Handhelds with Headsets: Feedback?

[Steve]

I'm currently using a Vertex VXA-300 and have a Pilot-USA headset:

http://www.pilot-usa.com/pa2011.htm

While transmitting, there is pretty bad feedback (high pitched squeal)
in the headset. After doing some searching and trying a couple of
other headsets, it seems that the problem is that the radio is feeding
the transmission signal back into the cables and causing feedback.

Another member of our soaring club has the same problem with his Icom
using a Telex headset.

After doing quite a bit of research it seems that this is a common
problem with handhelds and headsets:

http://www.avionicswest.com/articles/a23.htm

We've both narrowed it down to the interference from the antenna but
cannot find a sensible way to solve the problem other than to
physically wrap the headset adapter cable around the antenna! This
solves the problem for both of us.

I contacted Vertex and they tell me that this will reduce the
transmission capabilities of the radio. They want me to send the radio
in and have it diagnosed saying that it may be a fault in the headset
adapter or radio, but I find it difficult to think that two different
people with two different radios and two different types of headsets
could have the exact same problem and resolve it in the same manner.
It also concerns me that this is a common problem and nowhere do any of
the handheld manufacturers mention it.

Just curious if anyone has any information or possible solutions.

Thanks,
Steve

[COLIN LAMB]

Assume you have plugged the headset directly into the handheld. Do you have
a push to talk accessory?

You can try clamp on ferrite beads on the headset. Generally close to the
radio. Sometimes it helps to wind a turn or two through the ferrite (but
that reduces the length).

Any extensions of the headset cable could make the problem worse.

Wrapping the headset cable around the antenna is a bad idea.

You can remote the antenna with an extension cable. That should remove the
rf from the radio. If you do that, provide a groundplane for the antenna
and keep it vertical.

Colin

[Steve]

COLIN LAMB wrote:
> Assume you have plugged the headset directly into the handheld. Do you have
> a push to talk accessory?
>
> You can try clamp on ferrite beads on the headset. Generally close to the
> radio. Sometimes it helps to wind a turn or two through the ferrite (but
> that reduces the length).
>
> Any extensions of the headset cable could make the problem worse.
>
> Wrapping the headset cable around the antenna is a bad idea.
>
> You can remote the antenna with an extension cable. That should remove the
> rf from the radio. If you do that, provide a groundplane for the antenna
> and keep it vertical.
>
> Colin

Colin,

Thank you for your answer.

I have tried just about every possible cable combination I could think
of trying to make sure that none of the cables were at fault even
though they are all new and have yet to be used because of the annoying
feedback.

After I read your reply, I did some reading on the ferrite beads and
cores and it looks like that may solve the problem. Going to stop by
the electronics store tomorrow and see what I can come up with.

Ideally a remote antenna would be nice but I'm limited by the fact that
I am flying the club's glider and have limited options.

I'll be sure to post back about how it works out.

Thanks again!

Steve

[HL Falbaum]

I have used a Telex handheld with a plantronics headset and PTT; and an Icom
A22, Headsset adapter, David Clark headset and PTT without problems, and no
special setup.

Could it be something in the glider? Have you tried the setup away from the
glider--a longshot of course but easy to test.

A broken shield to ground solder joint is not an unusual occurrence and
could happen in two sets.

Good luck

--
Hartley Falbaum

"Steve" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> I'm currently using a Vertex VXA-300 and have a Pilot-USA headset:
>
> http://www.pilot-usa.com/pa2011.htm
>
> While transmitting, there is pretty bad feedback (high pitched squeal)
> in the headset. After doing some searching and trying a couple of
> other headsets, it seems that the problem is that the radio is feeding
> the transmission signal back into the cables and causing feedback.
>
> Another member of our soaring club has the same problem with his Icom
> using a Telex headset.
>
> After doing quite a bit of research it seems that this is a common
> problem with handhelds and headsets:
>
> http://www.avionicswest.com/articles/a23.htm
>
> We've both narrowed it down to the interference from the antenna but
> cannot find a sensible way to solve the problem other than to
> physically wrap the headset adapter cable around the antenna! This
> solves the problem for both of us.
>
> I contacted Vertex and they tell me that this will reduce the
> transmission capabilities of the radio. They want me to send the radio
> in and have it diagnosed saying that it may be a fault in the headset
> adapter or radio, but I find it difficult to think that two different
> people with two different radios and two different types of headsets
> could have the exact same problem and resolve it in the same manner.
> It also concerns me that this is a common problem and nowhere do any of
> the handheld manufacturers mention it.
>
> Just curious if anyone has any information or possible solutions.
>
> Thanks,
> Steve
>

