Trip report: flying to Yellowstone in a Grumman Traveler

[M[_1_]]

My wife and I just came back from a trip to Yellowstone in our '75
Traveler. See the trip map

http://www.chouby.com/apps/wys.html

We took the southern route through Boise, ID both ways because of the
weather and the limited altitude capability of our plane. Between
Boise and Yellowstone we flew over a vast span of central Idaho desert
with stunning views. West Yellowstone airport is located in a large
half bowl shaped valley with field elevation of 6644 feet. Getting
into WYS we landed in probably 15 knots crosswind, beating a rain
shower by 20 minutes.

Four days later we departed West Yellowstone in early morning with sun
burned faces and sore legs from all the hiking we did at the
Yellowstone National Park. The temperature was just above freezing and
the DA was 6700ft. At 200lb under gross the takeoff from the 8,400
feet runway was quite routine and didn't seem much worse than taking
off from Boise (2800 ft) in a 90F afternoon. The view from the air was
nothing short of spectacular.

[[email protected]]

Ok, I am getting confused again,,,, <G> DA was higher then the field
elevation with the air temp at 32 degrees. Standard day temp is 59f, I
guess you could have had a very"low" pressure system pass through that
mornin.....

Ben
Jackson Hole WY 6430 MSL...
N801BH
M wrote:
> My wife and I just came back from a trip to Yellowstone in our '75
> Traveler. See the trip map
>
> http://www.chouby.com/apps/wys.html
>
> We took the southern route through Boise, ID both ways because of the
> weather and the limited altitude capability of our plane. Between
> Boise and Yellowstone we flew over a vast span of central Idaho desert
> with stunning views. West Yellowstone airport is located in a large
> half bowl shaped valley with field elevation of 6644 feet. Getting
> into WYS we landed in probably 15 knots crosswind, beating a rain
> shower by 20 minutes.
>
> Four days later we departed West Yellowstone in early morning with sun
> burned faces and sore legs from all the hiking we did at the
> Yellowstone National Park. The temperature was just above freezing and
> the DA was 6700ft. At 200lb under gross the takeoff from the 8,400
> feet runway was quite routine and didn't seem much worse than taking
> off from Boise (2800 ft) in a 90F afternoon. The view from the air was
> nothing short of spectacular.

[Jay Honeck]

> My wife and I just came back from a trip to Yellowstone in our '75
> Traveler. See the trip map
>
> http://www.chouby.com/apps/wys.html

Cool trip! Mary and I have planned -- and scrubbed -- several trips to
Yellowstone, due to work schedules and other factors just not coming
together.

We've been through Yellowstone by motorcycle, car, and on foot (in a
very limited way) -- but not yet by air. It's on our "must-do" list,
however.

Thanks for sharing the trip.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[M[_1_]]

I didn't actually calcualte the DA using the E6B. I got the DA readout
from the Davtron M655 (http://www.davtron.com/m655.html).

However to answer your qustion, the standard temp of 59F/15C is at sea
level. At higher elevation the standard temperature is lower (I
believe it's close to 2C decrement for each thousand feet in the
standard atmospheric model). So at 6000 feet elevation, the standard
temperature (when the pressure altitude equals density altitude) is
only slighly above freezing.

So in the high countries, if you can walk around in a T-shirt, you
probably need to worry about densitity altitude :-)


wrote:
> Ok, I am getting confused again,,,, <G> DA was higher then the field
> elevation with the air temp at 32 degrees. Standard day temp is 59f, I
> guess you could have had a very"low" pressure system pass through that
> mornin.....
>
> Ben
> Jackson Hole WY 6430 MSL...
> N801BH

[john smith]

> Cool trip! Mary and I have planned -- and scrubbed -- several trips to
> Yellowstone, due to work schedules and other factors just not coming
> together.
> We've been through Yellowstone by motorcycle, car, and on foot (in a
> very limited way) -- but not yet by air. It's on our "must-do" list,
> however.

Ever think about putting a RAP'er trip to Yellowstone together?
Pre/post-OSH?

[Jay Honeck]

> Ever think about putting a RAP'er trip to Yellowstone together?
> Pre/post-OSH?

Nope, I hadn't. It would be fun, though.

Not this year, though. My budget still hasn't recovered from OSH!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Montblack[_1_]]

("john smith" wrote)
> Ever think about putting a RAP'er trip to Yellowstone together?
> Pre/post-OSH?


2,300 statute (road) miles - round trip.
Minneapolis to West Yellowstone ...airport.

http://www.airnav.com/airport/KWYS
KWYS (West) Yellowstone Airport

100 gallons @ 23 miles/gal = $300
+ 10% for extra driving, higher gas prices, etc = $330

No need for motels. <g>

Mount Rushmore the first night. West Yellowstone the second.

3 RAP'rs (in comfortable captain chairs) - each person drives one hour legs.
We tow a small aerodynamic trailer. Hmm? This idea has legs.

