Collision Avoidance and ATC

[Bubba]

In the US, ATC is only responsible for providing separation services
between IFR aircraft, not IFR from VFR. They will call out VFR
aircraft time permitting. A glider pilot with a transponder might have
the false impression that someone is providing separation services for
them. This could happen as work load and time permit for ATC. So to
sum is up:

1) ATC is not required to inform a VFR or IFR pilot of other VFR traffic.
2) It is the responsibility of both VFR and IFR pilots to avoid VFR traffic.

Even if ATC calls out your position while thermaling, an aircraft
traveling 250 kts might only get a glimpse of you ever mile while you
circle (assuming you are visible when perpendicular to their flight path
twice in a turn). With TCAS, a glider pilot has better chance of
detecting approaching aircraft both VFR and IFR that are squawking codes
and see / avoid them first.

[rhwoody]

Headline should read - "HAWKER PILOT AND CO-PILOT DID NOT LOOK OUT THE
FRONT
WINDSHIELD OF THEIR AIRCRAFT AND RAN INTO A GLIDER" - they were
probably doing pre-landing
tasks. All biz jet pilots should be aware of what "plowing into a
glider" can do to
their program - heads outside gals and guys. Adhere to the "SEE" part
of "See
and be seen".
Bubba wrote:
> In the US, ATC is only responsible for providing separation services
> between IFR aircraft, not IFR from VFR. They will call out VFR
> aircraft time permitting. A glider pilot with a transponder might have
> the false impression that someone is providing separation services for
> them. This could happen as work load and time permit for ATC. So to
> sum is up:
>
> 1) ATC is not required to inform a VFR or IFR pilot of other VFR traffic.
> 2) It is the responsibility of both VFR and IFR pilots to avoid VFR traffic.
>
> Even if ATC calls out your position while thermaling, an aircraft
> traveling 250 kts might only get a glimpse of you ever mile while you
> circle (assuming you are visible when perpendicular to their flight path
> twice in a turn). With TCAS, a glider pilot has better chance of
> detecting approaching aircraft both VFR and IFR that are squawking codes
> and see / avoid them first.

[snoop]

Woody is exactly right. Say Bubba, do you think the NTSB will ask about
the gliders oxygen equipment and its use? That could bring a whole
'nuther angle to this scenario?
Just thinking again? snoop

rhwoody wrote:
> Headline should read - "HAWKER PILOT AND CO-PILOT DID NOT LOOK OUT THE
> FRONT
> WINDSHIELD OF THEIR AIRCRAFT AND RAN INTO A GLIDER" - they were
> probably doing pre-landing
> tasks. All biz jet pilots should be aware of what "plowing into a
> glider" can do to
> their program - heads outside gals and guys. Adhere to the "SEE" part
> of "See
> and be seen".
> Bubba wrote:
> > In the US, ATC is only responsible for providing separation services
> > between IFR aircraft, not IFR from VFR. They will call out VFR
> > aircraft time permitting. A glider pilot with a transponder might have
> > the false impression that someone is providing separation services for
> > them. This could happen as work load and time permit for ATC. So to
> > sum is up:
> >
> > 1) ATC is not required to inform a VFR or IFR pilot of other VFR traffic.
> > 2) It is the responsibility of both VFR and IFR pilots to avoid VFR traffic.
> >
> > Even if ATC calls out your position while thermaling, an aircraft
> > traveling 250 kts might only get a glimpse of you ever mile while you
> > circle (assuming you are visible when perpendicular to their flight path
> > twice in a turn). With TCAS, a glider pilot has better chance of
> > detecting approaching aircraft both VFR and IFR that are squawking codes
> > and see / avoid them first.

[HL Falbaum]

Mostly correct but---

Per AIM Ch 3, sect 2, #1 f 2 mandatory Safety Alert provided to ALL
aircraft, conflict Mode C intruder alert (I presume this applies to
transponder equipped aircraft only)

and

3-2-3 Class B airspace---e. ATC clearance and separation provided to VFR
aircraft
and 3-2-4 Class C airspace ----e aircraft separation provided to VFR
aircraft.

So---if a plane is transponder equipped ATC is required to give a traffic
alert if the controller detects an unsafe proximity. The warning would be
given on the "local" ARTCC frequency, I guess.

--
Hartley Falbaum
"Bubba" > wrote in message
om...
> In the US, ATC is only responsible for providing separation services
> between IFR aircraft, not IFR from VFR. They will call out VFR aircraft
> time permitting. A glider pilot with a transponder might have the false
> impression that someone is providing separation services for them. This
> could happen as work load and time permit for ATC. So to sum is up:
>
> 1) ATC is not required to inform a VFR or IFR pilot of other VFR traffic.
> 2) It is the responsibility of both VFR and IFR pilots to avoid VFR
> traffic.
>
> Even if ATC calls out your position while thermaling, an aircraft
> traveling 250 kts might only get a glimpse of you ever mile while you
> circle (assuming you are visible when perpendicular to their flight path
> twice in a turn). With TCAS, a glider pilot has better chance of
> detecting approaching aircraft both VFR and IFR that are squawking codes
> and see / avoid them first.

[BTIZ]

"Bubba" > wrote in message
om...
>A glider pilot with a transponder might have the false impression that
>someone is providing separation services for them. <

I don't see how you can make that assumption... where is your data that
glider pilots think this way.

BT

[Eric Greenwell[_1_]]

Bubba wrote:
> A glider pilot with a transponder might have
> the false impression that someone is providing separation services for
> them.

Would you accept "partly false"? Aircraft with TCAS are providing
separation services for them, as are most of the aircraft using flight
following and those with TPAS units. I don't know any glider pilots that
think ALL other aircraft are being separated from them, because they
realize a lot of the "Cessna" drivers aren't in contact with ATC, and
know for sure the other gliders aren't.

--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA

www.motorglider.org - Download "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane
Operation"