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5-BG
September 8th 06, 09:44 PM
The most recent note to members from the board answers some questions but raises many more.

there seem to be two operative theories being investigated:
1. incompetence then panic resulted in the cfo and the ED knowingly conspiring to withhold information and to actually present false reports. Non payment of obligations was due to a shortfall in available cash and they incompetently choose to hide the situation rather than to cut costs.
2. The money was misappropriated (stolen) and disappeared into someones pocket. This was covered up for years by falsifying financials.

the note states "
Your first letter reported that the CFAO claimed his reason for making a unilateral decision not to pay withholding taxes was because of "...a lack of available cash on hand..." Does the Executive Committee believe this?

No. This is why a thorough investigation is underway. "

I guess the board feels #2 is the way things are headed.



We have yet to hear about the status of funds that are sequestered in restricted and unrestricted special accounts for the purpose of furthering special programs. These accounts are not consolidated in the general financial reporting. The first note suggested that these accounts could be a source of emergency funding to pay back taxes.

the note goes on"

SSA Bylaws require a yearly audit. When was this last accomplished?

Our accountants accomplished the last audit on October 31, 2002.

Why has an audit (or outside financial review) not been done since 2002?

The SSA hired its first CFAO during 2002. In retrospect, this may have led to a false sense of security on the part of the Board. Over the ensuing years, the Board decided not to spend funds on audits, instead allocating money on other tasks felt necessary to grow the Society. In retrospect, this was obviously "penny wise, and pound foolish." A full audit by an outside party is planned. "



The board has now public stated that it acted in direct violation of the formal bylaws of the organization. To the extent that the board willfully and knowingly took an action that was outside the bounds of its authority, it is probably liable for damages on a personal level.

Organizations often have insurance policies to protect shareholders/members from illegal acts by officers/boards. I wonder if SSA has such coverage? Of course, the insurance company would, after paying, go after the deep pockets of any involved.

Likewise, the accountants probably have E&O insurance.



OK here is the point... The SSA needs to file for bankruptcy and to be reorganized. A master needs to be appointed by the court to investigate and to vigorously pursue any and all avenues to recapture the lost funds if in fact they were stolen and if in fact that theft was facilitated by an illegal action by the board. To have the board oversee the investigation is a basic conflict of interest and may result in one avenue of recourse being ignored. I simply cannot see the board voting to sue itself individually or as a group.

it is a shame that the decision, taken in 2003, not to have an audit as required by the bylaws, is going to come back to haunt those who made the decision.



we have already seen what happens when the fox is left to guard the henhouse..

Greg Arnold
September 8th 06, 10:08 PM
>
> */SSA Bylaws require a yearly audit. When was this last accomplished? /*
>
> **Our accountants accomplished the last audit on October 31, 2002.
>
> */Why has an audit (or outside financial review) not been done since
> 2002? /*
>
> **The SSA hired its first CFAO during 2002. In retrospect, this may have
> led to a false sense of security on the part of the Board. Over the
> ensuing years, the Board decided not to spend funds on audits, instead
> allocating money on other tasks felt necessary to grow the Society. In
> retrospect, this was obviously “penny wise, and pound foolish.” A full
> audit by an outside party is planned. "

The tone of this part of the SSA answer is not encouraging. From
reading this, you would think that the decision not to follow the bylaws
was a business decision like any other -- "the Board decided not to
spend money on audits". In fact, however, the Board was required by law
to follow the bylaws, and it intentionally decided not to do so. It did
not have the discretion to decide whether or not to spend money on
audits, so the failure to do annual audits was not merely a matter of
"penny wise, and pound foolish." Either the Board still does not
understand this, or it is madly spinning the facts. Perhaps this
language was written by lawyers, who are professional fact spinners, but
why didn't anyone on the Board put their foot down and say "Hey, we have
to be honest with our members?"


>
> The board has now public stated that it acted in direct violation of
> the formal bylaws of the organization. To the extent that the board
> willfully and knowingly took an action that was outside the bounds of
> its authority, it is probably liable for damages on a personal level.

