Ercoupes... ?

[Flyingmonk[_1_]]

http://cactusballoonflights.com/ercoupe/e6a.jpg

If there are no pedals, why are there hinges?

Monk

[houstondan]

they're linked to the ailerons. automatically gives you just enough.
designed to be stall-proof. predicted accurately by wolfgang
langeweische in stick&rudder.

dan
Flyingmonk wrote:
> http://cactusballoonflights.com/ercoupe/e6a.jpg
>
> If there are no pedals, why are there hinges?
>
> Monk

[houstondan]

did you notice the castering mains?? idea stolen by big boeings and
shopping carts everywhere. also very cool.


dan
Flyingmonk wrote:
> http://cactusballoonflights.com/ercoupe/e6a.jpg
>
> If there are no pedals, why are there hinges?
>
> Monk

[Flyingmonk[_1_]]

houstondan wrote:
> did you notice the castering mains?? idea stolen by big boeings and
> shopping carts everywhere. also very cool.
>
>
> dan
> Flyingmonk wrote:
> > http://cactusballoonflights.com/ercoupe/e6a.jpg
> >
> > If there are no pedals, why are there hinges?
> >
> > Monk

No I didn't Dan. Thanks for the infos. I'll take another looksie.
8^)

Monk

[Bob Moore]

houstondan wrote

> did you notice the castering mains?? idea stolen by big boeings and
> shopping carts everywhere. also very cool.

Which Boeings have castering main landing gear?
Is the Shift Key broken on your computer?

Bob Moore

[Jim Macklin]

The rudder are linked to the ailerons.



"Flyingmonk" > wrote in message
ups.com...
| http://cactusballoonflights.com/ercoupe/e6a.jpg
|
| If there are no pedals, why are there hinges?
|
| Monk
|

[john smith]

> > If there are no pedals, why are there hinges?

> they're linked to the ailerons. automatically gives you just enough.
> designed to be stall-proof. predicted accurately by wolfgang
> langeweische in stick&rudder.

Don't you mean "spin-proof"?

[Jim Macklin]

The elevator is restricted and can't raise the angle of
attack to the stall. Stall-proof is correct.



"john smith" > wrote in message
...
|> > If there are no pedals, why are there hinges?
|
| > they're linked to the ailerons. automatically gives you
just enough.
| > designed to be stall-proof. predicted accurately by
wolfgang
| > langeweische in stick&rudder.
|
| Don't you mean "spin-proof"?

[Jim Macklin]

B52 gear is set for the crab angle for take-off and landing,
the gear is locked in position and doesn't free caster. It
is also used for steering.

Crosswind landing gear from Goodyear was installed on the
Helio Courier as an option, the main gear wheels could be
lock straight ahead or unlocked and free caster.



"Bob Moore" > wrote in message
. 122...
| houstondan wrote
|
| > did you notice the castering mains?? idea stolen by big
boeings and
| > shopping carts everywhere. also very cool.
|
| Which Boeings have castering main landing gear?
| Is the Shift Key broken on your computer?
|
| Bob Moore

[Don Tuite]

On Mon, 21 Aug 2006 12:02:29 -0500, "Jim Macklin"
> wrote:

>The elevator is restricted and can't raise the angle of
>attack to the stall. Stall-proof is correct.
>
Dive. Yank back the yoke. No stall?
Always wondered about that.

Don
>
>"john smith" > wrote in message
...
>|> > If there are no pedals, why are there hinges?
>|
>| > they're linked to the ailerons. automatically gives you
>just enough.
>| > designed to be stall-proof. predicted accurately by
>wolfgang
>| > langeweische in stick&rudder.
>|
>| Don't you mean "spin-proof"?
>

[Matt Whiting]

Bob Moore wrote:
> houstondan wrote
>
>
>>did you notice the castering mains?? idea stolen by big boeings and
>>shopping carts everywhere. also very cool.
>
>
> Which Boeings have castering main landing gear?

The B-52. :-) Not exactly, but close.

Matt

[Montblack[_1_]]

("Bob Moore" wrote)
>> did you notice the castering mains?? idea stolen by big boeings and
>> shopping carts everywhere. also very cool.