$55/person for fuel - each way.
$8/person for the oil change.
There is no minivan depreciation <g>

http://www.nps.gov/yell/pphtml/planyourvisit.html
Yellowstone National Park:

Admission: ...Minivan is $25 for 7 Days. That's it.
Camping: .....$15/night in the park. FREE at the airport.

Ok. I'm in.

I just spoke briefly (on the phone) with a guy at Yellowstone Airport. Nice
guy. Much enthusiasm. He said keep him posted if it comes together for next
year.

http://www.yellowstoneaviation.com/
FREE camping on the field - in the trees - 150 ft from your plane. Campsites
have fire pits, showers, bathrooms, picnic tables, the whole nine yards. He
said we'd be pleased with the camping accommodations.

Budget and Avis Rent A Car are on the field.

$4/day tie-down fee.

http://www.yellowstoneaviation.com/flyin.shtml
Flying into WYS info:

Elevation: 6,644 ft
Runway 1/19 ....8400 ft x 150 ft

100LL $4.66 (8/17/06)
Airport is 1 mile north of town


Montblack

[Mike Adams[_2_]]

john smith > wrote:

> Ever think about putting a RAP'er trip to Yellowstone together?
> Pre/post-OSH?

Interesting idea! It flight plans out at about 4.5 hours from Phoenix, overflying the Grand Canyon, Bryce
Canyon and Salt Lake. One stop somewhere south of SLC would be a nice trip. I haven't been there
since we took the kids up there about 15 years ago. Let's work on this!

Mike

[Ron Lee]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote:

>We've been through Yellowstone by motorcycle, car, and on foot (in a
>very limited way) -- but not yet by air. It's on our "must-do" list,
>however.

Grand Teton NP is far prettier and in the same area.

Ron Lee

[Jay Honeck]

> > Ever think about putting a RAP'er trip to Yellowstone together?
> > Pre/post-OSH?
>
> Interesting idea! It flight plans out at about 4.5 hours from Phoenix, overflying the Grand Canyon, Bryce
> Canyon and Salt Lake. One stop somewhere south of SLC would be a nice trip. I haven't been there
> since we took the kids up there about 15 years ago. Let's work on this!

Okay, for best weather (and not to interfere with OSH) it would have to
be in June, probably mid-to-late June. This is starting to sound like
a crazy idea that might be more than a pipe dream?

For me, it flight plans at 6:10, which we could easily make in one day,
weather permitting. Of course, when I rode a motorcycle through
Yellowstone -- in June -- it SNOWED, so this is dicier than you might
think.

Anyone else interested? Mary and I have been talking about this
FOREVER, and -- with my son a Junior in high school now -- it's next
summer, or probably never, with him.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

> 3 RAP'rs (in comfortable captain chairs) - each person drives one hour legs.
> We tow a small aerodynamic trailer. Hmm? This idea has legs.

One hour legs? Sounds like a slow-motion-Chinese-fire-drill... ;-)

> Ok. I'm in.

Careful. You might end up being the "party hauler" again! (There
*are* worse fates, I suppose...)

> http://www.yellowstoneaviation.com/
> FREE camping on the field - in the trees - 150 ft from your plane. Campsites
> have fire pits, showers, bathrooms, picnic tables, the whole nine yards. He
> said we'd be pleased with the camping accommodations.

That sounds OUTSTANDING. Better than I expected, by far.

> Budget and Avis Rent A Car are on the field.

Fantastic. That makes things much easier, unless we all pile into the
airplane of minivans...

> Elevation: 6,644 ft
> Runway 1/19 ....8400 ft x 150 ft

Sounds easy. It's certainly plenty long...

This could be a lot of fun!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Grumman-581[_1_]]

On 23 Aug 2006 22:09:12 -0700, "Jay Honeck" >
wrote:
> > Elevation: 6,644 ft
> > Runway 1/19 ....8400 ft x 150 ft
>
> Sounds easy. It's certainly plenty long...

Depends... A few years back, I was departing GCN (9000 ft long, 6609
ft elevation) and wasn't going to be able to clear the trees at the
south end of the runway... It took *forever* to just get into ground
effect and after that, it just wouldn't climb... There was a break in
the trees on the west side of the runway, so I squeezed between them
while still in ground effect... At that point, the ground starts
dropping off a bit and I started catching some thermals... It took
awhile to get the seat cushion unstuck from my butt after that
takeoff... Turns out that after I squeezed through the trees, the
tower issued a warning about a 9000 ft density altitude... That was
when I still had a 150 hp O-320 and as such, the climb performance
with two females and their associated luggage was definitely crap...

[john smith]

In article m>,
"Jay Honeck" > wrote:

> Anyone else interested? Mary and I have been talking about this
> FOREVER, and -- with my son a Junior in high school now -- it's next
> summer, or probably never, with him.

As I have never flown mountains, I would want to include a stop in
Colorado along tghe way to visit Jer for a class. This could add a day
or two to the trip.

