Flying to Teterboro

[RNR]

I'd appreciate some guidance from the New York area folks on flying in
to Teterboro. I have to fly there for the first time next week. My
typical flying is in a much more relaxed envirronment than this and I
don't want to create any problems for myself or ATC.

My biggest concern is who to talk to. The NY TAC states that VFR
flights should contact approach even if they are operating below the
floor of the Class B on initial contact. That's clear enough, but is
that what actually occurs in practice? What if I am below the floor
on initial contact and plan to remain below the floor for the duration
of the flight? Does approach still want to hear from me?

Does ATC care whether I arrive by way of the Hudson or from the west
under the 1800' floor?

The NY TAC requests that VFR flights departing the primary airports
contact clearance delivery prior to taxiing. My interpretation of
that is that they are talking about Newark, JFK and LaGuardia. It's
not common practice for a VFR flight to contact CD at Teterboro is it?

I appreciate any advice that you can offer. Thanks.
RNR

[pgbnh[_1_]]

Not from NY Area, but have flown to TEB from New England a bunch of times.
first, unless you REALLy need to go to TEB, consider an alternative. MMU or
CDW. TEB is NOT GA-friendly (unless your personal aircraft burns kerosene).
Fuel is VERy expensive, and the attitude of the FBO folks is not positive
towards real general aviation.

That said, if you do go there, plan to talk with approach and departure
regardless of how you approach. With approach, be professional, sound like
you know what you are doing, and they will treat you well. Even grant class
B clearance. Very busy airspace - you want a code and you want to be talking
with approach. On leaving, calling CD is always a good idea. Get a code,
request advisories, and let 'em know you want a class B clearance. The floor
is low in that area, and unless you like flying over very populated areas at
1800 feet, get a clearance to get some altitude.
"RNR" > wrote in message
...
> I'd appreciate some guidance from the New York area folks on flying in
> to Teterboro. I have to fly there for the first time next week. My
> typical flying is in a much more relaxed envirronment than this and I
> don't want to create any problems for myself or ATC.
>
> My biggest concern is who to talk to. The NY TAC states that VFR
> flights should contact approach even if they are operating below the
> floor of the Class B on initial contact. That's clear enough, but is
> that what actually occurs in practice? What if I am below the floor
> on initial contact and plan to remain below the floor for the duration
> of the flight? Does approach still want to hear from me?
>
> Does ATC care whether I arrive by way of the Hudson or from the west
> under the 1800' floor?
>
> The NY TAC requests that VFR flights departing the primary airports
> contact clearance delivery prior to taxiing. My interpretation of
> that is that they are talking about Newark, JFK and LaGuardia. It's
> not common practice for a VFR flight to contact CD at Teterboro is it?
>
> I appreciate any advice that you can offer. Thanks.
> RNR

[Andrew Gideon]

On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 16:22:29 +0000, pgbnh wrote:

> MMU
> or CDW.

Mac Dan at CDW rents cars. There's also KLDJ, which is just a quick taxi
from a quick train into Manhattan.

Fuel is going to be expensive at any of these airports, though TEB is in a
class by itself. There are numerous [small] airports in the neighborhood
that have cheaper fuel.

[...]

> That said, if you do go there, plan to talk with approach and departure
> regardless of how you approach. With approach, be professional, sound
> like you know what you are doing, and they will treat you well. Even
> grant class B clearance. Very busy airspace - you want a code and you
> want to be talking with approach.

TEB tower wants everyone under positive control, so you will be coded.
I've never been there on 1200.

The ideal is to have flight following (assuming VFR, which seems to be the
assumption) from farther out, which makes everything a smooth and easy
transition.