Q. > Is the Shift Key broken on your computer?
A. ??


Montblack

[[email protected]]

houstondan wrote:
> did you notice the castering mains?? idea stolen by big boeings and
> shopping carts everywhere. also very cool.


Ercoupe's DO NOT have castoring mains, old myth. Don't know where it
ever came from.

I owned one for 2.5 years.
The "trick" to the landing is the trailing link mains. Once it touches
down it will have a tendency to straighten out. They do not castor.
Never did.

Ryan
Former owner of N3000G
Forney F-1

[Ron Natalie]

Jim Macklin wrote:
> B52 gear is set for the crab angle for take-off and landing,
> the gear is locked in position and doesn't free caster. It
> is also used for steering.
>
The Ercoupe gear doesn't really caster either. It is a trailing
link gear. While it will swing some, it wants to return to the
center afterwards.

[Bob Fry]

>>>>> "houstondan" == houstondan > writes:

houstondan> did you notice the castering mains?? idea stolen by
houstondan> big boeings and shopping carts everywhere. also very
houstondan> cool.

The mains DO NOT caster. They are built to take the side loads
generated by landing at a crabbed angle.

[Flyingmonk[_1_]]

Montblack wrote:
> ("Bob Moore" wrote)
> >> did you notice the castering mains?? idea stolen by big boeings and
> >> shopping carts everywhere. also very cool.
>
>
> Q. > Is the Shift Key broken on your computer?
> A. ??
>
>
> Montblack

montblack,

dont you yuo mean/

..q. > Is the shift key broken on your computer/
..a. //

860
monk

[Montblack[_1_]]

("Flyingmonk" wrote)
> .q. > Is the shift key broken on your computer/


<small> "L" <small> "S" ....clever. :-)

The way I see it, houstandan is grandfather'd in. Anyone else gets ...!!!!

Same with [xxx] and his #!^&%*. It's the second person doing it who drives
me nuts. Throw in DeLoon DeLoon and his "quoting" issues, too.

There's more...


Montblack

[Jay Honeck]

> The way I see it, houstandan is grandfather'd in. Anyone else gets ...!!!!
>
> Same with [xxx] and his #!^&%*. It's the second person doing it who drives
> me nuts. Throw in DeLoon DeLoon and his "quoting" issues, too.
>
> There's more...

Wow. That's as close to a "rant" as I've ever seen you do, Montblack!

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[john smith]

In article >,
"Montblack" > wrote:

> ("Flyingmonk" wrote)
> > .q. > Is the shift key broken on your computer/
>
>
> <small> "L" <small> "S" ....clever. :-)
>
> The way I see it, houstandan is grandfather'd in. Anyone else gets ...!!!!
>
> Same with [xxx] and his #!^&%*. It's the second person doing it who drives
> me nuts. Throw in DeLoon DeLoon and his "quoting" issues, too.
>
> There's more...

What?
No movie, lyrics or web references?

[Greg B[_1_]]

"houstondan" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> did you notice the castering mains?? idea stolen by big boeings and
> shopping carts everywhere. also very cool.

Bullshirt!

[Flyingmonk[_1_]]

Greg B wrote:

> Bullshirt!

LoLz I like that... I'm stealin' it.

Monk

[Flyingmonk[_1_]]

Montblack wrote:
> ("Flyingmonk" wrote)
> > .q. > Is the shift key broken on your computer/
>
>
> <small> "L" <small> "S" ....clever. :-)
>
> The way I see it, houstandan is grandfather'd in. Anyone else gets ...!!!!
>
> Same with [xxx] and his #!^&%*. It's the second person doing it who drives
> me nuts. Throw in DeLoon DeLoon and his "quoting" issues, too.
>
> There's more...
>
>
> Montblack

8^)

How you make out at Osh Monty? I owe you one big brother...

Monk

[Montblack[_1_]]

("john smith" wrote)
> What?
> No movie, lyrics or web references?


http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0075222/quotes
Memorable Quotes from Silent Movie (1976)


Montblack :-)

[john smith]

> > What?
> > No movie, lyrics or web references?

> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0075222/quotes
> Memorable Quotes from Silent Movie (1976)

Touche'!

