Conditions right tonight for frequency skipping in the NE US

[Peter R.]

This evening I flew from Buffalo, NY, down to Cleveland, over to
Binghamton, NY, and back home to Syracuse for an Angel Flight. Total time
in the air was probably 3 hours just before sunset.

At first I thought something was wrong with my Garmin GNS430 radio because
I kept hearing numerous pilot-side communications, but no ATC. This
happened on the Buffalo departure frequency, the Erie, PA, approach, and
the Cleveland approach frequencies.

Just after departing Cleveland, I heard this again, but this time I caught
a check-in. The pilot mentioned Chicago Center and it finally became clear
to me that I was hearing pilots from 600 to 1,000 miles away.

Is this phenomenon called skipping? What causes such a large outbreak of
this, high clouds or something else? A very interesting evening, as it was
occurring on just about all of the center and approach frequencies that I
was monitoring.


--
Peter

[john smith]

> Is this phenomenon called skipping? What causes such a large outbreak of
> this, high clouds or something else? A very interesting evening, as it was
> occurring on just about all of the center and approach frequencies that I
> was monitoring.

Skipping, ducting, different places call it different things.
Solar radiation affects the ionosphere, causing the various layers to
rise or descend. Depending on the frequency and the ionosphere layer,
the radio signal will make a single bounce/reflect or may become
temporarily trapped between two layers and bounce/reflect off the top
and bottom before escaping some distance from the source.

[vincent p. norris]

>Is this phenomenon called skipping?

IIRC, it's called "skip zone phenomenon."

I can recall more than one occasion, when I was stationed at Cherry
Point, NC in the early '50s, receiving a Puerto Rican TV station.
(VHF TV stations broadcast on frequencies very close to those used by
Aviation.)

vince norris

[RST Engineering]

Not so. Channels 2-6 occupy the band 54-88 MHz., while channels 7-13 occupy
174-216 MHz.. Neither one is remotely close to the aviation band.

In the late summer, we generally get decent skip propagation due to sunspot
activity directly overhead the USA, but the sunspot cycle isn't all that
high right now. What the OP heard was truly a very rare phenomenon. Most
of the time, the skip doesn't get to 30 MHz. Sometimes to 50. Rarely to
150 (listening to New York taxicabs in Los Angeles). Rare indeed.

Jim


"vincent p. norris" > wrote in message
...


> (VHF TV stations broadcast on frequencies very close to those used by
> Aviation.)

[Peter R.]

john smith > wrote:

> Depending on the frequency and the ionosphere layer,
> the radio signal will make a single bounce/reflect or may become
> temporarily trapped between two layers and bounce/reflect off the top
> and bottom before escaping some distance from the source.

Now that I thought about it some more, the frequencies that were picking up
the skipping transmissions were between 120.30 and 128.00 or so, which
included Erie approach, Syracuse approach, Buffalo approach, and sections
of Cleveland center.


--
Peter

[Gene Seibel]

Here near St Louis I was seeing skip last night all the way up to TV
channel 9, which is 187 mHz.
--
Gene Seibel KB0NNN
http://pad39a.com/gene/broadcast.html
Because I fly, I envy no one.



Peter R. wrote:
> This evening I flew from Buffalo, NY, down to Cleveland, over to
> Binghamton, NY, and back home to Syracuse for an Angel Flight. Total time
> in the air was probably 3 hours just before sunset.
>
> At first I thought something was wrong with my Garmin GNS430 radio because
> I kept hearing numerous pilot-side communications, but no ATC. This
> happened on the Buffalo departure frequency, the Erie, PA, approach, and
> the Cleveland approach frequencies.
>
> Just after departing Cleveland, I heard this again, but this time I caught
> a check-in. The pilot mentioned Chicago Center and it finally became clear
> to me that I was hearing pilots from 600 to 1,000 miles away.
>
> Is this phenomenon called skipping? What causes such a large outbreak of
> this, high clouds or something else? A very interesting evening, as it was
> occurring on just about all of the center and approach frequencies that I
> was monitoring.
>
>
> --
> Peter

[[email protected]]

Peter R. wrote:
> This evening I flew from Buffalo, NY, down to Cleveland, over to
> Binghamton, NY, and back home to Syracuse for an Angel Flight. Total time
> in the air was probably 3 hours just before sunset.
>
> At first I thought something was wrong with my Garmin GNS430 radio because
> I kept hearing numerous pilot-side communications, but no ATC. This
> happened on the Buffalo departure frequency, the Erie, PA, approach, and
> the Cleveland approach frequencies.
>
> Just after departing Cleveland, I heard this again, but this time I caught
> a check-in. The pilot mentioned Chicago Center and it finally became clear
> to me that I was hearing pilots from 600 to 1,000 miles away.
>
> Is this phenomenon called skipping? What causes such a large outbreak of
> this, high clouds or something else? A very interesting evening, as it was
> occurring on just about all of the center and approach frequencies that I
> was monitoring.
>
>
> --
> Peter

A large solar flare is hitting earth right now... visit
http://www.spaceweather.com to learn more...

