medical question

[Emily[_1_]]

I've been running a 102 degree fever for the past two weeks and have
been so tired I can barely get to work. Finally made a doctor's
appointment (with a new doctor) today, but wasn't planning on getting in
the same day and had taken Tylenol for the fever...so no fever when I
showed up.

Long story short, he ordered some blood work, but told me he thinks that
I am depressed, since I have fatigue with no fever. He said that if the
blood work comes back normal, he's writing it up as depression.

Obviously he's an idiot, since 1) fatigue has so many other causes and
2) I don't have depression, never have. This is just a bogus diagnosis.

My concern is, if he writes this up in my medical records, do I have to
report it to the FAA? I'm really terrified of this.

[Gary[_1_]]

I think the medical application does ask about conditions like that, so if
other factors created the condition on the day of visiting the doctor, I'd
get him to acknowledge that, and retest.


www.aviatorwebsite.com


"Emily" > wrote in message
. ..
> I've been running a 102 degree fever for the past two weeks and have been
> so tired I can barely get to work. Finally made a doctor's appointment
> (with a new doctor) today, but wasn't planning on getting in the same day
> and had taken Tylenol for the fever...so no fever when I showed up.
>
> Long story short, he ordered some blood work, but told me he thinks that I
> am depressed, since I have fatigue with no fever. He said that if the
> blood work comes back normal, he's writing it up as depression.
>
> Obviously he's an idiot, since 1) fatigue has so many other causes and 2)
> I don't have depression, never have. This is just a bogus diagnosis.
>
> My concern is, if he writes this up in my medical records, do I have to
> report it to the FAA? I'm really terrified of this.
>

[Dan[_1_]]

Unless you are so depressed that you are suicidal _or_ decide to go on
depression meds, I think you're OK. This is a shame since it prevents
those who have mild depression from taking meds.

In any case, it's a bogus diagnoses.

--Dan


Emily wrote:
> I've been running a 102 degree fever for the past two weeks and have
> been so tired I can barely get to work. Finally made a doctor's
> appointment (with a new doctor) today, but wasn't planning on getting in
> the same day and had taken Tylenol for the fever...so no fever when I
> showed up.
>
> Long story short, he ordered some blood work, but told me he thinks that
> I am depressed, since I have fatigue with no fever. He said that if the
> blood work comes back normal, he's writing it up as depression.
>
> Obviously he's an idiot, since 1) fatigue has so many other causes and
> 2) I don't have depression, never have. This is just a bogus diagnosis.
>
> My concern is, if he writes this up in my medical records, do I have to
> report it to the FAA? I'm really terrified of this.

[Emily[_1_]]

Dan wrote:
> Unless you are so depressed that you are suicidal _or_ decide to go on
> depression meds, I think you're OK. This is a shame since it prevents
> those who have mild depression from taking meds.

Thing is, the medical application asks, "Do you have, have ever had, or
ever been diagnosed with?" Forgive my bad grammar and bad recollection
of the question.

> In any case, it's a bogus diagnoses.

Well, yes, since I DON'T have it, but this idiot doctor, who has known
me for all of five minutes, decided I do, because I'm tired and he
didn't see a fever (Duh, I took Tylenol, which I told him about).

[Jim Logajan]

Emily > wrote:
> Long story short, he ordered some blood work, but told me he thinks that
> I am depressed, since I have fatigue with no fever. He said that if the
> blood work comes back normal, he's writing it up as depression.

Get a second opinion. It sounds like it would be worth your while.

[Emily[_1_]]

Jim Logajan wrote:
> Emily > wrote:
>> Long story short, he ordered some blood work, but told me he thinks that
>> I am depressed, since I have fatigue with no fever. He said that if the
>> blood work comes back normal, he's writing it up as depression.
>
> Get a second opinion. It sounds like it would be worth your while.

Depending on how the blood work comes back, I will.

Thinking about it, though, I stopped taking my multivitamin when I ran
out last month. This is probably just anemia...which I'll bet good
money the tests will show.

In any case, it's NOT depression, which is why I'm so worried about him
saying it is. It seems like a case of "patient is tired all the time
and I don't know what else could cause it, but I need a diagnosis, so
let's pick the one that can't be proven or disproven."

[Jim Logajan]

Emily > wrote:
> In any case, it's NOT depression, which is why I'm so worried about
> him saying it is. It seems like a case of "patient is tired all the
> time and I don't know what else could cause it, but I need a
> diagnosis, so let's pick the one that can't be proven or disproven."

There is a good chance you are needlessly worrying. If you click on the
"FAA Reporting Requirements" item in the following site,
http://www.aviationmedicine.com/articles/index.cfm?fuseaction=displayArticle&articleID=32
it states "visits to mental health professionals were reportable ONLY if it
was due to alcohol/substance abuse OR resulted in a personal psychiatric
diagnosis." Is your doctor prescribing medication for your alleged
"depression"? Is he a psychiatrist or a pschologist? If not, I don't see it
as being a proper diagnosis but rather a brush-off by a less than competent
doctor. But if you are a member of AOPA I believe the standard advise given
on these forums is to contact them for more accurate answers.

[Margy Natalie]

Emily wrote:
> Jim Logajan wrote:
>
>> Emily > wrote:
>>
>>> Long story short, he ordered some blood work, but told me he thinks
>>> that I am depressed, since I have fatigue with no fever. He said
>>> that if the blood work comes back normal, he's writing it up as
>>> depression.
>>
>>
>> Get a second opinion. It sounds like it would be worth your while.
>
>
> Depending on how the blood work comes back, I will.
>
> Thinking about it, though, I stopped taking my multivitamin when I ran
> out last month. This is probably just anemia...which I'll bet good
> money the tests will show.
>
> In any case, it's NOT depression, which is why I'm so worried about him
> saying it is. It seems like a case of "patient is tired all the time
> and I don't know what else could cause it, but I need a diagnosis, so
> let's pick the one that can't be proven or disproven."
I'd really nail the Dr. on why he would just assign a diagnosis of
depression without looking at all the other possible sources. I had a
friend years ago who had a low grade fever for YEARS, lost touch with
her before I found out if they could figure it out. I hope everything
works out well.

Margy

[Matt Whiting]

Emily wrote:

> I've been running a 102 degree fever for the past two weeks and have
> been so tired I can barely get to work. Finally made a doctor's
> appointment (with a new doctor) today, but wasn't planning on getting in
> the same day and had taken Tylenol for the fever...so no fever when I
> showed up.
>
> Long story short, he ordered some blood work, but told me he thinks that
> I am depressed, since I have fatigue with no fever. He said that if the
> blood work comes back normal, he's writing it up as depression.
>
> Obviously he's an idiot, since 1) fatigue has so many other causes and
> 2) I don't have depression, never have. This is just a bogus diagnosis.
>
> My concern is, if he writes this up in my medical records, do I have to
> report it to the FAA? I'm really terrified of this.

Yes, you have to report it at your next medical, but I can't remember if
you have to report it right away. I'd call an AME and ask. I think you
also should get a second opinion right away.

Matt

[Emily[_1_]]

Matt Whiting wrote:
<snip>
>>
>> My concern is, if he writes this up in my medical records, do I have
>> to report it to the FAA? I'm really terrified of this.
>
> Yes, you have to report it at your next medical

Even though I don't have depression?! 102 degree fever indicates
infection, no depression (which I don't have anyway). How could a
routine appointment for a fever make me lost my medical? This is the
most unfair thing I've ever encountered, just because of some doctor's
incompetence. He's making something up, because he doesn't want to take
the time to find out what's REALLY wrong. I'm sorry, but seeing a
patient for two minutes does not qualify anyone to diagnos
depression...and the fact that I don't have it means a lot.

And to take this farther, how do I keep a doctor from writing all sorts
of bogus things in my records? Fever and fatigue also are symptoms of
AIDS, what if he's written THAT? See what I'm saying?

[Viperdoc[_1_]]

The true diagnosis of depression is generally made when a patient complains
of a specific set of criteria symptoms. Simply calling someone depressed
because they are fatigued or tired is lazy, irresponsible and poor medicine.

JN, MD
Senior Flight Surgeon (USAF), AME

[Trevor]

Emily wrote:

> Matt Whiting wrote:
> <snip>
> >>
> >> My concern is, if he writes this up in my medical records, do I have
> >> to report it to the FAA? I'm really terrified of this.
> >
> > Yes, you have to report it at your next medical
>
> Even though I don't have depression?! 102 degree fever indicates
> infection, no depression (which I don't have anyway). How could a
> routine appointment for a fever make me lost my medical? This is the
> most unfair thing I've ever encountered, just because of some doctor's
> incompetence. He's making something up, because he doesn't want to take
> the time to find out what's REALLY wrong. I'm sorry, but seeing a
> patient for two minutes does not qualify anyone to diagnos
> depression...and the fact that I don't have it means a lot.
>
> And to take this farther, how do I keep a doctor from writing all sorts
> of bogus things in my records? Fever and fatigue also are symptoms of
> AIDS, what if he's written THAT? See what I'm saying?

First, I would make your concerns known to your doctor before he starts
going diagnosis crazy. And keep asking him what the medical criteria for
'depression' is if he keeps throwing around the d word. Next, I would find
another doctor. Finally, I believe on your next medical application, you
are required to report all visits to doctors since your last medical.
Routine checkups are exempt from that hassle IIRC. Don't worry too much
about that, it's not abnormal or disqualifying if you got sick at some
point. The biggest piece of advice I can give anyone is to keep records
of all medical applications, forever. This will make filling out your next
form a snap at the dr office, (bring along a copy of the old one and you can
make liberal use of "as previously reported" without worrying about hanging
yourself by forgetting to report something they might be expecting to see
from a past application. AOPA has some kind of tool online to simplify the
record keeping, I just make a copy of the form every x years and file it
away with my wings certificates. YMMV.

[Stubby]

Viperdoc wrote:
> The true diagnosis of depression is generally made when a patient complains
> of a specific set of criteria symptoms. Simply calling someone depressed
> because they are fatigued or tired is lazy, irresponsible and poor medicine.

Is that grounds to have his AME certificate removed? What is the
process? The AME may have problems of his own that need looked at.

[Emily[_1_]]

Trevor wrote:
<snip>
>
> First, I would make your concerns known to your doctor before he starts
> going diagnosis crazy. And keep asking him what the medical criteria for
> 'depression' is if he keeps throwing around the d word. Next, I would find
> another doctor.

Obviously. My primary doctor, who knew I was a pilot and understood
what that meant, moved last month, this was his replacement. My
allergist is also pretty good, although I have to remind him at every
visit that I can't take Zyrtec. This is the first I've ever had this
issue and I will not be going back.

> Finally, I believe on your next medical application, you
> are required to report all visits to doctors since your last medical.

And I do that. I've been sick before, it's never been an issue. I'm
just concerned about the bogus diagnosis ending up in my records.

[Emily[_1_]]

Stubby wrote:
> Viperdoc wrote:
>> The true diagnosis of depression is generally made when a patient
>> complains of a specific set of criteria symptoms. Simply calling
>> someone depressed because they are fatigued or tired is lazy,
>> irresponsible and poor medicine.
>
> Is that grounds to have his AME certificate removed? What is the
> process? The AME may have problems of his own that need looked at.

This wasn't an AME.

[Emily[_1_]]

Jon Kraus wrote:
> Haven't you learned the "life isn't fair lesson" yet? :-)
>
> Just keep your mouth shut and quit worrying about it. As long as you
> aren't taking anti-depressants you don't have anything to worry about.

Read the application again. It asked if you've ever had or been
diagnosed with the list of problems.

[Jon Kraus]

Haven't you learned the "life isn't fair lesson" yet? :-)

Just keep your mouth shut and quit worrying about it. As long as you
aren't taking anti-depressants you don't have anything to worry about.

Jon Kraus
'79 Mooney 201
4443H @ UMP

Emily wrote:

> Matt Whiting wrote:
> <snip>
>
>>>
>>> My concern is, if he writes this up in my medical records, do I have
>>> to report it to the FAA? I'm really terrified of this.
>>
>>
>> Yes, you have to report it at your next medical
>
>
> Even though I don't have depression?! 102 degree fever indicates
> infection, no depression (which I don't have anyway). How could a
> routine appointment for a fever make me lost my medical? This is the
> most unfair thing I've ever encountered, just because of some doctor's
> incompetence. He's making something up, because he doesn't want to take
> the time to find out what's REALLY wrong. I'm sorry, but seeing a
> patient for two minutes does not qualify anyone to diagnos
> depression...and the fact that I don't have it means a lot.
>
> And to take this farther, how do I keep a doctor from writing all sorts
> of bogus things in my records? Fever and fatigue also are symptoms of
> AIDS, what if he's written THAT? See what I'm saying?

[Emily[_1_]]

Jon Kraus wrote:
> I would require that the doctor be competent in his diagnosis before I
> would list it. Seeing me for 5 minutes and then calling me depressed
> wouldn't count in my book. But if you want to list it as such you have
> the right and the resulting nightmare would be your reward.
>
> It doesn't sound like you have participated too much in "the game of
> life" yet. You'll understand more as you get a little older...

I've participated in life plenty....you don't even know how old I am.
I've just never experienced a doctor singlehandedly try to get my
medical revoked for absolutely no reason.

[Jon Kraus]

I would require that the doctor be competent in his diagnosis before I
would list it. Seeing me for 5 minutes and then calling me depressed
wouldn't count in my book. But if you want to list it as such you have
the right and the resulting nightmare would be your reward.

It doesn't sound like you have participated too much in "the game of
life" yet. You'll understand more as you get a little older...

Jon Kraus
'79 Mooney 201
4443H @ TYQ

Emily wrote:

> Jon Kraus wrote:
>
>> Haven't you learned the "life isn't fair lesson" yet? :-)
>>
>> Just keep your mouth shut and quit worrying about it. As long as you
>> aren't taking anti-depressants you don't have anything to worry about.
>
>
> Read the application again. It asked if you've ever had or been
> diagnosed with the list of problems.

[Jon Kraus]

I can tell by your posts that you aren't out of your twenties yet. Am I
wrong?

Emily wrote:

> Jon Kraus wrote:
>
>> I would require that the doctor be competent in his diagnosis before I
>> would list it. Seeing me for 5 minutes and then calling me depressed
>> wouldn't count in my book. But if you want to list it as such you have
>> the right and the resulting nightmare would be your reward.
>>
>> It doesn't sound like you have participated too much in "the game of
>> life" yet. You'll understand more as you get a little older...
>
>
> I've participated in life plenty....you don't even know how old I am.
> I've just never experienced a doctor singlehandedly try to get my
> medical revoked for absolutely no reason.

[Emily[_1_]]

Jon Kraus wrote:
> I can tell by your posts that you aren't out of your twenties yet. Am I
> wrong?

Yes.

And honestly, that "I'm so mature I think I can tell when people are
young" isn't mature, it's just annoying.

[Emily[_1_]]

Jon Kraus wrote:
> Plus.. I'm based at Metro and I know who you are (I think I know
> anyway)... I wasn't trying to be mean. I have a daughter your age (25)
> and I am amazed at how naive she still is.. It's not a crime....
>
> I'll introduce myself the next time I'm in there...

I'm not based at Metro (if you mean UMP), never was, only flew in there
three times and haven't lived in Indiana since graduating from college.
So I doubt you know me.

[Jon Kraus]

Plus.. I'm based at Metro and I know who you are (I think I know
anyway)... I wasn't trying to be mean. I have a daughter your age (25)
and I am amazed at how naive she still is.. It's not a crime....

I'll introduce myself the next time I'm in there...

Jon Kraus
'79 Mooney 201
4443H @ UMP


Jon Kraus wrote:

> I can tell by your posts that you aren't out of your twenties yet. Am I
> wrong?
>
> Emily wrote:
>
>> Jon Kraus wrote:
>>
>>> I would require that the doctor be competent in his diagnosis before
>>> I would list it. Seeing me for 5 minutes and then calling me
>>> depressed wouldn't count in my book. But if you want to list it as
>>> such you have the right and the resulting nightmare would be your
>>> reward.
>>>
>>> It doesn't sound like you have participated too much in "the game of
>>> life" yet. You'll understand more as you get a little older...
>>
>>
>>
>> I've participated in life plenty....you don't even know how old I am.
>> I've just never experienced a doctor singlehandedly try to get my
>> medical revoked for absolutely no reason.

[BTIZ]

I believe a medical Dr of that "rating" is not qualified to diagnose
depression, that is a psychologist or psychiatric diagnosis.

BT

"Emily" > wrote in message
. ..
> I've been running a 102 degree fever for the past two weeks and have been
> so tired I can barely get to work. Finally made a doctor's appointment
> (with a new doctor) today, but wasn't planning on getting in the same day
> and had taken Tylenol for the fever...so no fever when I showed up.
>
> Long story short, he ordered some blood work, but told me he thinks that I
> am depressed, since I have fatigue with no fever. He said that if the
> blood work comes back normal, he's writing it up as depression.
>
> Obviously he's an idiot, since 1) fatigue has so many other causes and 2)
> I don't have depression, never have. This is just a bogus diagnosis.
>
> My concern is, if he writes this up in my medical records, do I have to
> report it to the FAA? I'm really terrified of this.
>

[Emily[_1_]]

Jon Kraus wrote:
> I stand corrected... There is a CFI named Rachael on the board at Metro
> and I though that is who you were..
>
> I would be willing to bet that most (not all, but most) women CFI's are
> still in their 20's building hours... So you are one of the "outside the
> box" people. Sorry for any misunderstanding.. Good luck with your
> flying career...

Well, I'm not an active CFI, and I don't instruct to build time...

[Jon Kraus]

I stand corrected... There is a CFI named Rachael on the board at Metro
and I though that is who you were..

I would be willing to bet that most (not all, but most) women CFI's are
still in their 20's building hours... So you are one of the "outside the
box" people. Sorry for any misunderstanding.. Good luck with your
flying career...


Emily wrote:

> Jon Kraus wrote:
>
>> Plus.. I'm based at Metro and I know who you are (I think I know
>> anyway)... I wasn't trying to be mean. I have a daughter your age (25)
>> and I am amazed at how naive she still is.. It's not a crime....
>>
>> I'll introduce myself the next time I'm in there...
>
>
> I'm not based at Metro (if you mean UMP), never was, only flew in there
> three times and haven't lived in Indiana since graduating from college.
> So I doubt you know me.

[Mortimer Schnerd, RN[_2_]]

Emily wrote:
> Stubby wrote:
>> Viperdoc wrote:
>>> The true diagnosis of depression is generally made when a patient
>>> complains of a specific set of criteria symptoms. Simply calling
>>> someone depressed because they are fatigued or tired is lazy,
>>> irresponsible and poor medicine.
>>
>> Is that grounds to have his AME certificate removed? What is the
>> process? The AME may have problems of his own that need looked at.
>
> This wasn't an AME.