- Andrew

[RNR]

On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 16:22:29 GMT, "pgbnh" > wrote:

>Not from NY Area, but have flown to TEB from New England a bunch of times.
>first, unless you REALLy need to go to TEB, consider an alternative. MMU or
>CDW. TEB is NOT GA-friendly (unless your personal aircraft burns kerosene).
>Fuel is VERy expensive, and the attitude of the FBO folks is not positive
>towards real general aviation.
>
>That said, if you do go there, plan to talk with approach and departure
>regardless of how you approach. With approach, be professional, sound like
>you know what you are doing, and they will treat you well. Even grant class
>B clearance. Very busy airspace - you want a code and you want to be talking
>with approach. On leaving, calling CD is always a good idea. Get a code,
>request advisories, and let 'em know you want a class B clearance. The floor
>is low in that area, and unless you like flying over very populated areas at
>1800 feet, get a clearance to get some altitude.

Thanks for the info. I had heard that they weren't very
piston-friendly. I'm trying to avoid this, but if I have to go to TEB
I'll certainly follow your advice. Thanks again.
RNR

[vincent p. norris]

I'm sorry to read these postings about TEB. I flew a Cherokee into
(and back out of) TEB quite a few times, about twenty years ago, and
was treated very well.

vince norris

[Peter R.]

"vincent p. norris" > wrote:

> I'm sorry to read these postings about TEB. I flew a Cherokee into
> (and back out of) TEB quite a few times, about twenty years ago, and
> was treated very well.

In my experience of flying a single engine Bonanza into TEB several times
over the summer and fall of 2004, I have to say that any *prepared* pilot
(read: very adept at ATC comms, very familiar with the TEB airport diagram,
very familiar with TEB's departure procedures, and very familiar with all
airspaces surrounding TEB) is treated very well, or at least openly, by NY
ATC, TEB ATC, and the TEB FBOs.

Granted that fuel and parking prices are off the charts there compared to
the average FBO, but in my opinion this alone does not necessarily make TEB
unfriendly to small, GA aircraft. Heck, there is (last I knew) a flight
school with several small C15x's and 172s located right near Millionare.
That should account for something.

--
Peter

[Jose[_1_]]

> Heck, there is (last I knew) a flight
> school with several small C15x's and 172s located right near Millionare.
> That should account for something.

I got my instrument rating at "General Aviation", which became
Millionaire later on. GA was well treated at that time, (mumble) years ago.

Jose
--
The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the music.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Peter R.]

Jose > wrote:

> I got my instrument rating at "General Aviation",

Someone demonstrated a rather dry imagination with that FBO name. :)

--
Peter

[Jose[_1_]]

>> I got my instrument rating at "General Aviation",
> Someone demonstrated a rather dry imagination with that FBO name. :)

Or some marketing smarts. There is a company called "the phone
company", and during the AT&T breakup they somehow got the salespeople
to ask if they wanted "the phone company" to handle their long distance
calls.

Results were predictable.

Jose
--
The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the music.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Matt Whiting]

Peter R. wrote:
> Jose > wrote:
>
>
>>I got my instrument rating at "General Aviation",
>
>
> Someone demonstrated a rather dry imagination with that FBO name. :)

I dunno, I think that is very imaginative marketing. If you have have
several FBOs on field and someone asks for the generic "general
aviation" terminal... :-)

Matt

[Roy Smith]

In article >,
Jose > wrote:

> >> I got my instrument rating at "General Aviation",
> > Someone demonstrated a rather dry imagination with that FBO name. :)
>
> Or some marketing smarts. There is a company called "the phone
> company", and during the AT&T breakup they somehow got the salespeople
> to ask if they wanted "the phone company" to handle their long distance
> calls.
>
> Results were predictable.
>
> Jose

There was also a company named "ATNT" running a similar scam.

[Stubby]

Peter R. wrote:
> Jose > wrote:
>
>> I got my instrument rating at "General Aviation",
>
> Someone demonstrated a rather dry imagination with that FBO name. :)
>
They should put a sign over the door: "Billionaires welcome."

