C-182 pattern help

[SilkB]

I am just starting to fly a C-182T and I was wondering if anyone has
any tips for the settings in the pattern/approach.
I have done most of my hours on C172, but when transitioning to C182 I
noticed that it's hard to get this plane down in the pattern. I enter
the pattern at 17"MP (to slow down) and abeam the numbers I lower it
to 15"MP while putting in 1 notch of flaps and trimming for 90-95KTS.
On base I put in another notch of flaps and trim for 85KTS and the
final notch of flaps on final while keeping 70-75KTS.
My problem is that with these settings the plane is not really
descending until the base to final turn where I need to cut down the
power completely. I would have liked to keep about 15"MP in all the
way to the round-out to make the landing nice and soft.
Any tips?

Thanks.

[Jim Macklin]

Check your gross weight vs. speed, I think you're too fast
and need to fly a little slower. You're making flap
extension too big an issue, slow down and put the flaps
down. Pay more attention to the outside world indicator and
aim for the runway.

OWI, windows.



"SilkB" > wrote in message
oups.com...
|I am just starting to fly a C-182T and I was wondering if
anyone has
| any tips for the settings in the pattern/approach.
| I have done most of my hours on C172, but when
transitioning to C182 I
| noticed that it's hard to get this plane down in the
pattern. I enter
| the pattern at 17"MP (to slow down) and abeam the numbers
I lower it
| to 15"MP while putting in 1 notch of flaps and trimming
for 90-95KTS.
| On base I put in another notch of flaps and trim for 85KTS
and the
| final notch of flaps on final while keeping 70-75KTS.
| My problem is that with these settings the plane is not
really
| descending until the base to final turn where I need to
cut down the
| power completely. I would have liked to keep about 15"MP
in all the
| way to the round-out to make the landing nice and soft.
| Any tips?
|
| Thanks.
|

[Michelle P]

SilkB wrote:
> I am just starting to fly a C-182T and I was wondering if anyone has
> any tips for the settings in the pattern/approach.
> I have done most of my hours on C172, but when transitioning to C182 I
> noticed that it's hard to get this plane down in the pattern. I enter
> the pattern at 17"MP (to slow down) and abeam the numbers I lower it
> to 15"MP while putting in 1 notch of flaps and trimming for 90-95KTS.
> On base I put in another notch of flaps and trim for 85KTS and the
> final notch of flaps on final while keeping 70-75KTS.
> My problem is that with these settings the plane is not really
> descending until the base to final turn where I need to cut down the
> power completely. I would have liked to keep about 15"MP in all the
> way to the round-out to make the landing nice and soft.
> Any tips?
>
> Thanks.
>
Flaps?
Michelle P

[Newps]

Reduce power to 15" farther out. No reason you can't be at 70 kts on
midfield downwind with no flaps. At midfield flaps 20 and reduce power
some more, 12-13". On final either leave the flaps where they are or
use full flaps. Power at about 10" or whatever it takes to maintain
55-60 kts.




SilkB wrote:
> I am just starting to fly a C-182T and I was wondering if anyone has
> any tips for the settings in the pattern/approach.
> I have done most of my hours on C172, but when transitioning to C182 I
> noticed that it's hard to get this plane down in the pattern. I enter
> the pattern at 17"MP (to slow down) and abeam the numbers I lower it
> to 15"MP while putting in 1 notch of flaps and trimming for 90-95KTS.
> On base I put in another notch of flaps and trim for 85KTS and the
> final notch of flaps on final while keeping 70-75KTS.
> My problem is that with these settings the plane is not really
> descending until the base to final turn where I need to cut down the
> power completely. I would have liked to keep about 15"MP in all the
> way to the round-out to make the landing nice and soft.
> Any tips?
>
> Thanks.
>

[Ben Jackson]

On 2006-09-14, SilkB > wrote:
> the pattern at 17"MP (to slow down) and abeam the numbers I lower it
> to 15"MP while putting in 1 notch of flaps and trimming for 90-95KTS.

