I want my SSA

[Bill Daniels]

I don't think there is any future in joining or affilliating with either the
AOPA or the EAA. Now these are fine organizations to which I have belonged
but the culture is very different from the soaring community and I am sure
there would be issues that would not favor us. Associate yes, but remain
distinct.

Here's are three suggestions I think should be considered to revitalize the
SSA organization.

1. Convert Soaring Magazine to a webzine to save about $300,000 a year.
This would make the articles searchable thus creating a knowledge/culture
base for all of us. Make the webzine open to all.

2. Relocate the headquarters to a city easilly reachable by a significant
part of the membership. i.e. good airline connections with at least three
active local clubs. This would mean that at any moment a rank and file
member could walk in off the street creating a mindset in the paid staff
that, "It would be harder to get away with something." It would also mean
that a large number of vollunteers would be available if needed.

Hobbs is a fine community but it is very isolated from the membership at
large. I remember when the SSA headquarters was located in Santa Monica,
California with a dozen or more local clubs from which help was available.
It was, in my humble opinion, a much better organization then.

3. Create a study group of vollunteers to evaluate other national soaring
clubs like the BGA and DAeC to see if there are features of these
organizations that should be incorporated into a revitalized SSA.

We need an SSA for the 21st Century.

Bill Daniels

[kirk.stant]

Let's all join the BGA - they seem to be thriving (relatively, of
course) and have a way better magazine and website.

Maybe we could qualify as long lost colonials....

They could teach us how to win at the WGC (something we apparently have
lost the knack for).

And they in turn could hold the UK nats at Uvalde. Or better yet, Ely!

It would be like Spain, with bigger cars and about the same proportion
of Spanish and English speakers. Well, probably fewer English speakers
in Ely than in Spain...

66

[kirk.stant]

Seriously, good points.

I would think the Illinois/Indiana/Ohio area would be ideal - midway
between the coasts, lots (!) of club activity, OK summer soaring
weather, relatively close to lots of contest venues, and to Oshkosh...

But Hobbs? WTF?

Kirk
66

[Mike Schumann]

Good ideas.

Mike Schumann

"Bill Daniels" <bildan@comcast-dot-net> wrote in message
. ..
>I don't think there is any future in joining or affilliating with either
>the AOPA or the EAA. Now these are fine organizations to which I have
>belonged but the culture is very different from the soaring community and I
>am sure there would be issues that would not favor us. Associate yes, but
>remain distinct.
>
> Here's are three suggestions I think should be considered to revitalize
> the SSA organization.
>
> 1. Convert Soaring Magazine to a webzine to save about $300,000 a year.
> This would make the articles searchable thus creating a knowledge/culture
> base for all of us. Make the webzine open to all.
>
> 2. Relocate the headquarters to a city easilly reachable by a significant
> part of the membership. i.e. good airline connections with at least three
> active local clubs. This would mean that at any moment a rank and file
> member could walk in off the street creating a mindset in the paid staff
> that, "It would be harder to get away with something." It would also mean
> that a large number of vollunteers would be available if needed.
>
> Hobbs is a fine community but it is very isolated from the membership at
> large. I remember when the SSA headquarters was located in Santa Monica,
> California with a dozen or more local clubs from which help was available.
> It was, in my humble opinion, a much better organization then.
>
> 3. Create a study group of vollunteers to evaluate other national soaring
> clubs like the BGA and DAeC to see if there are features of these
> organizations that should be incorporated into a revitalized SSA.
>
> We need an SSA for the 21st Century.
>
> Bill Daniels
>

[588]

kirk.stant wrote:
> Seriously, good points.
>
> I would think the Illinois/Indiana/Ohio area would be ideal - midway
> between the coasts, lots (!) of club activity, OK summer soaring
> weather, relatively close to lots of contest venues, and to Oshkosh...
>
> But Hobbs? WTF?


Indeed. Put it in St Louis -- fills all the squares.


Jack

[Bob Kuykendall]

Earlier, Bill Daniels wrote:

> ...2. Relocate the headquarters to a city easilly reachable by a significant
> part of the membership. i.e. good airline connections with at least three
> active local clubs. This would mean that at any moment a rank and file
> member could walk in off the street creating a mindset in the paid staff
> that, "It would be harder to get away with something." It would also mean
> that a large number of vollunteers would be available if needed.

Good thinking.

I say, get a cheap steel building at Tehachapi CA. The Experimetnal
Soaring Association and the Vintage Sailplane Association both conduct
annual meets there, they have an active glider FBO and many private
owners, and the site has a strong heritage in sailplane development and
innovation. It's just close enough to LA and Bakersfield and the CA
central valley pilots, and it's one good XC flight away for the Minden
guys.

After the move we can flip the Hobbs HQ on eBay to pay the IRS. Let the
National Association of Correctional Facility Systems Installers have
it, and its computer network.

Bob K.

[588]

Bob Kuykendall wrote:

> I say, get a cheap steel building at Tehachapi CA.

We don't need one more thing in this world to be in California.

Somewhere near Chicago would make very good sense. If it's good enough
for Boeing it ought to be good enough for the new "Soaring Association
of America".


Jack

[Bob Kuykendall]

Earlier, 588 wrote:

> Somewhere near Chicago would make very good sense...

It depends on how near. I think that hell will freeze over and PW-5s
will win an Open Nats before I endorse an SSA move to the city that
gave us the Meigs Field debacle.

Bob K.

[588]

Bob Kuykendall wrote:
>
>> Somewhere near Chicago would make very good sense...
>
> It depends on how near. I think that hell will freeze over and PW-5s
> will win an Open Nats before I endorse an SSA move to the city that
> gave us the Meigs Field debacle.

No, no, no -- not IN Chicago. That _would_ be disgusting.

There is plenty of opportunity to enjoy the benefits of the city when
you choose to do so without being subject to its antediluvian politics.

Every resource that could benefit a soaring organization is here in
the surrounding communities, but without the distractions presented by
good soaring weather.

Win/Win!


Jack

[Lew Hartswick]

kirk.stant wrote:
> Seriously, good points.
>
> I would think the Illinois/Indiana/Ohio area would be ideal - midway
> between the coasts,
> But Hobbs? WTF?
>
> Kirk
> 66

It's quite "typical" of someone on the east coast to make a statement
like Ohio being "midway between the coasts". :-)
I'm only half way back to the east coast when I'm in mid Missouri
and I'm starting in New Mexico. :-)
...lew...

[Shawn Curry]

588 wrote:
> Bob Kuykendall wrote:
>
>> I say, get a cheap steel building at Tehachapi CA.
>
>
> We don't need one more thing in this world to be in California.
>
> Somewhere near Chicago would make very good sense. If it's good enough
> for Boeing it ought to be good enough for the new "Soaring Association
> of America".

I thought Boeing moved management to Chicago so they could fire workers
in WA and not worry about their houses being blown up.

Shawn

[[email protected]]

I vote for Las Vegas.


588 wrote:
> Bob Kuykendall wrote:
> >
> >> Somewhere near Chicago would make very good sense...
> >
> > It depends on how near. I think that hell will freeze over and PW-5s
> > will win an Open Nats before I endorse an SSA move to the city that
> > gave us the Meigs Field debacle.
>
> No, no, no -- not IN Chicago. That _would_ be disgusting.
>
> There is plenty of opportunity to enjoy the benefits of the city when
> you choose to do so without being subject to its antediluvian politics.
>
> Every resource that could benefit a soaring organization is here in
> the surrounding communities, but without the distractions presented by
> good soaring weather.
>
> Win/Win!
>
>
> Jack

[JS]

588 wrote:

> Every resource that could benefit a soaring organization is here in
> the surrounding communities, but without the distractions presented by
> good soaring weather.
>
> Win/Win!
>
>
> Jack

You wouldn't want good soaring weather.
Didn't Boeing move it's management to Chicago to get away from those
pesky people who actually build the aircraft? More or less like
relocating the SSA to Hobbs.
Sarcasm aside (tough for me), the Chicago area is a good idea, and I
live in Tehachapi, California... Where we hold the "Open Cockpit
Regatta" on January 1st.
OK, sarcasm not too far aside.
Chicago O'Hare has:
> The Billy Goat Tavern on Concourse C (United T1).
> The no-name Greek place on Concourse F (USAir T2).
> The Chicago Department of Airports hidden behind McDonalds between E and F in T2, where you can dole out grief about Miegs.
> Good connections from anywhere.
But South African Airways doesn't fly into ORD.
Jim

[Bill Daniels]

OK, everybody gets a vote - mine is for Denver. Several active clubs,
hundreds of local glider pilots, great soaring year 'round, located near the
geographic center of the USA and with good airline connections.