[[email protected]]

funny that this thread has cropped up while I'm sitting in Grand Teton
and was in Yellowstone two days ago.
The flight out from Wisconsin took us just south of Rushmore and Crazy
horse. Once you hit Rapid City, the trip becomes very scenic and the
country becomes very rugged. got upto 14,500 for a little while (on
oxygen) crossing the mountains east of the Tetons and diverting around
the fire TFR's, then a quick drop down into the Jackson hole valley.

I'd be up for considering a return trip.

Ryan

[Newps]

Jay Honeck wrote:


>
> Okay, for best weather (and not to interfere with OSH) it would have to
> be in June, probably mid-to-late June. This is starting to sound like
> a crazy idea that might be more than a pipe dream?

Best flying weather out here is September, no question about it. Not
the slightest chance of thunderstorms, not a cloud in the sky and about
80 every day, upper 40's to low 50's at night in that area. Next best
is August. June is only slightly better than May.

[Montblack[_1_]]

("Jay Honeck" wrote)
>> 3 RAP'rs (in comfortable captain chairs) - each person drives one hour
>> legs. We tow a small aerodynamic trailer. Hmm? This idea has legs.

> One hour legs? Sounds like a slow-motion-Chinese-fire-drill... ;-)

You're focused on the one hour driving blocks. I'm looking at the two hours
blocks, used for stretching out and relaxing ....zzzzz.

> Careful. You might end up being the "party hauler" again! (There *are*
> worse fates, I suppose...)

First things first, was it a black bear or a grizzly bear - you saw walking
off with my camping gear?


Montblack

[Montblack[_1_]]

("Newps" wrote)
> Best flying weather out here is September, no question about it. Not the
> slightest chance of thunderstorms, not a cloud in the sky and about 80
> every day, upper 40's to low 50's at night in that area.


September, you say. Hmm...?

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/teamsched?teamId=2294
Jay would have to schedule it between two Home football games.

Does either side of Sept 23rd look inviting? <g>

Paraphrasing a little:
'Blah, blah, blah ..Atlas stirs restlessly in the hangar, saddled with a
full load of mogas, yearning to be set free -skyward- into yonder wild
blue.'

To be fair:
'Blah, blah, blah ..The airplane of minivans says, "Take the Honda. Take the
Honda ...it's got a CD player in it. Seriously, take the Accord to Montana,
you'll thank me later!"


Montblack
Speaking of...The Hawkeyes play Montana on Sept 2nd. :-)

[John Galban]

Mike Adams wrote:
> john smith > wrote:
>
> > Ever think about putting a RAP'er trip to Yellowstone together?
> > Pre/post-OSH?
>
> Interesting idea! It flight plans out at about 4.5 hours from Phoenix, overflying the Grand Canyon, Bryce
> Canyon and Salt Lake. One stop somewhere south of SLC would be a nice trip. I haven't been there
> since we took the kids up there about 15 years ago. Let's work on this!
>

4.5 hrs. from Phoenix? You must be flying something fast. I fly up
there at least once a year and average about 6.5 hrs. in the air.
Spanish Fork, UT (U77, south of Provo) is an excellent fuel stop. Just
beyond the halfway point, not crowded and self-serve fuel.

John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)

[Ron Lee]

>("Newps" wrote)
>> Best flying weather out here is September, no question about it. Not the
>> slightest chance of thunderstorms, not a cloud in the sky and about 80
>> every day, upper 40's to low 50's at night in that area.
>

September would be far better IMO.

Ron Lee

[Mike Adams[_2_]]

"John Galban" > wrote:

> 4.5 hrs. from Phoenix? You must be flying something fast. I fly up
> there at least once a year and average about 6.5 hrs. in the air.
> Spanish Fork, UT (U77, south of Provo) is an excellent fuel stop. Just
> beyond the halfway point, not crowded and self-serve fuel.
>

Yep, our old bird moves pretty well. I did a rough flight plan at 145KT, but it would be a bit longer with a
stop. Thanks for the tip on a stop. I was just looking at the map and picked out Delta (DTA), but have
never been this direction, so all advice is welcome.

Mike

[Jay Honeck]

> >> Best flying weather out here is September, no question about it. Not the
> >> slightest chance of thunderstorms, not a cloud in the sky and about 80
> >> every day, upper 40's to low 50's at night in that area.
>
> September would be far better IMO.

Yeah, sure, all you guys that (a) don't have young kids in school, and
(b) don't have college football in your community, say that September
is best.

In ten years, I'll be there. For now, September might as well be
January for Mary and me...

:-(
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[john smith]

> Yeah, sure, all you guys that (a) don't have young kids in school, and
> (b) don't have college football in your community, say that September
> is best.
> In ten years, I'll be there. For now, September might as well be
> January for Mary and me...

Ten years?
Does Becka have five or six years to go?
In two years you could leave Joe in charge of the house for a week or
two.
My senior year of high school, my parents took off for Europe for three
weeks leaving me in charge of four younger siblings.

[GeorgeC]

Why does "Ferris Bueller's Day Off" come to mind?

On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 13:54:14 GMT, john smith > wrote:

>My senior year of high school, my parents took off for Europe for three
>weeks leaving me in charge of four younger siblings.

GeorgeC