Fun canyon flying

[Robert M. Gary]

After 2 years without touching the controls of a seaplane I had the
pleasure of grabbbing a CFI and going out and getting my phase 1 sea
wings. Boy, what a blast. We went up to the foothills and did some
canyon flying. Its amazing that flying 10 feet over the water at 60 mph
in close proximity to other stuff was not nearly as upseting as I
thought it would be. Its actually really cool and gives you a great
flying sensation. Its something I could never do in my Mooney. We also
did some confined canyon turns (pucker up!).
We went flying through some canyons and probably picked up 15 landings
just splashing down and taking off. We even got to fly under a bridge.
The FSDO guys often come out there just for the fun of flying under the
bridge, which is legal when taking off or landing. Although the bridge
was probably more than 1000' above me the sensation was awesome.
For anyone who has not done any sea plane flying, especially in the
mountains, its an amazing experience.

-Robert, CFI

[[email protected]]

Robert,

Where are you flying the seaplane?

I did my seaplane training at Brown's Seaplane Base,
Winter Haven, FL.

During my last FAA Wings program (#5), I got to land on
canals between the lakes. FUN! Unfortunately, the bridges
were too low to even taxi beneath.


In rec.aviation.student Robert M. Gary > wrote:
> After 2 years without touching the controls of a seaplane I had the
> pleasure of grabbbing a CFI and going out and getting my phase 1 sea
> wings. Boy, what a blast. We went up to the foothills and did some
> canyon flying. Its amazing that flying 10 feet over the water at 60 mph
> in close proximity to other stuff was not nearly as upseting as I
> thought it would be. Its actually really cool and gives you a great
> flying sensation. Its something I could never do in my Mooney. We also
> did some confined canyon turns (pucker up!).
> We went flying through some canyons and probably picked up 15 landings
> just splashing down and taking off. We even got to fly under a bridge.
> The FSDO guys often come out there just for the fun of flying under the
> bridge, which is legal when taking off or landing. Although the bridge
> was probably more than 1000' above me the sensation was awesome.
> For anyone who has not done any sea plane flying, especially in the
> mountains, its an amazing experience.

> -Robert, CFI


Best regards,

Jer/ "Flight instruction and mountain flying are my vocations!"
--
Jer/ (Slash) Eberhard, Mountain Flying Aviation, LTD, Ft Collins, CO
CELL 970 231-6325 EMAIL jer<at>frii.com http://users.frii.com/jer/
C-206 N9513G, CFII Airplane&Glider FAA-DEN Aviation Safety Counselor
CAP-CO Mission&Aircraft CheckPilot BM218 HAM N0FZD 240 Young Eagles!

[Robert M. Gary]

wrote:
> Robert,
>
> Where are you flying the seaplane?

Norcal Aviation in Northern California.
I see you're out of Ft. Collins. My company tried to get me to move out
there about a year ago. At the time everyone said you had to learn to
drive a tractor if you moved there. I've since heard its quite a nice
town. I think it made a recent top 10 list for best places to live.

-robert

[John Godwin]

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in
oups.com:

I recall taking some dual out of San Andreas, CA and did some landings
under the highway 49 bridge south of there (New Melones Reservoir?).
As you said, it was a real kick.

--

[John Godwin]

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in
oups.com:

> Norcal Aviation in Northern California.
> I see you're out of Ft. Collins. My company tried to get me to
> move out there about a year ago. At the time everyone said you had
> to learn to drive a tractor if you moved there. I've since heard
> its quite a nice town. I think it made a recent top 10 list for
> best places to live.

Colorado is a very restrictive seaplane state. Good thing you didn't
move :-)

--

[Peter Duniho]

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> [...]
> We went flying through some canyons and probably picked up 15 landings
> just splashing down and taking off. We even got to fly under a bridge.
> The FSDO guys often come out there just for the fun of flying under the
> bridge, which is legal when taking off or landing.

Note that the reason your flight under the bridge was legal was the distance
from it, not the fact that you were taking off or landing. At least one
precedent case was even posted here recently, in the context of the
"low-pass legality" thread we had a few weeks ago. The NTSB review
specifically found that taking off or landing does not legalize flight under
a bridge.

In fact, a strict reading of the precedent precludes your own operation
being legal, as the regulation in question pertains to "minimum altitudes",
not distances from objects (even though distances are referred to). Going
below a bridge, even one thousands of feet above you, would technically be
illegal by that NTSB precedent since the regulation requires a minimum
altitude *above* the bridge.