Bill Daniels

> wrote in message
oups.com...
>I vote for Las Vegas.
>
>
> 588 wrote:
>> Bob Kuykendall wrote:
>> >
>> >> Somewhere near Chicago would make very good sense...
>> >
>> > It depends on how near. I think that hell will freeze over and PW-5s
>> > will win an Open Nats before I endorse an SSA move to the city that
>> > gave us the Meigs Field debacle.
>>
>> No, no, no -- not IN Chicago. That _would_ be disgusting.
>>
>> There is plenty of opportunity to enjoy the benefits of the city when
>> you choose to do so without being subject to its antediluvian politics.
>>
>> Every resource that could benefit a soaring organization is here in
>> the surrounding communities, but without the distractions presented by
>> good soaring weather.
>>
>> Win/Win!
>>
>>
>> Jack
>

[Wayne Paul]

"Lew Hartswick" > wrote in message
ink.net...

>> I would think the Illinois/Indiana/Ohio area would be ideal - midway
>> between the coasts, But Hobbs? WTF?
>>
>> Kirk
>> 66
>
> It's quite "typical" of someone on the east coast to make a statement
> like Ohio being "midway between the coasts". :-)
> I'm only half way back to the east coast when I'm in mid Missouri
> and I'm starting in New Mexico. :-)
> ...lew...

About a week ago there was a discussion on the Yahoo hp-gliders news group
about having a Schreder sailplane reunion. Marfa was the fist suggestion
followed by Chilhowie. So where is the center of the US? I use to live in
Omaha, Nebraska and know that Omaha is closer to Washington, DC then it is
to Boise Idaho. So my guess is that it is somewhere in western Nebraska or
eastern Colorado.

It definitely isn't Illinois, Indiana or Ohio!

Wayne
HP-14 N990 "6F"
http://www.soaridaho.com/

[Wayne Paul]

"Bill Daniels" <bildan@comcast-dot-net> wrote in message
...
> OK, everybody gets a vote - mine is for Denver. Several active clubs,
> hundreds of local glider pilots, great soaring year 'round, located near
> the geographic center of the USA and with good airline connections.
>
> Bill Daniels

That is the closest major city with a major soaring presence to the center
of the US.

I live in Idaho and it is still an 850 mile drive.

Wayne
HP-14 N990 "6F"
http://www.soaridaho.com/

[Wayne Paul]

The geographic center of the US is in Kansas.
http://ludb.clui.org/ex/i/KS3129/

Wayne
HP-14 N990 "6F"
http://www.soaridaho.com/


"Wayne Paul" > wrote in message
...
> "Lew Hartswick" > wrote in message
> ink.net...
>
>>> I would think the Illinois/Indiana/Ohio area would be ideal - midway
>>> between the coasts, But Hobbs? WTF?
>>>
>>> Kirk
>>> 66
>>
>> It's quite "typical" of someone on the east coast to make a statement
>> like Ohio being "midway between the coasts". :-)
>> I'm only half way back to the east coast when I'm in mid Missouri
>> and I'm starting in New Mexico. :-)
>> ...lew...
>
> About a week ago there was a discussion on the Yahoo hp-gliders news group
> about having a Schreder sailplane reunion. Marfa was the fist suggestion
> followed by Chilhowie. So where is the center of the US? I use to live
> in Omaha, Nebraska and know that Omaha is closer to Washington, DC then it
> is to Boise Idaho. So my guess is that it is somewhere in western
> Nebraska or eastern Colorado.
>
> It definitely isn't Illinois, Indiana or Ohio!
>
> Wayne
> HP-14 N990 "6F"
> http://www.soaridaho.com/
>
>

[kirk.stant]

Lew Hartswick wrote:
> It's quite "typical" of someone on the east coast to make a statement
> like Ohio being "midway between the coasts". :-)
> I'm only half way back to the east coast when I'm in mid Missouri
> and I'm starting in New Mexico. :-)

Actually I split my time between Phoenix and St Louis. Having lived on
all three coasts in the past, I have a vague idea of where most stuff
is...

A better way to judge the soaring "center" of the US would be chart of
pilots and/or clubs. Might make a big difference...Sure is a lot of
empty unlandable desert out west.

Anyway, Ohio crept in because of the great time I had at Region 6
(CCSC) recently - an easy drive from StL. Something you can't say
about Hobbs!

Kirk
66

[Doug Haluza]

Bill, I agree that moving the organization HQ would be an important
symbolic step as well. We may have to sell the building anyway to cover
our losses.

Boulder CO is a good choice now that Denver is a "Southwest (Airlines)
City" so it has low air fares and good access to most of the
continental US. Another Southwet City is Albuquerque, NM. A smart
strategy would be to play carrot and stick with NM on unpaid taxes, and
keep the organization in-state if significant concessions were
received. Another possible site would be Dallas, TX, if the Wright
Amendment repeal goes through.

Bill Daniels wrote:
> I don't think there is any future in joining or affilliating with either the
> AOPA or the EAA. Now these are fine organizations to which I have belonged
> but the culture is very different from the soaring community and I am sure
> there would be issues that would not favor us. Associate yes, but remain
> distinct.
>
> Here's are three suggestions I think should be considered to revitalize the
> SSA organization.
>
> 1. Convert Soaring Magazine to a webzine to save about $300,000 a year.
> This would make the articles searchable thus creating a knowledge/culture
> base for all of us. Make the webzine open to all.
>
> 2. Relocate the headquarters to a city easilly reachable by a significant
> part of the membership. i.e. good airline connections with at least three
> active local clubs. This would mean that at any moment a rank and file
> member could walk in off the street creating a mindset in the paid staff
> that, "It would be harder to get away with something." It would also mean
> that a large number of vollunteers would be available if needed.
>
> Hobbs is a fine community but it is very isolated from the membership at
> large. I remember when the SSA headquarters was located in Santa Monica,
> California with a dozen or more local clubs from which help was available.
> It was, in my humble opinion, a much better organization then.
>
> 3. Create a study group of vollunteers to evaluate other national soaring
> clubs like the BGA and DAeC to see if there are features of these
> organizations that should be incorporated into a revitalized SSA.
>
> We need an SSA for the 21st Century.
>
> Bill Daniels

[588]

Wayne Paul wrote:

> So where is the center of the US? I use to live in
> Omaha, Nebraska and know that Omaha is closer to Washington, DC then it is
> to Boise Idaho. So my guess is that it is somewhere in western Nebraska or
> eastern Colorado.

1) GEOGRAPHIC CENTER, Contiguous 48 States: near Lebanon KS
<http://www.roadsideamerica.com/tips/getAttraction.php3?tip_AttractionNo==7032>

2) MEAN CENTER OF POPULATION (1990 Census): in Crawford County,
Missouri <http://tinyurl.com/rwpat>

3) MEDIAN CENTER OF POPULATION: (38 deg 57' 55" N, 86 deg, 31' 53"
W), in Marshall township, Lawrence County, Indiana, about 14 miles
south of Bloomington, Kansas.

4) Center of soaring: ? -- the SSA may have info from which that could
be derived, but Kansas City is about half way between #1 and #2 above.


Jack




















City is about half way between the 48-State
Geographic center and the Mean Center of Population, so it can't be
far off.



Jack

[Nyal Williams]

Read No. 3 again, your geography is woefully lacking!