Dean

[vincent p. norris]

>> (VHF TV stations broadcast on frequencies very close to those used by
>> Aviation.)

>Not so. Channels 2-6 occupy the band 54-88 MHz., while channels 7-13 occupy
>174-216 MHz.. Neither one is remotely close to the aviation band.
>
Well, if I remember correctly, the frequencies I use to talk to a
tower, or approach control, or center, or tune in a VOR or an ILS, are
BETWEEN 88 MHz and 174 MHz.

That is, between channel 6 and channel 7. Seems to me that justifies
saying they are " close." Perhaps I should have omitted the "very."

A nearby VOR is on 108.8, as I recall. That's less than 21 Mhz. from
88 MHz. When we're meassuring in megas, isn't that "close" enough?

BTW, after all these years, I have no recollection of which channel it
was on which we could pick up Puerto rico.

vince norris

[RST Engineering]

Is $88 million close to $108 million? Only if you're in congress, imho.

Jim



"vincent p. norris" > wrote in message
...

>
> A nearby VOR is on 108.8, as I recall. That's less than 21 Mhz. from
> 88 MHz. When we're meassuring in megas, isn't that "close" enough?
>

[Matt Whiting]

RST Engineering wrote:

> Is $88 million close to $108 million? Only if you're in congress, imho.
>
> Jim

Jim,

I'll be happy with either amount. Shall I provide you an address to
which to send the check? :-)

Matt

[Judah]

"Peter R." > wrote in
:

> This evening I flew from Buffalo, NY, down to Cleveland, over to
> Binghamton, NY, and back home to Syracuse for an Angel Flight. Total
> time in the air was probably 3 hours just before sunset.
>
> At first I thought something was wrong with my Garmin GNS430 radio
> because I kept hearing numerous pilot-side communications, but no ATC.
> This happened on the Buffalo departure frequency, the Erie, PA,
> approach, and the Cleveland approach frequencies.
>
> Just after departing Cleveland, I heard this again, but this time I
> caught a check-in. The pilot mentioned Chicago Center and it finally
> became clear to me that I was hearing pilots from 600 to 1,000 miles
> away.
>
> Is this phenomenon called skipping? What causes such a large outbreak
> of this, high clouds or something else? A very interesting evening, as
> it was occurring on just about all of the center and approach
> frequencies that I was monitoring.


Skip is generally found with solar flares and increased solar activity. It
is a common source of excitement for Amatuer Radio operators. Some Hams
collect and trade postcards ("QSL Cards") from people with whom they spoke
to across long distances ("CQ DX")... It's been a long time since I did
any radio play, but I remember talking to someone from Florida from my
house in NY on a CB Sideband. One of my local Ham friends (the guy who was
trying to get me to get my Ham Operator's license, actually) had QSL cards
from Europe, most from Germany, IIRC...

To my recollection, you could catch some skip almost all the time, but
2-way skip was pretty rare except during solar activity. But it definitely
happens...

[Peter R.]

Judah > wrote:

> Skip is generally found with solar flares and increased solar activity. It
> is a common source of excitement for Amatuer Radio operators.
<snip>

Interesting. Thanks.

--
Peter

[Michelle Settle]

"Peter R." > wrote in message
...
> Judah > wrote:
>
>> Skip is generally found with solar flares and increased solar activity.
>> It
>> is a common source of excitement for Amatuer Radio operators.
> <snip>
>
> Interesting. Thanks.
>
http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0186151/

[Peter R.]

Michelle Settle > wrote:


> http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0186151/

Yep, I enjoyed that movie when I saw it a few years ago, but mostly for
the romantic fallacy of being able to connect to days gone by.

--
Peter

[Judah]

"Michelle Settle" > wrote in news:44eb1e28$0$500
:

>
> "Peter R." > wrote in message
> ...
>> Judah > wrote:
>>
>>> Skip is generally found with solar flares and increased solar activity.
>>> It
>>> is a common source of excitement for Amatuer Radio operators.
>> <snip>
>>
>> Interesting. Thanks.
>>
> http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0186151/

A really good movie. And while I know of Hams who have "skipped" across time
zones, I don't know of any that have skipped across time/space continuums. :)