[houstondan]

ron,( and others) of course, you're right. i regret the error.

dan
Ron Natalie wrote:
> Jim Macklin wrote:
> > B52 gear is set for the crab angle for take-off and landing,
> > the gear is locked in position and doesn't free caster. It
> > is also used for steering.
> >
> The Ercoupe gear doesn't really caster either. It is a trailing
> link gear. While it will swing some, it wants to return to the
> center afterwards.

[Kyle Boatright]

"Don Tuite" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 21 Aug 2006 12:02:29 -0500, "Jim Macklin"
> > wrote:
>
>>The elevator is restricted and can't raise the angle of
>>attack to the stall. Stall-proof is correct.
>>
> Dive. Yank back the yoke. No stall?
> Always wondered about that.
>
> Don

You can cause a stall using the technique you mention. But, you'll never
accidentally stall one just puttering around. I understand that if you know
what you're doing and are dumb/brave enough to try, you can even barrel roll
one.

KB

[houstondan]

this link should get you to the national air and space museum
description of the ercoupe.


//www.nasm.si.edu/research/aero/aircraft/erco415.htm

dan

[Don Tuite]

On Tue, 22 Aug 2006 19:46:37 -0400, "Kyle Boatright"
> wrote:

>
>"Don Tuite" > wrote in message
...
>> On Mon, 21 Aug 2006 12:02:29 -0500, "Jim Macklin"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>The elevator is restricted and can't raise the angle of
>>>attack to the stall. Stall-proof is correct.
>>>
>> Dive. Yank back the yoke. No stall?
>> Always wondered about that.
>>
>> Don
>
>You can cause a stall using the technique you mention. But, you'll never
>accidentally stall one just puttering around. I understand that if you know
>what you're doing and are dumb/brave enough to try, you can even barrel roll
>one.
>
But what's it like? Fall out of the sky? Tendency to spin? Just
release backpressure to recover? How much altitiude loss?

In all these years, somebody must have tried it and reported.

Don

[Greg B[_1_]]

"Kyle Boatright" > wrote in message
...
> You can cause a stall using the technique you mention. But, you'll never
> accidentally stall one just puttering around. I understand that if you
> know what you're doing and are dumb/brave enough to try, you can even
> barrel roll one.

Rolls and loops are the reason for Service Bulletin 32. See
http://jimsladesairlines.com/sb32.html about SB32. Also see
http://www.ercoupe.org/ercoupers_faq.htm for more information on the landing
gear, rudder pedals, stalls/spins, etc...

-Greg B.
N93332

[.Blueskies.]

"houstondan" > wrote in message oups.com...
: this link should get you to the national air and space museum
: description of the ercoupe.
:
:
: //www.nasm.si.edu/research/aero/aircraft/erco415.htm
:
: dan
:

Interesting it says "castoring wheels and the steerable nose wheel could align with the runway on impact." I think they
should re-word it to say something like "main landing gear with lots of castor and the steerable nose wheel would align
the airplane with the runway on touchdown."

[Bob Moore]

..Blueskies. wrote
> Interesting it says "castoring wheels and the steerable nose wheel
> could align with the runway on impact."

I think that they speak in error, other, seemingly more authoritative
web sites dealing with the Ercoupe deny that the wheels castor at all.

Bob Moore

[Bob Fry]

>>>>> "BS" == Blueskies <.Blueskies.> writes:

BS> Interesting it says "castoring wheels and the steerable nose
BS> wheel could align with the runway on impact."

I exchanged several emails with the #*!@&# that wrote that, and he
wouldn't budge on his choice of words, even tho pretty much the entire
Ercoupe community blasted him for it. Coupe drivers can be old coots.