More power to you if you know for a fact that the local FSDO condones such
flights, but it would be a mistake to think that their interpretation is
universally held by the FAA, and that their interpretation is based on and
supported by the "takeoff or landing" exclusion. The NTSB has already
agreed with the FAA's previous position that it's not.

Pete

[[email protected]]

In rec.aviation.student Robert M. Gary > wrote:

> I see you're out of Ft. Collins. My company tried to get me to move out
> there about a year ago. At the time everyone said you had to learn to
> drive a tractor if you moved there. I've since heard its quite a nice
> town. I think it made a recent top 10 list for best places to live.

Obviously someone had a hidden agenda to keep you where you are.
Fort Collins is a wonderful place (often places in the top ten).
Yet, there is no ocean here. However, the mountian flying is GREAT.
Please contact me if you happen to be around Denver (or Cheyenne).
(This goes for ALL the rec.aviatiors!).

Best regards,

Jer/ "Flight instruction and mountain flying are my vocations!"
--
Jer/ (Slash) Eberhard, Mountain Flying Aviation, LTD, Ft Collins, CO
CELL 970 231-6325 EMAIL jer<at>frii.com http://users.frii.com/jer/
C-206 N9513G, CFII Airplane&Glider FAA-DEN Aviation Safety Counselor
CAP-CO Mission&Aircraft CheckPilot BM218 HAM N0FZD 240 Young Eagles!

[Newps]

>
>
>>I see you're out of Ft. Collins. My company tried to get me to move out
>>there about a year ago. At the time everyone said you had to learn to
>>drive a tractor if you moved there.

That's funny, Fort Collins is about as far from rural as you're gonna
get. It's just a 'burb of Denver.

[Larry Dighera]

On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 10:41:11 -0700, "Peter Duniho"
> wrote in
>:

>The NTSB review specifically found that taking off or
>landing does not legalize flight under a bridge.

So when is it legal to fly under a bridge?

[Gig 601XL Builder]

"Larry Dighera" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 10:41:11 -0700, "Peter Duniho"
> > wrote in
> >:
>
>>The NTSB review specifically found that taking off or
>>landing does not legalize flight under a bridge.
>
> So when is it legal to fly under a bridge?


We had a local pilot that flies a Kitfox. He flies down to the river and
lands on isolated sandbars. He was taking off from one a while back and
didn't climb as quickly as normal and realized he wasn't going to clear some
power lines so he went under them and this required him to also fly under a
bridge.

A county sheriff deputy saw this and reported him. The FSDO contacted him
and asked for his story on what happened.

He told them and the FSDO told him, "... you said the magic words 'your were
taking off'."

He wasn't violated or even had his hand slapped. The deputy is still ****ed
off about it and tried to find something else to charge him on but never
did.

This all happened this summer so it isn't a "Good Ole Days" story.

[Peter Duniho]

"Newps" > wrote in message
...
> That's funny, Fort Collins is about as far from rural as you're gonna
> get. It's just a 'burb of Denver.

Only someone from Montana would call a city over an hour's drive from
another city, and with plenty of open space between, a "suburb" of that
other city.

That said, certainly there's nothing about Fort Collins that supports the
"you have to learn to drive a tractor" comment. I find it hard to believe
that anyone who actually knew anything about Fort Collins would say that,
never mind everyone. My impression of Fort Collins, from my several visits
there, is that it's part college town, part tech industry town, with a bit
of left-over frontier West mentality. Mostly, it's pretty much like any
other medium-sized city I've seen, and there's definitely not a lot of
places to drive a tractor, not in the city anyway.

Pete

[Peter Duniho]

"Larry Dighera" > wrote in message
...
>>The NTSB review specifically found that taking off or
>>landing does not legalize flight under a bridge.
>
> So when is it legal to fly under a bridge?

It is never legal, as far as I know. If you believe Robert's post, it may
be legal in a specific FSDO district if the bridge is high enough. But I'm
skeptical of how likely that really is, as a general guideline.

Pete

[Wade Hasbrouck]

"Peter Duniho" > wrote in message
...
> "Newps" > wrote in message
> ...
>> That's funny, Fort Collins is about as far from rural as you're gonna
>> get. It's just a 'burb of Denver.
>
> Only someone from Montana would call a city over an hour's drive from
> another city, and with plenty of open space between, a "suburb" of that
> other city.