Then what is the problem? Keep this crap to yourself unless you think you've
become unsafe to fly. I've said it before: I have two physicians: my flight
guy and my real doctor. The two have never met.


--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

[Mortimer Schnerd, RN[_2_]]

Jon Kraus wrote:
> I would require that the doctor be competent in his diagnosis before I
> would list it. Seeing me for 5 minutes and then calling me depressed
> wouldn't count in my book. But if you want to list it as such you have
> the right and the resulting nightmare would be your reward.
>
> It doesn't sound like you have participated too much in "the game of
> life" yet. You'll understand more as you get a little older...


Jon, I'm with you on this. I've been wrung through the system where I lost my
medical for 15 years courtesy of a bogus medical blip. It took an expensive EKG
/ stress test / heart cath to show my coronary arteries are COMPLETELY clear.
Right up to the heart cath, all of the results were false positives. And of
course, I never had any symptoms. As a result, I have zero confidence that the
FAA will do the right thing in any particular instance.

I fear our sweet Emily is too much of a girl scout to keep this to herself. She
probably blabs her guts to the IRS as well. Some people just can't be helped.




--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

[Dave Stadt]

"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" <mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com> wrote in message
...
> Emily wrote:
>> Stubby wrote:
>>> Viperdoc wrote:
>>>> The true diagnosis of depression is generally made when a patient
>>>> complains of a specific set of criteria symptoms. Simply calling
>>>> someone depressed because they are fatigued or tired is lazy,
>>>> irresponsible and poor medicine.
>>>
>>> Is that grounds to have his AME certificate removed? What is the
>>> process? The AME may have problems of his own that need looked at.
>>
>> This wasn't an AME.
>
>
> Then what is the problem? Keep this crap to yourself unless you think
> you've become unsafe to fly. I've said it before: I have two physicians:
> my flight guy and my real doctor. The two have never met.

Or she could simply never go back to that doctor.

> --
> Mortimer Schnerd, RN
> mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com
>

[RomeoMike]

Looking at this situation from a distance, without knowing any of the
parties, there are two possible scenarios. Either there is more to the
story than you are relating or the doctor wrongly diagnosed without
sufficient medical history. In either case, should you for whatever
reason feel obliged to report this on your next physical, simply (and
truthfully) report that you saw the doctor because of a fever that has
resolved. If the fever hasn't resolved, see another doctor and don't
even mention the first one.

Emily wrote:

>
> My concern is, if he writes this up in my medical records, do I have to
> report it to the FAA? I'm really terrified of this.
>

[RomeoMike]

BTIZ wrote:
> I believe a medical Dr of that "rating" is not qualified to diagnose
> depression, that is a psychologist or psychiatric diagnosis.
>
What "rating" would that be. Anyone licensed to practice medicine can
legally diagnose whatever they wish, whether qualified or not. Wise
doctors stay within their area of expertise.

[Jim Macklin]

I had a student many years ago. He was a trained and
carrier qualified A7 pilot. Just before his first deployment
to VN, a draftee doctor was giving physical exams to the
flight crew.
The doctor wrote down, "Lt. _____ heart sounds funny." That
was the last time he flew for many years. He served out his
enlistment testing helmets and goggles. Since he wasn't on
flight status he did not get an FAA commercial. He was
finally able to get an FAA medical and he had about 6 months
of his ten years of VA training. Very quickly he got his
commercial and instrument, multi and he still had about
$8,000 left and just about 3 weeks.

He tried to enroll at Flight Safety for a Lear type rating,
but his total time was only about 800 hours and they were
insisting on 1,000 hours logged. The fact that 500 hours
was in single-engine Navy attack fighter and over water and
many carrier landings did not make a difference. Maybe
Cessna Flight Safety would have taken him for a Citation
rating. The guy at Lear kept saying "1,000 hours LOGGED" so
maybe he was just trying to suggest some time be logged just
to make FSI happy.

My normal temperature is about 96.8, when I am at 98.6 I'm
sick, but just try to convince a nurse.



"Emily" > wrote in message
. ..
| Matt Whiting wrote:
| <snip>
| >>
| >> My concern is, if he writes this up in my medical
records, do I have
| >> to report it to the FAA? I'm really terrified of this.
| >
| > Yes, you have to report it at your next medical
|
| Even though I don't have depression?! 102 degree fever
indicates
| infection, no depression (which I don't have anyway). How
could a
| routine appointment for a fever make me lost my medical?
This is the
| most unfair thing I've ever encountered, just because of
some doctor's
| incompetence. He's making something up, because he
doesn't want to take
| the time to find out what's REALLY wrong. I'm sorry, but
seeing a
| patient for two minutes does not qualify anyone to diagnos
| depression...and the fact that I don't have it means a
lot.
|
| And to take this farther, how do I keep a doctor from
writing all sorts
| of bogus things in my records? Fever and fatigue also are
symptoms of
| AIDS, what if he's written THAT? See what I'm saying?

[tony roberts[_1_]]

Hi Emily

You only have to report it if you receive the diagnosis,
So stay the hell away - don't go back to get the diagnosis,
Just walk, go somewhere else and start over.

Does that make sense?

Tony

In article >,
Emily > wrote:

> I've been running a 102 degree fever for the past two weeks and have
> been so tired I can barely get to work. Finally made a doctor's
> appointment (with a new doctor) today, but wasn't planning on getting in
> the same day and had taken Tylenol for the fever...so no fever when I
> showed up.
>
> Long story short, he ordered some blood work, but told me he thinks that
> I am depressed, since I have fatigue with no fever. He said that if the
> blood work comes back normal, he's writing it up as depression.
>
> Obviously he's an idiot, since 1) fatigue has so many other causes and
> 2) I don't have depression, never have. This is just a bogus diagnosis.
>
> My concern is, if he writes this up in my medical records, do I have to
> report it to the FAA? I'm really terrified of this.




--

Tony Roberts
PP-ASEL
VFR OTT
Night
Cessna 172H C-GICE

[Matt Whiting]

Emily wrote:

> Matt Whiting wrote:
> <snip>
>
>>>
>>> My concern is, if he writes this up in my medical records, do I have
>>> to report it to the FAA? I'm really terrified of this.
>>
>>
>> Yes, you have to report it at your next medical
>
>
> Even though I don't have depression?! 102 degree fever indicates
> infection, no depression (which I don't have anyway). How could a
> routine appointment for a fever make me lost my medical? This is the
> most unfair thing I've ever encountered, just because of some doctor's
> incompetence. He's making something up, because he doesn't want to take
> the time to find out what's REALLY wrong. I'm sorry, but seeing a
> patient for two minutes does not qualify anyone to diagnos
> depression...and the fact that I don't have it means a lot.

I don't have a copy of the medical form in front of me, but my
recollection is that even a diagnosis of an illness must be reported.
However, if a second opinion is in conflict, then I think that would
give good grounds to not report the initial diagnosis.


> And to take this farther, how do I keep a doctor from writing all sorts
> of bogus things in my records? Fever and fatigue also are symptoms of
> AIDS, what if he's written THAT? See what I'm saying?

You find a competent doctor to visit next time!

Matt

[Sylvain]

Matt Whiting wrote:

> I don't have a copy of the medical form in front of me, but my
> recollection is that even a diagnosis of an illness must be reported.

That was my understanding as well. the form 8500-9 asks specifically:
"have you ever in your life been diagnosed" then lists a number of
conditions; it doesn't ask whether you have ever suffered from said
conditions -- and chose to sit it out and wait to get better and/or
remained undiagnosed for whatever reasons -- but whether you have
been diagnosed -- wrongly or not.

--Sylvain

[Montblack[_1_]]

("Mortimer Schnerd, RN" wrote)
> Right up to the heart cath, all of the results were false positives. And
> of course, I never had any symptoms. As a result, I have zero confidence
> that the FAA will do the right thing in any particular instance.


<http://abcnews.go.com/Primetime/story?id=2315693&page=1>
Talk about false positives. This was weird. I caught about half of it one
night.


Montblack
"...I'm my own grandpa"

[Cubdriver]

On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 18:53:46 -0500, "Gary" >
wrote:

>I think the medical application does ask about conditions like that, so if
>other factors created the condition on the day of visiting the doctor, I'd
>get him to acknowledge that, and retest.

If he thinks it's a bad diagnosis, he shouldn't go near that doc
again, but immediately seek a second opinion.

If he suffers from clinical depression, he ought to get treatment for
it. That's the important thing.

With this second doc, I think I would be upfront and tell him what the
problem is (that is, the problem behind the problem): the FAA and his
medical history. These guys (and gals) do like to put names on things.
I told a doctor friend that I'd just been diagnosed with "basal motor
rhinitis" and she said: "What the xxxx is THAT?" So that first
diagnosis might just be the product of a tired mind wanting to get out
of the office. If you tell the doc that a diagnosis of depression
isn't acceptable, then very likely you won't get that diagnosis.

I'm even suspicious of the diagnosis. How does a GP / internist
/whatever diagnose depression on one visit and as a result of a
negative finding on lab tests?

[Cubdriver]

On Wed, 13 Sep 2006 01:22:42 GMT, Matt Whiting >
wrote:

>Yes, you have to report it at your next medical, but I can't remember if
>you have to report it right away. I'd call an AME and ask. I think you
> also should get a second opinion right away.

I'd do the last one, but I wouldn't do either of the others. If he
believes it's a crackpot diagnosis, why should he take it seriously?
It's not as if this were his regular doctor and he has reason to
believe him.

[Jon Kraus]

We all have to learn our own lessons I guess... I know I did... :-)

Mortimer Schnerd, RN wrote:


>
> I fear our sweet Emily is too much of a girl scout to keep this to herself. She
> probably blabs her guts to the IRS as well. Some people just can't be helped.
>
>
>
>

[Stubby]

tony roberts wrote:
> Hi Emily
>
> You only have to report it if you receive the diagnosis,
> So stay the hell away - don't go back to get the diagnosis,
> Just walk, go somewhere else and start over.
>
> Does that make sense?

Yes. But you also have to know that any prescription that is written
for you is part of the record, also. If you are involved in an
accident, the whole record will be researched.

[Steve Foley[_1_]]

"Emily" > wrote in message
. ..
> I've been running a 102 degree fever for the past two weeks and have
> been so tired I can barely get to work. Finally made a doctor's
> appointment (with a new doctor) today, but wasn't planning on getting in
> the same day and had taken Tylenol for the fever...so no fever when I
> showed up.
>
> Long story short, he ordered some blood work, but told me he thinks that
> I am depressed, since I have fatigue with no fever. He said that if the
> blood work comes back normal, he's writing it up as depression.

Let him know in no uncertain terms that this 'diagnosis' will cause you
financial harm, and that a wrong diagnosis will cause HIM financial harm.



>
> Obviously he's an idiot, since 1) fatigue has so many other causes and
> 2) I don't have depression, never have. This is just a bogus diagnosis.
>
> My concern is, if he writes this up in my medical records, do I have to
> report it to the FAA? I'm really terrified of this.
>

[Mortimer Schnerd, RN[_2_]]

Stubby wrote:
> tony roberts wrote:
>> Hi Emily
>>
>> You only have to report it if you receive the diagnosis,
>> So stay the hell away - don't go back to get the diagnosis,
>> Just walk, go somewhere else and start over.
>>
>> Does that make sense?
>
> Yes. But you also have to know that any prescription that is written
> for you is part of the record, also. If you are involved in an
> accident, the whole record will be researched.



They do not send letters out to every physician in the state asking: "do you
know this person?". They will never know the name of her physician if she
doesn't tell them. This guy is NOT her AME.

As for prescriptions: they are a piece of paper, one out of tens of millions of
pieces of paper, up until the prescription gets filled. And even then, the FAA
doesn't send letters out to pharmacists either. Your picture doesn't end up on
the side of a milk carton to be served at the local medical society luncheons.

They don't know what they're not told.

Look, we're not talking about her being admitted to the hospital after a MI or
stroke. Her new internist blew her off. Now it's her turn.

Believe me, the FAA doesn't send out flowers or candy after they screw someone.
If she mentions this to her AME she'll get screwed. Of that I am fairly
certain.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

[Gary Drescher]

"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" <mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com> wrote in message
...
> Emily wrote:
>> This wasn't an AME.
>
> Then what is the problem? Keep this crap to yourself unless you think
> you've become unsafe to fly. I've said it before: I have two physicians:
> my flight guy and my real doctor. The two have never met.

The problem is that the FAA's medical form asks you whether you have ever
been diagnosed with certain conditions (including depression), and it is
perjury to answer falsely. The form does not ask whether you consider the
diagnosis correct or whether you consider the diagnosing physician
competent.

--Gary

[Gary Drescher]

"Sylvain" > wrote in message
t...
> That was my understanding as well. the form 8500-9 asks specifically:
> "have you ever in your life been diagnosed" then lists a number of
> conditions; it doesn't ask whether you have ever suffered from said
> conditions -- and chose to sit it out and wait to get better and/or
> remained undiagnosed for whatever reasons -- but whether you have
> been diagnosed -- wrongly or not.

It asks both. It asks if you've ever been diagnosed for the specified
conditions, and it asks if you've ever had the specified conditions.

--Gary

[Emily[_1_]]

Stubby wrote:
> tony roberts wrote:
>> Hi Emily
>>
>> You only have to report it if you receive the diagnosis,
>> So stay the hell away - don't go back to get the diagnosis,
>> Just walk, go somewhere else and start over.
>>
>> Does that make sense?
>
> Yes. But you also have to know that any prescription that is written
> for you is part of the record, also. If you are involved in an
> accident, the whole record will be researched.

What prescription? Do you honestly think I'd let him write a
prescription for anti-depressants?

I'm getting the results of the lab work (which WILL show anemia),
skipping the followup appointment, and finding another doctor.

[Mortimer Schnerd, RN[_2_]]

Montblack wrote:
> ("Mortimer Schnerd, RN" wrote)
>> Right up to the heart cath, all of the results were false positives. And
>> of course, I never had any symptoms. As a result, I have zero confidence
>> that the FAA will do the right thing in any particular instance.
>
>
> <http://abcnews.go.com/Primetime/story?id=2315693&page=1>
> Talk about false positives. This was weird. I caught about half of it one
> night.


Good God... what a nightmare. I thought I had it bad.

Mine started with a mandatory modem EKG hookup to Oklahoma City while my AME ran
a strip on me while renewing my 1st class medical after turning 35. The FAA
docs said they saw something that would require me to get a stress test in order
to investigate it further. I had no money... I was flying cargo and was paid
about $13,000 a year at the time. I kind of ignored it until I got a letter in
the mail telling me they wouldn't be renewing my medical until I got the test
done... something that would cost me roughly two months salary.

At almost the same instant, we got called into a pilot's meeting at work and
were told the bank had taken our aircraft. Thanks... see ya later.

I signed up for nursing school instead of looking any further for flying jobs.
I had an EKG as part of the mandatory physical before being admitted into school
and it was normal. I sent a copy of it along with the conclusions to the FAA
but they didn't care. It was the stress test or nothing for me.

Fast forward 14 years and I'm being worked up for some abdominal surgery. The
anesthesiologist asks how long has it been since I'd had an EKG? "Quite a
while", I replied. So he ordered one and it said I'd probably had a septal wall
MI at some point in the past. "How odd", I thought, "you'd think I'd remember
having a heart attack". They sent me across the street for my long awaited
stress test (this time paid for by insurance). It said the same thing. They
sent me for a heart cath with possible stent placement.

At the end of the cath, the cardiologist bumps me and tells me my arteries are
completely clear... all the other stuff was apparently false positives. Damn.
I did find one new tidbit of information: I'm allergic to Betadine. I must
have scratched my fire engine red balls for a week.

One more bit of surgery (a new hip) and I was ready to face the world again. I
applied for a third class medical and got it on the spot (I arrived with a ton
of documentation). The FAA hasn't seen any reason to question my AME's finding
either... how about that! But I don't trust the *******s any more.

The good news: I make about four times as much money now and only work two days
a week. I'd still be scraping if I'd stayed in aviation the whole time. But
that still doesn't take the bad taste out of my mouth.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

[Mortimer Schnerd, RN[_2_]]

Steve Foley wrote:
> Let him know in no uncertain terms that this 'diagnosis' will cause you
> financial harm, and that a wrong diagnosis will cause HIM financial harm.


I don't know that I'd draw attention to myself with this guy in any way, shape
or form. He may decide it's his "duty" to report her to the FAA if he knows
she's a pilot. Better to just drop off the radar.


>> Obviously he's an idiot, since 1) fatigue has so many other causes and
>> 2) I don't have depression, never have. This is just a bogus diagnosis.


There are plenty of idiots out there practicing to be sure. I work in a county
hospital and our doctors run the gamut from the seriously gifted to those I
wouldn't bring my parakeet to see. I occasionally work with one internist who
regularly asks me what *I* think is going on with the patient, not to include me
as a feel-good exercise, but because he truly has no idea.

OTOH, I work with a surgeon that I don't think there is another one on this
planet who is his peer... and this is a little county hospital. The bottom line
is that just because the name ends in MD doesn't mean he's necessarily correct.
Somebody has to bring up the rear of the class.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

[Mortimer Schnerd, RN[_2_]]

Gary Drescher wrote:
> The problem is that the FAA's medical form asks you whether you have ever
> been diagnosed with certain conditions (including depression), and it is
> perjury to answer falsely. The form does not ask whether you consider the
> diagnosis correct or whether you consider the diagnosing physician
> competent.


Perjury? I'm shocked anyone would suggest it. Personally, I always tell the
truth. Particularly to the federal government.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

[Jay Beckman]

"Montblack" > wrote in message
...
> ("Mortimer Schnerd, RN" wrote)
>> Right up to the heart cath, all of the results were false positives. And
>> of course, I never had any symptoms. As a result, I have zero confidence
>> that the FAA will do the right thing in any particular instance.
>
>
> <http://abcnews.go.com/Primetime/story?id=2315693&page=1>
> Talk about false positives. This was weird. I caught about half of it one
> night.
>
>
> Montblack
> "...I'm my own grandpa"

Wow,

I've heard of twins having different fathers, but yours is deffinately
weird.

Jay B

[[email protected]]

Emily wrote:
> I've been running a 102 degree fever for the past two weeks and have
> been so tired I can barely get to work. Finally made a doctor's
> appointment (with a new doctor) today, but wasn't planning on getting in
> the same day and had taken Tylenol for the fever...so no fever when I
> showed up.
>
> Long story short, he ordered some blood work, but told me he thinks that
> I am depressed, since I have fatigue with no fever. He said that if the
> blood work comes back normal, he's writing it up as depression.
>
> Obviously he's an idiot, since 1) fatigue has so many other causes and
> 2) I don't have depression, never have. This is just a bogus diagnosis.
>
> My concern is, if he writes this up in my medical records, do I have to
> report it to the FAA? I'm really terrified of this.

Have you had a Lymes test? I don't what part of the country you are in
but you should. Just to rule it out.