alice
September 8th 06, 10:12 PM
5-BG wrote:
> The most recent note to members from the board answers some questions but raises many more.
>
> there seem to be two operative theories being investigated:
> 1. incompetence then panic resulted in the cfo and the ED knowingly conspiring to withhold information and to actually present false reports. Non payment of obligations was due to a shortfall in available cash and they incompetently choose to hide the situation rather than to cut costs.
> 2. The money was misappropriated (stolen) and disappeared into someones pocket. This was covered up for years by falsifying financials.
>
> the note states "
> Your first letter reported that the CFAO claimed his reason for making a unilateral decision not to pay withholding taxes was because of "...a lack of available cash on hand..." Does the Executive Committee believe this?
>
> No. This is why a thorough investigation is underway. "
>
> I guess the board feels #2 is the way things are headed.
>
>
>
> We have yet to hear about the status of funds that are sequestered in restricted and unrestricted special accounts for the purpose of furthering special programs. These accounts are not consolidated in the general financial reporting. The first note suggested that these accounts could be a source of emergency funding to pay back taxes.
>
> the note goes on"
>
> SSA Bylaws require a yearly audit. When was this last accomplished?
>
> Our accountants accomplished the last audit on October 31, 2002.
>
> Why has an audit (or outside financial review) not been done since 2002?
>
> The SSA hired its first CFAO during 2002. In retrospect, this may have led to a false sense of security on the part of the Board. Over the ensuing years, the Board decided not to spend funds on audits, instead allocating money on other tasks felt necessary to grow the Society. In retrospect, this was obviously "penny wise, and pound foolish." A full audit by an outside party is planned. "
>
>
>
> The board has now public stated that it acted in direct violation of the formal bylaws of the organization. To the extent that the board willfully and knowingly took an action that was outside the bounds of its authority, it is probably liable for damages on a personal level.
>
> Organizations often have insurance policies to protect shareholders/members from illegal acts by officers/boards. I wonder if SSA has such coverage? Of course, the insurance company would, after paying, go after the deep pockets of any involved.
>
> Likewise, the accountants probably have E&O insurance.
>
>
>
> OK here is the point... The SSA needs to file for bankruptcy and to be reorganized. A master needs to be appointed by the court to investigate and to vigorously pursue any and all avenues to recapture the lost funds if in fact they were stolen and if in fact that theft was facilitated by an illegal action by the board. To have the board oversee the investigation is a basic conflict of interest and may result in one avenue of recourse being ignored. I simply cannot see the board voting to sue itself individually or as a group.
>
> it is a shame that the decision, taken in 2003, not to have an audit as required by the bylaws, is going to come back to haunt those who made the decision.
>
>
>
> we have already seen what happens when the fox is left to guard the henhouse..
>
> ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C6D333.BC529780
> Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> X-Google-AttachSize: 4413
>
> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
> <HTML><HEAD>
> <META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2963" name=GENERATOR>
> <STYLE></STYLE>
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> <BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
> <DIV><FONT face=Arial>&nbsp; The most recent note to members from the board
> answers some questions but raises many more.</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=Arial>&nbsp;there seem to be two operative theories being
> investigated:</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=Arial>1. incompetence then panic resulted in the cfo and the ED
> knowingly conspiring to withhold information and to actually present false&nbsp;
> reports. Non payment of obligations&nbsp; was due to a shortfall in available
> cash and they incompetently choose to hide the situation rather than to cut
> costs.</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=Arial>2. The money was misappropriated (stolen) and disappeared
> into someones pocket. This was covered up for years&nbsp; by falsifying
> financials.</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=Arial>&nbsp; the note states "
> <P><EM><STRONG>Your first letter reported that the CFAO claimed his reason for
> making a unilateral decision not to pay withholding taxes was because of "...a
> lack of available cash on hand..." Does the Executive Committee believe
> this?</STRONG></EM></P>
> <P><STRONG></STRONG>No. This is why a thorough investigation is underway. "</P>
> <P>&nbsp; I guess the board feels #2 is the way things are headed.</P>
> <P>&nbsp;</P>
> <P>&nbsp;&nbsp; We have yet to hear about the status of funds that are
> sequestered in restricted and unrestricted special accounts for the purpose of
> furthering special programs. These accounts are&nbsp; not consolidated in the
> general financial reporting.&nbsp; The first note suggested that these accounts
> could be a source of emergency funding&nbsp; to pay back taxes. </P>
> <P>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; the note goes on"</P>
> <P><STRONG><EM>SSA Bylaws require a yearly audit. When was this last
> accomplished? </EM></STRONG></P>
> <P><STRONG></STRONG>Our accountants accomplished the last audit on October 31,
> 2002. </P>
> <P><STRONG><EM>Why has an audit (or outside financial review) not been done
> since 2002? </EM></STRONG></P>
> <P><STRONG></STRONG>The SSA hired its first CFAO during 2002. In retrospect,
> this may have led to a false sense of security on the part of the Board. Over
> the ensuing years, the Board decided not to spend funds on audits, instead
> allocating money on other tasks felt necessary to grow the Society. In
> retrospect, this was obviously "penny wise, and pound foolish." A full audit by
> an outside party is planned. "</P>
> <P>&nbsp;</P>
> <P>&nbsp; The board has now public stated that it acted in direct violation of
> the formal bylaws of the organization. To the extent that the board willfully
> and knowingly took an action that was outside the bounds of its authority, it is
> probably liable for damages&nbsp;on a personal level. </P>
> <P>&nbsp; Organizations often have insurance policies to protect
> shareholders/members from illegal acts by officers/boards. I wonder if SSA has
> such coverage? Of course, the insurance company would, after paying, go after
> the deep pockets of any involved.</P>
> <P>&nbsp; Likewise, the accountants probably have&nbsp;E&amp;O insurance. </P>
> <P>&nbsp;</P>
> <P>&nbsp; OK here is the point... The SSA needs to file for bankruptcy and to be
> reorganized. A master needs to be appointed by the court to investigate and to
> vigorously pursue any and all avenues to recapture the lost funds if in fact
> they were stolen and if in fact that theft was facilitated by an illegal action
> by the board. To have the board oversee the investigation is a basic conflict of
> interest and may result in one avenue of recourse being ignored. I simply cannot
> see the board voting to sue itself individually or as a group. </P>
> <P>&nbsp; it is a shame that the decision, taken in 2003, not to have an audit
> as required by the bylaws, is going to come back to haunt those who made the
> decision. </P>
> <P>&nbsp;</P>
> <P>&nbsp; we have already seen what happens when the fox is left to guard the
> henhouse.. </FONT></P></DIV></BODY></HTML>
>
> ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C6D333.BC529780--
5bg,
Well put.I feel that if Dennis Wright and the whole board down through
the regional level does not resign, they are just greedy (or
incompetent) and they do not have the best interests of soaring or the
SSA in mind.

Robert Backer
September 8th 06, 10:32 PM
FWIW, and I don't know precisely how this applies to non-profits, but in
the corporate world, corporate officers are PERSONALLY LIABLE for
payroll taxes. Not even BK will get you out of them.