Actually people from Montana wouldn't know what a "suburb" is and would call
this "the next town/city" :-) Yes, Montana does have "cities", just
depends on your definition... :-) as Great Falls is not "rural" but it
isn't an "urban metropolis" either (50,000 people in the middle of no
where)...

Wade Hasbrouck
(although I currently live in Seattle, grew up in Great Falls, MT)

P.S. I realize you weren't intentionally making fun of people from Montana
or Montana itself... :-), but I just couldn't resist either... :-)

[Larry Dighera]

On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 16:06:29 -0700, "Peter Duniho"
> wrote in
>:

>"Larry Dighera" > wrote in message
...
>>>The NTSB review specifically found that taking off or
>>>landing does not legalize flight under a bridge.
>>
>> So when is it legal to fly under a bridge?
>
>It is never legal, as far as I know. If you believe Robert's post, it may
>be legal in a specific FSDO district if the bridge is high enough. But I'm
>skeptical of how likely that really is, as a general guideline.
>

Implicit in this warning is the possibility of helos flying under the
Vincent Thomas Bridge in Los Angeles Harbor:

http://airports.pilotage.com/events/socal/soca0698.htm
Helicopter Pilots Stay out from under the Bridge!

Helicopter pilots are cautioned to stay out from under the Vincent
Thomas Bridge. New construction on the bridge requires cables that
hang down to the water. These cables move from time to time and
can be difficult to see.

[DaveB]

On Sat, 26 Aug 2006 00:49:59 GMT, Larry Dighera >
wrote:

>On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 16:06:29 -0700, "Peter Duniho"
> wrote in
>:
>
>>"Larry Dighera" > wrote in message
...
>>>>The NTSB review specifically found that taking off or
>>>>landing does not legalize flight under a bridge.
>>>
>>> So when is it legal to fly under a bridge?
>>
>>It is never legal, as far as I know. If you believe Robert's post, it may
>>be legal in a specific FSDO district if the bridge is high enough. But I'm
>>skeptical of how likely that really is, as a general guideline.
>>
>
>Implicit in this warning is the possibility of helos flying under the
>Vincent Thomas Bridge in Los Angeles Harbor:
>
> http://airports.pilotage.com/events/socal/soca0698.htm
> Helicopter Pilots Stay out from under the Bridge!
>
> Helicopter pilots are cautioned to stay out from under the Vincent
> Thomas Bridge. New construction on the bridge requires cables that
> hang down to the water. These cables move from time to time and
> can be difficult to see.


Don't let the guy in here that has hit 30 cables see that.

Best
Daveb

[John Clear]

In article >,
Larry Dighera > wrote:
>
>Implicit in this warning is the possibility of helos flying under the
>Vincent Thomas Bridge in Los Angeles Harbor:
>
> http://airports.pilotage.com/events/socal/soca0698.htm
> Helicopter Pilots Stay out from under the Bridge!
>
> Helicopter pilots are cautioned to stay out from under the Vincent
> Thomas Bridge. New construction on the bridge requires cables that
> hang down to the water. These cables move from time to time and
> can be difficult to see.

I've seen helicopters flying under the Golden Gate Bridge several
times. On a flight a few weeks ago, my friend/passenger got some
great shots of one going under and then over the bridge with his
Canon 30D and mega-zoom lens, but he hasn't posted them to his
website yet.

I guess this is another area where helicopters have different
rules...

John
--
John Clear - http://www.clear-prop.org/

[Grumman-581[_1_]]

On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 16:34:38 -0700, "Wade Hasbrouck"
> wrote:
> Actually people from Montana wouldn't know what a "suburb" is and would call
> this "the next town/city" :-) Yes, Montana does have "cities", just
> depends on your definition... :-) as Great Falls is not "rural" but it
> isn't an "urban metropolis" either (50,000 people in the middle of no
> where)...

Kind of an "if you have a Wal-Mart, you're at least a town, if you
have a Starbucks, you're a city" ???

[Peter Duniho]

"John Clear" > wrote in message
...
> [...]
> I guess this is another area where helicopters have different
> rules...

Yup. 91.119(d) specifically excludes helicopters from the "stay away from
stuff" portions, (b) and (c).