[Steve Foley[_1_]]

"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" <mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com> wrote in message
...
> Steve Foley wrote:
> > Let him know in no uncertain terms that this 'diagnosis' will cause you
> > financial harm, and that a wrong diagnosis will cause HIM financial
harm.
>
>
> I don't know that I'd draw attention to myself with this guy in any way,
shape
> or form. He may decide it's his "duty" to report her to the FAA if he
knows
> she's a pilot. Better to just drop off the radar.


I agree 100%. Run - do not walk - away from this 'doctor'.

[Steve Foley[_1_]]

"Emily" > wrote in message
. ..

> I'm getting the results of the lab work (which WILL show anemia),
> skipping the followup appointment, and finding another doctor.

Excellent decision!

[Peter R.]

Emily > wrote:

> Jon Kraus wrote:
>> I can tell by your posts that you aren't out of your twenties yet. Am I
>> wrong?
>
> Yes.
>
> And honestly, that "I'm so mature I think I can tell when people are
> young" isn't mature, it's just annoying.

Nothing personal, but you did imply you were twenty-something in a previous
post, found here in Google's archives: http://tinyurl.com/jeyy4

There is nothing wrong with being twenty-something. The years go by so
fast that in no time you will be over 50, then approaching 80. Don't wish
the years away.

--
Peter

[Mortimer Schnerd, RN[_2_]]

Peter R. wrote:
> Emily > wrote:
>
>> Jon Kraus wrote:
>>> I can tell by your posts that you aren't out of your twenties yet. Am I
>>> wrong?
>>
>> Yes.
>>
>> And honestly, that "I'm so mature I think I can tell when people are
>> young" isn't mature, it's just annoying.
>
> Nothing personal, but you did imply you were twenty-something in a previous
> post, found here in Google's archives: http://tinyurl.com/jeyy4

BWAHAHA!!!! Busted!


> There is nothing wrong with being twenty-something. The years go by so
> fast that in no time you will be over 50, then approaching 80. Don't wish
> the years away.


Ain't that the truth? All it takes is the blink of an eye.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

[Skylune[_1_]]

The med school washouts can always go to flight school, which will then
qualify them as experts in all matters medical, political, financial, etc.

[Jon Kraus]

I knew I was right in my assessment.. Gol darn male intuition... :-)



Peter R. wrote:

> Emily > wrote:
>
>
>>Jon Kraus wrote:
>>
>>>I can tell by your posts that you aren't out of your twenties yet. Am I
>>>wrong?
>>
>>Yes.
>>
>>And honestly, that "I'm so mature I think I can tell when people are
>>young" isn't mature, it's just annoying.
>
>
> Nothing personal, but you did imply you were twenty-something in a previous
> post, found here in Google's archives: http://tinyurl.com/jeyy4
>
> There is nothing wrong with being twenty-something. The years go by so
> fast that in no time you will be over 50, then approaching 80. Don't wish
> the years away.
>

[Jon Kraus]

Yup... Me too.... Matter of fact I volunteer so much information that
they finally have to tell me to shut-up... ;-)



Mortimer Schnerd, RN wrote:

> Gary Drescher wrote:
>
>>The problem is that the FAA's medical form asks you whether you have ever
>>been diagnosed with certain conditions (including depression), and it is
>>perjury to answer falsely. The form does not ask whether you consider the
>>diagnosis correct or whether you consider the diagnosing physician
>>competent.
>
>
>
> Perjury? I'm shocked anyone would suggest it. Personally, I always tell the
> truth. Particularly to the federal government.
>
>
>

[Gary Drescher]

"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" <mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com> wrote in message
...
> Gary Drescher wrote:
>> The problem is that the FAA's medical form asks you whether you have ever
>> been diagnosed with certain conditions (including depression), and it is
>> perjury to answer falsely. The form does not ask whether you consider the
>> diagnosis correct or whether you consider the diagnosing physician
>> competent.
>
> Perjury? I'm shocked anyone would suggest it. Personally, I always tell
> the truth. Particularly to the federal government.

I'm not making a recommendation one way or the other here. I just wanted to
point out why someone might reasonably perceive there to be a problem in the
situation described.

--Gary

[Gary Drescher]

"Peter R." > wrote in message
...
> Emily > wrote:
>
>> Jon Kraus wrote:
>>> I can tell by your posts that you aren't out of your twenties yet. Am I
>>> wrong?
>>
>> Yes.
>>
>> And honestly, that "I'm so mature I think I can tell when people are
>> young" isn't mature, it's just annoying.
>
> Nothing personal, but you did imply you were twenty-something in a
> previous
> post, found here in Google's archives: http://tinyurl.com/jeyy4

It's possible to have been in your twenties previously, but no longer.

--Gary

[Margy Natalie]

wrote:
> Emily wrote:
>
>>I've been running a 102 degree fever for the past two weeks and have
>>been so tired I can barely get to work. Finally made a doctor's
>>appointment (with a new doctor) today, but wasn't planning on getting in
>>the same day and had taken Tylenol for the fever...so no fever when I
>>showed up.
>>
>>Long story short, he ordered some blood work, but told me he thinks that
>>I am depressed, since I have fatigue with no fever. He said that if the
>>blood work comes back normal, he's writing it up as depression.
>>
>>Obviously he's an idiot, since 1) fatigue has so many other causes and
>>2) I don't have depression, never have. This is just a bogus diagnosis.
>>
>>My concern is, if he writes this up in my medical records, do I have to
>>report it to the FAA? I'm really terrified of this.
>
>
> Have you had a Lymes test? I don't what part of the country you are in
> but you should. Just to rule it out.
>
Lymes is a disqualifying condition. I was given antibiotics after a
suspicious bite. When I reported this to my AME as a possible Lymes he
responded with "DID YOU TEST POSITIVE FOR LYMES"? When I said no he
informed me that I was not to write the word Lymes anywhere.

Margy

[Jose[_1_]]

>>Nothing personal, but you did imply you were twenty-something in a
>> previous
>> post, found here in Google's archives: http://tinyurl.com/jeyy4
> It's possible to have been in your twenties previously, but no longer.

Besides, she implied she was "twenty something". Like maybe "twenty
twenty-five"? :)

Jose
--
There are more ways to skin a cat than there are cats.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Emily[_1_]]

wrote:
> Emily wrote:
<snip>
>
> Have you had a Lymes test? I don't what part of the country you are in
> but you should. Just to rule it out.

I don't think we have it around here, and I haven't seen a tick in
years, but it's something to keep in mind, I guess.

[Emily[_1_]]

Margy Natalie wrote:
> wrote:
>> Emily wrote:
>>
>>> I've been running a 102 degree fever for the past two weeks and have
>>> been so tired I can barely get to work. Finally made a doctor's
>>> appointment (with a new doctor) today, but wasn't planning on getting in
>>> the same day and had taken Tylenol for the fever...so no fever when I
>>> showed up.
>>>
>>> Long story short, he ordered some blood work, but told me he thinks that
>>> I am depressed, since I have fatigue with no fever. He said that if the
>>> blood work comes back normal, he's writing it up as depression.
>>>
>>> Obviously he's an idiot, since 1) fatigue has so many other causes and
>>> 2) I don't have depression, never have. This is just a bogus diagnosis.
>>>
>>> My concern is, if he writes this up in my medical records, do I have to
>>> report it to the FAA? I'm really terrified of this.
>>
>>
>> Have you had a Lymes test? I don't what part of the country you are in
>> but you should. Just to rule it out.
>>
> Lymes is a disqualifying condition.

Where is THAT written?

[Emily[_1_]]

Skylune wrote:
> The med school washouts can always go to flight school, which will then
> qualify them as experts in all matters medical, political, financial, etc.

I'm no expert in medicine, but I AM an expert in my body.

I SWEAR I had you kill filed....

[Margy Natalie]

Emily wrote:
> wrote:
>
>> Emily wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>>
>> Have you had a Lymes test? I don't what part of the country you are in
>> but you should. Just to rule it out.
>
>
> I don't think we have it around here, and I haven't seen a tick in
> years, but it's something to keep in mind, I guess.
Deer ticks you don't see. They are about the size of a pin head. I've
had two occasions with funny looking bites. They just treat with
antibiotics in case. Actually, once they offered me a choice of either
treating or waiting to see if Lymes developed. I thought they were nuts
in offering the option. After I said, "I'll take the antibiotics" the
Dr. said "good choice, the worst that could happen is you took a course
of antibiotics you didn't need, Lymes is bad news".

Margy

[Margy Natalie]

Emily wrote:
> Margy Natalie wrote:
>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Emily wrote:
>>>
>>>> I've been running a 102 degree fever for the past two weeks and have
>>>> been so tired I can barely get to work. Finally made a doctor's
>>>> appointment (with a new doctor) today, but wasn't planning on
>>>> getting in
>>>> the same day and had taken Tylenol for the fever...so no fever when I
>>>> showed up.
>>>>
>>>> Long story short, he ordered some blood work, but told me he thinks
>>>> that
>>>> I am depressed, since I have fatigue with no fever. He said that if
>>>> the
>>>> blood work comes back normal, he's writing it up as depression.
>>>>
>>>> Obviously he's an idiot, since 1) fatigue has so many other causes and
>>>> 2) I don't have depression, never have. This is just a bogus
>>>> diagnosis.
>>>>
>>>> My concern is, if he writes this up in my medical records, do I have to
>>>> report it to the FAA? I'm really terrified of this.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Have you had a Lymes test? I don't what part of the country you are in
>>> but you should. Just to rule it out.
>>>
>> Lymes is a disqualifying condition.
>
>
> Where is THAT written?
My AME said Lymes is a classified as a neurological disease. I guess
disqualifying was the wrong word, but there are MANY hoops you have to
go through to prove there is no neurological damage.

Margy

[Mxsmanic]

Emily writes:

> Long story short, he ordered some blood work, but told me he thinks that
> I am depressed, since I have fatigue with no fever. He said that if the
> blood work comes back normal, he's writing it up as depression.

Is he a psychiatrist?

Maybe he just wants to sell antidepressants. If you go to a
psychiatrist and he tells you that you are not depressed, then you
might wish to speak to your new doctor about medical malpractice.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

[Mxsmanic]

Emily writes:

> And to take this farther, how do I keep a doctor from writing all sorts
> of bogus things in my records?

You get second or multiple opinions from doctors with good
reputations. If a diagnosis is incorrect, it's unlikely that they
will all concur.

For a diagnosis of mental disorder, you need to see a psychiatrist
(same principle of multiple opinions applies)--a psychiatrist being a
medical doctor specialized in that domain.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

[Mxsmanic]

Emily writes:

> This wasn't an AME.

Then see a doctor who is. I doubt that she will concur with this
armchair diagnosis of depression. Better yet, find an AME who is also
a psychiatrist, if such exist.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

[Mxsmanic]

Emily writes:

> Read the application again. It asked if you've ever had or been
> diagnosed with the list of problems.

Is depression on the list?

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

[Mxsmanic]

Emily writes:

> I've participated in life plenty....you don't even know how old I am.
> I've just never experienced a doctor singlehandedly try to get my
> medical revoked for absolutely no reason.

Did he tell you he was doing that?

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

[Mxsmanic]

Mortimer Schnerd, RN writes:

> Fast forward 14 years and I'm being worked up for some abdominal surgery. The
> anesthesiologist asks how long has it been since I'd had an EKG? "Quite a
> while", I replied. So he ordered one and it said I'd probably had a septal wall
> MI at some point in the past. "How odd", I thought, "you'd think I'd remember
> having a heart attack".

They don't always produce symptoms.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

[Mxsmanic]

Emily writes:

> I'm getting the results of the lab work (which WILL show anemia),
> skipping the followup appointment, and finding another doctor.

You don't want anemia, because it prevents you from working at
altitude.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

[Peter R.]

Margy Natalie > wrote:

> Deer ticks you don't see. They are about the size of a pin head. I've
> had two occasions with funny looking bites. They just treat with
> antibiotics in case.


Margy, I think you are on to something with your recommendation. Here is a
list of potential symptoms of Lyme disease, which includes depression,
fatigue, and fever:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyme_Disease

Living in a heavily infested deer-tick area of upstate New York state
(thanks to the fact that the state still won't allow any type of hunting on
nearby state park land and the deer reproduce far greater than local
rabbits), I can relate a few tidbits of deer tick information from personal
experience:

1) A deer tick bite (assuming the tick is still not attached) will appear
as a bulls-eye type red mark in the area immediately surrounding the bite.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Lymebite.png

2) An engorged deer tick still attached to the skin will be much bigger
than a pin head. The tick's body, which will be the part above the skin,
will be grey in color and about the depth of a pencil eraser, but narrower
in width.

3) If you do spot a tick on your skin, all of the OWT about how to remove
them (touching it with a burnt match head, covering it with Vasoline, etc.)
are, in fact, fallacy and can result in the tick regurgitating its contents
back into your bloodstream. Definitely increases the chances of
contracting Lyme disease.

We have been most successful using a tick puller, which is a US 5$ plastic
set of wide tweezers that pinch the tick in the area just at skin level.
With a slow, gentle rotating and pulling motion, this tool will pull the
tick intact from the skin, as opposed to leaving the head behind, another
potentially dangerous side-effect of using an incorrect method. If you
don't have this special tool, a standard set of tweezers will work, but use
caution to not squeeze the body of the tick too hard.

You then should throw the tick into a plastic sandwich bag and bring it to
your local health department for Lyme disease testing, as well as notify
your doctor.

4) A fully engorged tick will eventually drop off on its own, usually after
only a couple of days, to then reproduce.

Somewhere I read that only about 1 in 100,000 ticks carry Lyme disease, but
I don't have a site.

--
Peter

[Peter R.]

Mxsmanic > wrote:

> Emily writes:
>
>> This wasn't an AME.
>
> Then see a doctor who is. I doubt that she will concur with this
> armchair diagnosis of depression. Better yet, find an AME who is also
> a psychiatrist, if such exist.

That is actually very bad advice to those pilots who value their medical
certificate. A real pilot knows not to place the responsibilities of
normal healthcare in the hands of the same doctor who signs one's medical
certificate.

--
Peter

[Steve Foley[_1_]]

"Skylune" > wrote in message
lkaboutaviation.com...
> The med school washouts can always go to flight school, which will then
> qualify them as experts in all matters medical, political, financial, etc.
>

And the flight school washouts can whine about airport noise.

[Grumman-581[_3_]]

"Jose" > wrote in message
. ..
> Besides, she implied she was "twenty something". Like maybe "twenty
> twenty-five"? :)

Nawh, if a woman says "twenty something", it means that at best, her 30th
birthday is coming up rather soon...

[Grumman-581[_3_]]

"Peter R." > wrote in message
...
> That is actually very bad advice to those pilots who value their medical
> certificate. A real pilot knows not to place the responsibilities of
> normal healthcare in the hands of the same doctor who signs one's medical
> certificate.

My philosophy is to not go to doctors unless something is obviously broken
(i.e. bone sticking through the skin, etc)... The problem with going to the
doctor is that you find out things that you really don't want to know...

[Grumman-581[_3_]]

"Steve Foley" > wrote in message
news:E_RNg.51745$Qb2.9596@trnddc08...
> Let him know in no uncertain terms that this 'diagnosis' will cause you
> financial harm, and that a wrong diagnosis will cause HIM financial harm.

Nawh, Emily's in Texas now, so it's, "a wrong diagnosis will case him
*physical* harm"...

[Grumman-581[_3_]]

"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" <mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com> wrote in message
...
> Her new internist blew her off. Now it's her turn.

So, you're saying that she should blow off her internist?

Hmmm... That might work... <dirty-old-man-grin>

And yet another USENET topic morphs into a sex thread...

[Jose[_1_]]

>>Like maybe "twenty
>> twenty-five"? :)
> Nawh, if a woman says "twenty something", it means that at best, her 30th
> birthday is coming up rather soon...

"twenty twenty-five" should be interpreted the same way as "twenty
three" or "twenty nine". :)

Me, I'm thirty-three. Hex.

Jose
--
There are more ways to skin a cat than there are cats.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Peter R.]

Grumman-581 > wrote:

> My philosophy is to not go to doctors unless something is obviously broken
> (i.e. bone sticking through the skin, etc)... The problem with going to the
> doctor is that you find out things that you really don't want to know...

At one time that was the "manly Marine" thing to do, but do you have
grandchildren? If so, you are doing them a great disservice by not going
routinely and at least getting your PSA tested regularly for prostate
cancer, which has no outward symptoms until it's too late.

Famous people who died of prostate cancer that may possibly have been
treated had the cancer been caught early enough:

http://felix.unife.it/Root/d-Medicine/d-Oncology/d-Special-oncology/d-Prostate-cancer/b-Prostate-cancer-famous


--
Peter

[Mortimer Schnerd, RN[_2_]]

Mxsmanic wrote:
> Emily writes:
>
>> This wasn't an AME.
>
> Then see a doctor who is. I doubt that she will concur with this
> armchair diagnosis of depression. Better yet, find an AME who is also
> a psychiatrist, if such exist.


This is great advice... IF she's ready to retire. You do not go to your AME for
physical problems unless they are truly debilitating, and even then, why bother?
If I have a stroke, I'll just quit flying. No need to give an AME $100 just to
tell me he can't approve my medical.

My best advice is to ignore this "diagnosis" and go find a doctor who will truly
investigate the cause of her fever. Don't take any aspirin or Tylenol before
you go to see him, either.

And stay the hell away from the AME unless you HAVE to see him.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

[Mortimer Schnerd, RN[_2_]]

Mxsmanic wrote:
>> Fast forward 14 years and I'm being worked up for some abdominal surgery.
>> The anesthesiologist asks how long has it been since I'd had an EKG? "Quite
>> a while", I replied. So he ordered one and it said I'd probably had a
>> septal wall MI at some point in the past. "How odd", I thought, "you'd
>> think I'd remember having a heart attack".
>
> They don't always produce symptoms.


Particularly when one has never occurred. All told the false positives cost my
insurance company somewhere over $5,000. I didn't feel their pain.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

[Dave S]

If you arent taking antidepressants, nope.

Change docs. NOW. Fire the one you have. He clearly isnt listening to
you as a patient.

Dave

Emily wrote:
> I've been running a 102 degree fever for the past two weeks and have
> been so tired I can barely get to work. Finally made a doctor's
> appointment (with a new doctor) today, but wasn't planning on getting in
> the same day and had taken Tylenol for the fever...so no fever when I
> showed up.
>
> Long story short, he ordered some blood work, but told me he thinks that
> I am depressed, since I have fatigue with no fever. He said that if the
> blood work comes back normal, he's writing it up as depression.
>
> Obviously he's an idiot, since 1) fatigue has so many other causes and
> 2) I don't have depression, never have. This is just a bogus diagnosis.
>
> My concern is, if he writes this up in my medical records, do I have to
> report it to the FAA? I'm really terrified of this.
>

[Grumman-581[_3_]]

"Jose" > wrote in message
.. .
> "twenty twenty-five" should be interpreted the same way as "twenty
> three" or "twenty nine". :)

So, for a woman, it means 35, 33, or 39...