At 13:30 09 September 2006, 588 wrote:
>Wayne Paul wrote:
>
>> So where is the center of the US? I use to live
>>in
>> Omaha, Nebraska and know that Omaha is closer to Washington,
>>DC then it is
>> to Boise Idaho. So my guess is that it is somewhere
>>in western Nebraska or
>> eastern Colorado.
>
>1) GEOGRAPHIC CENTER, Contiguous 48 States: near Lebanon
>KS
>
>
>2) MEAN CENTER OF POPULATION (1990 Census): in Crawford
>County,
>Missouri
>
>3) MEDIAN CENTER OF POPULATION: (38 deg 57' 55' N,
>86 deg, 31' 53'
>W), in Marshall township, Lawrence County, Indiana,
>about 14 miles
>south of Bloomington, Kansas.
>
>4) Center of soaring: ? -- the SSA may have info from
>which that could
>be derived, but Kansas City is about half way between
>#1 and #2 above.
>
>
>Jack
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> City is about half way between
>the 48-State
>Geographic center and the Mean Center of Population,
>so it can't be
>far off.
>
>
>
>Jack
>
>

[[email protected]]

My vote is for Elmira. Put SSA in a broom closet at the NSM. Once an
organization owns a building then they tend start hiring employees to
fill it. All SSA needs in a location is a computer and a file cabinet.
Let the manufacturers/dealers put on the convention. Merchandise can
be drop shipped from the supplier or perhaps the soaring vendors could
handle it. As I understand it the magazine isn't published on site.
All we need from the SSA is: Group insurance; FAI racing compliance and
badges; and lobbying. And I reckon that if we didn't have a building
and a bunch of employees we might be able to afford a proper lobbying
firm if it was ever needed(let's hope it is never needed at that
level).
Another internet opinion-worth what you paid for it.
Nyal Williams wrote:
> Read No. 3 again, your geography is woefully lacking!
>
>
> At 13:30 09 September 2006, 588 wrote:
> >Wayne Paul wrote:
> >
> >> So where is the center of the US? I use to live
> >>in
> >> Omaha, Nebraska and know that Omaha is closer to Washington,
> >>DC then it is
> >> to Boise Idaho. So my guess is that it is somewhere
> >>in western Nebraska or
> >> eastern Colorado.
> >
> >1) GEOGRAPHIC CENTER, Contiguous 48 States: near Lebanon
> >KS
> >
> >
> >2) MEAN CENTER OF POPULATION (1990 Census): in Crawford
> >County,
> >Missouri
> >
> >3) MEDIAN CENTER OF POPULATION: (38 deg 57' 55' N,
> >86 deg, 31' 53'
> >W), in Marshall township, Lawrence County, Indiana,
> >about 14 miles
> >south of Bloomington, Kansas.
> >
> >4) Center of soaring: ? -- the SSA may have info from
> >which that could
> >be derived, but Kansas City is about half way between
> >#1 and #2 above.
> >
> >
> >Jack
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > City is about half way between
> >the 48-State
> >Geographic center and the Mean Center of Population,
> >so it can't be
> >far off.
> >
> >
> >
> >Jack
> >
> >

[Mike Schumann]

Another excellent idea. You don't even need a computer if you use a web
hosting company. My corporate web site costs me less than $50 / month.

Mike Schumann

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> My vote is for Elmira. Put SSA in a broom closet at the NSM. Once an
> organization owns a building then they tend start hiring employees to
> fill it. All SSA needs in a location is a computer and a file cabinet.
> Let the manufacturers/dealers put on the convention. Merchandise can
> be drop shipped from the supplier or perhaps the soaring vendors could
> handle it. As I understand it the magazine isn't published on site.
> All we need from the SSA is: Group insurance; FAI racing compliance and
> badges; and lobbying. And I reckon that if we didn't have a building
> and a bunch of employees we might be able to afford a proper lobbying
> firm if it was ever needed(let's hope it is never needed at that
> level).
> Another internet opinion-worth what you paid for it.
> Nyal Williams wrote:
>> Read No. 3 again, your geography is woefully lacking!
>>
>>
>> At 13:30 09 September 2006, 588 wrote:
>> >Wayne Paul wrote:
>> >
>> >> So where is the center of the US? I use to live
>> >>in
>> >> Omaha, Nebraska and know that Omaha is closer to Washington,
>> >>DC then it is
>> >> to Boise Idaho. So my guess is that it is somewhere
>> >>in western Nebraska or
>> >> eastern Colorado.
>> >
>> >1) GEOGRAPHIC CENTER, Contiguous 48 States: near Lebanon
>> >KS
>> >
>> >
>> >2) MEAN CENTER OF POPULATION (1990 Census): in Crawford
>> >County,
>> >Missouri
>> >
>> >3) MEDIAN CENTER OF POPULATION: (38 deg 57' 55' N,
>> >86 deg, 31' 53'
>> >W), in Marshall township, Lawrence County, Indiana,
>> >about 14 miles
>> >south of Bloomington, Kansas.
>> >
>> >4) Center of soaring: ? -- the SSA may have info from
>> >which that could
>> >be derived, but Kansas City is about half way between
>> >#1 and #2 above.
>> >
>> >
>> >Jack
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > City is about half way between
>> >the 48-State
>> >Geographic center and the Mean Center of Population,
>> >so it can't be
>> >far off.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >Jack
>> >
>> >
>

[Shawn Curry]

Wayne Paul wrote:
> The geographic center of the US is in Kansas.
> http://ludb.clui.org/ex/i/KS3129/

>>>>I would think the Illinois/Indiana/Ohio area would be ideal - midway
>>>>between the coasts, But Hobbs? WTF?


>>>It's quite "typical" of someone on the east coast to make a statement
>>>like Ohio being "midway between the coasts". :-)
>>> I'm only half way back to the east coast when I'm in mid Missouri
>>>and I'm starting in New Mexico. :-)
>>> ...lew...
>>
>>About a week ago there was a discussion on the Yahoo hp-gliders news group
>>about having a Schreder sailplane reunion. Marfa was the fist suggestion
>>followed by Chilhowie. So where is the center of the US? I use to live
>>in Omaha, Nebraska and know that Omaha is closer to Washington, DC then it
>>is to Boise Idaho. So my guess is that it is somewhere in western
>>Nebraska or eastern Colorado.
>>
>>It definitely isn't Illinois, Indiana or Ohio!

You guys are a bunch of over-analytical geeks ;-)

Where is the Soul-Center-of-the-Universe for soaring in the U.S.? The
nearest big city with major airline service is probably where the SSA
offices belong. Visiting SSA should be a pilgrimage, like mountain
bikers to Moab or EAA guys to Oshkosh.
Scary thing is, it's probably Colorado Springs :-p


Shawn

[bumper]

Minden! Minden! Oh, Pick Minden!!!


While not the population center or geographic center, it could be argued
that it is the "soaring center". And if it's not, it should be!

SSA would also be most welcome here, as would anyone who wants to visit.

Minden is less than an hour drive south of Reno (international airport), and
with good highway access too. Plus soaring pilots will have one more excuse
to visit and soar here!

all the best,

bumper

[Jack[_1_]]

Nyal Williams wrote:

> Read No. 3 again, your geography is woefully lacking!

----------

How true, that my cut-and-paste geography was hasty -- and thanks for
the reminder.

Here's the URL for those who like their government info straight from
the horse's mouth:

<http://tinyurl.com/rwpat>

And thanks for not wasting any of your own precious time to add a
corrective cite to support your accusation. This way you managed to
waste all the other NG readers' time as well. But I'll take
responsibility for that, too, and add it to my penance. Mea Culpa.


Jack

[Jeffrey Banks]

If Alaska and Hawaii are considered the geographic center is probably
just off the west coast.





Any thoughts on working with the Canada Soaring association SAC! If
it was not for our friends in Canada we would not have a region 8
contest.

We would have a much larger membership base to work common issues with.


Jeff Banks

Alaska

[JS]

The future home of Der Amerikanische Segelfliegergruppe or whatever
you want to call it should be close to where soaring is, preferably
year round.
Denver is as close to the middle of the country as you can get with a
decent sized active-year-round flying community and airline choices. A
similar organization to ours, the United States Hang Gliding
Association, relocated their offices to Colorado Springs. They could be
consulted as to how their choice of location has worked out.
I like the closet at Harris Hill idea. And the E-Magazine. This
brought up...
In this age of wireless connectivity, why not put the office in a
trailer. Park it at Harris Hill or the USHGA parking lot. Then it could
be towed to contests, conventions, flying camps, instructor clinics,
etc. Hire the excellent services of Charlies Spratt and Minner to put
the office where we are, flying.
So the staff would be a band of gypsies. What are the rest of us,
bouncing from contest to contest in RVs with trailers behind? I'll be
living in an RV for the next two weeks, working at 10 places throughout
Scandinavia. Keeps things interesting.
Jim

[Jack[_4_]]

Seems to me that when it was moved to Hobbs, the other competing choice
was Dallas. Several clubs around, 3 good airports, hundreds of soaring
pilots, etc. There's plenty of soaring talent as well as administrative
talent in the area. Real estate prices are pretty good compared to lots
of other places I've been. No retoric here, I think the D/FW area is
the place to put it... and I live only 95 miles from Hobbs...