[Matt Barrow]

"Grumman-581" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 16:34:38 -0700, "Wade Hasbrouck"
> > wrote:
>> Actually people from Montana wouldn't know what a "suburb" is and would
>> call
>> this "the next town/city" :-) Yes, Montana does have "cities", just
>> depends on your definition... :-) as Great Falls is not "rural" but it
>> isn't an "urban metropolis" either (50,000 people in the middle of no
>> where)...
>
> Kind of an "if you have a Wal-Mart, you're at least a town, if you
> have a Starbucks, you're a city" ???

Same thing if you call your saloons "night clubs".

[Matt Whiting]

Matt Barrow wrote:

> "Grumman-581" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 16:34:38 -0700, "Wade Hasbrouck"
> wrote:
>>
>>>Actually people from Montana wouldn't know what a "suburb" is and would
>>>call
>>>this "the next town/city" :-) Yes, Montana does have "cities", just
>>>depends on your definition... :-) as Great Falls is not "rural" but it
>>>isn't an "urban metropolis" either (50,000 people in the middle of no
>>>where)...
>>
>>Kind of an "if you have a Wal-Mart, you're at least a town, if you
>>have a Starbucks, you're a city" ???
>
>
> Same thing if you call your saloons "night clubs".

Does calling your strip joints art galleries count? :-)

Matt

[Grumman-581[_1_]]

On Sat, 26 Aug 2006 16:11:34 GMT, Matt Whiting >
wrote:
> Does calling your strip joints art galleries count? :-)

If so, then what is the metropolitan area classification for when you
call 'em "titty flop bars"?

Naval Homeports?

[Matt Whiting]

Grumman-581 wrote:

> On Sat, 26 Aug 2006 16:11:34 GMT, Matt Whiting >
> wrote:
>
>>Does calling your strip joints art galleries count? :-)
>
>
> If so, then what is the metropolitan area classification for when you
> call 'em "titty flop bars"?
>
> Naval Homeports?

No, retirement community. :-)

Matt

[Chuck Gerlach]

Thank you. You've made my day. Now if only I could get that image out of my mind! :-)

[Jim Macklin]

Checkout the video on Cubcrafters.com
http://www.cubcrafters.com/images/media/videos/spinvideo.wmv
http://www.cubcrafters.com/media/amphib.mpg


"Chuck Gerlach" > wrote in message
m...

Thank you. You've made my day. Now if only I could get
that image out of my mind! :-)

[[email protected]]

Robert M. Gary wrote:
> wrote:
> > Robert,
> >
> > Where are you flying the seaplane?
>
> Norcal Aviation in Northern California.
> I see you're out of Ft. Collins. My company tried to get me to move out
> there about a year ago. At the time everyone said you had to learn to
> drive a tractor if you moved there. I've since heard its quite a nice
> town. I think it made a recent top 10 list for best places to live.
>
> -robert

Fort Collins was nearly out of tractors when I lived there 10 years
ago. Half of it's residents probably woudn't admit that they knew what
one looked like.

Get just a few miles outside of that college town, though, and it's a
totally different story.

Not a bad area, but the whole front range there is growing.

[[email protected]]

Robert M. Gary wrote:
>. Although the bridge
> was probably more than 1000' above me the sensation was awesome.
> For anyone who has not done any sea plane flying, especially in the
> mountains, its an amazing experience.
>
> -Robert, CFI

What bridge was 1,000 fet above you? I can only remember one that
might fit that description (Royal Gorge). But that'd be a real narrow
canyon!

[Gig 601XL Builder]

"Grumman-581" > wrote in message
...

>
> Kind of an "if you have a Wal-Mart, you're at least a town, if you
> have a Starbucks, you're a city" ???


I've thought for years the US Postal service could save untold millions if
they would use the Wal-Mart meter to judge weather a place gets its own post
office. Around here every wide spot in the road (WSITR) has a post office
when they could very easily be served by the post office in a nearby town.

There seemed to be a real building boom for POs in the 90's where the little
wood frame buildings all got replaced with a brick building which in almost
all the cases I've noticed were the most expensive building in town.

[Blanche Cohen]

Anyplace can have a Starbucks. A true criteria of "civilization"
(or civilisation) is Nordstrom's and a quality bookstore.

[[email protected]]

Blanche Cohen wrote:
> Anyplace can have a Starbucks. A true criteria of "civilization"
> (or civilisation) is Nordstrom's and a quality bookstore.

In a pinch, all they need is the bookstore. ;<)

Or a library. Or both.