Bob


alice wrote:
> 5-BG wrote:
>> The most recent note to members from the board answers some questions but raises many more.
>>
>> there seem to be two operative theories being investigated:
>> 1. incompetence then panic resulted in the cfo and the ED knowingly conspiring to withhold information and to actually present false reports. Non payment of obligations was due to a shortfall in available cash and they incompetently choose to hide the situation rather than to cut costs.
>> 2. The money was misappropriated (stolen) and disappeared into someones pocket. This was covered up for years by falsifying financials.
>>
>> the note states "
>> Your first letter reported that the CFAO claimed his reason for making a unilateral decision not to pay withholding taxes was because of "...a lack of available cash on hand..." Does the Executive Committee believe this?
>>
>> No. This is why a thorough investigation is underway. "
>>
>> I guess the board feels #2 is the way things are headed.
>>
>>
>>
>> We have yet to hear about the status of funds that are sequestered in restricted and unrestricted special accounts for the purpose of furthering special programs. These accounts are not consolidated in the general financial reporting. The first note suggested that these accounts could be a source of emergency funding to pay back taxes.
>>
>> the note goes on"
>>
>> SSA Bylaws require a yearly audit. When was this last accomplished?
>>
>> Our accountants accomplished the last audit on October 31, 2002.
>>
>> Why has an audit (or outside financial review) not been done since 2002?
>>
>> The SSA hired its first CFAO during 2002. In retrospect, this may have led to a false sense of security on the part of the Board. Over the ensuing years, the Board decided not to spend funds on audits, instead allocating money on other tasks felt necessary to grow the Society. In retrospect, this was obviously "penny wise, and pound foolish." A full audit by an outside party is planned. "
>>
>>
>>
>> The board has now public stated that it acted in direct violation of the formal bylaws of the organization. To the extent that the board willfully and knowingly took an action that was outside the bounds of its authority, it is probably liable for damages on a personal level.
>>
>> Organizations often have insurance policies to protect shareholders/members from illegal acts by officers/boards. I wonder if SSA has such coverage? Of course, the insurance company would, after paying, go after the deep pockets of any involved.
>>
>> Likewise, the accountants probably have E&O insurance.
>>
>>
>>
>> OK here is the point... The SSA needs to file for bankruptcy and to be reorganized. A master needs to be appointed by the court to investigate and to vigorously pursue any and all avenues to recapture the lost funds if in fact they were stolen and if in fact that theft was facilitated by an illegal action by the board. To have the board oversee the investigation is a basic conflict of interest and may result in one avenue of recourse being ignored. I simply cannot see the board voting to sue itself individually or as a group.
>>
>> it is a shame that the decision, taken in 2003, not to have an audit as required by the bylaws, is going to come back to haunt those who made the decision.
>>
>>
>>
>> we have already seen what happens when the fox is left to guard the henhouse..
>>
>> ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C6D333.BC529780
>> Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>> X-Google-AttachSize: 4413
>>
>> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
>> <HTML><HEAD>
>> <META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
>> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2963" name=GENERATOR>
>> <STYLE></STYLE>
>> </HEAD>
>> <BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
>> <DIV><FONT face=Arial>&nbsp; The most recent note to members from the board
>> answers some questions but raises many more.</FONT></DIV>
>> <DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
>> <DIV><FONT face=Arial>&nbsp;there seem to be two operative theories being
>> investigated:</FONT></DIV>
>> <DIV><FONT face=Arial>1. incompetence then panic resulted in the cfo and the ED
>> knowingly conspiring to withhold information and to actually present false&nbsp;
>> reports. Non payment of obligations&nbsp; was due to a shortfall in available
>> cash and they incompetently choose to hide the situation rather than to cut
>> costs.</FONT></DIV>
>> <DIV><FONT face=Arial>2. The money was misappropriated (stolen) and disappeared
>> into someones pocket. This was covered up for years&nbsp; by falsifying
>> financials.</FONT></DIV>
>> <DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
>> <DIV><FONT face=Arial>&nbsp; the note states "
>> <P><EM><STRONG>Your first letter reported that the CFAO claimed his reason for
>> making a unilateral decision not to pay withholding taxes was because of "...a
>> lack of available cash on hand..." Does the Executive Committee believe
>> this?</STRONG></EM></P>
>> <P><STRONG></STRONG>No. This is why a thorough investigation is underway. "</P>
>> <P>&nbsp; I guess the board feels #2 is the way things are headed.</P>
>> <P>&nbsp;</P>
>> <P>&nbsp;&nbsp; We have yet to hear about the status of funds that are
>> sequestered in restricted and unrestricted special accounts for the purpose of
>> furthering special programs. These accounts are&nbsp; not consolidated in the
>> general financial reporting.&nbsp; The first note suggested that these accounts
>> could be a source of emergency funding&nbsp; to pay back taxes. </P>
>> <P>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; the note goes on"</P>
>> <P><STRONG><EM>SSA Bylaws require a yearly audit. When was this last
>> accomplished? </EM></STRONG></P>
>> <P><STRONG></STRONG>Our accountants accomplished the last audit on October 31,
>> 2002. </P>
>> <P><STRONG><EM>Why has an audit (or outside financial review) not been done
>> since 2002? </EM></STRONG></P>
>> <P><STRONG></STRONG>The SSA hired its first CFAO during 2002. In retrospect,
>> this may have led to a false sense of security on the part of the Board. Over
>> the ensuing years, the Board decided not to spend funds on audits, instead
>> allocating money on other tasks felt necessary to grow the Society. In
>> retrospect, this was obviously "penny wise, and pound foolish." A full audit by
>> an outside party is planned. "</P>
>> <P>&nbsp;</P>
>> <P>&nbsp; The board has now public stated that it acted in direct violation of
>> the formal bylaws of the organization. To the extent that the board willfully
>> and knowingly took an action that was outside the bounds of its authority, it is
>> probably liable for damages&nbsp;on a personal level. </P>
>> <P>&nbsp; Organizations often have insurance policies to protect
>> shareholders/members from illegal acts by officers/boards. I wonder if SSA has
>> such coverage? Of course, the insurance company would, after paying, go after
>> the deep pockets of any involved.</P>
>> <P>&nbsp; Likewise, the accountants probably have&nbsp;E&amp;O insurance. </P>
>> <P>&nbsp;</P>
>> <P>&nbsp; OK here is the point... The SSA needs to file for bankruptcy and to be
>> reorganized. A master needs to be appointed by the court to investigate and to
>> vigorously pursue any and all avenues to recapture the lost funds if in fact
>> they were stolen and if in fact that theft was facilitated by an illegal action
>> by the board. To have the board oversee the investigation is a basic conflict of
>> interest and may result in one avenue of recourse being ignored. I simply cannot
>> see the board voting to sue itself individually or as a group. </P>
>> <P>&nbsp; it is a shame that the decision, taken in 2003, not to have an audit
>> as required by the bylaws, is going to come back to haunt those who made the
>> decision. </P>
>> <P>&nbsp;</P>
>> <P>&nbsp; we have already seen what happens when the fox is left to guard the
>> henhouse.. </FONT></P></DIV></BODY></HTML>
>>
>> ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C6D333.BC529780--
> 5bg,
> Well put.I feel that if Dennis Wright and the whole board down through
> the regional level does not resign, they are just greedy (or
> incompetent) and they do not have the best interests of soaring or the
> SSA in mind.
>

5-BG
September 8th 06, 11:00 PM
bob;
you are right in terms of officers being responsible.. but I think that this is triggered ONLY AFTER the assets of the organization are liquidated and then the shortfall becomes a personal liability. If i am correct, then the remaining assets of the ssa would be liquidated, payments made to govt and any shortfall would be assessed against those officers.

SOMEONE in this mess is insured.. If only one party among the lot is insured, that party becomes the deep pocket and pays. I suspect that the accountants are insured and that they will be the deep pocket.
BUT this,once again raises the issue of conflict of interests.. how in the world can a firm do an impartial investigation that could conceivably be used against them in a claim??? The very act of doing a forenisic analysis, or even of filing late the back reports is an admission that they did not vigorously do their job in a manner consistant with professional requirements.. especially post enron.

The board needs to stop digging deeper the hole that they are in. If we have learned anything at all from events in Washington, the claims of COVERUP are often worse than the original sin. The board should recognize this at the earliest possible moment and get a master involved so as to avoid even the appearance of coverup. Right now I even question the wisdom of the advice being offered by the outside attorney hired by the board.. JUST WHO IS THE CLIENT??? the board or the members??? If the advice to the board is to "manage the problem" that is, imho, bad advice. The board is digging itself in deeper. This is a no win situation for them as individuals or as a group. Even assuming a well intentioned desire to determine the extent of the problem and then to fix it prior to resigning, IT IS BAD JUDGEMENT for them to remain involved. Knowingly choosing to ignore the bylaws is the issue that puts them at risk and that compromises their ability to oversee an objective investigation. The outside attorney needs to work for a party who represents the members and that has no personal interest in the outcome. The wording of each note is obviously vetted by the attorney. Again, the question arises.. WHO IS THE CLIENT..
"Robert Backer" > wrote in message news:QjlMg.18908$RD.8494@fed1read08...
FWIW, and I don't know precisely how this applies to non-profits, but in
the corporate world, corporate officers are PERSONALLY LIABLE for
payroll taxes. Not even BK will get you out of them.