The truth is it's actually fine in Hobbs and would me much less
expensive to keep it there... let's get it out of the ditch and get the
tire changed. It'll be back on the road in no time.

Jack Womack
PIK-20B N77MA (TE)
Jeffrey Banks wrote:
> If Alaska and Hawaii are considered the geographic center is probably
> just off the west coast.
>
>
>
>
>
> Any thoughts on working with the Canada Soaring association SAC! If
> it was not for our friends in Canada we would not have a region 8
> contest.
>
> We would have a much larger membership base to work common issues with.
>
>
> Jeff Banks
>
> Alaska

[Tony Verhulst]

> The truth is it's actually fine in Hobbs and would me much less
> expensive to keep it there... let's get it out of the ditch and get the
> tire changed. It'll be back on the road in no time.

This is not my original idea - a former director mentioned the basics to
me. Why have a physical building? Out source membership, computer
services, and merchandise, The 3 (max) paid employees can work from home
and teleconference. That broom closet at the NSM sounds about right.

Tony V

[John Schaffer]

[QUOTE=Bill Daniels]OK, everybody gets a vote - mine is for Denver. Several active clubs,
hundreds of local glider pilots, great soaring year 'round, located near the
geographic center of the USA and with good airline connections.

Bill Daniels

I also vote for Colorado - Preferebly North of Denver. Sign me up as the first volunteer

I can give approximately 2 weeks per month.

John
DG-300 "XLT"

[[email protected]]

bumper wrote:
> Minden! Minden! Oh, Pick Minden!!!
>


Minden. Phoenix. Tehachapi. Prudhoe Bay. McMurdo Station.
ANYWHERE BUT CHICAGO!

Don't let anyone ever reward Chicago with anything aviation related,
after that fiasco with that goomba daley and Meigs Field.

[RL]

Being located in Hobbs, NM is a major contributor to the general
inefficiencies of SSA let alone the serious mistakes. I would suggest
the previous posts might be missing the point. It's irrelevant that
SSA HQ be located in a good soaring location; and it's slightly less
relevant that it's in a central location. What is vitally important
is that it is located in an area where it can draw on professional
association talent. That means the general Washington, DC area or
surrounding locals. Washington is the center of the universe for
associations. Having 30 highly qualified applicants for each position,
plus easy availability to critical association resources, would put SSA
miles ahead. A move into the concentrated heart of the association
world would be the best thing the members could ever demand.

Bob

[[email protected]]

Why do we need a corporate headquarters at all? Why not conduct all
business over the Internet and let the (few) employees needed to run
the business work from home? Most of the business functions of the
organization can be subcontracted out at far less cost than we are
incurring now. Everything from a receptionist to payroll to order
fullfillment. Conference rooms are readily available at all hotels at a
reasonable cost. Meet in the city for the people attending. Or better
yet, have a Net meeting and avoid all of the travel costs. Plus the
sale of the building could go a long way toward getting the SSA out of
debt.

Tom Seim
Richland, WA

[Bill Daniels]

Tom, you make a eloquent argument against the "edifice complex" that has
plagued so many organizations. The organization is not the building nor is
the building the organization. Broadband internet makes communication and
collaborative tasks vastly better and cheaper that anything possible when
the Hobbs site was selected. I use internet based VoIP and
videoconferencing and prefer it to physical travel.
However, allow me to become the "devils advocate" for a moment. There are
many outsiders who will first ask, "who are you guys and what do you do?" A
headquarters in a real building on a soaring site where one could point out
the window to answer that question would be a real asset. Many of these
visitors might be people who could help us if the headquarters were located
near places they pass through anyway.

I don't know exactly where that magical building site is but I note that the
AOPA is in Frederick, MD on an GA airport near Washington, DC and the EAA is
located on their "Aviation Center" campus in Oshkosh, WI. Putting the SSA
on a year-'round world class soaring site near some international crossroads
might have some advantages.

Bill Daniels



> wrote in message
oups.com...
> Why do we need a corporate headquarters at all? Why not conduct all
> business over the Internet and let the (few) employees needed to run
> the business work from home? Most of the business functions of the
> organization can be subcontracted out at far less cost than we are
> incurring now. Everything from a receptionist to payroll to order
> fullfillment. Conference rooms are readily available at all hotels at a
> reasonable cost. Meet in the city for the people attending. Or better
> yet, have a Net meeting and avoid all of the travel costs. Plus the
> sale of the building could go a long way toward getting the SSA out of
> debt.
>
> Tom Seim
> Richland, WA
>

[Mike Schumann]

You're headquarters could easily be a rent-an-office in Washington DC that
shares a conference room and receptionist with 20 other associations.

Mike Schumann

"Bill Daniels" <bildan@comcast-dot-net> wrote in message
. ..
> Tom, you make a eloquent argument against the "edifice complex" that has
> plagued so many organizations. The organization is not the building nor
> is the building the organization. Broadband internet makes communication
> and collaborative tasks vastly better and cheaper that anything possible
> when the Hobbs site was selected. I use internet based VoIP and
> videoconferencing and prefer it to physical travel.
> However, allow me to become the "devils advocate" for a moment. There are
> many outsiders who will first ask, "who are you guys and what do you do?"
> A headquarters in a real building on a soaring site where one could point
> out the window to answer that question would be a real asset. Many of
> these visitors might be people who could help us if the headquarters were
> located near places they pass through anyway.
>
> I don't know exactly where that magical building site is but I note that
> the AOPA is in Frederick, MD on an GA airport near Washington, DC and the
> EAA is located on their "Aviation Center" campus in Oshkosh, WI. Putting
> the SSA on a year-'round world class soaring site near some international
> crossroads might have some advantages.
>
> Bill Daniels
>
>
>
> > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>> Why do we need a corporate headquarters at all? Why not conduct all
>> business over the Internet and let the (few) employees needed to run
>> the business work from home? Most of the business functions of the
>> organization can be subcontracted out at far less cost than we are
>> incurring now. Everything from a receptionist to payroll to order
>> fullfillment. Conference rooms are readily available at all hotels at a
>> reasonable cost. Meet in the city for the people attending. Or better
>> yet, have a Net meeting and avoid all of the travel costs. Plus the
>> sale of the building could go a long way toward getting the SSA out of
>> debt.
>>
>> Tom Seim
>> Richland, WA
>>
>
>

[[email protected]]

Bill Daniels wrote:
> Tom, you make a eloquent argument against the "edifice complex" that has
> plagued so many organizations. The organization is not the building nor is
> the building the organization. Broadband internet makes communication and
> collaborative tasks vastly better and cheaper that anything possible when
> the Hobbs site was selected. I use internet based VoIP and
> videoconferencing and prefer it to physical travel.
> However, allow me to become the "devils advocate" for a moment. There are
> many outsiders who will first ask, "who are you guys and what do you do?" A
> headquarters in a real building on a soaring site where one could point out
> the window to answer that question would be a real asset. Many of these
> visitors might be people who could help us if the headquarters were located
> near places they pass through anyway.
>
> I don't know exactly where that magical building site is but I note that the
> AOPA is in Frederick, MD on an GA airport near Washington, DC and the EAA is
> located on their "Aviation Center" campus in Oshkosh, WI. Putting the SSA
> on a year-'round world class soaring site near some international crossroads
> might have some advantages.
>
> Bill Daniels

Yeah, that old "nesting instinct" rears its ugly head, pushing us into
making irrational decisions. In reality, our public persona is really
our web site. Have you ever been to the SSA headquarters? I haven't and
don't intend to in the foreseeable future.

