Tow pilot PIC

[Bob]

Did I read, or did I imagine it, that here in the US when a glider is
being towed, the tow pilot is the Pilot In Command of that combination
and as such, is the final authority of that flight?

Are there any FARs to support my curiosity?

Thanks,

Bob

[Nyal Williams]

Common sense; he has the fan and everything goes where
he points it. You have three options --- accept it,
request a change, release.


At 14:54 06 September 2006, Bob wrote:
>Did I read, or did I imagine it, that here in the US
>when a glider is
>being towed, the tow pilot is the Pilot In Command
>of that combination
>and as such, is the final authority of that flight?
>
>Are there any FARs to support my curiosity?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Bob
>
>

[Bob]

Since when has common sense and FARs had anything to do with each other
;>)
(Just kidding of course!)

Nyal Williams wrote:
> Common sense; he has the fan and everything goes where
> he points it. You have three options --- accept it,
> request a change, release.
>
>
> At 14:54 06 September 2006, Bob wrote:
> >Did I read, or did I imagine it, that here in the US
> >when a glider is
> >being towed, the tow pilot is the Pilot In Command
> >of that combination
> >and as such, is the final authority of that flight?
> >
> >Are there any FARs to support my curiosity?
> >
> >Thanks,
> >
> >Bob
> >
> >

[Bob]

Since when has common sense and FARs had anything to do with each other
;>)
(Just kidding of course!)

Nyal Williams wrote:
> Common sense; he has the fan and everything goes where
> he points it. You have three options --- accept it,
> request a change, release.
>
>
> At 14:54 06 September 2006, Bob wrote:
> >Did I read, or did I imagine it, that here in the US
> >when a glider is
> >being towed, the tow pilot is the Pilot In Command
> >of that combination
> >and as such, is the final authority of that flight?
> >
> >Are there any FARs to support my curiosity?
> >
> >Thanks,
> >
> >Bob
> >
> >

[Andy[_1_]]

Bob wrote:
> Did I read, or did I imagine it, that here in the US when a glider is
> being towed, the tow pilot is the Pilot In Command of that combination
> and as such, is the final authority of that flight?
>
> Are there any FARs to support my curiosity?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bob

When I'm at the front of the rope I'm PIC of the tug. When I'm at the
back of the rope I'm PIC of the glider. I don't recall ever hearing
of a pilot in command of the combination. There is a (hopefully) brief
exposure where the glider pilot has to accept whatever the tug does but
for most of the flight the glider pilot can end the arrangement at
will.

Andy

[BTIZ]

The Tow pilot may be "Flight Lead", but #2 is able to terminate the
formation at any time at his discretion.

I know of no FARs that determine responsibility other than 91.111 that I am
aware of.
And that simply states you cannot fly in formation without the permission
and knowledge of every Pilot in the formation.

BT

"Bob" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Did I read, or did I imagine it, that here in the US when a glider is
> being towed, the tow pilot is the Pilot In Command of that combination
> and as such, is the final authority of that flight?
>
> Are there any FARs to support my curiosity?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bob
>

[Bob C]

The tow pilot is definitely not the PIC of the combination.
I have flown gliders for hire at many airshows with
a private-rated tow pilot. We get ramp checked at
almost every show, and the FAA has never questioned
it.



At 23:48 06 September 2006, Btiz wrote:
>The Tow pilot may be 'Flight Lead', but #2 is able
>to terminate the
>formation at any time at his discretion.
>
>I know of no FARs that determine responsibility other
>than 91.111 that I am
>aware of.
>And that simply states you cannot fly in formation
>without the permission
>and knowledge of every Pilot in the formation.
>
>BT
>
>'Bob' wrote in message
oups.com...
>> Did I read, or did I imagine it, that here in the
>>US when a glider is
>> being towed, the tow pilot is the Pilot In Command
>>of that combination
>> and as such, is the final authority of that flight?
>>
>> Are there any FARs to support my curiosity?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Bob
>>
>
>
>

[Andy[_1_]]

T o d d P a t t i s t wrote:
As to flying gliders for hire with a private rated towpilot
- the FARs have changed so that a towpilot is exempted from
the compensation prohibitions in 61.113(a). The FAA should
have no problems with that scenario. Insurance, however,
could be another matter.