Bob


alice wrote:
> 5-BG wrote:
>> The most recent note to members from the board answers some questions but raises many more.
>>
>> there seem to be two operative theories being investigated:
>> 1. incompetence then panic resulted in the cfo and the ED knowingly conspiring to withhold information and to actually present false reports. Non payment of obligations was due to a shortfall in available cash and they incompetently choose to hide the situation rather than to cut costs.
>> 2. The money was misappropriated (stolen) and disappeared into someones pocket. This was covered up for years by falsifying financials.
>>
>> the note states "
>> Your first letter reported that the CFAO claimed his reason for making a unilateral decision not to pay withholding taxes was because of "...a lack of available cash on hand..." Does the Executive Committee believe this?
>>
>> No. This is why a thorough investigation is underway. "
>>
>> I guess the board feels #2 is the way things are headed.
>>
>>
>>
>> We have yet to hear about the status of funds that are sequestered in restricted and unrestricted special accounts for the purpose of furthering special programs. These accounts are not consolidated in the general financial reporting. The first note suggested that these accounts could be a source of emergency funding to pay back taxes.
>>
>> the note goes on"
>>
>> SSA Bylaws require a yearly audit. When was this last accomplished?
>>
>> Our accountants accomplished the last audit on October 31, 2002.
>>
>> Why has an audit (or outside financial review) not been done since 2002?
>>
>> The SSA hired its first CFAO during 2002. In retrospect, this may have led to a false sense of security on the part of the Board. Over the ensuing years, the Board decided not to spend funds on audits, instead allocating money on other tasks felt necessary to grow the Society. In retrospect, this was obviously "penny wise, and pound foolish." A full audit by an outside party is planned. "
>>
>>
>>
>> The board has now public stated that it acted in direct violation of the formal bylaws of the organization. To the extent that the board willfully and knowingly took an action that was outside the bounds of its authority, it is probably liable for damages on a personal level.
>>
>> Organizations often have insurance policies to protect shareholders/members from illegal acts by officers/boards. I wonder if SSA has such coverage? Of course, the insurance company would, after paying, go after the deep pockets of any involved.
>>
>> Likewise, the accountants probably have E&O insurance.
>>
>>
>>
>> OK here is the point... The SSA needs to file for bankruptcy and to be reorganized. A master needs to be appointed by the court to investigate and to vigorously pursue any and all avenues to recapture the lost funds if in fact they were stolen and if in fact that theft was facilitated by an illegal action by the board. To have the board oversee the investigation is a basic conflict of interest and may result in one avenue of recourse being ignored. I simply cannot see the board voting to sue itself individually or as a group.
>>
>> it is a shame that the decision, taken in 2003, not to have an audit as required by the bylaws, is going to come back to haunt those who made the decision.
>>
>>
>>
>> we have already seen what happens when the fox is left to guard the henhouse..
>>
>> ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C6D333.BC529780
>> Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>> X-Google-AttachSize: 4413
>>
>> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
>> <HTML><HEAD>
>> <META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
>> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2963" name=GENERATOR>
>> <STYLE></STYLE>
>> </HEAD>
>> <BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
>> <DIV><FONT face=Arial>&nbsp; The most recent note to members from the board
>> answers some questions but raises many more.</FONT></DIV>
>> <DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
>> <DIV><FONT face=Arial>&nbsp;there seem to be two operative theories being
>> investigated:</FONT></DIV>
>> <DIV><FONT face=Arial>1. incompetence then panic resulted in the cfo and the ED
>> knowingly conspiring to withhold information and to actually present false&nbsp;
>> reports. Non payment of obligations&nbsp; was due to a shortfall in available
>> cash and they incompetently choose to hide the situation rather than to cut
>> costs.</FONT></DIV>
>> <DIV><FONT face=Arial>2. The money was misappropriated (stolen) and disappeared
>> into someones pocket. This was covered up for years&nbsp; by falsifying
>> financials.</FONT></DIV>
>> <DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
>> <DIV><FONT face=Arial>&nbsp; the note states "
>> <P><EM><STRONG>Your first letter reported that the CFAO claimed his reason for
>> making a unilateral decision not to pay withholding taxes was because of "...a
>> lack of available cash on hand..." Does the Executive Committee believe
>> this?</STRONG></EM></P>
>> <P><STRONG></STRONG>No. This is why a thorough investigation is underway. "</P>
>> <P>&nbsp; I guess the board feels #2 is the way things are headed.</P>
>> <P>&nbsp;</P>
>> <P>&nbsp;&nbsp; We have yet to hear about the status of funds that are
>> sequestered in restricted and unrestricted special accounts for the purpose of
>> furthering special programs. These accounts are&nbsp; not consolidated in the
>> general financial reporting.&nbsp; The first note suggested that these accounts
>> could be a source of emergency funding&nbsp; to pay back taxes. </P>
>> <P>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; the note goes on"</P>
>> <P><STRONG><EM>SSA Bylaws require a yearly audit. When was this last
>> accomplished? </EM></STRONG></P>
>> <P><STRONG></STRONG>Our accountants accomplished the last audit on October 31,
>> 2002. </P>
>> <P><STRONG><EM>Why has an audit (or outside financial review) not been done
>> since 2002? </EM></STRONG></P>
>> <P><STRONG></STRONG>The SSA hired its first CFAO during 2002. In retrospect,
>> this may have led to a false sense of security on the part of the Board. Over
>> the ensuing years, the Board decided not to spend funds on audits, instead
>> allocating money on other tasks felt necessary to grow the Society. In
>> retrospect, this was obviously "penny wise, and pound foolish." A full audit by
>> an outside party is planned. "</P>
>> <P>&nbsp;</P>
>> <P>&nbsp; The board has now public stated that it acted in direct violation of
>> the formal bylaws of the organization. To the extent that the board willfully
>> and knowingly took an action that was outside the bounds of its authority, it is
>> probably liable for damages&nbsp;on a personal level. </P>
>> <P>&nbsp; Organizations often have insurance policies to protect
>> shareholders/members from illegal acts by officers/boards. I wonder if SSA has
>> such coverage? Of course, the insurance company would, after paying, go after
>> the deep pockets of any involved.</P>
>> <P>&nbsp; Likewise, the accountants probably have&nbsp;E&amp;O insurance. </P>
>> <P>&nbsp;</P>
>> <P>&nbsp; OK here is the point... The SSA needs to file for bankruptcy and to be
>> reorganized. A master needs to be appointed by the court to investigate and to
>> vigorously pursue any and all avenues to recapture the lost funds if in fact
>> they were stolen and if in fact that theft was facilitated by an illegal action
>> by the board. To have the board oversee the investigation is a basic conflict of
>> interest and may result in one avenue of recourse being ignored. I simply cannot
>> see the board voting to sue itself individually or as a group. </P>
>> <P>&nbsp; it is a shame that the decision, taken in 2003, not to have an audit
>> as required by the bylaws, is going to come back to haunt those who made the
>> decision. </P>
>> <P>&nbsp;</P>
>> <P>&nbsp; we have already seen what happens when the fox is left to guard the
>> henhouse.. </FONT></P></DIV></BODY></HTML>
>>
>> ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C6D333.BC529780--
> 5bg,
> Well put.I feel that if Dennis Wright and the whole board down through
> the regional level does not resign, they are just greedy (or
> incompetent) and they do not have the best interests of soaring or the
> SSA in mind.
>

Terry[_2_]
September 9th 06, 01:51 AM
LET US START RIGHT HERE AND NOW!

I do pledge my former dues amount ($65) for a newly formed Soaring
Association. We have had constitutional conventions in this country
before and can do it again. The only requirement is for the current
group--ALL of them down to whoever cleans the office in NM--need to go.

