower trailer. Clean, and
> puzzling. <g>
>
>
> Montblack
>
>
If you've ever shared that "long, empty, hallway" with 10 people getting
dressed you will find it's not that big! Showers on both sides would
leave no space to get dressed and/or lead to an oversized trailer.

Margy

[Montblack[_1_]]

("Margy Natalie" wrote)
> If you've ever shared that "long, empty, hallway" with 10 people getting
> dressed you will find it's not that big! Showers on both sides would
> leave no space to get dressed and/or lead to an oversized trailer.


Hmm? I thought that's what the space in front of the showers was used for? I
was thinking in terms of the YMCA - lockers on both sides, benches in the
middle.

O = Open space
S = Shower stalls (facing the open space)
H = Hallway

OSH ...door
OSH
OSH
OSH
O. .H
OSH
OSH
OSH
OSH ...door

When my pics get back from California, I'll have to take a closer look. Yes!
I took pics of the (empty) shower trailer.


Montblack
I showered in the dorms every night.

[Margy Natalie]

Montblack wrote:
> ("Margy Natalie" wrote)
>
>> If you've ever shared that "long, empty, hallway" with 10 people
>> getting dressed you will find it's not that big! Showers on both
>> sides would leave no space to get dressed and/or lead to an oversized
>> trailer.
>
>
>
> Hmm? I thought that's what the space in front of the showers was used
> for? I was thinking in terms of the YMCA - lockers on both sides,
> benches in the middle.
>
> O = Open space
> S = Shower stalls (facing the open space)
> H = Hallway
>
> OSH ...door
> OSH
> OSH
> OSH
> O. .H
> OSH
> OSH
> OSH
> OSH ...door
>
> When my pics get back from California, I'll have to take a closer look.
> Yes! I took pics of the (empty) shower trailer.
>
>
> Montblack
> I showered in the dorms every night.
Oh, the open part in the middle. If you wait until someone is working
you will find out that there is a panel between the showers, it's not
really open. Behind the panel are the mechanical systems.

Margy

[Mark Morissette]

Jay Honeck wrote:
> of convenience (hey, it was there), not taste, as the water at OSH is
> really quite excellent -- as long as you avoid the water fountains in
> the South 40, which use water apparently from iron-laden wells.

As Paul mentioned, I'm pretty sure that the airport draws water from
several different sources, as there were differences in quality
depending on what fountains you used.

Where we were situated the water was particularly bad. Drinkable, but
not great.

[Morgans[_3_]]

"Montblack" > wrote
>
> I showered at night 10pm. No lines, no fuss.

> In the AM, I my brush teeth, put on clean clothes, my Tilly hat, and head
> out for another day of sweat and sunscreen.

Yep; that is my M.O., also. The explorers share the warbirds's showers, and
they tend to be packed in the AM, and sometimes can be a bit "chilly." <g>
--
Jim in NC