EFIS Wars....

[Andy[_3_]]

For those among you who have seen (at OSH or aggressively shopped) and
compared current generation of EFIS who is currently putting out the
best product/$$ in the <$5K <$7.5K and >10K regimes?

I am afraid some of you homebuilders are looking at some of those the
$35K (G1000) products into your $20K airplanes. I really hope not!

[Dave S]

Andy wrote:
> For those among you who have seen (at OSH or aggressively shopped) and
> compared current generation of EFIS who is currently putting out the
> best product/$$ in the <$5K <$7.5K and >10K regimes?
>
> I am afraid some of you homebuilders are looking at some of those the
> $35K (G1000) products into your $20K airplanes. I really hope not!
>

I have a $2400 Dynon D100 (the 6-7" screen), there is a new firmware
update that is coming out that provides for a DG display co-located with
the AHI display..

In the pipeline for upgrade is an HSI functionality that uses SL30 and
GPS signals for steering. It was just announced within past month.

Yea.. Blue Mountain has had this for a few years now, but not in this
size AT THIS PRICE.

I can handle the <$3k price range just fine and get ooodles of
functionality compared to joe 6-packs' 6 pack.

Dave

[Gig 601XL Builder]

"Dave S" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> Andy wrote:
>> For those among you who have seen (at OSH or aggressively shopped) and
>> compared current generation of EFIS who is currently putting out the
>> best product/$$ in the <$5K <$7.5K and >10K regimes?
>>
>> I am afraid some of you homebuilders are looking at some of those the
>> $35K (G1000) products into your $20K airplanes. I really hope not!
>>
>
> I have a $2400 Dynon D100 (the 6-7" screen), there is a new firmware
> update that is coming out that provides for a DG display co-located with
> the AHI display..
>
> In the pipeline for upgrade is an HSI functionality that uses SL30 and GPS
> signals for steering. It was just announced within past month.
>
> Yea.. Blue Mountain has had this for a few years now, but not in this size
> AT THIS PRICE.
>
> I can handle the <$3k price range just fine and get ooodles of
> functionality compared to joe 6-packs' 6 pack.
>
> Dave

I'm considering a Dynon FlightDek D180 it is the larger screen and is both a
EFIS and EIS in one. If I go that way I'll leave room and pre-wire for a
smaller D10 for the right seat. This will give be a back up set of flight
instruments for the D180 and I would be able to put the HSI/DG on 1/3 of the
D180 and the engine data on the D10.

[Dave S]

Gig 601XL Builder wrote:

>
> I'm considering a Dynon FlightDek D180 it is the larger screen and is both a
> EFIS and EIS in one. If I go that way I'll leave room and pre-wire for a
> smaller D10 for the right seat. This will give be a back up set of flight
> instruments for the D180 and I would be able to put the HSI/DG on 1/3 of the
> D180 and the engine data on the D10.
>
>

If you have the room for it... the D100 (as in a second D100 size
chassis) has a MUCH larger screen and is only $200 more.. (and comes
with its own external directional compass (EDC), which eats most of that
price diff)... you'd get the equivalent of two full INDEPENDENT EFIS and
a EMS. The other nice thing I like about the D100.. its not nearly as
deep as the D10(A) so if space behind the panel becomes an issue (such
as in the corner of the panel, where the fuselage MAY taper inwards).

Then you can have full screen engine data on the right, full AHI/DG on
the left (or swappable in case your right seater wants flight data in front)

Dave
(back to plotting, wiring, plumbing and instrumenting)

[rpellicciotti]

Andy wrote:
> For those among you who have seen (at OSH or aggressively shopped) and
> compared current generation of EFIS who is currently putting out the
> best product/$$ in the <$5K <$7.5K and >10K regimes?
>
> I am afraid some of you homebuilders are looking at some of those the
> $35K (G1000) products into your $20K airplanes. I really hope not!

My partner and I looked at all of the different systems that are out
there for both of our projects. Mine is a Long-EZ retrofit. His is a
new-build F1 Rocket. We settled on the Grand Rapids Horizon 1 systems
(dual screen) and Trutrack Digiflight autopilot combo. We believe that
these units are the best bang for the buck and come from companies with
excellent support and service history.