Our former SSA was driven off the cliff over many, many years. Most of
the directors and volunteers names have not changed since I took my
first glider flight in 1979. Those that got us here are not the ones to
make it better.

Disgusted,

Terry Claussen
FAA Designated Flight Instructor Examiner Glider
Former SSAI# 922214

Papa3
September 9th 06, 04:40 AM
Terry wrote:
> LET US START RIGHT HERE AND NOW!
>
>
> Our former SSA was driven off the cliff over many, many years. Most of
> the directors and volunteers names have not changed since I took my
> first glider flight in 1979. Those that got us here are not the ones to
> make it better.
>
> Disgusted,
>
> Terry Claussen
> FAA Designated Flight Instructor Examiner Glider
> Former SSAI# 922214

Hey Terry,

First, let me say that the current situation makes me sick. It makes
me sick because a) the events are in and of themselves disgusting and
because b) the SSA Board members who I know are hard-working,
dedicated, and innovative. Before you fire back, let's look at the
facts in your statement: "Most of the directors and volunteers (sic)
names have not changed since I took my first glider flight in 1979. "

I've been a member since 1984. I can hardly find one name on the
current list of directors who goes back that far. So, giving you a
little poetic license, let's go back 10 years. From the 1996 Board
Meeting in Kansas City, I did a little look-see at the list of 20
Regional Directors then vs. now. Wanna guess how many are the same?
Hint: It's less than 10. Need a second hint: It's less than 5.
Third hint: it's an even number. That's right, exactly 4 of the
Regional Directors have a tenure going back even 10 years. So, 80% of
the Board is new within that period. At least a third of the Board
goes back less than 5 years from what I was able to figure.

A couple of other interesting observations:

- In recent elections, a significant percentage of Directors ran
unopposed. So, our members must not be very disatisfied with the
Board, otherwise they would have stepped up and run for office
themselves, right?
- There is currently at least 1 position vacant. Surprising given the
glamor and wealth associated with the position.
- There are 6 slots which expire 12/31/2006.
- At no time do I see anyone named Terry Claussen running for
Director. Nor for that matter, does that name appear under any of the
numerous volunteer positions. Interestingly, neither do the names of
a lot of the usual, vocal critics of the SSA.

Okay, so that last one is a little bit of a low blow. But either
you've been a non-participant in the electoral affairs of the
organization or you just haven't been paying much attention to the
outcome.

Why does this matter? Well, it seems to me that we all owe it to the
Board to sort this out before we launch a lynch mob. I would imagine
that there are a few specific individuals who have some serious
'splainin to do. It's obvious from the second update that the Board
is moving to rapidly hone in on the details. How about we ask the
court of public opinion to recess for a little while to see what comes
next. It's obviously not the same old Board...

Regards,
Erik Mann
LS8-18 (P3)

David Walsh
September 9th 06, 05:54 AM
Dear Mr. 5-BG

The anonymous nature of your post, places it in the "Blow and Bluster"
category. Wake me up then the investigation is concluded, the damage
is understood, and the corrective actions identified.

David Walsh
SSA member



5-BG wrote:
> The most recent note to members from the board answers some questions
> but raises many more.
>
> there seem to be two operative theories being investigated:
> 1. incompetence then panic resulted in the cfo and the ED knowingly
> conspiring to withhold information and to actually present false
> reports. Non payment of obligations was due to a shortfall in available
> cash and they incompetently choose to hide the situation rather than to
> cut costs.
> 2. The money was misappropriated (stolen) and disappeared into someones
> pocket. This was covered up for years by falsifying financials.
>
> the note states "
>
> Your first letter reported that the CFAO claimed his reason for making a
> unilateral decision not to pay withholding taxes was because of "...a
> lack of available cash on hand..." Does the Executive Committee believe
> this?
>
> No. This is why a thorough investigation is underway. "
>
> I guess the board feels #2 is the way things are headed.
>
>
>
> We have yet to hear about the status of funds that are sequestered in
> restricted and unrestricted special accounts for the purpose of
> furthering special programs. These accounts are not consolidated in the
> general financial reporting. The first note suggested that these
> accounts could be a source of emergency funding to pay back taxes.
>
> the note goes on"
>
> SSA Bylaws require a yearly audit. When was this last accomplished?
>
> Our accountants accomplished the last audit on October 31, 2002.
>
> Why has an audit (or outside financial review) not been done since 2002?
>
> The SSA hired its first CFAO during 2002. In retrospect, this may have
> led to a false sense of security on the part of the Board. Over the
> ensuing years, the Board decided not to spend funds on audits, instead
> allocating money on other tasks felt necessary to grow the Society. In
> retrospect, this was obviously “penny wise, and pound foolish.” A full
> audit by an outside party is planned. "
>
>
>
> The board has now public stated that it acted in direct violation of
> the formal bylaws of the organization. To the extent that the board
> willfully and knowingly took an action that was outside the bounds of
> its authority, it is probably liable for damages on a personal level.
>
> Organizations often have insurance policies to protect
> shareholders/members from illegal acts by officers/boards. I wonder if
> SSA has such coverage? Of course, the insurance company would, after
> paying, go after the deep pockets of any involved.
>
> Likewise, the accountants probably have E&O insurance.
>
>
>
> OK here is the point... The SSA needs to file for bankruptcy and to be
> reorganized. A master needs to be appointed by the court to investigate
> and to vigorously pursue any and all avenues to recapture the lost funds
> if in fact they were stolen and if in fact that theft was facilitated by
> an illegal action by the board. To have the board oversee the
> investigation is a basic conflict of interest and may result in one
> avenue of recourse being ignored. I simply cannot see the board voting
> to sue itself individually or as a group.
>
> it is a shame that the decision, taken in 2003, not to have an audit
> as required by the bylaws, is going to come back to haunt those who made
> the decision.
>
>
>
> we have already seen what happens when the fox is left to guard the
> henhouse..
>

September 9th 06, 07:04 AM
This just in from the SSA board:

"After the September, 2003 Board meeting, neither the Board nor
Executive Committee ever discussed audits at all. While this was
clearly an error, it was one of omission, not commission."

The facts seem quite clear so far and it is beyond any doubt that the
management and board of the SSA didn't do their jobs and every member
of the SSA should be outraged. This "Wait and See" attitude is
nonsense. A quarter million dollars (plus or minus) is missing and
neither the Board nor Executive Committee even discussed performing an
audit after September 2003?

When WERE they going to do the audit? 2010? Never?

Embezzlement. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks.....