The SSA is in dire circumstances requiring an equally dire response. I
admit that I am thinking "outside of the box" here, but it is
definitely worthy of consideration.

Tom

[Ian Cant]

Without wishing to throw out the fresh thought, it
might be well-advised to be very cautious before abandoning
the physical headquarters concept. A main contributor
to the present debacle would appear to be that nobody
on the Board, and very few ordinary members, was ever
in the office to see what happened day to day. Cat's
away, mice play. An internet-distributed office might
be an even harder situation to supervize.

Has anyone had any first-hand experience at actually
running such a 'virtual' headquarters ? How did it
work out in practice ? What sort of safeguards were
used to ensure productivity and financial integrity
were maintained ?

My own limited experience with teleconferencing suggested
that it was lousy for management purposes, but very
effective for engineering. Things that can be reduced
to hard numbers can be disseminated easily; anything
that has human factors or personalities involved tends
not to travel well through the ether. Or perhaps I'm
just a reactionary old fuddy-duddy on this.

Ian





At 00:54 13 September 2006, wrote:
>
>Bill Daniels wrote:
>> Tom, you make a eloquent argument against the 'edifice
>>complex' that has
>> plagued so many organizations. The organization is
>>not the building nor is
>> the building the organization. Broadband internet
>>makes communication and
>> collaborative tasks vastly better and cheaper that
>>anything possible when
>> the Hobbs site was selected. I use internet based
>>VoIP and
>> videoconferencing and prefer it to physical travel.
>> However, allow me to become the 'devils advocate'
>>for a moment. There are
>> many outsiders who will first ask, 'who are you guys
>>and what do you do?' A
>> headquarters in a real building on a soaring site
>>where one could point out
>> the window to answer that question would be a real
>>asset. Many of these
>> visitors might be people who could help us if the
>>headquarters were located
>> near places they pass through anyway.
>>
>> I don't know exactly where that magical building site
>>is but I note that the
>> AOPA is in Frederick, MD on an GA airport near Washington,
>>DC and the EAA is
>> located on their 'Aviation Center' campus in Oshkosh,
>>WI. Putting the SSA
>> on a year-'round world class soaring site near some
>>international crossroads
>> might have some advantages.
>>
>> Bill Daniels
>
>Yeah, that old 'nesting instinct' rears its ugly head,
>pushing us into
>making irrational decisions. In reality, our public
>persona is really
>our web site. Have you ever been to the SSA headquarters?
>I haven't and
>don't intend to in the foreseeable future.
>
>The SSA is in dire circumstances requiring an equally
>dire response. I
>admit that I am thinking 'outside of the box' here,
>but it is
>definitely worthy of consideration.
>
>Tom
>
>

[[email protected]]

This whole discussion is amusing given that the SSA has proven that it
can't even perform the most basic functions required of an
organization. There was no oversight, no accountability and hundreds
of thousands of dollars are gone.

What amazes me is how many people here seem to see this mess as just a
normal bump in the road.

Before any discussion of relocating can take place, I think that it
would be wise to first see if there will be any organization left to
relocate.

Ian Cant wrote:
> Without wishing to throw out the fresh thought, it
> might be well-advised to be very cautious before abandoning
> the physical headquarters concept. A main contributor
> to the present debacle would appear to be that nobody
> on the Board, and very few ordinary members, was ever
> in the office to see what happened day to day. Cat's
> away, mice play. An internet-distributed office might
> be an even harder situation to supervize.
>
> Has anyone had any first-hand experience at actually
> running such a 'virtual' headquarters ? How did it
> work out in practice ? What sort of safeguards were
> used to ensure productivity and financial integrity
> were maintained ?
>
> My own limited experience with teleconferencing suggested
> that it was lousy for management purposes, but very
> effective for engineering. Things that can be reduced
> to hard numbers can be disseminated easily; anything
> that has human factors or personalities involved tends
> not to travel well through the ether. Or perhaps I'm
> just a reactionary old fuddy-duddy on this.
>
> Ian
>
>
>
>
>
> At 00:54 13 September 2006, wrote:
> >
> >Bill Daniels wrote:
> >> Tom, you make a eloquent argument against the 'edifice
> >>complex' that has
> >> plagued so many organizations. The organization is
> >>not the building nor is
> >> the building the organization. Broadband internet
> >>makes communication and
> >> collaborative tasks vastly better and cheaper that
> >>anything possible when
> >> the Hobbs site was selected. I use internet based
> >>VoIP and
> >> videoconferencing and prefer it to physical travel.
> >> However, allow me to become the 'devils advocate'
> >>for a moment. There are
> >> many outsiders who will first ask, 'who are you guys
> >>and what do you do?' A
> >> headquarters in a real building on a soaring site
> >>where one could point out
> >> the window to answer that question would be a real
> >>asset. Many of these
> >> visitors might be people who could help us if the
> >>headquarters were located
> >> near places they pass through anyway.
> >>
> >> I don't know exactly where that magical building site
> >>is but I note that the
> >> AOPA is in Frederick, MD on an GA airport near Washington,
> >>DC and the EAA is
> >> located on their 'Aviation Center' campus in Oshkosh,
> >>WI. Putting the SSA
> >> on a year-'round world class soaring site near some
> >>international crossroads
> >> might have some advantages.
> >>
> >> Bill Daniels
> >
> >Yeah, that old 'nesting instinct' rears its ugly head,
> >pushing us into
> >making irrational decisions. In reality, our public
> >persona is really
> >our web site. Have you ever been to the SSA headquarters?
> >I haven't and
> >don't intend to in the foreseeable future.
> >
> >The SSA is in dire circumstances requiring an equally
> >dire response. I
> >admit that I am thinking 'outside of the box' here,
> >but it is
> >definitely worthy of consideration.
> >
> >Tom
> >
> >

[588]

Ian Cant wrote:

> Things that can be reduced
> to hard numbers can be disseminated easily; anything
> that has human factors or personalities involved tends
> not to travel well through the ether. Or perhaps I'm
> just a reactionary old fuddy-duddy on this.

You're spot-on. We demonstrate that truth here every day.


Jack

[[email protected]]

Ian Cant wrote:
> Without wishing to throw out the fresh thought, it
> might be well-advised to be very cautious before abandoning
> the physical headquarters concept. A main contributor
> to the present debacle would appear to be that nobody
> on the Board, and very few ordinary members, was ever
> in the office to see what happened day to day. Cat's
> away, mice play. An internet-distributed office might
> be an even harder situation to supervize.
>
> Has anyone had any first-hand experience at actually
> running such a 'virtual' headquarters ? How did it
> work out in practice ? What sort of safeguards were
> used to ensure productivity and financial integrity
> were maintained ?
>
> My own limited experience with teleconferencing suggested
> that it was lousy for management purposes, but very
> effective for engineering. Things that can be reduced
> to hard numbers can be disseminated easily; anything
> that has human factors or personalities involved tends
> not to travel well through the ether. Or perhaps I'm
> just a reactionary old fuddy-duddy on this.
>
> Ian

I am on the board of a not-for-profit with 400 employees located in 8
counties of southeastern Washington state that delivers in-home
services for the elderly. The board rarely makes trips to the head
office, even though it is within a short driving distance. We are
briefed monthly by the executive director, finance officer and
department heads. The organization turns a small surplus in a
notoriously money losing business. This can only be accomplished by
very good management and a committed board.

Do not confuse head counting with effective management, because it is
not. Management of people requires the setting of goals (tasks) and
close monitoring of work product.

Communication systems have come along way since the speaker phone. I
just got back from a demonstration of Cisco's Internet telephony
systems. They provide high quality voice and video world wide:
http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products/sw/voicesw/index.html
http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products/hw/phones/ps379/prod_case_studies_list.html

Major U.S. companies are going this route with at least part of the
work force. Telecommuting is a fast growing trend, and I think it can
work for the SSA. Whether the members can accept it is another, totally
different, question.

Tom

[Mike Schumann]

How many members have every been to the SSA headquarters? As far as the
members are concerned, having a headquarters location is probably at the
bottom of the list.

Mike Schumann

P.S. People's attitude toward this might be different if there was a
historic or other draw that made the SSA headquarters a desirable and
relatively easily achievable destination.

> wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> Ian Cant wrote:
>> Without wishing to throw out the fresh thought, it
>> might be well-advised to be very cautious before abandoning
>> the physical headquarters concept. A main contributor
>> to the present debacle would appear to be that nobody
>> on the Board, and very few ordinary members, was ever
>> in the office to see what happened day to day. Cat's
>> away, mice play. An internet-distributed office might
>> be an even harder situation to supervize.
>>
>> Has anyone had any first-hand experience at actually
>> running such a 'virtual' headquarters ? How did it
>> work out in practice ? What sort of safeguards were
>> used to ensure productivity and financial integrity
>> were maintained ?
>>
>> My own limited experience with teleconferencing suggested
>> that it was lousy for management purposes, but very
>> effective for engineering. Things that can be reduced
>> to hard numbers can be disseminated easily; anything
>> that has human factors or personalities involved tends
>> not to travel well through the ether. Or perhaps I'm
>> just a reactionary old fuddy-duddy on this.
>>
>> Ian
>
> I am on the board of a not-for-profit with 400 employees located in 8
> counties of southeastern Washington state that delivers in-home
> services for the elderly. The board rarely makes trips to the head
> office, even though it is within a short driving distance. We are
> briefed monthly by the executive director, finance officer and
> department heads. The organization turns a small surplus in a
> notoriously money losing business. This can only be accomplished by
> very good management and a committed board.
>
> Do not confuse head counting with effective management, because it is
> not. Management of people requires the setting of goals (tasks) and
> close monitoring of work product.
>
> Communication systems have come along way since the speaker phone. I
> just got back from a demonstration of Cisco's Internet telephony
> systems. They provide high quality voice and video world wide:
> http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products/sw/voicesw/index.html
> http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products/hw/phones/ps379/prod_case_studies_list.html
>
> Major U.S. companies are going this route with at least part of the
> work force. Telecommuting is a fast growing trend, and I think it can
> work for the SSA. Whether the members can accept it is another, totally
> different, question.
>
> Tom
>

[jb92563]

How many people are actually planning to visit the SSA in the next year
no matter where it might be located?

I wonder how many would visit the SSA building if it was next door to
them?

I am asking myself is there some reason why I would want to visit....am
I missing something here?

Its just an administrative building with accountants, secretaries, and
some other committed individuals that are earning a living right?

Actually I'll bet the movers and shakers are mostly out of the office
rattling politicians cages and helping us glider pilots all over the
US.

So why all the talk about moving it? Hobbs is cheap...labor is cheap
and why take an airliner when you can fly a glider there ;-)

Lets just lend assistance putting it back in its proper place by
sending in our renewals early so they can pay the bills.

Help with your $$$ and leave strategic planning for another
day........priorities!

Ray

[Mike Schumann]

If you were looking for a new CFO, how many candidates are there in Hobbs,
or would be interested in relocating there? That's the real downfall of
being in such an obscure location.

Mike Schumann

"jb92563" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> How many people are actually planning to visit the SSA in the next year
> no matter where it might be located?
>
> I wonder how many would visit the SSA building if it was next door to
> them?
>
> I am asking myself is there some reason why I would want to visit....am
> I missing something here?
>
> Its just an administrative building with accountants, secretaries, and
> some other committed individuals that are earning a living right?
>
> Actually I'll bet the movers and shakers are mostly out of the office
> rattling politicians cages and helping us glider pilots all over the
> US.
>
> So why all the talk about moving it? Hobbs is cheap...labor is cheap
> and why take an airliner when you can fly a glider there ;-)
>
> Lets just lend assistance putting it back in its proper place by
> sending in our renewals early so they can pay the bills.
>
> Help with your $$$ and leave strategic planning for another
> day........priorities!
>
> Ray
>

[bumper]

"jb92563" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> How many people are actually planning to visit the SSA in the next year
> no matter where it might be located?
>
> I wonder how many would visit the SSA building if it was next door to
> them?
>
> I am asking myself is there some reason why I would want to visit....am
> I missing something here?
> Ray
>


Oh, I dunno . . . if it were in Minden, I'd probably stop in maybe once a
month and ask to see the financials. If the secretary was cute, more often
(g).

bumper

[Jack[_4_]]

I think by assuming that the headquarters is for members to visit, you
are missing an important point. The headquarters exists for a reason.
It's there to show the rest of the aviation community that we are a
viable concern, an organization of serious people that care greatly
about our sport. I believe we would be better off with it in Dallas,
for the same reasons others pointed out... travel, and being able to
attract a better CFO. However, if the CFO is a glider pilot, perhaps
Hobbs isn't such a bad place. I'm in Clovis, and fly out of
Littlefield. My job brought me here and I'm fine with it. Really not
much difference between Clovis and Hobbs. The soaring sure beats
Houston, where I came from. It's better than it was at TSA, also... but
there aren't nearly as many people in the Caprock Club as in the other
clubs, so the duties fall more heavily on the very few willing souls...
I am not CFO material... I'm a telecommunications guy...

The problem with volunteering for any organization is the time drain. I
barely have time to keep my glider in a good state of repair, let alone
volunteering for more. I worked on radios at Houston while my ship went
begging. Alas, all this to be bitched at a couple of times by members
that showed up to fly like it was a country club.

Directors, thank you! I know what it's like to volunteer your time and
money for such a (mostly) thankless crowd. Please don't count me among
them.

Jack Womack
bumper wrote:
> "jb92563" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
> > How many people are actually planning to visit the SSA in the next year
> > no matter where it might be located?
> >
> > I wonder how many would visit the SSA building if it was next door to
> > them?
> >
> > I am asking myself is there some reason why I would want to visit....am
> > I missing something here?
> > Ray
> >
>
>
> Oh, I dunno . . . if it were in Minden, I'd probably stop in maybe once a
> month and ask to see the financials. If the secretary was cute, more often
> (g).
>
> bumper

[Mike Schumann]

Maybe it's more important for the CFO to be an accountant than a glider
pilot.

Mike Schumann

"Jack" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>I think by assuming that the headquarters is for members to visit, you
> are missing an important point. The headquarters exists for a reason.
> It's there to show the rest of the aviation community that we are a
> viable concern, an organization of serious people that care greatly
> about our sport. I believe we would be better off with it in Dallas,
> for the same reasons others pointed out... travel, and being able to
> attract a better CFO. However, if the CFO is a glider pilot, perhaps
> Hobbs isn't such a bad place. I'm in Clovis, and fly out of
> Littlefield. My job brought me here and I'm fine with it. Really not
> much difference between Clovis and Hobbs. The soaring sure beats
> Houston, where I came from. It's better than it was at TSA, also... but
> there aren't nearly as many people in the Caprock Club as in the other
> clubs, so the duties fall more heavily on the very few willing souls...
> I am not CFO material... I'm a telecommunications guy...
>
> The problem with volunteering for any organization is the time drain. I
> barely have time to keep my glider in a good state of repair, let alone
> volunteering for more. I worked on radios at Houston while my ship went
> begging. Alas, all this to be bitched at a couple of times by members
> that showed up to fly like it was a country club.
>
> Directors, thank you! I know what it's like to volunteer your time and
> money for such a (mostly) thankless crowd. Please don't count me among
> them.
>
> Jack Womack
> bumper wrote:
>> "jb92563" > wrote in message
>> ups.com...
>> > How many people are actually planning to visit the SSA in the next year
>> > no matter where it might be located?
>> >
>> > I wonder how many would visit the SSA building if it was next door to
>> > them?
>> >
>> > I am asking myself is there some reason why I would want to visit....am
>> > I missing something here?
>> > Ray
>> >
>>
>>
>> Oh, I dunno . . . if it were in Minden, I'd probably stop in maybe once a
>> month and ask to see the financials. If the secretary was cute, more
>> often
>> (g).
>>
>> bumper
>

[Jack[_4_]]

Maybe even more important that he or she should be both... accountant
and glider pilot.