[Judah]

"Peter R." > wrote in news:1n8j5mo61bhrg.dlg@ID-
259643.user.individual.net:

> "vincent p. norris" > wrote:
>
>> I'm sorry to read these postings about TEB. I flew a Cherokee into
>> (and back out of) TEB quite a few times, about twenty years ago, and
>> was treated very well.
>
> In my experience of flying a single engine Bonanza into TEB several times
> over the summer and fall of 2004, I have to say that any *prepared* pilot
> (read: very adept at ATC comms, very familiar with the TEB airport diagram,
> very familiar with TEB's departure procedures, and very familiar with all
> airspaces surrounding TEB) is treated very well, or at least openly, by NY
> ATC, TEB ATC, and the TEB FBOs.
>
> Granted that fuel and parking prices are off the charts there compared to
> the average FBO, but in my opinion this alone does not necessarily make TEB
> unfriendly to small, GA aircraft. Heck, there is (last I knew) a flight
> school with several small C15x's and 172s located right near Millionare.
> That should account for something.
>

Of course it helps if you use the same thick Bronx accent as the controller.

[vincent p. norris]

>In my experience of flying a single engine Bonanza into TEB several times
>over the summer and fall of 2004, I have to say that any *prepared* pilot
>(read: very adept at ATC comms, very familiar with the TEB airport diagram,
>very familiar with TEB's departure procedures, and very familiar with all
>airspaces surrounding TEB) is treated very well, or at least openly, by NY
>ATC, TEB ATC, and the TEB FBOs.

Some years ago, Flying mag published a letter from a pilot who said he
heard the following on the radio:

TEB tower instructed a pilot to report passing a certain landmark.
Apparently the pilot didn't know where it was, and blundered past it
without reporting.

When his error was discovered, the Tower came on the radio saying
something like "GET OUT OF MY AIRSPACE! GET OUT! NOW! AND DON'T
COME BACK TILL I GIVE YOU PERMISSION!"

Yeah, it pays to know what you're doing.

vince norris

[Matt Whiting]

vincent p. norris wrote:

>>In my experience of flying a single engine Bonanza into TEB several times
>>over the summer and fall of 2004, I have to say that any *prepared* pilot
>>(read: very adept at ATC comms, very familiar with the TEB airport diagram,
>>very familiar with TEB's departure procedures, and very familiar with all
>>airspaces surrounding TEB) is treated very well, or at least openly, by NY
>>ATC, TEB ATC, and the TEB FBOs.
>
>
> Some years ago, Flying mag published a letter from a pilot who said he
> heard the following on the radio:
>
> TEB tower instructed a pilot to report passing a certain landmark.
> Apparently the pilot didn't know where it was, and blundered past it
> without reporting.
>
> When his error was discovered, the Tower came on the radio saying
> something like "GET OUT OF MY AIRSPACE! GET OUT! NOW! AND DON'T
> COME BACK TILL I GIVE YOU PERMISSION!"
>
> Yeah, it pays to know what you're doing.

Or admit that you don't. The first time I flew into Boston, I was given
the "something bridge visual" (I don't recall what the something was)
approach as I was IFR, but the weather was fairly good once I got there.
I hadn't seen anything like this on the charts, so I told the
controller I wasn't familiar with this procedure. He very calmly
pointed out a bridge which I was able to identify visually and then
basically said to enter downwind over that bridge for, if memory serves,
4L. I'm not 100% certain, but I believe this is a local procedure that
isn't charted, but I haven't checked the charts for Logan lately. Any
Boston locals familiar with this procedure?

Matt

[Peter R.]

"vincent p. norris" > wrote:

> When his error was discovered, the Tower came on the radio saying
> something like "GET OUT OF MY AIRSPACE! GET OUT! NOW! AND DON'T
> COME BACK TILL I GIVE YOU PERMISSION!"

Yep, I believe it. One late Sunday night in 2004 during my weekly commute
into TEB, an apparently unfamiliar VFR pilot ahead of me who had been
cleared to land on 19 mistakenly turned base for 24. I had just crossed
over the airport to the east to enter a left downwind for 19 when the tower
controller, who had spotted the error, came on and berated the pilot for
mistaking 24 for 19.