David Walsh wrote:
> Dear Mr. 5-BG
>
> The anonymous nature of your post, places it in the "Blow and Bluster"
> category. Wake me up then the investigation is concluded, the damage
> is understood, and the corrective actions identified.
>
> David Walsh
> SSA member
>
>
>
> 5-BG wrote:
> > The most recent note to members from the board answers some questions
> > but raises many more.
> >
> > there seem to be two operative theories being investigated:
> > 1. incompetence then panic resulted in the cfo and the ED knowingly
> > conspiring to withhold information and to actually present false
> > reports. Non payment of obligations was due to a shortfall in available
> > cash and they incompetently choose to hide the situation rather than to
> > cut costs.
> > 2. The money was misappropriated (stolen) and disappeared into someones
> > pocket. This was covered up for years by falsifying financials.
> >
> > the note states "
> >
> > Your first letter reported that the CFAO claimed his reason for making a
> > unilateral decision not to pay withholding taxes was because of "...a
> > lack of available cash on hand..." Does the Executive Committee believe
> > this?
> >
> > No. This is why a thorough investigation is underway. "
> >
> > I guess the board feels #2 is the way things are headed.
> >
> >
> >
> > We have yet to hear about the status of funds that are sequestered in
> > restricted and unrestricted special accounts for the purpose of
> > furthering special programs. These accounts are not consolidated in the
> > general financial reporting. The first note suggested that these
> > accounts could be a source of emergency funding to pay back taxes.
> >
> > the note goes on"
> >
> > SSA Bylaws require a yearly audit. When was this last accomplished?
> >
> > Our accountants accomplished the last audit on October 31, 2002.
> >
> > Why has an audit (or outside financial review) not been done since 2002?
> >
> > The SSA hired its first CFAO during 2002. In retrospect, this may have
> > led to a false sense of security on the part of the Board. Over the
> > ensuing years, the Board decided not to spend funds on audits, instead
> > allocating money on other tasks felt necessary to grow the Society. In
> > retrospect, this was obviously "penny wise, and pound foolish." A full
> > audit by an outside party is planned. "
> >
> >
> >
> > The board has now public stated that it acted in direct violation of
> > the formal bylaws of the organization. To the extent that the board
> > willfully and knowingly took an action that was outside the bounds of
> > its authority, it is probably liable for damages on a personal level.
> >
> > Organizations often have insurance policies to protect
> > shareholders/members from illegal acts by officers/boards. I wonder if
> > SSA has such coverage? Of course, the insurance company would, after
> > paying, go after the deep pockets of any involved.
> >
> > Likewise, the accountants probably have E&O insurance.
> >
> >
> >
> > OK here is the point... The SSA needs to file for bankruptcy and to be
> > reorganized. A master needs to be appointed by the court to investigate
> > and to vigorously pursue any and all avenues to recapture the lost funds
> > if in fact they were stolen and if in fact that theft was facilitated by
> > an illegal action by the board. To have the board oversee the
> > investigation is a basic conflict of interest and may result in one
> > avenue of recourse being ignored. I simply cannot see the board voting
> > to sue itself individually or as a group.
> >
> > it is a shame that the decision, taken in 2003, not to have an audit
> > as required by the bylaws, is going to come back to haunt those who made
> > the decision.
> >
> >
> >
> > we have already seen what happens when the fox is left to guard the
> > henhouse..
> >

Doug Haluza
September 9th 06, 10:56 AM
You need to put more skin in the game than just your $65. How much time
and effort are you willing to devote to this? What if there was a
"constitutional convention" and nobody came?

Maby the real problem with the SSA is not the minority of dedicated
volunteers who try to make the organization work, it's the majority of
armchair critics live in their own worlds, unburdened by reality.

Terry wrote:
> LET US START RIGHT HERE AND NOW!
>
> I do pledge my former dues amount ($65) for a newly formed Soaring
> Association. We have had constitutional conventions in this country
> before and can do it again. The only requirement is for the current
> group--ALL of them down to whoever cleans the office in NM--need to go.
>
> Our former SSA was driven off the cliff over many, many years. Most of
> the directors and volunteers names have not changed since I took my
> first glider flight in 1979. Those that got us here are not the ones to
> make it better.
>
> Disgusted,
>
> Terry Claussen
> FAA Designated Flight Instructor Examiner Glider
> Former SSAI# 922214

September 9th 06, 02:03 PM
Erik,
Thank you for your post. It is a welcome change from the "they're
all crooks" theme that seems so prevalent on this discussion group.

Horst
L33

Brian Glick
September 9th 06, 03:12 PM
Eric

Amen to what you said. I could not agree with you more, especially about
some of the board members that we both know. They do not seserve the link
mob!!!

Brian
"Papa3" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Terry wrote:
>> LET US START RIGHT HERE AND NOW!
>>
>>
>> Our former SSA was driven off the cliff over many, many years. Most of
>> the directors and volunteers names have not changed since I took my
>> first glider flight in 1979. Those that got us here are not the ones to
>> make it better.
>>
>> Disgusted,
>>
>> Terry Claussen
>> FAA Designated Flight Instructor Examiner Glider
>> Former SSAI# 922214
>
> Hey Terry,
>
> First, let me say that the current situation makes me sick. It makes
> me sick because a) the events are in and of themselves disgusting and
> because b) the SSA Board members who I know are hard-working,
> dedicated, and innovative. Before you fire back, let's look at the
> facts in your statement: "Most of the directors and volunteers (sic)
> names have not changed since I took my first glider flight in 1979. "
>
> I've been a member since 1984. I can hardly find one name on the
> current list of directors who goes back that far. So, giving you a
> little poetic license, let's go back 10 years. From the 1996 Board
> Meeting in Kansas City, I did a little look-see at the list of 20
> Regional Directors then vs. now. Wanna guess how many are the same?
> Hint: It's less than 10. Need a second hint: It's less than 5.
> Third hint: it's an even number. That's right, exactly 4 of the
> Regional Directors have a tenure going back even 10 years. So, 80% of
> the Board is new within that period. At least a third of the Board
> goes back less than 5 years from what I was able to figure.
>
> A couple of other interesting observations:
>
> - In recent elections, a significant percentage of Directors ran
> unopposed. So, our members must not be very disatisfied with the
> Board, otherwise they would have stepped up and run for office
> themselves, right?
> - There is currently at least 1 position vacant. Surprising given the
> glamor and wealth associated with the position.
> - There are 6 slots which expire 12/31/2006.
> - At no time do I see anyone named Terry Claussen running for
> Director. Nor for that matter, does that name appear under any of the
> numerous volunteer positions. Interestingly, neither do the names of
> a lot of the usual, vocal critics of the SSA.
>
> Okay, so that last one is a little bit of a low blow. But either
> you've been a non-participant in the electoral affairs of the
> organization or you just haven't been paying much attention to the
> outcome.
>
> Why does this matter? Well, it seems to me that we all owe it to the
> Board to sort this out before we launch a lynch mob. I would imagine
> that there are a few specific individuals who have some serious
> 'splainin to do. It's obvious from the second update that the Board
> is moving to rapidly hone in on the details. How about we ask the
> court of public opinion to recess for a little while to see what comes
> next. It's obviously not the same old Board...
>
> Regards,
> Erik Mann
> LS8-18 (P3)
>

Frank[_3_]
September 9th 06, 11:13 PM
Doug Haluza wrote:
> You need to put more skin in the game than just your $65.