All one had to do was walk around the display booths at AirVenture.
Many of the EFIS companies had people 1 or 2 deep, while the Grand
Rapids booth was 5 or 6 people deep at all times.

I have also had a chance to fly a couple of S-LSA aircraft with the
Grand Rapids Sport EFIS installed. That unit, coupled with their
internal GPS and a SL30, makes a powerful yet inexpensive setup.

Rick Pellicciotti
Belle Aire Aviation, Inc.
http://www.belleaireaviation.com

[Gig 601XL Builder]

"rpellicciotti" > wrote in message
ps.com...

>
> I have also had a chance to fly a couple of S-LSA aircraft with the
> Grand Rapids Sport EFIS installed. That unit, coupled with their
> internal GPS and a SL30, makes a powerful yet inexpensive setup.
>
> Rick Pellicciotti
> Belle Aire Aviation, Inc.
> http://www.belleaireaviation.com
>

This is what I've been looking at.

The one thing lacking in the Dynon when compared to the Grand Rapids units
was the lack of any way to act as a CDI for either a Nav unit or a GPS.

According to their sight they are about to fix that with an HSI type display
as a software upgrade.

[Roger[_4_]]

On 14 Aug 2006 15:36:54 -0700, "Andy" >
wrote:

>For those among you who have seen (at OSH or aggressively shopped) and
>compared current generation of EFIS who is currently putting out the
>best product/$$ in the <$5K <$7.5K and >10K regimes?
>
>I am afraid some of you homebuilders are looking at some of those the
>$35K (G1000) products into your $20K airplanes. I really hope not!

There are a quite a few of the current generation kit planes in which
a complete Garmin system would not be out of place.

That said, what are the track records for these new, uncertified
systems? How do they stack up in reliability and support compared to
the certified systems bearing in mind these are a fraction the cost of
the certified systems.

The G-III (Glasair) uses group had quite a discussion on this topic
earlier this year. One of the conclusions was when using any of these
systems you need to wring it out while wringing out the airplane in
your restricted time be it 25 or 40 hours. Actually with the complete
EFIS (glass panel) you probably need to consider a 100 hours of so to
really prove it out and don't forget the basic steam gages are still
required in addition to the glass panel and should be located where
they are easy to read in case the electronic system fails.

How many hours do you want on a system before you would trust it
flying IFR?

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

[Jerry Springer]

Roger wrote:
> and don't forget the basic steam gages are still
> required in addition to the glass panel and should be located where
> they are easy to read in case the electronic system fails.

> Roger Halstead

Roger what do you mean basic gages are still required? Do you mean by
FAA or just as a good operating practice for backup safety?


I do not believe you have to have any steam gages in an experimental if
you have the required instrumentation in electronics. Of course if you
are flying IFR then you would want backup, I would anyway.

Jerry

[Dave S]

Roger wrote:
and don't forget the basic steam gages are still
> required in addition to the glass panel and should be located where
> they are easy to read in case the electronic system fails.

Please cite the appropriate rule that mandates that assertion.

Dave

[TxSrv]

Dave S wrote:
> Roger wrote:
>> and don't forget the basic steam gages are still
>> required in addition to the glass panel and should be located where
>> they are easy to read in case the electronic system fails.
>
> Please cite the appropriate rule that mandates that assertion.

For type-certificated aircraft, there's an Advisory Circular
which says basically either establish specified failure
probability, depending upon the importance of the instrument, or
please the exception herein for "redundancy." Thus, we may see
like a mechanical horizon gyro stuck in a glass panel somewhere.
For amateur-built and IFR, probably a good idea too.

Fred F.

[Dave S]

TxSrv wrote:
For amateur-built and IFR, probably a good idea
> too.
>

Right.. Safe is always a good idea.. but I want to differentiate "safe"
and a "good idea" from Legal.

In my all electric plane, I'd rather have two different, INDEPENDENT
EFIS devices (even if they are the noncertified variety.. could even be
different manufacturers...), with solid state innards, than a mechanical
gyro.

Dave