[Steve]

HL Falbaum wrote:
> I have used a Telex handheld with a plantronics headset and PTT; and an Icom
> A22, Headsset adapter, David Clark headset and PTT without problems, and no
> special setup.
>
> Could it be something in the glider? Have you tried the setup away from the
> glider--a longshot of course but easy to test.
>
> A broken shield to ground solder joint is not an unusual occurrence and
> could happen in two sets.
>
> Good luck
>
> --
> Hartley Falbaum
>
> "Steve" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
> > I'm currently using a Vertex VXA-300 and have a Pilot-USA headset:
> >
> > http://www.pilot-usa.com/pa2011.htm
> >
> > While transmitting, there is pretty bad feedback (high pitched squeal)
> > in the headset. After doing some searching and trying a couple of
> > other headsets, it seems that the problem is that the radio is feeding
> > the transmission signal back into the cables and causing feedback.
> >
> > Another member of our soaring club has the same problem with his Icom
> > using a Telex headset.
> >
> > After doing quite a bit of research it seems that this is a common
> > problem with handhelds and headsets:
> >
> > http://www.avionicswest.com/articles/a23.htm
> >
> > We've both narrowed it down to the interference from the antenna but
> > cannot find a sensible way to solve the problem other than to
> > physically wrap the headset adapter cable around the antenna! This
> > solves the problem for both of us.
> >
> > I contacted Vertex and they tell me that this will reduce the
> > transmission capabilities of the radio. They want me to send the radio
> > in and have it diagnosed saying that it may be a fault in the headset
> > adapter or radio, but I find it difficult to think that two different
> > people with two different radios and two different types of headsets
> > could have the exact same problem and resolve it in the same manner.
> > It also concerns me that this is a common problem and nowhere do any of
> > the handheld manufacturers mention it.
> >
> > Just curious if anyone has any information or possible solutions.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Steve
> >

I suppose it's possible that there's a bad connection somewhere in the
wire but in the article I posted the author talks about the
susceptibility of handhelds to send feedback through the headset.

The other person and I have done all sorts of testing and for both of
us, the problem is only eliminated by chaning the relationship of the
wires to the antenna which is what caused us to suspect feedback in the
first place. We initially did our testing while not in the glider and
both did further testing at home.

If the ferrite core doesn't solve the problem, I'll send the radio back
to Vertex and see if they can come up with a solution.

Thanks,
Steve

[Burt Compton - Marfa]

Headset in a glider? I bet you you are actually using this headset in
a motorglider or self-launch because of the motor noise. Hope you fix
the squealing feedback problem.

But if you are using a headset in a pure sailplane, how do you hear the
lift, sink, (un)coordinated flight and all the other organic sounds of
soaring? I'm not talking about your audio variometer. Your craft
speaks to you in quiet whispers meant only for you. Don't miss this
information it shares with you, especially in a well-sealed sailplane.
Strive to be one with your sailplane.

Keep it simple.

Burt
Marfa, Texas USA

[Steve]