That sounds a little high. I fly a Comanche which also has an IO-540,
and I use 15" in the pattern and 12" abeam the numbers. I touch down
with the power off. The last bit of throttle is pretty dramatic. From
12" down to min goes from about 500fpm to 1000fpm+. At 15" and even
with full flaps I might even be able to maintain level flight.

--
Ben Jackson AD7GD
>
http://www.ben.com/

[kontiki]

I fly 182's all the time in forestry patrol. For one thing, you don't need
30 degrees of flaps unless you really want to do a short field landing.
I also think 15" of MP is too much. Try 12" or so and see what happens.

[kontiki]

Ben Jackson wrote:
> That sounds a little high. I fly a Comanche which also has an IO-540,
> and I use 15" in the pattern and 12" abeam the numbers. I touch down
> with the power off. The last bit of throttle is pretty dramatic. From
> 12" down to min goes from about 500fpm to 1000fpm+. At 15" and even
> with full flaps I might even be able to maintain level flight.
>

I noticed a big change in the difference in the last inch or so of MP
when I went from a 2 blade to a 3 blade prop in my PA24-250. What prop
do you have?

[Ben Jackson]

On 2006-09-14, kontiki > wrote:
> Ben Jackson wrote:
> > That sounds a little high. I fly a Comanche which also has an IO-540,
>> and I use 15" in the pattern and 12" abeam the numbers. I touch down
>> with the power off. The last bit of throttle is pretty dramatic.
>
> I noticed a big change in the difference in the last inch or so of MP
> when I went from a 2 blade to a 3 blade prop in my PA24-250. What prop
> do you have?

I have the 2 blade "compact" prop. I'm not sure what "compact" means,
other than it's not subject to the AD that has caused many Comanche
owners to go to 3 blade props!

--
Ben Jackson AD7GD
>
http://www.ben.com/

[SilkB]

Thanks for all your comments.
I will try to come into the pattern with less power and use less power
throughout the pattern. From your comments, I looks to me that I was
coming in with too much speed into the pattern and I carried the energy
around to the final.

Thanks for the help.

SilkB wrote:
> I am just starting to fly a C-182T and I was wondering if anyone has
> any tips for the settings in the pattern/approach.
> I have done most of my hours on C172, but when transitioning to C182 I
> noticed that it's hard to get this plane down in the pattern. I enter
> the pattern at 17"MP (to slow down) and abeam the numbers I lower it
> to 15"MP while putting in 1 notch of flaps and trimming for 90-95KTS.
> On base I put in another notch of flaps and trim for 85KTS and the
> final notch of flaps on final while keeping 70-75KTS.
> My problem is that with these settings the plane is not really
> descending until the base to final turn where I need to cut down the
> power completely. I would have liked to keep about 15"MP in all the
> way to the round-out to make the landing nice and soft.
> Any tips?
>
> Thanks.

[Matt Whiting]

SilkB wrote:

> I am just starting to fly a C-182T and I was wondering if anyone has
> any tips for the settings in the pattern/approach.
> I have done most of my hours on C172, but when transitioning to C182 I
> noticed that it's hard to get this plane down in the pattern. I enter
> the pattern at 17"MP (to slow down) and abeam the numbers I lower it
> to 15"MP while putting in 1 notch of flaps and trimming for 90-95KTS.
> On base I put in another notch of flaps and trim for 85KTS and the
> final notch of flaps on final while keeping 70-75KTS.
> My problem is that with these settings the plane is not really
> descending until the base to final turn where I need to cut down the
> power completely. I would have liked to keep about 15"MP in all the
> way to the round-out to make the landing nice and soft.
> Any tips?

Start slowing down well before you enter the pattern. You should be
under 100 knots at the time of patter entry, preferably 80-90. I always
tried to be at 80 MPH (mine was a 1967 and was referenced to MPH, not
knots) when abeam the numbers. I'd then pull on carb heat, pull the
power to idle, crank in two handfuls of nose-up trim and apply flaps 10.
This would keep me close to 80 MPH with a decent descent rate. Turn
base once the above is done and select flaps 20 keeping the speed at 80
MPH. Turn final and select flaps 40 immediately if a little high or
delay until short final if a little low. Cross the threshold at 70 MPH
or a little slower and land. Should have no need to carry power or add
power to land.