The controller, though, allowed the pilot to continue and cleared him to
land on 24 ahead of me, which meant that he would be descending right in
front of me right to left. However, the pilot of the Cessna compounded
the problem by really slowing it up on final and I ended up passing high in
front of him (with him in sight) for the base leg of 19 in my Bonanza.

At that point the controller had had enough of his antics and ordered the
Cessna to go around using a few colorful, non-standard words.

--
Peter

[Andrew Gideon]

On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 23:07:40 -0400, Peter R. wrote:

> Heck, there is (last I knew) a
> flight school with several small C15x's and 172s located right near
> Millionare. That should account for something.

I believe that all the small GA schools are gone. Millionaire (where I'd
rented a number of times) no longer does that, and Air Fleet moved to CDW.

- Andrew
http://flyingclub.org/

[Peter R.]

Andrew Gideon > wrote:

> I believe that all the small GA schools are gone. Millionaire (where I'd
> rented a number of times) no longer does that, and Air Fleet moved to CDW.

Interesting. I was going to confidently post that the flight school was
there under the assumption that I had seen that school every week for about
six months. However, given that this was two years ago, I tossed in the
caveat. Sad to read that the schools are no longer there.

--
Peter

[Kingfish]

Peter R. wrote:
> Granted that fuel and parking prices are off the charts there compared to
> the average FBO, but in my opinion this alone does not necessarily make TEB
> unfriendly to small, GA aircraft. Heck, there is (last I knew) a flight
> school with several small C15x's and 172s located right near Millionare.
> That should account for something.
>

I flew into TEB 2 years ago in the Lance to drop off a friend. Atlantic
Aviation didn't charge me a ramp fee for a quick turn (everyone else
wanted $60-90) We fly into TEB often in the Pilatus on charters and go
to Jet Aviation ($210 ramp fee for a PC12 - Ouch) Rarely do we go in
VFR, but on occasion have departed VFR with the accompanying altitude
restriction and headings from ATC

[Rick Umali]

vincent p. norris > wrote:
> Some years ago, Flying mag published a letter from a pilot who said he
> heard the following on the radio:
>
> TEB tower instructed a pilot to report passing a certain landmark.
> Apparently the pilot didn't know where it was, and blundered past it
> without reporting.
>
> When his error was discovered, the Tower came on the radio saying
> something like "GET OUT OF MY AIRSPACE! . . ."

I am not a pilot, but I did fly into Teterboro in a small plane owned by a
work colleague. We flew from Albany to Teterboro, following the Hudson
River. The air traffic controller communication was remarkably different as
we approached the Tappan Zee bridge. More terse, more clipped. Lots of
"heavies". I have become forever fascinated by ATC chatter after this
flight.

Anyway, I don't remember the details, but as we approached TEB, my pilot
friend asked for how to get to TEB, and after the controller verified our
direction, he said, go up the Hudson, and make a left at the Lincoln
Tunnel. The next words out of my pilot friend's mouth: "OK, where's the
Lincoln Tunnel?"

(And if my vague memory serves, we were able to spot the large traffic
ramps entering the tunnel. Still, I thought it was a remarkable landmark.)
--
Rick (www.snipurl.com/rickumali) Umali

[Peter R.]

Rick Umali > wrote:

> Anyway, I don't remember the details, but as we approached TEB, my pilot
> friend asked for how to get to TEB, and after the controller verified our
> direction, he said, go up the Hudson, and make a left at the Lincoln
> Tunnel.

A left? You must have been coming up from the south at that point (given
that Albany is north of NYC) ??? :)

You mentioned you are fascinated with ATC "chatter." In the event that you
are unaware, there is a website that allows you to listen to live ATC
communications on your PC. The ATC communications range from small
airports to the biggest, from across the US and around the world:

http://www.liveatc.net


--
Peter