[houstondan]

dear bob,

very sloppy punctuation in the creation of that run-on sentence.
lose the comma after the word "error", replace the comma with a period.
then, if you're going to create a parenthetical phrase after "other",
you must put another comma after "ercoupe. there; that's much better.

i'm a little curious about which groups you consider "more
authoritative" than the by-god national air and space museum.
"seemingly" to whom??

fair's fair. jus funnin ya.



dan


Bob Moore wrote:
> .Blueskies. wrote
> > Interesting it says "castoring wheels and the steerable nose wheel
> > could align with the runway on impact."
>
> I think that they speak in error, other, seemingly more authoritative
> web sites dealing with the Ercoupe deny that the wheels castor at all.
>
> Bob Moore

[Flyingmonk[_1_]]

..Blueskies. wrote:
> "houstondan" > wrote in message oups.com...
> : this link should get you to the national air and space museum
> : description of the ercoupe.
> :
> :
> : //www.nasm.si.edu/research/aero/aircraft/erco415.htm
> :
> : dan
> :
>
> Interesting it says "castoring wheels and the steerable nose wheel could align with the runway on impact." I think they
> should re-word it to say something like "main landing gear with lots of castor and the steerable nose wheel would align
> the airplane with the runway on touchdown."

IMPACT? LOL... Must be one O' them Aviation-phobic types...

Monk

[Big John]

Jim

The U-10 I flew had the castering wheels. All U-10's the Airforce had
had castering wheels. You could land with them locked or in castering
mode.

After years of kicking out the crab just before touch down it was a
strange feeling to go ahead and touch down in the crab and roll
straight down the runway with bird cocked into the cross wind.

Was not easy to taxi in castering mode so as soon as you got off
runway you relocked them so you could taxi back to parking area
comfortably.

Most landings were in fixed mode and castering primarily used when
checking a new pilot out in bird.

Fly safe and have a nice day.

Big John
`````````````````````````````````````````````````` ``

On Mon, 21 Aug 2006 12:42:53 -0500, "Jim Macklin"
> wrote:

>B52 gear is set for the crab angle for take-off and landing,
>the gear is locked in position and doesn't free caster. It
>is also used for steering.
>
>Crosswind landing gear from Goodyear was installed on the
>Helio Courier as an option, the main gear wheels could be
>lock straight ahead or unlocked and free caster.
>
>
>
>"Bob Moore" > wrote in message
. 122...
>| houstondan wrote
>|
>| > did you notice the castering mains?? idea stolen by big
>boeings and
>| > shopping carts everywhere. also very cool.
>|
>| Which Boeings have castering main landing gear?
>| Is the Shift Key broken on your computer?
>|
>| Bob Moore
>

[Big John]

Jim

Wasn't there a retrofit that put rudder peddles in bird and gave it
three dimensional controls like the rest of GA aircraft? The only
bitch I heard about the original bird landing in crab, was that the
tire wear was pretty bad and you had to chnge often if a lot of cross
wind landings.

Fly safe and have a nice day.

Big John
`````````````````````````````````````````

On Mon, 21 Aug 2006 11:11:53 -0500, "Jim Macklin"
> wrote:

>The rudder are linked to the ailerons.
>
>
>
>"Flyingmonk" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>| http://cactusballoonflights.com/ercoupe/e6a.jpg
>|
>| If there are no pedals, why are there hinges?
>|
>| Monk
>|
>

[John Galban]

Big John wrote:
> Jim
>
> Wasn't there a retrofit that put rudder peddles in bird and gave it
> three dimensional controls like the rest of GA aircraft? The only
> bitch I heard about the original bird landing in crab, was that the
> tire wear was pretty bad and you had to chnge often if a lot of cross
> wind landings.
>
There was a retrofit rudder pedal kit for the original Ercoupe
models. Quite a few of the ones I've seen have that mod. The later
manufacturer like Alon and Mooney incorporated rudders pedals as
standard.

John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)

[.Blueskies.]

"Big John" > wrote in message ...
:
: Jim
:
: The U-10 I flew had the castering wheels. All U-10's the Airforce had
: had castering wheels. You could land with them locked or in castering
: mode.
:
: After years of kicking out the crab just before touch down it was a
: strange feeling to go ahead and touch down in the crab and roll
: straight down the runway with bird cocked into the cross wind.
:
: Was not easy to taxi in castering mode so as soon as you got off
: runway you relocked them so you could taxi back to parking area
: comfortably.
:
: Most landings were in fixed mode and castering primarily used when
: checking a new pilot out in bird.
:
: Fly safe and have a nice day.
:
: Big John

OK, the Courier...I remember folks talking about that ability...