Doug, how much skin are YOU putting in?
>
> Maby the real problem with the SSA is not the minority of dedicated
> volunteers who try to make the organization work, it's the majority of
> armchair critics live in their own worlds, unburdened by reality.

Maybe you need a little reality Doug, This minority of hard working
volunteers admitedly ignored the bylaws of the SSA for several
years.What part of reality am I missing here?
Frank

Doug Haluza
September 10th 06, 01:26 AM
Frank wrote:
> Doug Haluza wrote:
> > You need to put more skin in the game than just your $65.
>
> Doug, how much skin are YOU putting in?

I have done hundreds of hours of volunteer work. And you?

> > Maby the real problem with the SSA is not the minority of dedicated
> > volunteers who try to make the organization work, it's the majority of
> > armchair critics live in their own worlds, unburdened by reality.
>
> Maybe you need a little reality Doug, This minority of hard working
> volunteers admitedly ignored the bylaws of the SSA for several
> years.What part of reality am I missing here?

Then why didn't you say so sooner?

Bill Daniels
September 10th 06, 02:07 AM
I feel the need to rise to the defense of the SSA board of directors and the
very small group of volunteers that work for the us, the SSA membership.

First, let me say that I accept the explanation of the SSA board. They have
stood up and taken responsibility for their oversight. I'm sure they are
working overtime to get to the bottom of this mess. I expect they are very,
very depressed that it could have happened on their watch.

Remember, these volunteers are dispersed around a very large country and,
for the most part, have full time careers and families. The problem, I
suspect, is less with these individuals than with the system that has them
spread thin yet charged with huge responsibilities of managing the affairs
of an organization with small group of paid employees in a very remote town.

Lets look at the weaknesses of the organizational structure before pointing
fingers at the fellow member/volunteers that serve us.

Further, I don't like the idea of a "broomcloset" SSA. No one would take us
seriously. In this world we need an organization to represent us that is
taken seriously. Lets get past this and build a far better organization to
serve us through the century. I'm sure it can be done.

Bill Daniels


"Doug Haluza" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Frank wrote:
>> Doug Haluza wrote:
>> > You need to put more skin in the game than just your $65.
>>
>> Doug, how much skin are YOU putting in?
>
> I have done hundreds of hours of volunteer work. And you?
>
>> > Maby the real problem with the SSA is not the minority of dedicated
>> > volunteers who try to make the organization work, it's the majority of
>> > armchair critics live in their own worlds, unburdened by reality.
>>
>> Maybe you need a little reality Doug, This minority of hard working
>> volunteers admitedly ignored the bylaws of the SSA for several
>> years.What part of reality am I missing here?
>
> Then why didn't you say so sooner?
>

Frank[_3_]
September 10th 06, 02:19 AM
Doug Haluza wrote:
>
> I have done hundreds of hours of volunteer work. And you?

Did you follow the bylaws while you were volunteering?Just kidding, I
have never done any volunteer work for the SSA (Except at a contest)
but I have done several years of volunteer work for the Civil Air
Patrol.I have given countless glider orientation rides to cadets,
provided tows, given dual instruction , helped with off season
maintenence and administrative duties .I had a senior member (whose son
had been a bit of a problem child in high school but had turned things
around and was starting his first semester at the Air Force Academy)
come up to me and tell me I was a tremendous influence on his son (Let
me tell ya, that will put a lump in your thoat).A few of these kids
have gone on to become rated glider pilots and are active in the
sport.So even though I have never done any volunteer work for the SSA,
I do feel that I have done what I could to foster the sport of
soaring.Whats more, in light of the current situation with the SSA, I
will consider helping out where I can with either a reorganized SSA or
a new national organization.

F

Mike Schumann
September 10th 06, 05:19 AM
Being an unpaid volunteer on any board like the SSA is a huge and thankless
personal commitment. Management of an organization like the SSA has two
parts: The soaring part, which is why everyone is interested in helping
out, and the back office part which is a necessary distraction that no one
is particularly interested in.

When you have an organization of this size, the back office is a real
problem. The group is too large to run with volunteers, but barely big
enough where professional management is efficient and affordable.

That is the advantage of becoming affiliated with a larger organization,
whether it is the EAA, AOPA or someone else. It provides an opportunity to
leverage the existing professional back office infrastructure of that
organization, so that the SSA volunteers can focus on what they love:
soaring.

Mike Schumann

"Bill Daniels" <bildan@comcast-dot-net> wrote in message
...
>I feel the need to rise to the defense of the SSA board of directors and
>the very small group of volunteers that work for the us, the SSA
>membership.
>
> First, let me say that I accept the explanation of the SSA board. They
> have stood up and taken responsibility for their oversight. I'm sure they
> are working overtime to get to the bottom of this mess. I expect they are
> very, very depressed that it could have happened on their watch.
>
> Remember, these volunteers are dispersed around a very large country and,
> for the most part, have full time careers and families. The problem, I
> suspect, is less with these individuals than with the system that has them
> spread thin yet charged with huge responsibilities of managing the affairs
> of an organization with small group of paid employees in a very remote
> town.
>
> Lets look at the weaknesses of the organizational structure before
> pointing fingers at the fellow member/volunteers that serve us.
>
> Further, I don't like the idea of a "broomcloset" SSA. No one would take
> us seriously. In this world we need an organization to represent us that
> is taken seriously. Lets get past this and build a far better
> organization to serve us through the century. I'm sure it can be done.
>
> Bill Daniels
>
>
> "Doug Haluza" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>>
>> Frank wrote:
>>> Doug Haluza wrote:
>>> > You need to put more skin in the game than just your $65.
>>>
>>> Doug, how much skin are YOU putting in?
>>
>> I have done hundreds of hours of volunteer work. And you?
>>
>>> > Maby the real problem with the SSA is not the minority of dedicated
>>> > volunteers who try to make the organization work, it's the majority of
>>> > armchair critics live in their own worlds, unburdened by reality.
>>>
>>> Maybe you need a little reality Doug, This minority of hard working
>>> volunteers admitedly ignored the bylaws of the SSA for several
>>> years.What part of reality am I missing here?
>>
>> Then why didn't you say so sooner?
>>
>
>

309
September 10th 06, 08:21 AM
Embezzlement? Quack? Sorry, but I'm not buying that...yet.

My great-great-great grandpa started a company in 1861 that is still
family owned (spreading thinner and thinner) and recently had over a
million embezzled...the CFO did it, Price Waterhouse verified he was
the lone bandit, and he's fled several jurisdictions, filed for "stress
disability." So it will be tied up in court (by lawyers no doubt) for
years...and the "recovery" will probably amount to pennies on the
dollar (for $1M, that would equate to at least $100k...). That's about
what Price Waterhouse charged for the investigation...but it proved
that the president, the CEO and nobody else needed to be hanged from
the short hairs.

Since it's a familly business, it MIGHT be chiseling out of my
daughters' college fund...am I mad? Yup. Do I want the lynch mob? Yup.
Do I expect to get it back? Nope.