Steve wrote:
> HL Falbaum wrote:
> > I have used a Telex handheld with a plantronics headset and PTT; and an Icom
> > A22, Headsset adapter, David Clark headset and PTT without problems, and no
> > special setup.
> >
> > Could it be something in the glider? Have you tried the setup away from the
> > glider--a longshot of course but easy to test.
> >
> > A broken shield to ground solder joint is not an unusual occurrence and
> > could happen in two sets.
> >
> > Good luck
> >
> > --
> > Hartley Falbaum
> >
> > "Steve" > wrote in message
> > ups.com...
> > > I'm currently using a Vertex VXA-300 and have a Pilot-USA headset:
> > >
> > > http://www.pilot-usa.com/pa2011.htm
> > >
> > > While transmitting, there is pretty bad feedback (high pitched squeal)
> > > in the headset. After doing some searching and trying a couple of
> > > other headsets, it seems that the problem is that the radio is feeding
> > > the transmission signal back into the cables and causing feedback.
> > >
> > > Another member of our soaring club has the same problem with his Icom
> > > using a Telex headset.
> > >
> > > After doing quite a bit of research it seems that this is a common
> > > problem with handhelds and headsets:
> > >
> > > http://www.avionicswest.com/articles/a23.htm
> > >
> > > We've both narrowed it down to the interference from the antenna but
> > > cannot find a sensible way to solve the problem other than to
> > > physically wrap the headset adapter cable around the antenna! This
> > > solves the problem for both of us.
> > >
> > > I contacted Vertex and they tell me that this will reduce the
> > > transmission capabilities of the radio. They want me to send the radio
> > > in and have it diagnosed saying that it may be a fault in the headset
> > > adapter or radio, but I find it difficult to think that two different
> > > people with two different radios and two different types of headsets
> > > could have the exact same problem and resolve it in the same manner.
> > > It also concerns me that this is a common problem and nowhere do any of
> > > the handheld manufacturers mention it.
> > >
> > > Just curious if anyone has any information or possible solutions.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Steve
> > >
>
> I suppose it's possible that there's a bad connection somewhere in the
> wire but in the article I posted the author talks about the
> susceptibility of handhelds to send feedback through the headset.
>
> The other person and I have done all sorts of testing and for both of
> us, the problem is only eliminated by chaning the relationship of the
> wires to the antenna which is what caused us to suspect feedback in the
> first place. We initially did our testing while not in the glider and
> both did further testing at home.
>
> If the ferrite core doesn't solve the problem, I'll send the radio back
> to Vertex and see if they can come up with a solution.
>
> Thanks,
> Steve

Just wanted to post that the ferrite core with one turn of the wire
completely solved the problem! Woohoo!!! No matter how I orient the
radio or leads, there is no feedback.

Thanks so much Colin for your help. Finally, I can use my headset with
my handheld without killing everyone's ears, mine included.

Going to get a bit of shrink tubing to keep the ferrite in place and to
dress up the lead a bit. I think I may write up an article with
pictures and post it to my personal website for reference so that
anyone else having this problem will be able to fix it.

Thanks again,
Steve

[Steve]

Burt Compton - Marfa wrote:
> Headset in a glider? I bet you you are actually using this headset in
> a motorglider or self-launch because of the motor noise. Hope you fix
> the squealing feedback problem.
>
> But if you are using a headset in a pure sailplane, how do you hear the
> lift, sink, (un)coordinated flight and all the other organic sounds of
> soaring? I'm not talking about your audio variometer. Your craft
> speaks to you in quiet whispers meant only for you. Don't miss this
> information it shares with you, especially in a well-sealed sailplane.
> Strive to be one with your sailplane.
>
> Keep it simple.
>
> Burt
> Marfa, Texas USA

Burt,

Check out the link that I posted for the headset.

It's a great headseat for gliding because it is an open headset (no ear
seal) and only has a speaker on one side. It allows all the
convenience of using a headset while allowing a glider pilot to still
hear all the necessary sounds you mention.

I've run across several people that use headsets in gliders. Of
course, none of them use the ANR or PNR headsets that you would use in
a powered aircraft. Most of them use something similar - PilotUSA,
Telex, Plantronics. They all are pretty much the same design: speaker
for one ear, unsealed, boom mike, and minimal over or around the head
fitting or even one piece designed to go over/in the ear.

They really are convenient when used with a PTT especially for gliders
without built-in radios.

A couple of our club members were out in your neck of the woods doing
some soaring back in July. From the pictures it looks like a great
place to soar.

Take care,
Steve

[Steve]

Just wanted to post a link to a write-up I did with photos:

http://ok-adventures.com/headset_mod/

Thanks again for all your "feedback" {really bad pun, I know}.

Steve