[vincent p. norris]

> very sloppy punctuation in the creation of that run-on sentence.
>lose the comma after the word "error", replace the comma with a period.
>then, if you're going to create a parenthetical phrase after "other",
>you must put another comma after "ercoupe. there; that's much better.

If you're going to criticize someone's punctuation, you had better
learn to punctuate correctly. If you live in the U.S., put commas and
periods INSIDE the quotation marks, like this:

You'll find that rule in any grammar text published in the U.S.

lose the word "error," .... parenthetical phrase after "other,"
.......you must put another comma after "ercoupe."

And BTW, "Lose" and "Ercoupe" should be capitalized; and "castor" is a
kind of oil used in rotary engines. The word you want is "caster."

vince norris

[houstondan]

mr. norris,
well, gee, sir, you're kinda comin in late on something here. i
was making a sarcastic point about someone who was nitpickin me in the
way you just did. mayhapz you could read the whole thing for context.
personally, i could care less but if'n you is about the bizness of
correcting newsgroups you're gunna be real busy.

thank you for your intereszt.

dan



vincent p. norris wrote:
> > very sloppy punctuation in the creation of that run-on sentence.
> >lose the comma after the word "error", replace the comma with a period.
> >then, if you're going to create a parenthetical phrase after "other",
> >you must put another comma after "ercoupe. there; that's much better.
>
> If you're going to criticize someone's punctuation, you had better
> learn to punctuate correctly. If you live in the U.S., put commas and
> periods INSIDE the quotation marks, like this:
>
> You'll find that rule in any grammar text published in the U.S.
>
> lose the word "error," .... parenthetical phrase after "other,"
> ......you must put another comma after "ercoupe."
>
> And BTW, "Lose" and "Ercoupe" should be capitalized; and "castor" is a
> kind of oil used in rotary engines. The word you want is "caster."
>
> vince norris

[Grumman-581[_1_]]

On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 22:16:16 -0400, vincent p. norris >
wrote:
> If you're going to criticize someone's punctuation, you had better
> learn to punctuate correctly. If you live in the U.S., put commas and
> periods INSIDE the quotation marks, like this:
>
> You'll find that rule in any grammar text published in the U.S.
>
> lose the word "error," .... parenthetical phrase after "other,"
> ......you must put another comma after "ercoupe."

I always thought that putting the punctuation marks inside the
quotation marks was strange... I don't agree with that rule, so I'm
quite likely to intentionally break it in my writing...

[vincent p. norris]

>I always thought that putting the punctuation marks inside the
>quotation marks was strange...

I was taught that printers, back in Colonial days, thought that
periods and commas looked "lonely" if outside the quotation marks, so
they began putting them inside for aesthetic reasons.

> I don't agree with that rule, so I'm quite likely to intentionally break it in my writing...

If you move to Canada or any part of the former British Empire, you
won't be breaking the rule. Or, you can just break the rule. There
is no penalty, unless you happen to writing to a prospective employer.

vince norris

[vincent p. norris]

> if'n you is about the bizness of
>correcting newsgroups you're gunna be real busy.
>
You're right about that; but I never comment on anyone's writing
unless he was criticizing someone else's writing.

vince norris

[Jose[_1_]]

> I was taught that printers, back in Colonial days, thought that
> periods and commas looked "lonely" if outside the quotation marks, so
> they began putting them inside for aesthetic reasons.

My information is that in the old days, the thin periods and commas were
more delicate, and lasted longer if they were protected by the larger
quotes and parens. This is no longer an issue, and I stick with logic.

Jose
--
The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the music.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[houstondan]

oh, and by the way mr. smarty pants spell checker norris (big grin
here),

i got to wondering why the by-golly national air and space guys would
be spelling it "CASTORING" (see previous link) thinking that they've
probably got a decent spell checker there somewhere so i consulted my
AMERICAN HERITAGE-FOURTH ED.(big 20-pound school type) and by golly
there it is QUOTE: caster 1) one that casts or 2) castor: a small
wheel on a swivel. i guess you can put a castor in your wankel if you
like. it's ok with me.