[Dave S]

Emily wrote:
> Jon Kraus wrote:
>
>> Haven't you learned the "life isn't fair lesson" yet? :-)
>>
>> Just keep your mouth shut and quit worrying about it. As long as you
>> aren't taking anti-depressants you don't have anything to worry about.
>
>
> Read the application again. It asked if you've ever had or been
> diagnosed with the list of problems.

A psychiatric diagnosis is a 5-axis (element) diagnosis, in accordance
with the DSM-IV that results from a comprehensive interview with a
trained mental health professional.

Your average doc in the box general practicioner or internist does not
have the time, nor inclination, to arrive at this diagnosis from the
same perspective as a trained mental health professional (which includes
psychiatrists, psychologists and other midlevel providers).

Based on your version of events being 100% truthful and accurate,

First and foremost.. you need to fire this doc. Now.

Select a new practicioner. In a different office/practice/group even if
its the same HMO.

Go in for a complete physical exam/initial visit and sit and discuss the
prior experience with the NEW practicioner, and explain your reason for
concern (I'm a pilot) with the old practicioner.

Also follow up/get the original problem addressed. Fever and malaise are
non-specific, which means MANY things can cause it, none of which are
smoking guns.. Bacterial infections, viral infections, Auto-immune
disorders.. Get checked for mono. A sed rate (a type of lab test) can
also show the presence of immune system stimulation/chronic inflammation
(its another non-specific indicator, but says SOMETHING is up, just not
what)

It goes without saying to be reasonable, measured and objective in
discussing the situation/previous practitioner.

As for disclosure on your next medical: You aren't taking
antidepressants.. and you aren't under the clinical care of a mental
health professional.. and you have not had a psychiatric diagnosis
rendered by a QUALIFIED mental health professional.. so vote your
conscience there. If you disclose, you WILL have hoops to jump through,
including the likelihood of a mandated visit to a psych MD, and likely
have a deferred medical in the interim.


Dave
RN and other stuff.

[Skylune[_1_]]

Yes. Do everything possible, legal or not, to avert the FAA medical
"requirements," which I have argued are a joke and this thread provides
some nice evidence that the pilot community agrees.

Like with all else GA-related, obey only those regulations you happen to
agree with.

[Skylune[_1_]]

"I SWEAR I had you kill filed...."

Maybe the fever caused the confusion....

[Skylune[_1_]]

So can some retired naval aviators I know personally.....

[Skylune[_1_]]

...AND the tax subsidies. Don't forget about the tax subsidies to GA!

[Jose[_1_]]

>> "twenty twenty-five" should be interpreted the same way as "twenty
>> three" or "twenty nine". :)
> So, for a woman, it means 35, 33, or 39...

No. It means 45.

Jose
--
There are more ways to skin a cat than there are cats.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Mxsmanic]

Peter R. writes:

> That is actually very bad advice to those pilots who value their medical
> certificate. A real pilot knows not to place the responsibilities of
> normal healthcare in the hands of the same doctor who signs one's medical
> certificate.

Hmm ... how come?

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

[Jon Kraus]

Unless her birthday was between August 17 (the date of her
self-proclaiming "in my 20's" post) and today, then she is still in her
20's... I guess it is in the realm of possibility but the odds are
against her...

Please just let me be right on this one!! My wife will tell you I don't
get to be right that often. ;-) Emily, Rachel or whatever her name is
is in her 20's and I was correct in my assessment..

Gotta love Google Group's searches...

Gary Drescher wrote:
> "Peter R." > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Emily > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Jon Kraus wrote:
>>>
>>>>I can tell by your posts that you aren't out of your twenties yet. Am I
>>>>wrong?
>>>
>>>Yes.
>>>
>>>And honestly, that "I'm so mature I think I can tell when people are
>>>young" isn't mature, it's just annoying.
>>
>>Nothing personal, but you did imply you were twenty-something in a
>>previous
>>post, found here in Google's archives: http://tinyurl.com/jeyy4
>
>
> It's possible to have been in your twenties previously, but no longer.
>
> --Gary
>
>

[Jon Kraus]

I don't know... she's already lied about her age.... ;-)

Dave S wrote:

>
> Based on your version of events being 100% truthful and accurate,
>

[Sylvain]

Gary Drescher wrote:
> It asks both. It asks if you've ever been diagnosed for the specified
> conditions, and it asks if you've ever had the specified conditions.

how would you know if you have never been diagnosed? (I am not talking
about common sense or being smart here, but about plausible deniability)

--Sylvain

[Sylvain]

"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" <mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com> wrote:

> They do not send letters out to every physician in the state asking: "do
> you know this person?".

they don't have to; unless she paid the visit cash, the info is known
to the health insurance; in turn the health insurance companies share
information, not only between themselves, but also with whatever
information aggregator is willing to pay for it; in turn, anyone willing
to pay lexis-nexis -- or whoever else -- fee, has access to it too.
The funny part is that these info are kept for who knows how long, and
by people who have no obligation to keep it accurate...

Now where it becomes really fun is that a physician doesn't actually need
to have met you in person before contributing to your medical file (I found
out for instance that I was described as a female patient -- which I am
not -- in one of the record of an hospital where spent several months
following an accident -- i.e., it's not as if they didn't have time
to have a look)

--Sylvain

[Jay Beckman]

"Sylvain" > wrote in message
...
> "Mortimer Schnerd, RN" <mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com> wrote:
>
>> They do not send letters out to every physician in the state asking: "do
>> you know this person?".
>
> they don't have to; unless she paid the visit cash, the info is known
> to the health insurance; in turn the health insurance companies share
> information, not only between themselves, but also with whatever
> information aggregator is willing to pay for it; in turn, anyone willing
> to pay lexis-nexis -- or whoever else -- fee, has access to it too.
> The funny part is that these info are kept for who knows how long, and
> by people who have no obligation to keep it accurate...
>
> Now where it becomes really fun is that a physician doesn't actually need
> to have met you in person before contributing to your medical file (I
> found
> out for instance that I was described as a female patient -- which I am
> not -- in one of the record of an hospital where spent several months
> following an accident -- i.e., it's not as if they didn't have time
> to have a look)
>
> --Sylvain

HIPPA Laws:

http://www.hhs.gov/ocr/privacysummary.pdf#search=%22hipaa%20laws%22

Covers what can and can't be shared and by whom.

Jay B

[Emily[_1_]]

Margy Natalie wrote:
> Emily wrote:
>> Margy Natalie wrote:
>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Emily wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I've been running a 102 degree fever for the past two weeks and have
>>>>> been so tired I can barely get to work. Finally made a doctor's
>>>>> appointment (with a new doctor) today, but wasn't planning on
>>>>> getting in
>>>>> the same day and had taken Tylenol for the fever...so no fever when I
>>>>> showed up.
>>>>>
>>>>> Long story short, he ordered some blood work, but told me he thinks
>>>>> that
>>>>> I am depressed, since I have fatigue with no fever. He said that
>>>>> if the
>>>>> blood work comes back normal, he's writing it up as depression.
>>>>>
>>>>> Obviously he's an idiot, since 1) fatigue has so many other causes and
>>>>> 2) I don't have depression, never have. This is just a bogus
>>>>> diagnosis.
>>>>>
>>>>> My concern is, if he writes this up in my medical records, do I
>>>>> have to
>>>>> report it to the FAA? I'm really terrified of this.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Have you had a Lymes test? I don't what part of the country you are in
>>>> but you should. Just to rule it out.
>>>>
>>> Lymes is a disqualifying condition.
>>
>>
>> Where is THAT written?
> My AME said Lymes is a classified as a neurological disease. I guess
> disqualifying was the wrong word, but there are MANY hoops you have to
> go through to prove there is no neurological damage.
>
> Margy
That makes sense, I guess.
Then again, there are a lot of things that can result in neurological
damage. :-)

[Emily[_1_]]

Peter R. wrote:
> Mxsmanic > wrote:
>
>> Emily writes:
>>
>>> This wasn't an AME.
>> Then see a doctor who is. I doubt that she will concur with this
>> armchair diagnosis of depression. Better yet, find an AME who is also
>> a psychiatrist, if such exist.
>
> That is actually very bad advice to those pilots who value their medical
> certificate. A real pilot knows not to place the responsibilities of
> normal healthcare in the hands of the same doctor who signs one's medical
> certificate.
>
He's giving medical advice now?

What you said cannot be made clear enough to people who do not know. DO
NOT use an AME as your normal doctor. NEVER. EVER.

[Emily[_1_]]

Grumman-581 wrote:
> "Mortimer Schnerd, RN" <mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com> wrote in message
> ...
>> Her new internist blew her off. Now it's her turn.
>
> So, you're saying that she should blow off her internist?
>
> Hmmm... That might work... <dirty-old-man-grin>
>
> And yet another USENET topic morphs into a sex thread...
>
>
I've met some MD's where that might be an option. <evil grin>

[Emily[_1_]]

Jon Kraus wrote:
> I don't know... she's already lied about her age.... ;-)

That's a woman's prerogative. Either I'm old and fat or young stupid.
I'll keep my age to myself, thank you.

[Emily[_1_]]

Dave S wrote:
> Emily wrote:
<snip>
>
> Based on your version of events being 100% truthful and accurate,
>
> First and foremost.. you need to fire this doc. Now.

He's fired. The lab results are being mailed (he can't even call me
like his former partner) and I'm not planning on making a follow up
appointment with him.

The fact is, he didn't even diagnosis my with depression, he said he
would if the lab results came back normal. First, I'll bet my life they
will show anemia, which should make him happy that he has a diagnosis,
and second, I'm not planning on talking to him ever again, so I have no
way of knowing WHAT he writes in my file.

End of story.

[Sylvain]

Jay Beckman wrote:

> HIPPA Laws:
> http://www.hhs.gov/ocr/privacysummary.pdf#search=%22hipaa%20laws%22
> Covers what can and can't be shared and by whom.

yep, I know about that; doesn't prevent you from getting medical
files via information aggregators; business as usual, (Do you
seriously believe that HIPPA protects your privacy?)

--Sylvain

[Morgans[_2_]]

> Then see a doctor who is. I doubt that she will concur with this
> > armchair diagnosis of depression. Better yet, find an AME who is also
> > a psychiatrist, if such exist.
>
> That is actually very bad advice to those pilots who value their medical
> certificate. A real pilot knows not to place the responsibilities of
> normal healthcare in the hands of the same doctor who signs one's medical
> certificate.

Once again, Mxsm shows that he is clueless. What is he now, 0 out of 100?

Sheesh!
--
Jim in NC

[Emily[_1_]]

Morgans wrote:
> > Then see a doctor who is. I doubt that she will concur with this
>>> armchair diagnosis of depression. Better yet, find an AME who is also
>>> a psychiatrist, if such exist.
>> That is actually very bad advice to those pilots who value their medical
>> certificate. A real pilot knows not to place the responsibilities of
>> normal healthcare in the hands of the same doctor who signs one's medical
>> certificate.
>
> Once again, Mxsm shows that he is clueless. What is he now, 0 out of 100?
>
> Sheesh!

What *I* think is funny is that he writes as if every word out of his
mouth is gospel.

I mean, seriously, how is a sim player qualified to give anyone advice
on their medical? He gave very dangerous information and I can only
hope that no inexperienced student pilot believes his advice.

[Aluckyguess[_1_]]

Get a new doctor. If you had a fever and there is an infection the blood
work will show it.

"Emily" > wrote in message
. ..
> Matt Whiting wrote:
> <snip>
>>>
>>> My concern is, if he writes this up in my medical records, do I have to
>>> report it to the FAA? I'm really terrified of this.
>>
>> Yes, you have to report it at your next medical
>
> Even though I don't have depression?! 102 degree fever indicates
> infection, no depression (which I don't have anyway). How could a routine
> appointment for a fever make me lost my medical? This is the most unfair
> thing I've ever encountered, just because of some doctor's incompetence.
> He's making something up, because he doesn't want to take the time to find
> out what's REALLY wrong. I'm sorry, but seeing a patient for two minutes
> does not qualify anyone to diagnos depression...and the fact that I don't
> have it means a lot.
>
> And to take this farther, how do I keep a doctor from writing all sorts of
> bogus things in my records? Fever and fatigue also are symptoms of AIDS,
> what if he's written THAT? See what I'm saying?

[Matt Whiting]

Emily wrote:
> Morgans wrote:
>
>> > Then see a doctor who is. I doubt that she will concur with this
>>
>>>> armchair diagnosis of depression. Better yet, find an AME who is also
>>>> a psychiatrist, if such exist.
>>>
>>> That is actually very bad advice to those pilots who value their medical
>>> certificate. A real pilot knows not to place the responsibilities of
>>> normal healthcare in the hands of the same doctor who signs one's
>>> medical
>>> certificate.
>>
>>
>> Once again, Mxsm shows that he is clueless. What is he now, 0 out of
>> 100?
>>
>> Sheesh!
>
>
> What *I* think is funny is that he writes as if every word out of his
> mouth is gospel.
>
> I mean, seriously, how is a sim player qualified to give anyone advice
> on their medical? He gave very dangerous information and I can only
> hope that no inexperienced student pilot believes his advice.

How is the information he gave dangerous?

Matt

[Trevor]

Emily wrote:

> Morgans wrote:
> > > Then see a doctor who is. I doubt that she will concur with this
> >>> armchair diagnosis of depression. Better yet, find an AME who is also
> >>> a psychiatrist, if such exist.
> >> That is actually very bad advice to those pilots who value their medical
> >> certificate. A real pilot knows not to place the responsibilities of
> >> normal healthcare in the hands of the same doctor who signs one's medical
> >> certificate.
> >
> > Once again, Mxsm shows that he is clueless. What is he now, 0 out of 100?
> >
> > Sheesh!
>
> What *I* think is funny is that he writes as if every word out of his
> mouth is gospel.
>
> I mean, seriously, how is a sim player qualified to give anyone advice
> on their medical? He gave very dangerous information and I can only
> hope that no inexperienced student pilot believes his advice.

Amusing? Sure. Dangerous? Hardly.

I wouldn't worry too much about someone getting advice from Usenet that isn't
vetted.

[Mxsmanic]

Trevor writes:

> Amusing? Sure. Dangerous? Hardly.

If I understand properly, some people here are suggesting that one
hide disqualifying conditions from AMEs, which is a lot more dangerous
than anything I've said.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

[Mxsmanic]

Emily writes:

> First, I'll bet my life they will show anemia, which should make
> him happy that he has a diagnosis ...

Anemia will make it dangerous for you to fly. You don't want that.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

[Trevor]

Mxsmanic wrote:

> Trevor writes:
>
> > Amusing? Sure. Dangerous? Hardly.
>
> If I understand properly, some people here are suggesting that one
> hide disqualifying conditions from AMEs, which is a lot more dangerous
> than anything I've said.

You do not understand properly. Enough said.

[Emily[_1_]]

Matt Whiting wrote:
> Emily wrote:
>> Morgans wrote:
>>
>>> > Then see a doctor who is. I doubt that she will concur with this
>>>
>>>>> armchair diagnosis of depression. Better yet, find an AME who is also
>>>>> a psychiatrist, if such exist.
>>>>
>>>> That is actually very bad advice to those pilots who value their
>>>> medical
>>>> certificate. A real pilot knows not to place the responsibilities of
>>>> normal healthcare in the hands of the same doctor who signs one's
>>>> medical
>>>> certificate.
>>>
>>>
>>> Once again, Mxsm shows that he is clueless. What is he now, 0 out of
>>> 100?
>>>
>>> Sheesh!
>>
>>
>> What *I* think is funny is that he writes as if every word out of his
>> mouth is gospel.
>>
>> I mean, seriously, how is a sim player qualified to give anyone advice
>> on their medical? He gave very dangerous information and I can only
>> hope that no inexperienced student pilot believes his advice.
>
> How is the information he gave dangerous?
>
> Matt

You think it's a good idea for a student pilot to take his advice? It's
irresponsible to put information out there like that.

[Trevor]

Emily wrote:

> Matt Whiting wrote:
> > Emily wrote:
> >> Morgans wrote:
> >>
> >>> > Then see a doctor who is. I doubt that she will concur with this
> >>>
> >>>>> armchair diagnosis of depression. Better yet, find an AME who is also
> >>>>> a psychiatrist, if such exist.
> >>>>
> >>>> That is actually very bad advice to those pilots who value their
> >>>> medical
> >>>> certificate. A real pilot knows not to place the responsibilities of
> >>>> normal healthcare in the hands of the same doctor who signs one's
> >>>> medical
> >>>> certificate.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Once again, Mxsm shows that he is clueless. What is he now, 0 out of
> >>> 100?
> >>>
> >>> Sheesh!
> >>
> >>
> >> What *I* think is funny is that he writes as if every word out of his
> >> mouth is gospel.
> >>
> >> I mean, seriously, how is a sim player qualified to give anyone advice
> >> on their medical? He gave very dangerous information and I can only
> >> hope that no inexperienced student pilot believes his advice.
> >
> > How is the information he gave dangerous?
> >
> > Matt
>
> You think it's a good idea for a student pilot to take his advice?

Good idea or no, how is the information he gave "dangerous?"

> It's
> irresponsible to put information out there like that.

This is UseNet. Some information is excellent, some is written by computer game
players. Caveat emptor.

[Jay Beckman]

"Sylvain" > wrote in message
t...
> Jay Beckman wrote:
>
>> HIPPA Laws:
>> http://www.hhs.gov/ocr/privacysummary.pdf#search=%22hipaa%20laws%22
>> Covers what can and can't be shared and by whom.
>
> yep, I know about that; doesn't prevent you from getting medical
> files via information aggregators; business as usual, (Do you
> seriously believe that HIPPA protects your privacy?)
>
> --Sylvain

Yes I do.

But then I'm married to a Human Resources professional who know more about
it than I. She's got some "great" stories about how she can't ask certain
questions even when an employee is face down on the office floor having had
a stroke.

Jay B

[Montblack[_1_]]

("Mortimer Schnerd, RN" wrote)
>> Nothing personal, but you did imply you were twenty-something in a
>> previous post, found here in Google's archives: http://tinyurl.com/jeyy4

> BWAHAHA!!!! Busted!


(Re: emergency landing in downtown Montreal ends well)

"Nah, happens here, too. I learned in driver's ed about streets getting
oily, but it rained a lot where I learned to drive and I never
experienced it.

First time it rained here, I took a corner too fast and spun out...it
felt like I was driving on a solid sheet of ice. Of course, being used
to driving in snow, it was easy to recover. Scary stuff!"

(Monblack here)
"...driver's ed..."

Hmm? I'm comfortable calling it "Under 30." Is 26 taken?

Next, we guess weight. <g>


Montblack
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0094593/
18 Again! (1988)

Original hit song, sung by George Burns, will play here. :-)
"I wish I was 18 again." (1980)

("Why shouldn't I be a country singer?" he deadpanned. "I'm older than most
countries.")