Did the regulations, or the FAA interpretation of them, really change
or is the SSA private rated tow pilot exemption letter still in effect?

thanks

Andy

[kirk.stant]

Along the same topic, is aerotow considered formation flying? If so,
what about the restriction about formation flying with paying
passengers onboard? I think there is an FAR about that, but I'll leave
it to students of the FARs to do the research...

Kirk
66

[Mike Schumann]

A little common sense needs to be applied. The FARs obviously anticipate
commercial glider operations, as they specifically provide for a Commercial
Glider pilot rating. Aero Tow is a necessary component of such an
operation, so even if the technical language might inadvertently prohibit
this, no court is going to hold that this is the intent of the rule.

Mike Schumann

"kirk.stant" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Along the same topic, is aerotow considered formation flying? If so,
> what about the restriction about formation flying with paying
> passengers onboard? I think there is an FAR about that, but I'll leave
> it to students of the FARs to do the research...
>
> Kirk
> 66
>

[kirk.stant]

T o d d P a t t i s t wrote:

> It's 91.111. I'm not aware of any glider pilots who have
> been violated under 91.111 for aerotowing near the towplane
> or thermalling/cruising on a ridge near other gliders.
> When I took my commercial glider flight test, the DPE
> claimed gliders have some sort of "implied" arrangement with
> other gliders under 91.111(b). It was just his opinion as
> far as I know.
>
> Sec. 91.111 Operating near other aircraft.
> (a) No person may operate an aircraft so close to
> another aircraft as to create a collision hazard.
> (b) No person may operate an aircraft in formation
> flight except by arrangement with the pilot in command of
> each aircraft in the formation.
> (c) No person may operate an aircraft, carrying
> passengers for hire, in formation flight.

Hmm...kinda leaves commercial glider pilots hanging in the wind, so to
speak... unless aero-towing is not formation flight. Yeah, that's it,
there is obviously no way a glider can formate with a power plane!

Ahh, fun with FARs...

66

[Bob C]

I have heard of an airshow glider pilot being hassled
for not having a formation endosrement on his SAC card.

Another interesting tow pilot fact: Once tow rated,
you are rated in any cat/class aircraft you are licensed
to fly. Technically, 3 simulated tows in a 152 could
qualify you to tow with a helicopter, gyroplane, balloon,
airship or motorglider.

I love loopholes ;o)

At 20:54 07 September 2006, Kirk.Stant wrote:
>
>T o d d P a t t i s t wrote:
>
>> It's 91.111. I'm not aware of any glider pilots who
>>have
>> been violated under 91.111 for aerotowing near the
>>towplane
>> or thermalling/cruising on a ridge near other gliders.
>> When I took my commercial glider flight test, the
>>DPE
>> claimed gliders have some sort of 'implied' arrangement
>>with
>> other gliders under 91.111(b). It was just his opinion
>> as
>> far as I know.
>>
>> Sec. 91.111 Operating near other aircraft.
>> (a) No person may operate an aircraft so close
>>to
>> another aircraft as to create a collision hazard.
>> (b) No person may operate an aircraft in formation
>> flight except by arrangement with the pilot in command
>>of
>> each aircraft in the formation.
>> (c) No person may operate an aircraft, carrying
>> passengers for hire, in formation flight.
>
>Hmm...kinda leaves commercial glider pilots hanging
>in the wind, so to
>speak... unless aero-towing is not formation flight.
> Yeah, that's it,
>there is obviously no way a glider can formate with
>a power plane!
>
>Ahh, fun with FARs...
>
>66
>
>

[Al[_1_]]

"Bob" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Since when has common sense and FARs had anything to do with each other
> ;>)
> (Just kidding of course!)
>
I'll quote Jim Mackin from another group:

Please note that part 91 starts with "Except..."

Al G