Jack Womack
Mike Schumann wrote:
> Maybe it's more important for the CFO to be an accountant than a glider
> pilot.
>
> Mike Schumann
>
> "Jack" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
> >I think by assuming that the headquarters is for members to visit, you
> > are missing an important point. The headquarters exists for a reason.
> > It's there to show the rest of the aviation community that we are a
> > viable concern, an organization of serious people that care greatly
> > about our sport. I believe we would be better off with it in Dallas,
> > for the same reasons others pointed out... travel, and being able to
> > attract a better CFO. However, if the CFO is a glider pilot, perhaps
> > Hobbs isn't such a bad place. I'm in Clovis, and fly out of
> > Littlefield. My job brought me here and I'm fine with it. Really not
> > much difference between Clovis and Hobbs. The soaring sure beats
> > Houston, where I came from. It's better than it was at TSA, also... but
> > there aren't nearly as many people in the Caprock Club as in the other
> > clubs, so the duties fall more heavily on the very few willing souls...
> > I am not CFO material... I'm a telecommunications guy...
> >
> > The problem with volunteering for any organization is the time drain. I
> > barely have time to keep my glider in a good state of repair, let alone
> > volunteering for more. I worked on radios at Houston while my ship went
> > begging. Alas, all this to be bitched at a couple of times by members
> > that showed up to fly like it was a country club.
> >
> > Directors, thank you! I know what it's like to volunteer your time and
> > money for such a (mostly) thankless crowd. Please don't count me among
> > them.
> >
> > Jack Womack
> > bumper wrote:
> >> "jb92563" > wrote in message
> >> ups.com...
> >> > How many people are actually planning to visit the SSA in the next year
> >> > no matter where it might be located?
> >> >
> >> > I wonder how many would visit the SSA building if it was next door to
> >> > them?
> >> >
> >> > I am asking myself is there some reason why I would want to visit....am
> >> > I missing something here?
> >> > Ray
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> Oh, I dunno . . . if it were in Minden, I'd probably stop in maybe once a
> >> month and ask to see the financials. If the secretary was cute, more
> >> often
> >> (g).
> >>
> >> bumper
> >

[Ian Cant]

Maybe most important that he be honest. And since
that cannot always be guaranteed up front, then he
should be located somewhere where he can be observed.

Ian



At 18:19 15 September 2006, Jack wrote:
>Maybe even more important that he or she should be
>both... accountant
>and glider pilot.
>
>Jack Womack
>Mike Schumann wrote:
>> Maybe it's more important for the CFO to be an accountant
>>than a glider
>> pilot.
>>
>> Mike Schumann
>>
>> 'Jack' wrote in message
>> I believe we would be better off with it in Dallas,
>> > for the same reasons others pointed out... travel,
>>>and being able to
>> > attract a better CFO. However, if the CFO is a glider
>>>pilot, perhaps
>> > Hobbs isn't such a bad place.

[Eric Greenwell]

Mike Schumann wrote:
> If you were looking for a new CFO, how many candidates are there in Hobbs,
> or would be interested in relocating there? That's the real downfall of
> being in such an obscure location.

I don't know, but I'll bet you haven't researched the job market in
Hobbs, either. Have you done the research for any of the other places
mentioned, like Elmira, Colorado Springs, or Chicago, and determined
what a CFO would cost? It might be easy to find a CFO on Hobbs if we
paid a Chicago salary. Besides, we only need one CFO, so it's not like
we're trying to staff a major corporation, and have to line up 500
applicants to have enough bodies to hire.

--
Note: email address new as of 9/4/2006
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA

"Transponders in Sailplanes" on the Soaring Safety Foundation website
www.soaringsafety.org/prevention/articles.html

"A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org

[Jack[_6_]]

Eric Greenwell wrote:

> Mike Schumann wrote:
>> If you were looking for a new CFO, how many candidates are there in
>> Hobbs, or would be interested in relocating there? That's the real
>> downfall of being in such an obscure location.
>
> I don't know, but I'll bet you haven't researched the job market in
> Hobbs, either. Have you done the research for any of the other places
> mentioned, like Elmira, Colorado Springs, or Chicago, and determined
> what a CFO would cost? It might be easy to find a CFO on Hobbs if we
> paid a Chicago salary. Besides, we only need one CFO, so it's not like
> we're trying to staff a major corporation, and have to line up 500
> applicants to have enough bodies to hire.

Yeah, look how much we saved so far by having a Hobbs CFO.


Jack

[01-- Zero One]

He was not from Hobbs.



-- zero one --











"Jack" > wrote in message
m:

> Eric Greenwell wrote:
>
> > Mike Schumann wrote:
> >> If you were looking for a new CFO, how many candidates are there in
> >> Hobbs, or would be interested in relocating there? That's the real
> >> downfall of being in such an obscure location.
> >
> > I don't know, but I'll bet you haven't researched the job market in
> > Hobbs, either. Have you done the research for any of the other places
> > mentioned, like Elmira, Colorado Springs, or Chicago, and determined
> > what a CFO would cost? It might be easy to find a CFO on Hobbs if we
> > paid a Chicago salary. Besides, we only need one CFO, so it's not like
> > we're trying to staff a major corporation, and have to line up 500
> > applicants to have enough bodies to hire.
>
> Yeah, look how much we saved so far by having a Hobbs CFO.
>
>
> Jack

[Jack[_6_]]

01-- Zero One wrote:

> He [SSA CFO] was not from Hobbs.

The point is, SSA needs to be run just a little differently. Part of the
required new character of the organization should be to locate its
necessary physical headquarters in a place that is consistent with both
its responsibilities and its reason for existing.

A center of business, transportation, and soaring should be chosen. No
more hinterland locations, nor a retreat from the need to be able to
walk out the door and fly a glider of an afternoon. A location with a
connection to the development of soaring in the US would be a
significant advantage.

How many alternatives does that leave us? Very few, and none of them are
Hobbs NM.


Jack

[Nyal Williams]

Faulty logic, Jack. It isn't about geography; there
are crooks everywhere.

At 13:36 19 September 2006, Jack wrote:
>Eric Greenwell wrote:
>
>> Mike Schumann wrote:
>>> If you were looking for a new CFO, how many candidates
>>>are there in
>>> Hobbs, or would be interested in relocating there?
>>> That's the real
>>> downfall of being in such an obscure location.
>>
>> I don't know, but I'll bet you haven't researched
>>the job market in
>> Hobbs, either. Have you done the research for any
>>of the other places
>> mentioned, like Elmira, Colorado Springs, or Chicago,
>>and determined
>> what a CFO would cost? It might be easy to find a
>>CFO on Hobbs if we
>> paid a Chicago salary. Besides, we only need one CFO,
>>so it's not like
>> we're trying to staff a major corporation, and have
>>to line up 500
>> applicants to have enough bodies to hire.
>
>Yeah, look how much we saved so far by having a Hobbs
>CFO.
>
>
>Jack
>

[Jack[_6_]]

Nyal Williams wrote:

> It isn't about geography; there
> are crooks everywhere.

Of course. See my later post. But, geography does play a part in
determining the right location for SSA HQ, for several reasons having
nothing to do with morality.

I have spent years living and later visiting in that region of the US
and I know that the people there are among the finest souls to be found
anywhere.


Jack

[Papa3]

Nyal Williams wrote:
> Faulty logic, Jack. It isn't about geography; there
> are crooks everywhere.
>
> At 13:36 19 September 2006, Jack wrote:
> >Eric Greenwell wrote:
> >
> >> Mike Schumann wrote:
> >>> If you were looking for a new CFO, how many candidates
> >>>are there in
> >>> Hobbs, or would be interested in relocating there?
> >>> That's the real
> >>> downfall of being in such an obscure location.
> >>

Really, there are a couple of issues underlying this:

- Availability of a deep enough talent pool to allow for multiple,
qualified candidates to be sourced locally.
- Barring a local talent pool, the desirability of the environment as
a place to relocate a family. This is a way to broaden the talent
pool.
- Accessiblity for both planned and unplanned visits.

A thought on this last point. Over the last 7 years, I've been part of
a team which started up a global company. Despite extensive use of
phone, video, Web meetings, etc. there's still no substitute for
face-to-face interaction. I've noticed that the ability to get an
executive to visit any location is almost directly proportional to the
quality of the airline service. I'm sure it's the same for our
board members, who are, for the most part, extremely busy individuals .
Even if we do move toward more of a "virtual organization" (which I
fully support), we still ought to be in a position to drop in (planned
or unplanned) on HQ (even if HQ is just 5,000 square feet in some
office complex). As a straw model, I'd say that any location we
choose must be within a 1 hour drive of a major airport (defined as
one having direct service from any of the 20 or so major hubs in the
US). There's obviously a lot more to site selection than that, but
it's certainly one of the knockout criteria in my book.