(From Wikipedia)
Burns continued to work well into his nineties, writing a number of books
and appearing in television and films. One of his last films was 18 Again,
based on a half-novelty, country music based hit single he enjoyed, "I Wish
I Was 18 Again." ("Why shouldn't I be a country singer?" he deadpanned. "I'm
older than most countries.") In this film, he played a self-made millionaire
industrialist who switched bodies with his awkward, artistic,
eighteen-year-old grandson (played by Charlie Schlatter).

Classically, Burns delivered one of his typical droll observations, when he
realizes he and his grandson have switched bodies: "Oh, David, did you get
the short end of this deal!"

[Sylvain]

Jay Beckman wrote:

>> (Do you
>> seriously believe that HIPPA protects your privacy?)
>
> Yes I do.

well I don't.

> But then I'm married to a Human Resources professional who know more about
> it than I. She's got some "great" stories about how she can't ask certain
> questions even when an employee is face down on the office floor having
> had a stroke.

I got a few fun stories too; I no longer count the number of
'illegal' questions I got asked during job interviews or during
the course of employment, e.g., age, marital status, nature of my
disability -- I walk on crutches -- prying questions about my
ethnic background -- I have a funny accent and an exotic name -- etc.
Not to mention unsolicited commercial mail that uses information
that either employers or health care providers should have kept
to themselves (you can easily keep track of that by carefully chosen
typos or choice of spelling etc. when you fill out application forms
-- an idea suggested long ago by a professor I had in college)
And that's for the deliberate/willful leaks, don't get me started
with how reckless administrations and corporations are with your
private data...

In other words, no, HIPPA does not give me the same warm and fuzzy
feeling as it does to you... but hey, may be is it just me.

--Sylvain

[Montblack[_1_]]

("Jon Kraus" wrote)
> As long as you aren't taking anti-depressants you don't have anything to
> worry about.


Well, that was certainly depressing ...despite the word "anti" being bandied
about. <g>


Montblack

http://www.oldestgarageband.com/

http://www.oldestgarageband.com/duck_and_cover.htm
Couldn't get #7 to play on my computer :-(

(On the actual CD, it's song #8 ...oops, misprint)

Crazy Baby
By: Joan Osborn

And they look at you like they don't speak your language
And you're living at the bottom of a well
And you've swallowed all the awful bloody secrets
But you can't tell...

Oh, you know you ought to get yourself together
But you cannot bear to walk outside your door
No, you cannot bear to look into the mirror
Anymore...

Oh, my crazy baby
Try to hold on tight
Oh, my crazy baby
Don't put out the light...
The light, the light, the light

And your hands are really shakin' somethin' awful
As your worries climb around inside your clothes
Oh, how long will you be sittin' in the darkness
Heaven knows...

[Montblack[_1_]]

Will play here:

http://www.angelfire.com/me5/mybeliefs/iwishiwash18again.html
Original hit song, sung by George Burns, will play here.
"I wish I was 18 again." (1980)


> Montblack
> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0094593/
> 18 Again! (1988)
>
> Original hit song, sung by George Burns, will play here. :-)
> "I wish I was 18 again." (1980)
>
> ("Why shouldn't I be a country singer?" he deadpanned. "I'm older than
> most
> countries.")
>
> (From Wikipedia)
> Burns continued to work well into his nineties, writing a number of books
> and appearing in television and films. One of his last films was 18 Again,
> based on a half-novelty, country music based hit single he enjoyed, "I
> Wish
> I Was 18 Again." ("Why shouldn't I be a country singer?" he deadpanned.
> "I'm
> older than most countries.") In this film, he played a self-made
> millionaire
> industrialist who switched bodies with his awkward, artistic,
> eighteen-year-old grandson (played by Charlie Schlatter).
>
> Classically, Burns delivered one of his typical droll observations, when
> he realizes he and his grandson have switched bodies: "Oh, David, did you
> get the short end of this deal!"

[Montblack[_1_]]

("Sylvain" wrote)
> how would you know if you have never been diagnosed? (I am not talking
> about common sense or being smart here, but about plausible deniability)


<http://www.judicialwatch.org/archive/ois/cases/filegate/ickes_ex1.htm>
Team - "I have no specific recollection"

or

"Sybil's not here at the moment"


Montblack
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0075296/
Sybil (1976) TV

"Curiosity killed the cat, so don't wonder."
"Curiosity didn't tear the cat's head off, Sweetie."

"Who dat who say who dat who say who dat?"

[Jay Beckman]

"Sylvain" > wrote in message
t...
> Jay Beckman wrote:
>
>>> (Do you
>>> seriously believe that HIPPA protects your privacy?)
>>
>> Yes I do.
>
> well I don't.
>
>> But then I'm married to a Human Resources professional who know more
>> about
>> it than I. She's got some "great" stories about how she can't ask
>> certain
>> questions even when an employee is face down on the office floor having
>> had a stroke.
>
>I got a few fun stories too; I no longer count the number of 'illegal'
>questions I got asked during job interviews or during the course of
>employment, e.g., age, >marital status, nature of my disability -- I
>walk on crutches -- prying questions about my ethnic background -- I have
>a funny accent and an exotic name -- etc.

Did you pursue the matter or just stew and bitch? You get no sympathy here
if all you ever did was just roll over and take it. Laws don't work in a
vaccuum. They exsist to redress wrongs but nothing happens if someone
doesn't yell foul.

>Not to mention unsolicited commercial mail that uses information that
>either employers or health care providers should have kept to themselves
>(you can easily >keep track of that by carefully chosen typos or choice of
>spelling etc. when you fill out application forms -- an idea suggested long
>ago by a professor I had in >college)

Clever idea, actually. However, I would think that most applications would
be denied or rendered void if it was proven you were willfully entering
misleading or false information.

>And that's for the deliberate/willful leaks,

Just 'cause you aren't paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get you.
Are you keeping some secret that these companies think the world should know
about?

>don't get me started with how reckless administrations and corporations
>are with your private data...

Uh, ok...

>In other words, no, HIPPA does not give me the same warm and fuzzy feeling
>as it does to you... but hey, may be is it just me.

I never said it was perfect or foolproof but it sounds like you've either
worked for or encountered some pretty scummy individuals or fly by night
operations.

Unfortunately, there are many corporations that do not follow HR laws and
regulations (and there are way more than most people are even remotely aware
of...) My wife would be kicked to the curb instantly if she were to be
caught shopping personal info...especially medical information...which she
can't, because she isn't allowed to see it because of HIPPA (funny how that
works, eh?)

Next time, you might try contacting the office of the Attorney General for
the state in which you claim these companies are shopping your info. You
might also want to get in touch with a local or state professional society
relating to Human Resources and file a complaint and/or the Dept of HHS.

I'm not saying medical data mining/sharing/shopping doesn't happen, but
there are laws against it and therefore, there is recourse. Unless you'd
rather sit home and just be shat upon.

Your choice...

Jay B

[Montblack[_1_]]

("Mortimer Schnerd, RN" wrote)
> They don't know what they're not told.


I could find out what half the people on this newsgroup are taking, without
too much effort. Type in a name to "the system" ...BOOM, there's half your
high school graduating class, at your fingertips.

Pharmacy Techs are low paid, educated, smart people, who sometimes get bored
at work.

Walgreen's anyone? How about Target? Blue Cross? Wal-Mart?


Montblack

[Sylvain]

Jay Beckman wrote:

> Did you pursue the matter or just stew and bitch? You get no sympathy
> here

well, too bad then, but I was not really trying to get sympathy; just
pointing out that there can be a world of differences between how
things should be happening and how they do happen; seriously, you do
know what the odds are -- as in, real life odds, as opposed to
tv-drama life odds -- of getting anything out of 'pursueing
the matter' in such cases? I didn't know, so I inquired, just out
of curiosity, then moved on. (note: in a profession where one
depends heavily on previous references, being litiguous, even for
a good legitimate reason, even if you win, is not the best career
choice one can make)

>>spelling etc. when you fill out application forms -- an idea suggested
>>long ago by a professor I had in >college)
>
> Clever idea, actually. However, I would think that most applications
> would be denied or rendered void if it was proven you were willfully
> entering misleading or false information.

does not have to be misleading or false; but for instance there can
be different ways/formats of entering your address that are equally
valid; different ways of spelling your name (e.g., be creative
with regards so suffixes, middle name), and of course, never
give twice the same email address, etc.

> Just 'cause you aren't paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get you.

I am glad you aren't diagnosing me as paranoid, would have had to
report it on the ol' 8500-9 at the next medical :-)

--Sylvain

[Matt Whiting]

Emily wrote:
> Matt Whiting wrote:
>
>> Emily wrote:
>>
>>> Morgans wrote:
>>>
>>>> > Then see a doctor who is. I doubt that she will concur with this
>>>>
>>>>>> armchair diagnosis of depression. Better yet, find an AME who is
>>>>>> also
>>>>>> a psychiatrist, if such exist.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> That is actually very bad advice to those pilots who value their
>>>>> medical
>>>>> certificate. A real pilot knows not to place the responsibilities of
>>>>> normal healthcare in the hands of the same doctor who signs one's
>>>>> medical
>>>>> certificate.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Once again, Mxsm shows that he is clueless. What is he now, 0 out
>>>> of 100?
>>>>
>>>> Sheesh!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> What *I* think is funny is that he writes as if every word out of his
>>> mouth is gospel.
>>>
>>> I mean, seriously, how is a sim player qualified to give anyone
>>> advice on their medical? He gave very dangerous information and I
>>> can only hope that no inexperienced student pilot believes his advice.
>>
>>
>> How is the information he gave dangerous?
>>
>> Matt
>
>
> You think it's a good idea for a student pilot to take his advice? It's
> irresponsible to put information out there like that.

I don't see how having two doctors rather than one is dangerous advice,
student pilot or otherwise. That appears to be the essence of his
recommendation above.

Matt

[Emily[_1_]]

Matt Whiting wrote:
> Emily wrote:
>> Matt Whiting wrote:
>>
>>> Emily wrote:
>>>
>>>> Morgans wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> > Then see a doctor who is. I doubt that she will concur with this
>>>>>
>>>>>>> armchair diagnosis of depression. Better yet, find an AME who is
>>>>>>> also
>>>>>>> a psychiatrist, if such exist.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That is actually very bad advice to those pilots who value their
>>>>>> medical
>>>>>> certificate. A real pilot knows not to place the responsibilities of
>>>>>> normal healthcare in the hands of the same doctor who signs one's
>>>>>> medical
>>>>>> certificate.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Once again, Mxsm shows that he is clueless. What is he now, 0 out
>>>>> of 100?
>>>>>
>>>>> Sheesh!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What *I* think is funny is that he writes as if every word out of
>>>> his mouth is gospel.
>>>>
>>>> I mean, seriously, how is a sim player qualified to give anyone
>>>> advice on their medical? He gave very dangerous information and I
>>>> can only hope that no inexperienced student pilot believes his advice.
>>>
>>>
>>> How is the information he gave dangerous?
>>>
>>> Matt
>>
>>
>> You think it's a good idea for a student pilot to take his advice?
>> It's irresponsible to put information out there like that.
>
> I don't see how having two doctors rather than one is dangerous advice,
> student pilot or otherwise. That appears to be the essence of his
> recommendation above.
>
> Matt

I was replying to a post by Mxsm in where he said I should see an AME
about this.

[Viperdoc[_1_]]

HIPAA does protect a patient's privacy. These days, without a signed release
from an individual we can't get any information regarding a patient's
history or diagnosis.

Regarding the original thread, the OP's symptoms need to meet the criteria
spelled out in the DSM, a book that describes the symptoms of various
psychiatric diagnoses. Meeting these criteria helps the health professional
make these diagnoses, similar to an internist getting a series of lab tests
and other studies to make their diagnoses.

If the OP had responded affirmatively to these questions (if they were even
asked), then there may have been a chance that she was/is in fact depressed.
A prolonged and persistent fever of unknown origin is another matter
entirely, and also requires an extensive medical workup, since such symptoms
could be ominous as well.

An off the cuff remark about appearing depressed and a failure to follow up
on a prolonged fever seems a bit glib and superficial, but again we weren't
in the exam room, so don't know all of the conversation that was discussed.
These days, however, the number of patients coming to my practice on
antidepressants has skyrocketed. Either depression has become pandemic in
the general population, or the drug salesmen have been extremely successful
in their promotion of these drugs.

At the very least she should see another primary care physician, someone who
will pay attention and listen to her complaints. The best resource for this
is to talk to other health professionals who know the individual physicians.
(The worst resource is to get information is word of mouth, because the
slickest and "nicest" doctor according to someone's aunt, may also be
technically weak).

Finally, she should sign a release and get a copy of all of her medical
records from the original physician. If the record states that she is
depressed, she should have the record corrected, either by the original
physician, or by another health professional. The record should state
something like: no evidence of depression either currently or in the recent
past during a febrile episode, and does/did not meet DSM criteria for this
diagnosis.

With such a statement she could clearly fill out her FAA form and say she
had never been diagnosed as having had a history of depression.

Just my interpretation as an AME and flight surgeon.

[The Visitor]

But now after a few days off and a little vacation you feel just fine
and happy and energetic.

But if in the future you have a fever, see a different doc. Some are
better than others, I think.

Emily wrote:

> I've been running a 102 degree fever for the past two weeks and have
> been so tired I can barely get to work. Finally made a doctor's
> appointment (with a new doctor) today, but wasn't planning on getting in
> the same day and had taken Tylenol for the fever...so no fever when I
> showed up.
>
> Long story short, he ordered some blood work, but told me he thinks that
> I am depressed, since I have fatigue with no fever. He said that if the
> blood work comes back normal, he's writing it up as depression.
>
> Obviously he's an idiot, since 1) fatigue has so many other causes and
> 2) I don't have depression, never have. This is just a bogus diagnosis.
>
> My concern is, if he writes this up in my medical records, do I have to
> report it to the FAA? I'm really terrified of this.
>

[Stubby]

Matt Whiting wrote:
> Emily wrote:
>
<...>
>> My concern is, if he writes this up in my medical records, do I have
>> to report it to the FAA? I'm really terrified of this.
>
> Yes, you have to report it at your next medical, but I can't remember if
> you have to report it right away. I'd call an AME and ask. I think you
> also should get a second opinion right away.
<...>
I just saw my AME and disclosed a "condition" when I filled out the
application for a 3rd class certificate. When I got my turn with the
doc, I told him in words about the problem and he said, "You didn't put
that on the application, did you?"

He said he can often dictate words that comply with the need to disclose
but minimize the FAA's interest. He said he would use words such as
"infrequent", "controlled", ... He said I might "get a letter from the
FAA asking for more info".

[Peter R.]

Trevor > wrote:

> This is UseNet. Some information is excellent, some is written by computer game
> players. Caveat emptor.

My twelve years or so of Usenet has shown me that bad advice given by those
with no real knowledge of a topic under a newsgroup's subject never stands
on its own. It will always be corrected, at least to a point where it not
an all out danger to someone who might blindly follow it.

--
Peter

[Margy Natalie]

Mxsmanic wrote:
> Trevor writes:
>
>
>>Amusing? Sure. Dangerous? Hardly.
>
>
> If I understand properly, some people here are suggesting that one
> hide disqualifying conditions from AMEs, which is a lot more dangerous
> than anything I've said.
>
I don't think you get it. There are a number of conditions that are not
disqulifying, but could still cause some consternation. You probably
should go through all the day to day discussion of your health care with
your primary doctor, evaluating all of your options. When you come up
with a solution both you and your medical can take you go to your AME
for your medical.

Not dangerous, prudent,

Margy

[Margy Natalie]

Mxsmanic wrote:
> Emily writes:
>
>
>>First, I'll bet my life they will show anemia, which should make
>>him happy that he has a diagnosis ...
>
>
> Anemia will make it dangerous for you to fly. You don't want that.
>
Anemia means you have to take iron pills. Not dangerous. BTW anemia in
women is NOT considered the major problem it is in men.

Margy

[Margy Natalie]

Montblack wrote:
> ("Mortimer Schnerd, RN" wrote)
>
>>> Nothing personal, but you did imply you were twenty-something in a
>>> previous post, found here in Google's archives:
>>> http://tinyurl.com/jeyy4
>
>
>> BWAHAHA!!!! Busted!
>
>
>
> (Re: emergency landing in downtown Montreal ends well)
>
> "Nah, happens here, too. I learned in driver's ed about streets getting
> oily, but it rained a lot where I learned to drive and I never
> experienced it.
>
> First time it rained here, I took a corner too fast and spun out...it
> felt like I was driving on a solid sheet of ice. Of course, being used
> to driving in snow, it was easy to recover. Scary stuff!"
>
> (Monblack here)
> "...driver's ed..."
>
> Hmm? I'm comfortable calling it "Under 30." Is 26 taken?
>
> Next, we guess weight. <g>
>
>

Won't work Monblack, I can quote what I learned in Driver's Ed and that
was ... well, more than 30 years ago.

Margy (damned, now everyone knows I'm over 30)

[[email protected]]

Trevor wrote:
> Emily wrote:
>
> > Matt Whiting wrote:
> > > Emily wrote:
> > >> Morgans wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> > Then see a doctor who is. I doubt that she will concur with this
> > >>>
> > >>>>> armchair diagnosis of depression. Better yet, find an AME who is also
> > >>>>> a psychiatrist, if such exist.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> That is actually very bad advice to those pilots who value their
> > >>>> medical
> > >>>> certificate. A real pilot knows not to place the responsibilities of
> > >>>> normal healthcare in the hands of the same doctor who signs one's
> > >>>> medical
> > >>>> certificate.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Once again, Mxsm shows that he is clueless. What is he now, 0 out of
> > >>> 100?
> > >>>
> > >>> Sheesh!
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> What *I* think is funny is that he writes as if every word out of his
> > >> mouth is gospel.
> > >>
> > >> I mean, seriously, how is a sim player qualified to give anyone advice
> > >> on their medical? He gave very dangerous information and I can only
> > >> hope that no inexperienced student pilot believes his advice.
> > >
> > > How is the information he gave dangerous?
> > >
> > > Matt
> >
> > You think it's a good idea for a student pilot to take his advice?
>
> Good idea or no, how is the information he gave "dangerous?"
>
> > It's
> > irresponsible to put information out there like that.
>
> This is UseNet. Some information is excellent, some is written by computer game
> players. Caveat emptor.

shouldn't that be caveat lector?