Matt

[RST Engineering]

To hell with manifold pressure. Try coming back on the throttle until you
have 1900 RPM and 80 knots in the downwind pattern. When you are abeam your
touchdown point, apply 10° of flap and reduce to 1800 RPM and hold 80 knots.
Turning base, crank in 20° of flap, reduce to 1700 RPM and 75 knots. On
final, reduce to 1600 RPM, 30° of flap and 75 knots. Further reduce RPM as
necessary to hit your touchdown point.

Jim





"SilkB" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>I am just starting to fly a C-182T and I was wondering if anyone has
> any tips for the settings in the pattern/approach.
> I have done most of my hours on C172, but when transitioning to C182 I
> noticed that it's hard to get this plane down in the pattern. I enter
> the pattern at 17"MP (to slow down) and abeam the numbers I lower it
> to 15"MP while putting in 1 notch of flaps and trimming for 90-95KTS.
> On base I put in another notch of flaps and trim for 85KTS and the
> final notch of flaps on final while keeping 70-75KTS.
> My problem is that with these settings the plane is not really
> descending until the base to final turn where I need to cut down the
> power completely. I would have liked to keep about 15"MP in all the
> way to the round-out to make the landing nice and soft.
> Any tips?
>
> Thanks.
>

[Marc CYBW]

This was posted by someone else in the Cessna 182 discussion group a few
weeks ago:



I always get a lot of grief for posting this. . . . but we should all
understand that this is a guide that needs to be adjusted for current
conditions. That said. . . here it is. . . .


I have used this method on 150's, 152's, 172's and now my 182. I do it the
same for all of them and it works. (The only difference is the prop on the
182, and once that is set to fine pitch all else is the same.)

1) With the prop set to fine pitch, throttle set to 2000 rpm (forget about
looking at the manifold gauge, it doesn't tell you anything at this point).
Trim for LEVEL flight on downwind
2) Abeam the numbers, reduce power to 1700 RPM (1600 RPM for fixed pitch
prop equipped aircraft) and add 10 degrees of flaps at the same time. (Hold
the nose down until it stabilizes.) The flaps and reduction in power will
counteract each other and it should stabilize at 80 MPH in a decent.
3) While turning base, add flaps to 20 degrees. The plane will stabilize at
75 MPH. Adding the flaps during the turn will add lift to counteract the
decent caused by the turn, thus maintaining the same decent rate.
4) While turning final, add flaps to 40 degrees (unless a real strong wind
20-30 knots). Plane will stabilize at 70 MPH. Use pitch to control airspeed,
throttle to control target touch down spot.
5) When you know you will make the numbers, pull throttle back to idle and
flair the aircraft. Roughly 60-65 MPH over the fence.

6) If you aren't getting these numbers, you didn't trim the plane for level
flight on downwind. You should never have to re-trim during any phase of the
pattern after trimming for level flight on downwind. This technique will
work on all high-wing non retract Cessnas. Go up and try re-trimming for
level flight and 2000 RPM again. Give it enough time to settle in to
stabilized flight. My flight instructor taught me this and routinely landed
the 172 I was training in without touching the yoke until the flair. He only
used the yoke for aileron input. (sometimes he only used rudders just to
show me it can be done.)

The design of the Cessna high wing causes it to seek stabilized flight. If
you set it up properly, it will seek/return to that stabilized speed. Set it
up to the wrong RPM or not level flight, and it will seek/return to the
wrong speed or the wrong decent angle. I would never use full nose up trim
on final. A lot of reasons have been stated about go-rounds, but what about
an engine out on final. While you are panicking trying to restart and you
are distracted else where, with nose up trim, the likeliness of raising the
nose into a stalled condition is very good. Also it is much easier to
over-control the flair, or a recovery from a bounce, which will then become
a porpoise if you have too much nose up trim. Once the cycle starts, the
un-stabilized trim will cause it to oscillate with a more pronounced bounce
on each cycle until something breaks.