P3

[Doug Haluza]

I think it would be even better if it was a cab ride from a Southwest
Arlines airport. This would make it fast and cheap for people to
conduct business at HQ. The two nearest cities with soaring bases that
fit this are Albuquerque and Denver.
>
> A thought on this last point. Over the last 7 years, I've been part of
> a team which started up a global company. Despite extensive use of
> phone, video, Web meetings, etc. there's still no substitute for
> face-to-face interaction. I've noticed that the ability to get an
> executive to visit any location is almost directly proportional to the
> quality of the airline service. I'm sure it's the same for our
> board members, who are, for the most part, extremely busy individuals .
> Even if we do move toward more of a "virtual organization" (which I
> fully support), we still ought to be in a position to drop in (planned
> or unplanned) on HQ (even if HQ is just 5,000 square feet in some
> office complex). As a straw model, I'd say that any location we
> choose must be within a 1 hour drive of a major airport (defined as
> one having direct service from any of the 20 or so major hubs in the
> US). There's obviously a lot more to site selection than that, but
> it's certainly one of the knockout criteria in my book.
>
> P3

[01-- Zero One]

Nyal,



You might want to check the definition of "libel".



Larry Goddard

-- zero one -





"Nyal Williams" > wrote in
message :

> Faulty logic, Jack. It isn't about geography; there
> are crooks everywhere.
>
> At 13:36 19 September 2006, Jack wrote:
> >Eric Greenwell wrote:
> >
> >> Mike Schumann wrote:
> >>> If you were looking for a new CFO, how many candidates
> >>>are there in
> >>> Hobbs, or would be interested in relocating there?
> >>> That's the real
> >>> downfall of being in such an obscure location.
> >>
> >> I don't know, but I'll bet you haven't researched
> >>the job market in
> >> Hobbs, either. Have you done the research for any
> >>of the other places
> >> mentioned, like Elmira, Colorado Springs, or Chicago,
> >>and determined
> >> what a CFO would cost? It might be easy to find a
> >>CFO on Hobbs if we
> >> paid a Chicago salary. Besides, we only need one CFO,
> >>so it's not like
> >> we're trying to staff a major corporation, and have
> >>to line up 500
> >> applicants to have enough bodies to hire.
> >
> >Yeah, look how much we saved so far by having a Hobbs
> >CFO.
> >
> >
> >Jack
> >

[Nyal Williams]

I have labeled no one. My comment was only concerned
with the comment about Hobbs.

At 17:54 19 September 2006, 01-- Zero One wrote:
>Nyal,
>
>
>
>You might want to check the definition of 'libel'.
>
>
>
>Larry Goddard
>
>-- zero one -
>
>
>
>
>
>'Nyal Williams' wrote in
>message :
>
>> Faulty logic, Jack. It isn't about geography; there
>> are crooks everywhere.
>>
>> At 13:36 19 September 2006, Jack wrote:
>> >Eric Greenwell wrote:
>> >
>> >> Mike Schumann wrote:
>> >>> If you were looking for a new CFO, how many candidates
>> >>>are there in
>> >>> Hobbs, or would be interested in relocating there?
>> >>> That's the real
>> >>> downfall of being in such an obscure location.
>> >>
>> >> I don't know, but I'll bet you haven't researched
>> >>the job market in
>> >> Hobbs, either. Have you done the research for any
>> >>of the other places
>> >> mentioned, like Elmira, Colorado Springs, or Chicago,
>> >>and determined
>> >> what a CFO would cost? It might be easy to find a
>> >>CFO on Hobbs if we
>> >> paid a Chicago salary. Besides, we only need one
>>>>CFO,
>> >>so it's not like
>> >> we're trying to staff a major corporation, and have
>> >>to line up 500
>> >> applicants to have enough bodies to hire.
>> >
>> >Yeah, look how much we saved so far by having a Hobbs
>> >CFO.
>> >
>> >
>> >Jack
>> >
>
>

[Nyal Williams]

How about Hobbs, Indiana; it isn't that far from Indianapolis
International. Our club considered buying a farm there
as a place to operate. <grin>

As long as we're playing this game, and it really is
just a game, howzabout Dayton? One of the largest
club operations in the country is located there. If
Dayton airport doesn't qualify as a place to fly in
commercially, then Cincinnati isn't far away. More
centrally located among the directors, governors, etc.



At 16:18 19 September 2006, Papa3 wrote:
>snip>
>Really, there are a couple of issues underlying this:
>
>- Availability of a deep enough talent pool to allow
>for multiple,
>qualified candidates to be sourced locally.
>- Barring a local talent pool, the desirability of
>the environment as
>a place to relocate a family. This is a way to broaden
>the talent
>pool.
>- Accessiblity for both planned and unplanned visits.
>
>A thought on this last point. Over the last 7 years,
>I've been part of
>a team which started up a global company. Despite
>extensive use of
>phone, video, Web meetings, etc. there's still no substitute
>for
>face-to-face interaction. I've noticed that the ability
>to get an
>executive to visit any location is almost directly
>proportional to the
>quality of the airline service. I'm sure it's the
>same for our
>board members, who are, for the most part, extremely
>busy individuals .
> Even if we do move toward more of a 'virtual organization'
>(which I
>fully support), we still ought to be in a position
>to drop in (planned
>or unplanned) on HQ (even if HQ is just 5,000 square
>feet in some
>office complex). As a straw model, I'd say that any
>location we
>choose must be within a 1 hour drive of a major airport
>(defined as
>one having direct service from any of the 20 or so
>major hubs in the
>US). There's obviously a lot more to site selection
>than that, but
>it's certainly one of the knockout criteria in my book.
>
>P3
>
>

[Mike Schumann]

How about Stanton, MN, 30 miles south of Mpls?

Mike Schumann

"Jack" > wrote in message
...
> 01-- Zero One wrote:
>
>> He [SSA CFO] was not from Hobbs.
>
> The point is, SSA needs to be run just a little differently. Part of the
> required new character of the organization should be to locate its
> necessary physical headquarters in a place that is consistent with both
> its responsibilities and its reason for existing.
>
> A center of business, transportation, and soaring should be chosen. No
> more hinterland locations, nor a retreat from the need to be able to walk
> out the door and fly a glider of an afternoon. A location with a
> connection to the development of soaring in the US would be a significant
> advantage.
>
> How many alternatives does that leave us? Very few, and none of them are
> Hobbs NM.
>
>
> Jack

[Doug]

Was he from San Quentin?


"01-- Zero One" > wrote in message
. ..
He was not from Hobbs.

-- zero one --





"Jack" > wrote in message
m:

> Eric Greenwell wrote:
>
> > Mike Schumann wrote:
> >> If you were looking for a new CFO, how many candidates are there in
> >> Hobbs, or would be interested in relocating there? That's the real
> >> downfall of being in such an obscure location.
> >
> > I don't know, but I'll bet you haven't researched the job market in
> > Hobbs, either. Have you done the research for any of the other places
> > mentioned, like Elmira, Colorado Springs, or Chicago, and determined
> > what a CFO would cost? It might be easy to find a CFO on Hobbs if we
> > paid a Chicago salary. Besides, we only need one CFO, so it's not like
> > we're trying to staff a major corporation, and have to line up 500
> > applicants to have enough bodies to hire.
>
> Yeah, look how much we saved so far by having a Hobbs CFO.
>
>
> Jack

[SkySoar]

I'd say throw the D.C./MD/Northern VA region into the mix too. It's not
the soaring capitol of the USA, but it is the association capitol of
the world, lots of association-experienced staff are available, and if
you want a lobbying presence on the hill to help protect us from the
bureaucrats, well then...

Bob

[[email protected]]

01-- Zero One wrote:
> Nyal,
>
>
>
> You might want to check the definition of "libel".
>
>
>
> Larry Goddard

Nyal wrote " there are crooks everywhere", which is a true statement
(truth is one of the valid defenses against libel lawsuits).

Tom Seim
2G
Richland, WA