[Allen[_1_]]

"Margy Natalie" > wrote in message
m...
> Montblack wrote:
>> ("Mortimer Schnerd, RN" wrote)
>>
>>>> Nothing personal, but you did imply you were twenty-something in a
>>>> previous post, found here in Google's archives:
>>>> http://tinyurl.com/jeyy4
>>
>>
>>> BWAHAHA!!!! Busted!
>>
>>
>>
>> (Re: emergency landing in downtown Montreal ends well)
>>
>> "Nah, happens here, too. I learned in driver's ed about streets getting
>> oily, but it rained a lot where I learned to drive and I never
>> experienced it.
>>
>> First time it rained here, I took a corner too fast and spun out...it
>> felt like I was driving on a solid sheet of ice. Of course, being used
>> to driving in snow, it was easy to recover. Scary stuff!"
>>
>> (Monblack here)
>> "...driver's ed..."
>>
>> Hmm? I'm comfortable calling it "Under 30." Is 26 taken?
>>
>> Next, we guess weight. <g>
>>
>>
>
> Won't work Monblack, I can quote what I learned in Driver's Ed and that
> was ... well, more than 30 years ago.
>
> Margy (damned, now everyone knows I'm over 30)

Heh, since you had to be at least 14 years old to take Driver's Ed I say
that puts you well into the 40's :-)

Allen

[Montblack[_1_]]

("Margy Natalie" wrote)
> Won't work Monblack, I can quote what I learned in Driver's Ed and that
> was ... well, more than 30 years ago.
>
> Margy (damned, now everyone knows I'm over 30)


It was the casual reference to Drivers Ed, which people over 30 seldom do
anymore.

Like a kid saying they're 6 1/2 years old. Around 40 you stop inserting half
years into conversation. <g>


Montblack
Margy, you don't look a day over 26. A year or two maybe, but not a day.
:-)

[Margy Natalie]

Allen wrote:
> "Margy Natalie" > wrote in message
> m...
>
>>Montblack wrote:
>>
>>>("Mortimer Schnerd, RN" wrote)
>>>
>>>
>>>>>Nothing personal, but you did imply you were twenty-something in a
>>>>>previous post, found here in Google's archives:
>>>>>http://tinyurl.com/jeyy4
>>>
>>>
>>>>BWAHAHA!!!! Busted!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>(Re: emergency landing in downtown Montreal ends well)
>>>
>>>"Nah, happens here, too. I learned in driver's ed about streets getting
>>>oily, but it rained a lot where I learned to drive and I never
>>>experienced it.
>>>
>>>First time it rained here, I took a corner too fast and spun out...it
>>>felt like I was driving on a solid sheet of ice. Of course, being used
>>>to driving in snow, it was easy to recover. Scary stuff!"
>>>
>>>(Monblack here)
>>>"...driver's ed..."
>>>
>>>Hmm? I'm comfortable calling it "Under 30." Is 26 taken?
>>>
>>>Next, we guess weight. <g>
>>>
>>>
>>Won't work Monblack, I can quote what I learned in Driver's Ed and that
>>was ... well, more than 30 years ago.
>>
>>Margy (damned, now everyone knows I'm over 30)
>
>
> Heh, since you had to be at least 14 years old to take Driver's Ed I say
> that puts you well into the 40's :-)
>
> Allen
>
>
Yeah, but who's counting :-). I hear 50 is the new 30! I figure the
older I get the cooler my toys get.

Margy

[Mxsmanic]

Margy Natalie writes:

> Anemia means you have to take iron pills. Not dangerous.

This is incorrect. Anemia affects the ability of the cardiovascular
system to maintain oxygenation of organs and tissues; a person with
anemia is dramatically more prone to altitude sickness and hypoxia in
general. Thus, an anemic person may not be able to safely pilot a
plane. In severe cases, an anemic person may place himself at risk
just by riding in a plane (including pressurized cabins, since they
may still have fairly high cabin altitudes).

Just because the FAA doesn't explicitly disqualify a condition doesn't
mean that it's safe to fly with it.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

[Mortimer Schnerd, RN[_2_]]

Margy Natalie wrote:
> Won't work Monblack, I can quote what I learned in Driver's Ed and that
> was ... well, more than 30 years ago.
>
> Margy (damned, now everyone knows I'm over 30)


Damn. Were there Pteradactyls in the traffic patten back then?



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

[Thomas Borchert]

Mxsmanic,

> Just because the FAA doesn't explicitly disqualify a condition doesn't
> mean that it's safe to fly with it.
>

said the sim gamer...

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Grumman-581[_3_]]

"Emily" > wrote in message
. ..
> The fact is, he didn't even diagnosis my with depression, he said he
> would if the lab results came back normal. First, I'll bet my life they
> will show anemia, which should make him happy that he has a diagnosis,
> and second, I'm not planning on talking to him ever again, so I have no
> way of knowing WHAT he writes in my file.

Nawh, you'll talk to him again... You're a woman and as such are genetically
predisposed to not be able to pass up an opportunity to tell a man that he
is wrong (whether or not that really in the case does not matter)...

[Jon Kraus]

Right here:

From: Emily - view profile
Date: Thurs, Aug 17 2006 10:41 pm
Email: Emily >
Groups: rec.aviation.piloting
Not yet rated
Rating:
show options
Reply | Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show
original | Report Abuse | Find messages by this author

Jim Carter wrote:
> As Jim suggested, check with the Civil Air Patrol. We are losing a lot
> of our members who were flyers in Korea and 'Nam because of age and
> infirmities.

Since you mention this, I'll ask....would a 20-something female fit in
at all? I've been thinking about it, and really am not afraid of being
the only woman (I work in the industry, and rarely see women) but I
always got a feeling it was an old boys club. True?


>>>From: Emily >
>>>Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 12:03:28 -0500
>>>
>>>
>>>>Since I've made postings alluding to my ratings, it's obvious to anyone with
>>>
>>>any sort of knowledge of the FARs that I am at the very least 18.
>>>
>>
>>That doesn't mean I'm in my 20's, but whatever.
>
>
> Where did I say that you were/weren't in your 20s, but whatever?
>
>
>>I thought anyone would
>>realize that if a person has a certficiate, she's at least 17.
>
>
> How could someone know what certificates you might/might not have from the post on usenet?
>

[Michelle P]

Emily wrote:
> I've been running a 102 degree fever for the past two weeks and have
> been so tired I can barely get to work. Finally made a doctor's
> appointment (with a new doctor) today, but wasn't planning on getting in
> the same day and had taken Tylenol for the fever...so no fever when I
> showed up.
>
> Long story short, he ordered some blood work, but told me he thinks that
> I am depressed, since I have fatigue with no fever. He said that if the
> blood work comes back normal, he's writing it up as depression.
>
> Obviously he's an idiot, since 1) fatigue has so many other causes and
> 2) I don't have depression, never have. This is just a bogus diagnosis.
>
> My concern is, if he writes this up in my medical records, do I have to
> report it to the FAA? I'm really terrified of this.
>
NO, not unless it is really true. It takes more than blood work to
determine if you have depression. I takes an evaluation by a
psychological professional.

Michelle P

[Allen[_1_]]

"Margy Natalie" > wrote in message
m...
> Allen wrote:
>> "Margy Natalie" > wrote in message
>> m...
>>
>>>Montblack wrote:
>>>
>>>>("Mortimer Schnerd, RN" wrote)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>Nothing personal, but you did imply you were twenty-something in a
>>>>>>previous post, found here in Google's archives:
>>>>>>http://tinyurl.com/jeyy4
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>BWAHAHA!!!! Busted!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>(Re: emergency landing in downtown Montreal ends well)
>>>>
>>>>"Nah, happens here, too. I learned in driver's ed about streets getting
>>>>oily, but it rained a lot where I learned to drive and I never
>>>>experienced it.
>>>>
>>>>First time it rained here, I took a corner too fast and spun out...it
>>>>felt like I was driving on a solid sheet of ice. Of course, being used
>>>>to driving in snow, it was easy to recover. Scary stuff!"
>>>>
>>>>(Monblack here)
>>>>"...driver's ed..."
>>>>
>>>>Hmm? I'm comfortable calling it "Under 30." Is 26 taken?
>>>>
>>>>Next, we guess weight. <g>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>Won't work Monblack, I can quote what I learned in Driver's Ed and that
>>>was ... well, more than 30 years ago.
>>>
>>>Margy (damned, now everyone knows I'm over 30)
>>
>>
>> Heh, since you had to be at least 14 years old to take Driver's Ed I say
>> that puts you well into the 40's :-)
>>
>> Allen
> Yeah, but who's counting :-). I hear 50 is the new 30! I figure the
> older I get the cooler my toys get.
>
> Margy


My mind still thinks it's 20, but it has a hard time convincing my body
:~(

Allen

[TFP]

Peter R. wrote:
> Margy Natalie > wrote:
>
> > Deer ticks you don't see. They are about the size of a pin head. I've
> > had two occasions with funny looking bites. They just treat with
> > antibiotics in case.
>
>
> Margy, I think you are on to something with your recommendation. Here is a
> list of potential symptoms of Lyme disease, which includes depression,
> fatigue, and fever:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyme_Disease
>
> Living in a heavily infested deer-tick area of upstate New York state
> (thanks to the fact that the state still won't allow any type of hunting on
> nearby state park land and the deer reproduce far greater than local
> rabbits), I can relate a few tidbits of deer tick information from personal
> experience:
>
> 1) A deer tick bite (assuming the tick is still not attached) will appear
> as a bulls-eye type red mark in the area immediately surrounding the bite.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Lymebite.png
>
> 2) An engorged deer tick still attached to the skin will be much bigger
> than a pin head. The tick's body, which will be the part above the skin,
> will be grey in color and about the depth of a pencil eraser, but narrower
> in width.
>
> 3) If you do spot a tick on your skin, all of the OWT about how to remove
> them (touching it with a burnt match head, covering it with Vasoline, etc.)
> are, in fact, fallacy and can result in the tick regurgitating its contents
> back into your bloodstream. Definitely increases the chances of
> contracting Lyme disease.
>
> We have been most successful using a tick puller, which is a US 5$ plastic
> set of wide tweezers that pinch the tick in the area just at skin level.
> With a slow, gentle rotating and pulling motion, this tool will pull the
> tick intact from the skin, as opposed to leaving the head behind, another
> potentially dangerous side-effect of using an incorrect method. If you
> don't have this special tool, a standard set of tweezers will work, but use
> caution to not squeeze the body of the tick too hard.
>
> You then should throw the tick into a plastic sandwich bag and bring it to
> your local health department for Lyme disease testing, as well as notify
> your doctor.
>
> 4) A fully engorged tick will eventually drop off on its own, usually after
> only a couple of days, to then reproduce.
>
> Somewhere I read that only about 1 in 100,000 ticks carry Lyme disease, but
> I don't have a site.
>
> --
> Peter

Trust me ... only about 1 in 3 people get the rash. And since its now
been found that the ticks that harbor Borrelia burgdoferi are living on
some song-birds, the problem is spreading quickly.

I know because I have it. Its an absolute horror.

I've been sick for 2 and a half years, and the treatment, because I was
undiagnosed for 1 and a half years, is 12 to 18 months.

Needless to say ... no flying for me in a long while (since September
of 2003).

Check out:


http://microbewiki.kenyon.edu/index.php/Borrelia


TFP

[Grumman-581[_3_]]

"Sylvain" > wrote in message
...
> I am glad you aren't diagnosing me as paranoid, would have had to
> report it on the ol' 8500-9 at the next medical :-)

Of course I'm paranoid... I'm firmly convinced that gravity is out to get
me...

[Grumman-581[_3_]]

"Montblack" > wrote in message
...
> Like a kid saying they're 6 1/2 years old. Around 40 you stop inserting
half
> years into conversation. <g>

Nawh, you just stay with the decades... 40-something... 50-something...
60-something... really-****in'-old-something...

[Grumman-581[_3_]]

"Margy Natalie" > wrote in message
m...
> Yeah, but who's counting :-). I hear 50 is the new 30! I figure the
> older I get the cooler my toys get.

Sounds like you need new batteries... <dirty-old-man-grin>

[Grumman-581[_3_]]

"Skylune" > wrote in message
lkaboutaviation.com...
> Like with all else GA-related, obey only those regulations you happen to
> agree with.

And why should that be any different than anything else in life?

[TFP]

Emily wrote:
> wrote:
> > Emily wrote:
> <snip>
> >
> > Have you had a Lymes test? I don't what part of the country you are in
> > but you should. Just to rule it out.
>
> I don't think we have it around here, and I haven't seen a tick in
> years, but it's something to keep in mind, I guess.

Emily et al:

The tick is called a deer tick, although it is now believed that the
primary vector for the tick itself is song-birds. The tick is also
only the size of a poppy seed when it attaches, and no bigger than a
sesame seed when it is done feeding. Quite small indeed.

If your symptoms persist ... get the test done, especially if you
notice any tingling sensations anywhere, or pain in your face, teeth,
or sinuses. For reasons not known many people with Lyme disease
eventually get mild sinusitis with considerable unremitting facial pain
that cannot be explained by the sinusisitis, or any dental issues that
might be present The best method for Lyme testing is via PCR (genetic
testing) which is done by iGeneX Labs in California.

Lyme (not LYMES) Disease is horrible, and hard to detect, diagnose, and
treat. I had to stop flying (and doing pretty much everything else)
quite suddenly 3 years ago because of it, and am now in treatment.
Because it went undetected by less than compentent doctors for over a
year and a half, my treatment will likely be 18 months long. I've
received antibiotics for 12 months and am now about 60% recovered.

If nothing else shows up in your normal blood testing, get this
particular test done! Don't listen to a doctor that says "there isn't
any Lyme Disease around here" or "you don't have a rash, so you can't
have Lyme Disease". I lived in a large city, never had a rash, and the
extent of my outdoorsiness amounted to the occasional fly-in to a grass
runway, and exposure to a house cat that was allowed to run in and
outside.

The Wikipedia entries are very good on the subject. Look up Lyme
Disease (of course!) and Borrelia burgdorferi (the spirochete that
causes the disease).

All the best ...

TFP

[Montblack[_1_]]

> Pharmacy Techs are low paid, educated, smart people, who sometimes get
> bored at work.
>
> Walgreen's anyone? How about Target? Blue Cross? Wal-Mart?


BTW, it was a college roommate of a person I know - I don't work in the
industry.

But it did put a chill in me how readily accessible this info was,
especially now, with large computer networks....

Maybe big, better, security also comes with bigger, better, data-base
computer networks.


Montblack

[Jay Honeck]

> Yeah, but who's counting :-). I hear 50 is the new 30! I figure the
> older I get the cooler my toys get.

Amen, sister!

As I approach my 48th birthday, I'm realizing more and more that...um,
er....

*?*

.....What were we talking about again?

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Dave S]

Mxsmanic wrote:
> Margy Natalie writes:
>
>
>>Anemia means you have to take iron pills. Not dangerous.
>
>
> This is incorrect. Anemia affects the ability of the cardiovascular
> system to maintain oxygenation of organs and tissues; a person with
> anemia is dramatically more prone to altitude sickness and hypoxia in
> general. Thus, an anemic person may not be able to safely pilot a
> plane. In severe cases, an anemic person may place himself at risk
> just by riding in a plane (including pressurized cabins, since they
> may still have fairly high cabin altitudes).
>
> Just because the FAA doesn't explicitly disqualify a condition doesn't
> mean that it's safe to fly with it.
>

Anemia is a matter of degrees. If your hemoglobin level is 0.1 mg/dl
lower than that particular lab's reference values for normal levels, you
technically are anemic. An abnormal lab value DOES NOT mean you
automatically manifest clinical symptoms.

As margy said, in women, there are many conditions that can result in
"anemia" that are easily treatable with iron supplementation.

How "dramatic" the effect you are claiming is a function of oxygen
delivery to the tissues, which is multifactorial, not tied SIMPLY to one
value.

Treat the patient, not the number (or the monitor, or the machine, or
the lab value).

Dave

[Al[_1_]]

"Emily" > wrote in message
. ..
> Matt Whiting wrote:
> <snip>
>>>
>>> My concern is, if he writes this up in my medical records, do I have to
>>> report it to the FAA? I'm really terrified of this.
>>
>> Yes, you have to report it at your next medical
>

> Even though I don't have depression?! 102 degree fever indicates
> infection, no depression (which I don't have anyway). How could a routine
> appointment for a fever make me lost my medical? This is the most unfair
> thing I've ever encountered, just because of some doctor's incompetence.
> He's making something up, because he doesn't want to take the time to find
> out what's REALLY wrong. I'm sorry, but seeing a patient for two minutes
> does not qualify anyone to diagnos depression...and the fact that I don't
> have it means a lot.
>
> And to take this farther, how do I keep a doctor from writing all sorts of
> bogus things in my records? Fever and fatigue also are symptoms of AIDS,
> what if he's written THAT? See what I'm saying?


Somebody will come up with the exact wording, but as I remember it does ask
"Do you have", "Have you had", and "Have you been treated for". In your
case the answer is no to all questions. DO NOT accept a prescription for
anti-depressants.

I've recently been through this with my AME, the FAA, and a depression
diagnosis. The were only interested if I had been taking medications, which
I had. After a couple of months off the meds, and with a special issuance
2nd class for a year, I'm back in business.

Being depressed and being a pilot is not unusual, and not illegal.
Chemically doing something about it will get you grounded.

Al G

[Margy Natalie]

Grumman-581 wrote:
> "Margy Natalie" > wrote in message
> m...
>
>>Yeah, but who's counting :-). I hear 50 is the new 30! I figure the
>>older I get the cooler my toys get.
>
>
> Sounds like you need new batteries... <dirty-old-man-grin>
>
>

Why would that be? <sweet, innocent, young thing bats lashes >

Margy

[Mxsmanic]

Dave S writes:

> Anemia is a matter of degrees. If your hemoglobin level is 0.1 mg/dl
> lower than that particular lab's reference values for normal levels, you
> technically are anemic. An abnormal lab value DOES NOT mean you
> automatically manifest clinical symptoms.

But it is also possible to have no clinical symptoms on the ground,
and yet show severe symptoms at altitude.

> How "dramatic" the effect you are claiming is a function of oxygen
> delivery to the tissues, which is multifactorial, not tied SIMPLY to one
> value.

Whatever the factors involved, flying while anemic is not a good idea.
You don't want to find out that you have the wrong combination of
factors by passing out at 5000 feet.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

[Mxsmanic]

Montblack writes:

> Maybe big, better, security also comes with bigger, better, data-base
> computer networks.

Unfortunately, the latter often (usually) comes without the former.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

[Matt Whiting]

Emily wrote:
> Matt Whiting wrote:
>
>> Emily wrote:
>>
>>> Matt Whiting wrote:
>>>
>>>> Emily wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Morgans wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> > Then see a doctor who is. I doubt that she will concur with this
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> armchair diagnosis of depression. Better yet, find an AME who
>>>>>>>> is also
>>>>>>>> a psychiatrist, if such exist.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That is actually very bad advice to those pilots who value their
>>>>>>> medical
>>>>>>> certificate. A real pilot knows not to place the
>>>>>>> responsibilities of
>>>>>>> normal healthcare in the hands of the same doctor who signs one's
>>>>>>> medical
>>>>>>> certificate.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Once again, Mxsm shows that he is clueless. What is he now, 0 out
>>>>>> of 100?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sheesh!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> What *I* think is funny is that he writes as if every word out of
>>>>> his mouth is gospel.
>>>>>
>>>>> I mean, seriously, how is a sim player qualified to give anyone
>>>>> advice on their medical? He gave very dangerous information and I
>>>>> can only hope that no inexperienced student pilot believes his advice.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> How is the information he gave dangerous?
>>>>
>>>> Matt
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> You think it's a good idea for a student pilot to take his advice?
>>> It's irresponsible to put information out there like that.
>>
>>
>> I don't see how having two doctors rather than one is dangerous
>> advice, student pilot or otherwise. That appears to be the essence of
>> his recommendation above.
>>
>> Matt
>
>
> I was replying to a post by Mxsm in where he said I should see an AME
> about this.