dan




vincent p. norris wrote:
> > very sloppy punctuation in the creation of that run-on sentence.
> >lose the comma after the word "error", replace the comma with a period.
> >then, if you're going to create a parenthetical phrase after "other",
> >you must put another comma after "ercoupe. there; that's much better.
>
> If you're going to criticize someone's punctuation, you had better
> learn to punctuate correctly. If you live in the U.S., put commas and
> periods INSIDE the quotation marks, like this:
>
> You'll find that rule in any grammar text published in the U.S.
>
> lose the word "error," .... parenthetical phrase after "other,"
> ......you must put another comma after "ercoupe."
>
> And BTW, "Lose" and "Ercoupe" should be capitalized; and "castor" is a
> kind of oil used in rotary engines. The word you want is "caster."
>
> vince norris

[Grumman-581[_1_]]

On Sat, 26 Aug 2006 20:52:46 -0400, vincent p. norris >
wrote:
> There is no penalty, unless you happen to writing to a prospective
> employer.

I feel rather certain that my resume contains no quotation marks
whatsoever in it, so the likelihood of being presented with that
delemma is rather remote... As a software developer, the punctuation
marks go outside the quotation marks... That's good enough for me...

[vincent p. norris]

>> I was taught that printers, back in Colonial days, thought that
>> periods and commas looked "lonely" if outside the quotation marks, so
>> they began putting them inside for aesthetic reasons.
>
>My information is that in the old days, the thin periods and commas were
>more delicate, and lasted longer if they were protected by the larger
>quotes and parens.

That sounds reasonable, Jose, until you consider that whatever piece
of type comes last in the sentence, it is "protected" by the space
(is it called an M Quad?) that comes next. Each piece of type in the
line is "protected" by the pieces on each side of it.

I'm not defending my explanation, btw; I don't know whether or not
it's true.

vince norris

[Jose[_1_]]

> whatever piece
> of type comes last in the sentence, it is "protected" by the space
> (is it called an M Quad?) that comes next.

Perhaps words got moved around whole?

Jose
--
The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the music.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Peter Duniho]

"vincent p. norris" > wrote in message
...
>>My information is that in the old days, the thin periods and commas were
>>more delicate, and lasted longer if they were protected by the larger
>>quotes and parens.
>
> That sounds reasonable, Jose, until you consider that whatever piece
> of type comes last in the sentence, it is "protected" by the space
> (is it called an M Quad?) that comes next. Each piece of type in the
> line is "protected" by the pieces on each side of it.

A space cannot protect a printing character. The component being stressed
is the printing portion of the character, the part raised above (and
substantially smaller than) the main body of the type element. The point is
that during the printing process, each character of type experiences a force
against the printed surface, and for the more delicate characters (such as
periods and commas), this force would be unevenly distributed, putting a
slight lateral component to the force, when there is just a space on one
side.

Taken singly, this force is slight and seemingly inconsequential. But keep
whacking the plate over and over again, and eventually it's going to cause
the character portion of the type element to fail prematurely. According to
the theory that Jose is describing, by placing the more delicate characters
between two printing characters, the lateral force is reduced or even
eliminated, "protecting" the more delicate character.

One possible flaw in the reasoning is that type elements are not just simple
extrusions of the character itself. Most of the time, the character surface
is at the top of a sloped raised area on the type element. So a period,
even if it's just 1mm across where it prints, may actually have a 5mm (for
example, or even larger) base. One would think that would provide extra
strength, helping protect against damage.

However, I don't think that's necessarily an actual flaw in the reasoning,
as all of the type elements have such sloped sides, and the smaller printing
characters will still have less material than the larger ones, and may still
benefit from protection.

In any case, whether or not the theory that Jose related is correct, the
theory isn't talking about the main rectangular body of the type element,
and so just because there's a spacing type element next to a trailing
period, comma, whatever doesn't in any way serve to offer the protection
that the theory describes. If anything, the empty space is precisely what
causes the problem the theory describes.

Pete

[vincent p. norris]

>Perhaps words got moved around whole?

>Jose

I suppose that's a possibility, but probably happened too rarely to
explain changing the "rules" of punctuation.

>A space cannot protect a printing character. The component being stressed
>is the printing portion of the character, the part raised above (and
>substantially smaller than) the main body of the type element.

A good point. Your argument is pretty persuasive, Peter.

vince norris