In SSA's case, I don't see that the investigative process has been
completed...YET. Let's calm down, ask our VOLUNTEER directors to try
and put the candle back, well, as much as can be done...and THEN figure
out (collectively) how we want SSA to proceed. The independent audit
needs to proceed, and WE need to give it some time. Kudos to the BoD &
volunteers for making it public (well...sort of)...nevermind the
timing.

On the other hand...SSA's "cousin," the Social Security Administration
(SSA...coincidence???) is tetering on what some say is bankruptcy...
So IF there is a bankruptcy...I'd like to suggest a name change AWAY
from another organization that might have us "guilty by association..."
(pun intended) judgement. SFA (Soaring Federation of America)? AGA
(American Gliding Association...sorry BGA...who was there first, so to
speak)? TRW (Thermals, Ridge and Wave...oops, that's already been
taken...but then TRW got bought out by Northrop[Grumman])... I'm still
not sure that becoming EAA's or AOPA's unwanted step-child is the right
answer, either...and I feel those discussions are extremely
premature...be careful what you ask for...

I agree...let's be careful how we attribute malice where ignorance can
be the culprit. I suspect some of the VOLUNTEER directors were not as
aware of the legal requirements as we (and they) wish they had been. I
still appreciate the service I've received from my volunteer directors.

And closing, I was recently elected to the BoD of another International
Volunteer organization...and I'm shaking in my boots. So another
"thank you" to SSA for teaching me valuable lessons.

-Pete
#309

Charles Yeates
September 10th 06, 09:52 AM
RIGHT ON, IT SEEMS TO ME.

309 wrote:

> Embezzlement? Quack? Sorry, but I'm not buying that...yet.
>
> My great-great-great grandpa started a company in 1861 that is still
> family owned (spreading thinner and thinner) and recently had over a
> million embezzled...the CFO did it, Price Waterhouse verified he was
> the lone bandit, and he's fled several jurisdictions, filed for "stress
> disability." So it will be tied up in court (by lawyers no doubt) for
> years...and the "recovery" will probably amount to pennies on the
> dollar (for $1M, that would equate to at least $100k...). That's about
> what Price Waterhouse charged for the investigation...but it proved
> that the president, the CEO and nobody else needed to be hanged from
> the short hairs.
>
> Since it's a familly business, it MIGHT be chiseling out of my
> daughters' college fund...am I mad? Yup. Do I want the lynch mob? Yup.
> Do I expect to get it back? Nope.
>
> In SSA's case, I don't see that the investigative process has been
> completed...YET. Let's calm down, ask our VOLUNTEER directors to try
> and put the candle back, well, as much as can be done...and THEN figure
> out (collectively) how we want SSA to proceed. The independent audit
> needs to proceed, and WE need to give it some time. Kudos to the BoD &
> volunteers for making it public (well...sort of)...nevermind the
> timing.
>
> On the other hand...SSA's "cousin," the Social Security Administration
> (SSA...coincidence???) is tetering on what some say is bankruptcy...
> So IF there is a bankruptcy...I'd like to suggest a name change AWAY
> from another organization that might have us "guilty by association..."
> (pun intended) judgement. SFA (Soaring Federation of America)? AGA
> (American Gliding Association...sorry BGA...who was there first, so to
> speak)? TRW (Thermals, Ridge and Wave...oops, that's already been
> taken...but then TRW got bought out by Northrop[Grumman])... I'm still
> not sure that becoming EAA's or AOPA's unwanted step-child is the right
> answer, either...and I feel those discussions are extremely
> premature...be careful what you ask for...
>
> I agree...let's be careful how we attribute malice where ignorance can
> be the culprit. I suspect some of the VOLUNTEER directors were not as
> aware of the legal requirements as we (and they) wish they had been. I
> still appreciate the service I've received from my volunteer directors.
>
> And closing, I was recently elected to the BoD of another International
> Volunteer organization...and I'm shaking in my boots. So another
> "thank you" to SSA for teaching me valuable lessons.
>
> -Pete
> #309
>

SkySoar
September 10th 06, 02:04 PM
Mike Schumann wrote:
> When you have an organization of this size, the back office is a real
> problem. The group is too large to run with volunteers, but barely big
> enough where professional management is efficient and affordable.
>
> That is the advantage of becoming affiliated with a larger organization,
> whether it is the EAA, AOPA or someone else. It provides an opportunity to
> leverage the existing professional back office infrastructure of that
> organization, so that the SSA volunteers can focus on what they love:
> soaring.

It may be that what the SSA needs is professional management, but I
would submit that the mangaement not be under the EAA or AOPA umbrella
(umbrellas don't protect you in ill winds). I'd bet most people have
never heard of an association management company (AMC). The AMC model
of association management may be just what an association of SSA's size
and type of governance needs. You have economies of scale on your side
with an AMC. For more info on AMCs: www.iaamc.org.

Nyal Williams
September 10th 06, 02:50 PM
Bad link.


At 13:06 10 September 2006, Skysoar wrote:
>
>Mike Schumann wrote:
>> When you have an organization of this size, the back
>>office is a real
>> problem. The group is too large to run with volunteers,
>>but barely big
>> enough where professional management is efficient
>>and affordable.
>>
>> That is the advantage of becoming affiliated with
>>a larger organization,
>> whether it is the EAA, AOPA or someone else. It provides
>>an opportunity to
>> leverage the existing professional back office infrastructure
>>of that
>> organization, so that the SSA volunteers can focus
>>on what they love:
>> soaring.
>
>It may be that what the SSA needs is professional management,
>but I
>would submit that the mangaement not be under the EAA
>or AOPA umbrella
>(umbrellas don't protect you in ill winds). I'd bet
>most people have
>never heard of an association management company (AMC).
>The AMC model
>of association management may be just what an association
>of SSA's size
>and type of governance needs. You have economies of
>scale on your side
>with an AMC. For more info on AMCs: www.iaamc.org.
>
>

Nyal Williams
September 10th 06, 02:51 PM
Bad link.


At 13:06 10 September 2006, Skysoar wrote:
>
>Mike Schumann wrote:
>> When you have an organization of this size, the back
>>office is a real
>> problem. The group is too large to run with volunteers,
>>but barely big
>> enough where professional management is efficient
>>and affordable.
>>
>> That is the advantage of becoming affiliated with
>>a larger organization,
>> whether it is the EAA, AOPA or someone else. It provides
>>an opportunity to
>> leverage the existing professional back office infrastructure
>>of that
>> organization, so that the SSA volunteers can focus
>>on what they love:
>> soaring.
>
>It may be that what the SSA needs is professional management,
>but I
>would submit that the mangaement not be under the EAA
>or AOPA umbrella
>(umbrellas don't protect you in ill winds). I'd bet
>most people have
>never heard of an association management company (AMC).
>The AMC model
>of association management may be just what an association
>of SSA's size
>and type of governance needs. You have economies of
>scale on your side
>with an AMC. For more info on AMCs: www.iaamc.org.
>
>

SkySoar
September 10th 06, 10:50 PM
Nyal Williams wrote:
> Bad link.
>
That's odd...it works when I click on it. Try typing it directly into
your browser's address bar instead.

Bob

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