I still don't see how that is dangerous. Not good advice, but hardly
dangerous.

Matt

[Jay B]

> I am glad you aren't diagnosing me as paranoid, would have had to
> report it on the ol' 8500-9 at the next medical :-)
>
> --Sylvain

Unfortunately, that seems to be the crux of the problem that Emily is
facing.

It's the "Have you ever been diagonsed..." that is a prickly issue.

Jay B

[Private]

"Grumman-581" > wrote in message
...
>
> Nawh, you'll talk to him again... You're a woman and as such are
> genetically
> predisposed to not be able to pass up an opportunity to tell a man that he
> is wrong (whether or not that really in the case does not matter)...
>

If a man talks in the woods and there is nobody there to hear him,
is he still wrong?

[Emily[_1_]]

Margy Natalie wrote:
> Mxsmanic wrote:
>> Emily writes:
>>
>>
>>> First, I'll bet my life they will show anemia, which should make
>>> him happy that he has a diagnosis ...
>>
>>
>> Anemia will make it dangerous for you to fly. You don't want that.
>>
> Anemia means you have to take iron pills. Not dangerous. BTW anemia in
> women is NOT considered the major problem it is in men.
>
> Margy

Exactly. I know what causes my anemia (what woman doesn't?) and it's
very well controlled if I take a multivitamin. I'm also aware that I
feel hypoxia earlier tha most, and fly accordingly.

[Dave S]

Mxsmanic wrote:

>
>
> But it is also possible to have no clinical symptoms on the ground,
> and yet show severe symptoms at altitude.

And its also possible to have no clinical symptoms at altitude. We can
"maybe" this all day and all night if you like.

>
>
>>How "dramatic" the effect you are claiming is a function of oxygen
>>delivery to the tissues, which is multifactorial, not tied SIMPLY to one
>>value.
>
>
> Whatever the factors involved, flying while anemic is not a good idea.
> You don't want to find out that you have the wrong combination of
> factors by passing out at 5000 feet.

Are you going to be asymptomatic then magically pass out at 5k feet?
Hardly. And again, anemia is a matter of degrees. Normal hemoglobin
levels have a LOW normal value in the ballpark of 13-14 grams/dl. There
is a lower acceptable low value in women as opposed to men.

We dont begin to transfuse blood to patients until they are below 10
grams (75% of normal) and THIS is only if the patient is already
seriously ill or has heart disease (roughly paraphrased, too sick to
have a medical certificate for a pilots license) In non cardiac patients
we dont even consider transfusion unless below 9, 8 or even seven grams
(up to 50 percent of your normal blood concentration, depending on the
<lack of> clinical symptoms). Above the threshhold, patients are usually
managed just fine medically (iron supplementation, epogen) if they arent
actually bleeding somewhere..

Your supposed "wrong combination of factors" is utter nonsense.

So.. how about YOU stick to what you know.. flying sims.. leave the real
flying to the real pilots.. and leave the medical stuff to the folks who
deal with it for a living?

[TFP]

TFP wrote:
> Emily wrote:
> > wrote:
> > > Emily wrote:
> > <snip>
> > >
> > > Have you had a Lymes test? I don't what part of the country you are in
> > > but you should. Just to rule it out.
> >
> > I don't think we have it around here, and I haven't seen a tick in
> > years, but it's something to keep in mind, I guess.
>
> Emily et al:
>
> The tick is called a deer tick, although it is now believed that the
> primary vector for the tick itself is song-birds. The tick is also
> only the size of a poppy seed when it attaches, and no bigger than a
> sesame seed when it is done feeding. Quite small indeed.
>
> If your symptoms persist ... get the test done, especially if you
> notice any tingling sensations anywhere, or pain in your face, teeth,
> or sinuses. For reasons not known many people with Lyme disease
> eventually get mild sinusitis with considerable unremitting facial pain
> that cannot be explained by the sinusisitis, or any dental issues that
> might be present The best method for Lyme testing is via PCR (genetic
> testing) which is done by iGeneX Labs in California.
>
> Lyme (not LYMES) Disease is horrible, and hard to detect, diagnose, and
> treat. I had to stop flying (and doing pretty much everything else)
> quite suddenly 3 years ago because of it, and am now in treatment.
> Because it went undetected by less than compentent doctors for over a
> year and a half, my treatment will likely be 18 months long. I've
> received antibiotics for 12 months and am now about 60% recovered.
>
> If nothing else shows up in your normal blood testing, get this
> particular test done! Don't listen to a doctor that says "there isn't
> any Lyme Disease around here" or "you don't have a rash, so you can't
> have Lyme Disease". I lived in a large city, never had a rash, and the
> extent of my outdoorsiness amounted to the occasional fly-in to a grass
> runway, and exposure to a house cat that was allowed to run in and
> outside.
>
> The Wikipedia entries are very good on the subject. Look up Lyme
> Disease (of course!) and Borrelia burgdorferi (the spirochete that
> causes the disease).
>
> All the best ...
>
> TFP

Sorry ... one further note ... the test to request FIRST from iGenX is
called a Western Blot test. If this test is indeterminate, THEN follow
up with the PCR test.

All pilot issues aside, Lyme Disease is a very serious and spreading
condition (some medical authorities esimate that it is the #1 vector
borne disease in North America, in terms of rate of growth in the human
population) that doesn't resolve on its own.

Unlike what other writers here heve indicated, normal blood tests will
probably not show signs of infection, because the nature of the
organism allows it to "hide",if you will, from your immune system, so
you would not show elevated WBC counts, and your sedimentation ("sed")
rate would also probably be within normal limts. This might strengthen
the doctors' opinion about a pyschological cause, but you must then
leave and find a physician who believes what the patient says, and
might be Lyme literate, and is at least willing to sign the requisition
form for the test(s), which you will probably have to get from iGeneX
yourself.

I truly hope your symptoms go away, but consider looking into this if
they do not.

Good luck...

TFP

[Montblack[_1_]]

("Margy Natalie" wrote)
> Why would that be? <sweet, innocent, young thing bats lashes >


http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0098067/
Parenthood (1989)
Steve Martin, with Ron Howard directing.

[after the lights go out, the kid is sent to look for a flashlight - in the
dark. She returns to the dinner table with what she 'thinks' is a
flashlight, a rather loud flashlight...]

Taylor: Mommy what was that?
Karen: That was an electrical ear cleaner.
Taylor: It was kinda big.
Grandma: It sure was.


Montblack
[after finding her 15-year-old son's bag full of porno tapes]
"l assume you're watching these because you're curious about sex... you
know. Or filmmaking."

[Dave S]

>
> Yes I do.
>
> But then I'm married to a Human Resources professional who know more about
> it than I. She's got some "great" stories about how she can't ask certain
> questions even when an employee is face down on the office floor having had
> a stroke.
>
> Jay B

She can ask all she wants.. its getting the answers that are tricky.

Dave

[Grumman-581[_3_]]

"Private" > wrote in message
news:TjpOg.555509$IK3.30503@pd7tw1no...
> If a man talks in the woods and there is nobody there to hear him,
> is he still wrong?

Why would he be talking in the woods? It's not like he's going to ask
permission of the tree before he ****es upon it...

[Grumman-581[_3_]]

"Emily" > wrote in message
. ..
> Exactly. I know what causes my anemia (what woman doesn't?)

Yeah, now you want to blame men for your anemia...

When I was a kid, I remember some water supply systems over in East Texas
that had so much iron in their water that it would probably act as a pretty
damn good iron supplement...

[Thomas Borchert]

Grumman-581,

> Nawh, you'll talk to him again... You're a woman and as such are genetically
> predisposed to not be able to pass up an opportunity to tell a man that he
> is wrong (whether or not that really in the case does not matter)...
>

Just when I thought the discussion level on this group couldn't get any lower,
you come along with this. Pathetic...

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Steve Foley[_1_]]

"Matt Whiting" > wrote in message
...
> Emily wrote:
> > Matt Whiting wrote:
> >
> >> Emily wrote:
> >>
> >>> Matt Whiting wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Emily wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Morgans wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> > Then see a doctor who is. I doubt that she will concur with
this
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> armchair diagnosis of depression. Better yet, find an AME who
> >>>>>>>> is also
> >>>>>>>> a psychiatrist, if such exist.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> That is actually very bad advice to those pilots who value their
> >>>>>>> medical
> >>>>>>> certificate. A real pilot knows not to place the
> >>>>>>> responsibilities of
> >>>>>>> normal healthcare in the hands of the same doctor who signs one's
> >>>>>>> medical
> >>>>>>> certificate.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Once again, Mxsm shows that he is clueless. What is he now, 0 out
> >>>>>> of 100?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Sheesh!
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> What *I* think is funny is that he writes as if every word out of
> >>>>> his mouth is gospel.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I mean, seriously, how is a sim player qualified to give anyone
> >>>>> advice on their medical? He gave very dangerous information and I
> >>>>> can only hope that no inexperienced student pilot believes his
advice.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> How is the information he gave dangerous?
> >>>>
> >>>> Matt
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> You think it's a good idea for a student pilot to take his advice?
> >>> It's irresponsible to put information out there like that.
> >>
> >>
> >> I don't see how having two doctors rather than one is dangerous
> >> advice, student pilot or otherwise. That appears to be the essence of
> >> his recommendation above.
> >>
> >> Matt
> >
> >
> > I was replying to a post by Mxsm in where he said I should see an AME
> > about this.
>
> I still don't see how that is dangerous. Not good advice, but hardly
> dangerous.
>
> Matt

Maybe not physically dangerous, but certainly dangerous to a flying career.

[Margy Natalie]

Emily wrote:
> Margy Natalie wrote:
>
>> Mxsmanic wrote:
>>
>>> Emily writes:
>>>
>>>
>>>> First, I'll bet my life they will show anemia, which should make
>>>> him happy that he has a diagnosis ...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Anemia will make it dangerous for you to fly. You don't want that.
>>>
>> Anemia means you have to take iron pills. Not dangerous. BTW anemia
>> in women is NOT considered the major problem it is in men.
>>
>> Margy
>
>
> Exactly. I know what causes my anemia (what woman doesn't?) and it's
> very well controlled if I take a multivitamin. I'm also aware that I
> feel hypoxia earlier tha most, and fly accordingly.

Yeah, guys just don't seem to get it! Ron's Dr. freaked once over his
blood levels, but I think Ron had forgotten to tell him he had donated a
pint of blood the day before :-). Now if you have one of the more
serious anemia type things, it's a different story.

Moral of the story. Don't forget to take your mulivitamins before a Dr.
visit and get plenty of rest. Hope you find a root cause of your fever
that is simple.

Margy

[Emily[_1_]]

Dave S wrote:
<snip>
>>
>> Whatever the factors involved, flying while anemic is not a good idea.
>> You don't want to find out that you have the wrong combination of
>> factors by passing out at 5000 feet.
>
> Are you going to be asymptomatic then magically pass out at 5k feet?
> Hardly. And again, anemia is a matter of degrees. Normal hemoglobin
> levels have a LOW normal value in the ballpark of 13-14 grams/dl. There
> is a lower acceptable low value in women as opposed to men.

Why do you waste your time? <g>
I can say, as a woman with a level that is generally around 11-12g/dl, I
don't magically pass out at 5000 feet. I don't even magically pass out
around 10,000 feet. I can say that I prefer not to fly along at night
without oxygen above around 6000 feet, but like they say, the first
thing to go is vision....which comes back very rapidly at lower
altitudes. Daytime...I've done 11,000 with symptoms, and again,
wouldn't do it alone and without oxygen, but no passing out.

> So.. how about YOU stick to what you know.. flying sims.. leave the real
> flying to the real pilots.. and leave the medical stuff to the folks who
> deal with it for a living?

Good luck with that.

[Emily[_1_]]

Grumman-581 wrote:
> "Emily" > wrote in message
> . ..
>> Exactly. I know what causes my anemia (what woman doesn't?)
>
> Yeah, now you want to blame men for your anemia...

I'm not blaming men, silly.
>
> When I was a kid, I remember some water supply systems over in East Texas
> that had so much iron in their water that it would probably act as a pretty
> damn good iron supplement...

Bet that tasted good. I haven't drank the water here much because I
prefer not to eat mud.

[[email protected]]

Sooo,,,,, Is the blood test back yet ???????????????????? It has been
days.



Emily wrote:
> Grumman-581 wrote:
> > "Emily" > wrote in message
> > . ..
> >> Exactly. I know what causes my anemia (what woman doesn't?)
> >
> > Yeah, now you want to blame men for your anemia...
>
> I'm not blaming men, silly.
> >
> > When I was a kid, I remember some water supply systems over in East Texas
> > that had so much iron in their water that it would probably act as a pretty
> > damn good iron supplement...
>
> Bet that tasted good. I haven't drank the water here much because I
> prefer not to eat mud.

[Jim Macklin]

eat red meat



"Emily" > wrote in message
. ..
| Dave S wrote:
| <snip>
| >>
| >> Whatever the factors involved, flying while anemic is
not a good idea.
| >> You don't want to find out that you have the wrong
combination of
| >> factors by passing out at 5000 feet.
| >
| > Are you going to be asymptomatic then magically pass out
at 5k feet?
| > Hardly. And again, anemia is a matter of degrees. Normal
hemoglobin
| > levels have a LOW normal value in the ballpark of 13-14
grams/dl. There
| > is a lower acceptable low value in women as opposed to
men.
|
| Why do you waste your time? <g>
| I can say, as a woman with a level that is generally
around 11-12g/dl, I
| don't magically pass out at 5000 feet. I don't even
magically pass out
| around 10,000 feet. I can say that I prefer not to fly
along at night
| without oxygen above around 6000 feet, but like they say,
the first
| thing to go is vision....which comes back very rapidly at
lower
| altitudes. Daytime...I've done 11,000 with symptoms, and
again,
| wouldn't do it alone and without oxygen, but no passing
out.
|
| > So.. how about YOU stick to what you know.. flying
sims.. leave the real
| > flying to the real pilots.. and leave the medical stuff
to the folks who
| > deal with it for a living?
|
| Good luck with that.

[Mxsmanic]

Dave S writes:

> And its also possible to have no clinical symptoms at altitude. We can
> "maybe" this all day and all night if you like.

The problem is that you don't know until you die. The FAA errs on the
side of safety, just as any good pilot would.

> Are you going to be asymptomatic then magically pass out at 5k feet?

In some cases, yes.

> So.. how about YOU stick to what you know.. flying sims.. leave the real
> flying to the real pilots.. and leave the medical stuff to the folks who
> deal with it for a living?

As long as pilots who dismiss this sort of problem wear a special hat
so that I can recognize them and avoid any aircraft that they'll be
flying. They can kill themselves if they want, but I don't want to go
with them.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

[Mxsmanic]

Margy Natalie writes:

> Yeah, guys just don't seem to get it!

Menstruation does not produce anemia in a person with a normal and
balanced diet and no problems with iron metabolism.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

[Skylune[_1_]]

What about house and car slammings? There have been quite a few senior
citizen pilots who have been crashing into homes and cars lately. There
have also been many near hits.

[Thomas Borchert]

Mxsmanic,

> Menstruation does not produce anemia in a person with a normal and
> balanced diet and no problems with iron metabolism.
>

You simulate that, too?

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Margy Natalie]

Mxsmanic wrote:
> Margy Natalie writes:
>
>
>>Yeah, guys just don't seem to get it!
>
>
> Menstruation does not produce anemia in a person with a normal and
> balanced diet and no problems with iron metabolism.
>

I assume now you are a medical doctor? I'm sure everyone here eats a
good balanced diet all the time :-)

Margy

[Mortimer Schnerd, RN[_2_]]

Mxsmanic wrote:
> As long as pilots who dismiss this sort of problem wear a special hat
> so that I can recognize them and avoid any aircraft that they'll be
> flying. They can kill themselves if they want, but I don't want to go
> with them.



Wouldn't you first have to get into an airplane with them? Until you do, you
have one hell of a nerve lecturing anybody. You're a wannabe pilot except you
don't really wannabe.

Please come back to us after your testicles descend.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

[Montblack[_1_]]

("Thomas Borchert" wrote)
>> Nawh, you'll talk to him again... You're a woman and as such are
>> genetically predisposed to not be able to pass up an opportunity to tell
>> a man that he is wrong (whether or not that really in the case does not
>> matter)...

> Just when I thought the discussion level on this group couldn't get any
> lower,
> you come along with this. Pathetic...


It was a playful jab ...and was funny.


Montblack

[Margy Natalie]

Jim Macklin wrote:
> eat red meat
>
Or cook in old-fashioned cast iron.

Margy
>
>
> "Emily" > wrote in message
> . ..
> | Dave S wrote:
> | <snip>
> | >>
> | >> Whatever the factors involved, flying while anemic is
> not a good idea.
> | >> You don't want to find out that you have the wrong
> combination of
> | >> factors by passing out at 5000 feet.
> | >
> | > Are you going to be asymptomatic then magically pass out
> at 5k feet?
> | > Hardly. And again, anemia is a matter of degrees. Normal
> hemoglobin
> | > levels have a LOW normal value in the ballpark of 13-14
> grams/dl. There
> | > is a lower acceptable low value in women as opposed to
> men.
> |
> | Why do you waste your time? <g>
> | I can say, as a woman with a level that is generally
> around 11-12g/dl, I
> | don't magically pass out at 5000 feet. I don't even
> magically pass out
> | around 10,000 feet. I can say that I prefer not to fly
> along at night
> | without oxygen above around 6000 feet, but like they say,
> the first
> | thing to go is vision....which comes back very rapidly at
> lower
> | altitudes. Daytime...I've done 11,000 with symptoms, and
> again,
> | wouldn't do it alone and without oxygen, but no passing
> out.
> |
> | > So.. how about YOU stick to what you know.. flying
> sims.. leave the real
> | > flying to the real pilots.. and leave the medical stuff
> to the folks who
> | > deal with it for a living?
> |
> | Good luck with that.
>
>

[Emily[_1_]]

wrote:
> Sooo,,,,, Is the blood test back yet ???????????????????? It has been
> days.

No. My old doctor would call me with results, this guy said I would get
a letter (as if I needed another reason to find a new doctor). And
since I'm avoiding him, I'm not going to call and ask.

[Emily[_1_]]

Jim Macklin wrote:
> eat red meat

Not enough for most women.

[Emily[_1_]]

Thomas Borchert wrote:
> Mxsmanic,
>
>> Menstruation does not produce anemia in a person with a normal and
>> balanced diet and no problems with iron metabolism.
>>
>
> You simulate that, too?
>

You owe me a new monitor.

[Al[_1_]]

"Michelle P" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> Emily wrote:
>> I've been running a 102 degree fever for the past two weeks and have been
>> so tired I can barely get to work. Finally made a doctor's appointment
>> (with a new doctor) today, but wasn't planning on getting in the same day
>> and had taken Tylenol for the fever...so no fever when I showed up.
>>
>> Long story short, he ordered some blood work, but told me he thinks that
>> I am depressed, since I have fatigue with no fever. He said that if the
>> blood work comes back normal, he's writing it up as depression.
>>
>> Obviously he's an idiot, since 1) fatigue has so many other causes and 2)
>> I don't have depression, never have. This is just a bogus diagnosis.
>>
>> My concern is, if he writes this up in my medical records, do I have to
>> report it to the FAA? I'm really terrified of this.
>>
> NO, not unless it is really true. It takes more than blood work to
> determine if you have depression. I takes an evaluation by a psychological
> professional.
>
> Michelle P

Quite Right.

Also there is a difference between "being depressed", "Having Depression",
and a diagnosis of "Clinical depression" which is what the FAA is looking
for.

Al G

[Al[_1_]]

"Montblack" > wrote in message
...
> ("Margy Natalie" wrote)
>> Won't work Monblack, I can quote what I learned in Driver's Ed and that
>> was ... well, more than 30 years ago.
>>
>> Margy (damned, now everyone knows I'm over 30)
>
>
> It was the casual reference to Drivers Ed, which people over 30 seldom do
> anymore.
>
> Like a kid saying they're 6 1/2 years old. Around 40 you stop inserting
> half years into conversation. <g>
>

I'm 54, but I read at a 57 year old level.

Al G

[Dave S]

Mxsmanic wrote:

>
> As long as pilots who dismiss this sort of problem wear a special hat
> so that I can recognize them and avoid any aircraft that they'll be
> flying. They can kill themselves if they want, but I don't want to go
> with them.
>


Fine with me.. Stay outta my plane..

Make sure you wear your pointy hat so everyone knows who YOU are too..

[Mxsmanic]

Skylune writes:

> What about house and car slammings? There have been quite a few senior
> citizen pilots who have been crashing into homes and cars lately. There
> have also been many near hits.

"Quite a few"? How many?

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

[Mxsmanic]

Mortimer Schnerd, RN writes:

> Wouldn't you first have to get into an airplane with them?

If it becomes apparent that they are careless from the way they talk,
I wouldn't risk getting into an airplane with them. The psychology of
risk and recklessness is the same in all environments. Just as you
can often recognize a dangerous driver by his attitude towards
driving, you can often recognize a dangerous pilot by his attitude
towards flying. Indeed, the danger signs have already been discussed
recently in this group, and many of them have been known for a long
time.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

[Mxsmanic]

Margy Natalie writes:

> I assume now you are a medical doctor?

I take an interest in medicine.

> I'm sure everyone here eats a good balanced diet all the time :-)

So based on this statement, if I follow your reasoning, I assume you
are now a nutritionist?

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

[Grumman-581[_3_]]

"Emily" > wrote in message
. ..
> I'm not blaming men, silly.

You're a woman, of course you are... It's in your genes to blame us for
everything... It a good thing we're so shallow, otherwise we might actually
take offence at it...

> Bet that tasted good. I haven't drank the water here much because I
> prefer not to eat mud.

Quite a few years ago, I was up in Dallas for a 6-month contract... I
actually liked the water well enough that I didn't put a filter on the
faucet at my apartment... It might have been because it was during the
cooler part of the year and as such there were less algae blooms in the
lakes from which the fresh water is supplied... Houston water on the other
hand has a significant amount of calcium in it... Tastes a bit chaulky...
Hell, you might even be able to classify it as a calcium supplement... The
taste wasn't so bad that a simple refrigerator ice maker type filter
wouldn't cure it...

[Grumman-581[_3_]]

"Skylune" > wrote in message
lkaboutaviation.com...
> What about house and car slammings? There have been quite a few senior
> citizen pilots who have been crashing into homes and cars lately. There
> have also been many near hits.

What? We haven't hit your house yet? Damn... What was your address again?
Lattitude and longitude will do...

[Grumman-581[_3_]]

"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" <mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com> wrote in message
...
> Please come back to us after your testicles descend.

He lives in France, I don't think that can happen...

[Margy Natalie]

Mxsmanic wrote:
> Margy Natalie writes:
>
>
>>I assume now you are a medical doctor?
>
>
> I take an interest in medicine.
>
>
>>I'm sure everyone here eats a good balanced diet all the time :-)
>
>
> So based on this statement, if I follow your reasoning, I assume you
> are now a nutritionist?
>

Nah, but I've spent lots of time with them. I've also seen pilots at
OSH live for days on nothing but brats and beer. Seems pilots can also
live for days on nothing but orange crackers from the airport vending
machines, but you wouldn't know that as I'm sure that isn't on your sim.
You also seem to have a vision problem as you didn't see the smiley!

Margy

[Emily[_1_]]

Grumman-581 wrote:
> "Emily" > wrote in message
> . ..

>
>> Bet that tasted good. I haven't drank the water here much because I
>> prefer not to eat mud.
>
> Quite a few years ago, I was up in Dallas for a 6-month contract... I
> actually liked the water well enough that I didn't put a filter on the
> faucet at my apartment... It might have been because it was during the
> cooler part of the year and as such there were less algae blooms in the
> lakes from which the fresh water is supplied.

The water here is actually better during the times when the water level
is high. When it drops low, you taste mud. Pretty disgusting for
someone used to getting her water from really deep wells.

[Mxsmanic]

Margy Natalie writes:

> Nah, but I've spent lots of time with them.

Well, I spend time with doctors and pilots, too.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

[Grumman-581[_3_]]

"Emily" > wrote in message
. ..
> The water here is actually better during the times when the water level
> is high. When it drops low, you taste mud. Pretty disgusting for
> someone used to getting her water from really deep wells.

A couple years ago, I was over in New Orleans on a DoD contract and bought a
house north of Slidell, near the airport... It had city water, but also had
an 1100 ft well... They both tasted the same, so I just stayed with the well
water...

[Thomas Borchert]

Emily,

> You owe me a new monitor.
>

How did that happen? ;-)

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Thomas Borchert]

Montblack,

> It was a playful jab
>

Sure? He's done it twice now. And assuming he was serious, it just goes
so well with that patriotic thing mentioned in another thread. But I
digress...

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Dave S]

Mxsmanic wrote:
> Margy Natalie writes:
>
>
>>Nah, but I've spent lots of time with them.
>
>
> Well, I spend time with doctors and pilots, too.
>


I bet they roll their eyes at you a lot.. just like the ones here.

[Skylune[_1_]]

Well, I haven't tabulated the numbers, but there were a spate this year. I
was hoping the FAA database would be updated to include data on properties
damaged/destroyed, but the reports are only describe this in text.

There was the jet slamming at an airshow outside Portland, if i recall,
which followed an earlier house slamming in Calif that killed an occupant
in the house; two weekends ago there was a four car slamming incident in
Montreal, in August there was a hangar slamming in New Hampshire.... I can
recall these from memory. You gotta follow the news flow.

This past weekend there was a near-hit house slamming outside Chicago.
One of the articles said that earlier that year, there was a slamming into
an industrial building near the same airport.

[Mxsmanic]

Dave S writes:

> I bet they roll their eyes at you a lot.. just like the ones here.

No, some of them are smart.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

[Thomas Borchert]

Skylune,

> but there were a spate this year.
>

That a scientific term?

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Thomas Borchert]

Mxsmanic,

> No, some of them are smart.
>

Do you define that in a similar way you define "idle rich"? If so, it's
not a tough hurdle to clear.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Mxsmanic]

Thomas Borchert writes:

> Do you define that in a similar way you define "idle rich"?

No.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

[Bob Noel]

In article >,
Thomas Borchert > wrote:

> > No, some of them are smart.
>
> Do you define that in a similar way you define "idle rich"? If so, it's
> not a tough hurdle to clear.

Yet still beyond his (her?) wildest dreams...

--
Bob Noel
Looking for a sig the
lawyers will hate

[Grumman-581[_3_]]

"Jim Macklin" > wrote in message
news:rTyOg.22723$SZ3.18109@dukeread04...
> eat red meat

So, next you're going to try to tell Emily that you are Native American?
<dirty-old-man-grin>

[Emily[_1_]]

Well, it appears there WAS a good explanation for the fatigue, and it
certainly wasn't depression. Try feeling not tired with a hemoglobin
level of 9.7 g/dl.

Sigh...back to the steak and no tea diet. The good thing is, I'm
guessing he'll drop his "depression" diagnosis now.

[Margy Natalie]

Emily wrote:
> Well, it appears there WAS a good explanation for the fatigue, and it
> certainly wasn't depression. Try feeling not tired with a hemoglobin
> level of 9.7 g/dl.
>
> Sigh...back to the steak and no tea diet. The good thing is, I'm
> guessing he'll drop his "depression" diagnosis now.
Glad you got that cleared up. It's easy to be "depressed" when you are
anemic :-). Try spinach (oh damned, we can't get that anymore!). Iron
supplements taste awful, but...

Margy

[Mortimer Schnerd, RN[_2_]]

Emily wrote:
> Well, it appears there WAS a good explanation for the fatigue, and it
> certainly wasn't depression. Try feeling not tired with a hemoglobin
> level of 9.7 g/dl.


For a cancer patient, that'd be pretty good. For one of our total joint
replacement patients, I'd be hanging blood before we sent them home. Glad you
finally have a reason (sort of). Now the question is, why is your hemoglobin so
low?

Iron and Colace for you, young lady.




--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

[Emily[_1_]]

Mortimer Schnerd, RN wrote:
> Emily wrote:
>> Well, it appears there WAS a good explanation for the fatigue, and it
>
> For a cancer patient, that'd be pretty good. For one of our total joint
> replacement patients, I'd be hanging blood before we sent them home. Glad you
> finally have a reason (sort of). Now the question is, why is your hemoglobin so
> low?

Look in the encyclopedia under "bad eating habits" and you'll see my name.

[Matt Whiting]

Margy Natalie wrote:

> Emily wrote:
>
>> Well, it appears there WAS a good explanation for the fatigue, and it
>> certainly wasn't depression. Try feeling not tired with a hemoglobin
>> level of 9.7 g/dl.
>>
>> Sigh...back to the steak and no tea diet. The good thing is, I'm
>> guessing he'll drop his "depression" diagnosis now.
>
> Glad you got that cleared up. It's easy to be "depressed" when you are
> anemic :-). Try spinach (oh damned, we can't get that anymore!). Iron
> supplements taste awful, but...

they can't taste any worse than liver. :-)

Matt

[Emily[_1_]]

Matt Whiting wrote:
> Margy Natalie wrote:
>
>> Emily wrote:
>>
>>> Well, it appears there WAS a good explanation for the fatigue, and it
>>> certainly wasn't depression. Try feeling not tired with a hemoglobin
>>> level of 9.7 g/dl.
>>>
>>> Sigh...back to the steak and no tea diet. The good thing is, I'm
>>> guessing he'll drop his "depression" diagnosis now.
>>
>> Glad you got that cleared up. It's easy to be "depressed" when you
>> are anemic :-). Try spinach (oh damned, we can't get that anymore!).
>> Iron supplements taste awful, but...
>
> they can't taste any worse than liver. :-)
>
> Matt
Liver is out of the question. Hey, spinach is probably ok if it's cooked!

[Sylvain]

Emily wrote:

> Liver is out of the question.

why not? foie gras (that's liver too) on toast with a
nice Reisling or a Gewurztraminer... hey, you got to do
what you got to do for your health! :-)

--Sylvain

[Grumman-581[_3_]]

"Matt Whiting" > wrote in message
...
> they can't taste any worse than liver. :-)

There's a reason that liver gets smothered in onions... And lots of ketchup,
of course... Sometimes I'll fix some beef liver smothered in onions... I get
a taste for it perhaps once every 15-20 years...

[Montblack[_1_]]

("Emily" wrote)
> Well, it appears there WAS a good explanation for the fatigue, and it
> certainly wasn't depression. Try feeling not tired with a hemoglobin
> level of 9.7 g/dl.
>
> Sigh...back to the steak and no tea diet. The good thing is, I'm guessing
> he'll drop his "depression" diagnosis now.


Roxie: Mr. Flynn!
[pretends to faint]
Billy Flynn: Someone open this door immediately!
Ms. Sunshine: Oh, my God! Roxie! What is it, dear?
Roxie: Oh! Oh! Oh, no no no. Don't, don't worry about me. Oh, I only hope
the fall didn't hurt the baby.
Matron Mama Morton: Baby?
Velma Kelly: "#%^*!"

Chicago (2002)
Oscar for "Best Picture"


Mont(eating for two)black

[Viperdoc[_2_]]

All I pretty much do is total joint replacements, and we don't necessarily
automatically give blood just to treat the number- they have to be
symptomatic as well.

A poor diet would not likely cause such a low hemoglobin, unless perhaps the
patient had pernicious anemia. It suggests a further workup be carried out.
Although I am not an internist, a simple dietary explanation would not be
sufficient, and other potential causes should be investigated.

[Emily[_1_]]

Viperdoc wrote:
> All I pretty much do is total joint replacements, and we don't necessarily
> automatically give blood just to treat the number- they have to be
> symptomatic as well.
>
> A poor diet would not likely cause such a low hemoglobin, unless perhaps the
> patient had pernicious anemia. It suggests a further workup be carried out.
> Although I am not an internist, a simple dietary explanation would not be
> sufficient, and other potential causes should be investigated.
>
>
Well, after my last experience, I'll try diet first, thanks. I don't
need other idiots poking around and making things up.

(Not saying you're making this up, obviously, but I'm a little reluctant
to go back to the doctor)

[Margy Natalie]

Emily wrote:
> Matt Whiting wrote:
>
>> Margy Natalie wrote:
>>
>>> Emily wrote:
>>>
>>>> Well, it appears there WAS a good explanation for the fatigue, and
>>>> it certainly wasn't depression. Try feeling not tired with a
>>>> hemoglobin level of 9.7 g/dl.
>>>>
>>>> Sigh...back to the steak and no tea diet. The good thing is, I'm
>>>> guessing he'll drop his "depression" diagnosis now.
>>>
>>>
>>> Glad you got that cleared up. It's easy to be "depressed" when you
>>> are anemic :-). Try spinach (oh damned, we can't get that
>>> anymore!). Iron supplements taste awful, but...
>>
>>
>> they can't taste any worse than liver. :-)
>>
>> Matt
>
> Liver is out of the question. Hey, spinach is probably ok if it's cooked!
If you can find it! I bought collard greens today.

[Mortimer Schnerd, RN[_2_]]

Viperdoc wrote:
> All I pretty much do is total joint replacements, and we don't necessarily
> automatically give blood just to treat the number- they have to be
> symptomatic as well.

That's my area as well, though on the nursing side of it. We have just one
orthopedic group in town and the carepath specifies checking hematcrit and
hemoglobin for the three days following surgery. Some of the docs write orders
to transfuse any hematocrits below 30 automatically, asymptomatic or not.

When I had *my* hip replaced, I didn't get a transfusion. I have no idea what
my H&H was but I didn't get treated.

There's a group in Charlotte that's trying out giving Epoetin preoperatively
rather than transfusions postoperatively. I haven't found out how that's worked
out though the early reports were very encouraging. I'd love to get out of the
transfusion business... it's a real PITA for the staff.




--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

[Mortimer Schnerd, RN[_2_]]

Emily wrote:
>> A poor diet would not likely cause such a low hemoglobin, unless perhaps the
>> patient had pernicious anemia. It suggests a further workup be carried out.
>> Although I am not an internist, a simple dietary explanation would not be
>> sufficient, and other potential causes should be investigated.
>>
>>
> Well, after my last experience, I'll try diet first, thanks. I don't
> need other idiots poking around and making things up.
>
> (Not saying you're making this up, obviously, but I'm a little reluctant
> to go back to the doctor)


He's right, though. *Something* is causing your hgb to run low and it ought to
be investigated. Go find another doc, pay cash and don't say a word about
flying.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

[Emily[_1_]]

Mortimer Schnerd, RN wrote:
> Emily wrote:
>>> A poor diet would not likely cause such a low hemoglobin, unless perhaps the
>>> patient had pernicious anemia. It suggests a further workup be carried out.
>>> Although I am not an internist, a simple dietary explanation would not be
>>> sufficient, and other potential causes should be investigated.
>>>
>>>
>> Well, after my last experience, I'll try diet first, thanks. I don't
>> need other idiots poking around and making things up.
>>
>> (Not saying you're making this up, obviously, but I'm a little reluctant
>> to go back to the doctor)
>
>
> He's right, though. *Something* is causing your hgb to run low and it ought to
> be investigated. Go find another doc, pay cash and don't say a word about
> flying.

Well, it's *always* been on the low side of normal, and sometimes
slightly below normal (speaking as blood donor who gets deferred as
often as she gets to donate). Dunno. I have to go in for the second
hep A shot in November, I'll make some...lifestyle changes....and if
nothing's changed by then, maybe I'll consider bringing it up when I go
in to get poked.

And until then, it's not like I'm stupid enough to fly solo at 10,000
feet...

[Michael Houghton]

Howdy!

In article >,
Matt Whiting > wrote:
>Margy Natalie wrote:
>
>> Emily wrote:
>>
>>> Well, it appears there WAS a good explanation for the fatigue, and it
>>> certainly wasn't depression. Try feeling not tired with a hemoglobin
>>> level of 9.7 g/dl.
>>>
>>> Sigh...back to the steak and no tea diet. The good thing is, I'm
>>> guessing he'll drop his "depression" diagnosis now.
>>
>> Glad you got that cleared up. It's easy to be "depressed" when you are
>> anemic :-). Try spinach (oh damned, we can't get that anymore!). Iron
>> supplements taste awful, but...
>
>they can't taste any worse than liver. :-)
>
Chopped chicken livers are way yummy...if made correctly (and it isn't
hard)

yours,
Michael


--
Michael and MJ Houghton | Herveus d'Ormonde and Megan O'Donnelly
| White Wolf and the Phoenix narrowwares
Bowie, MD, USA | http://whitewolfandphoenix.com
Proud member of the SCA Internet Whitewash Squad

[Randy Aldous]

Emily,

The range of causes for low hgb is very wide. From nothing much to
serious. If you feel so inclined, there is a fairly good write up here:

http://www.medicinenet.com/hemoglobin/article.htm
http://www.med-help.net/Anemia.html
My apologies if I am bring up information you have already.

Randy