Sorry this is so long winded, but learning to trim an airplane is an art
that takes time to learn. We can do many things to correct problems that
wouldn't exist if the plane were trimmed properly in the first place. ( I
fly by myself with full long range fuel and nothing in the baggage
compartment, and never have a problem flairing the plane.)


"SilkB" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>I am just starting to fly a C-182T and I was wondering if anyone has
> any tips for the settings in the pattern/approach.
> I have done most of my hours on C172, but when transitioning to C182 I
> noticed that it's hard to get this plane down in the pattern. I enter
> the pattern at 17"MP (to slow down) and abeam the numbers I lower it
> to 15"MP while putting in 1 notch of flaps and trimming for 90-95KTS.
> On base I put in another notch of flaps and trim for 85KTS and the
> final notch of flaps on final while keeping 70-75KTS.
> My problem is that with these settings the plane is not really
> descending until the base to final turn where I need to cut down the
> power completely. I would have liked to keep about 15"MP in all the
> way to the round-out to make the landing nice and soft.
> Any tips?
>
> Thanks.
>

[kontiki]

Ben Jackson wrote:
> I have the 2 blade "compact" prop. I'm not sure what "compact" means,
> other than it's not subject to the AD that has caused many Comanche
> owners to go to 3 blade props!
>

Okay, that's the compact hub. To go that route with a Comanche 250 you
need an engine counterweight change that I didn't want to mess with. The
3 blade McCauley has worked out for me, I get solid 160kt cruise and better
climb. I've heard that going from 2-3 blade can cost a knot or 2 in cruise
but I didn't see that... I think the new APP cowling helped.

[Orval Fairbairn]

In article >,
"RST Engineering" > wrote:

> To hell with manifold pressure. Try coming back on the throttle until you
> have 1900 RPM and 80 knots in the downwind pattern. When you are abeam your
> touchdown point, apply 10° of flap and reduce to 1800 RPM and hold 80 knots.
> Turning base, crank in 20° of flap, reduce to 1700 RPM and 75 knots. On
> final, reduce to 1600 RPM, 30° of flap and 75 knots. Further reduce RPM as
> necessary to hit your touchdown point.
>
> Jim

On e helpful addition (for noise control): This works on all
controllable-pitch airplanes, too.

Do NOT push the prop control to fine pitch until you are throttled back
and slowed down to approach speed! This way, the governor will set the
prop pitch at the stops and will probably not exceed 2000 RPM.

Fly the approach speed, flaps as necessary, throttle to control glide
angle. If the runway numbers appear to be going away, add throttle; if
they appear to approach you, reduce throttle and/or add flap.

[Matt Barrow]

"Newps" > wrote in message
...
> Reduce power to 15" farther out. No reason you can't be at 70 kts on
> midfield downwind with no flaps. At midfield flaps 20 and reduce power
> some more, 12-13". On final either leave the flaps where they are or use
> full flaps. Power at about 10" or whatever it takes to maintain 55-60
> kts.

Does Cessna have any course equivalent to the Beechcraft Pilot Proficieny
Program (BPPP)? (Worth the $$ at twice the price)


> SilkB wrote:
>> I am just starting to fly a C-182T and I was wondering if anyone has
>> any tips for the settings in the pattern/approach.
>> I have done most of my hours on C172, but when transitioning to C182 I
>> noticed that it's hard to get this plane down in the pattern. I enter
>> the pattern at 17"MP (to slow down) and abeam the numbers I lower it
>> to 15"MP while putting in 1 notch of flaps and trimming for 90-95KTS.
>> On base I put in another notch of flaps and trim for 85KTS and the
>> final notch of flaps on final while keeping 70-75KTS.
>> My problem is that with these settings the plane is not really
>> descending until the base to final turn where I need to cut down the
>> power completely. I would have liked to keep about 15"MP in all the
>> way to the round-out to make the landing nice and soft.
>> Any tips?
>>
>> Thanks.
>>

[Matt Whiting]

RST Engineering wrote:

> To hell with manifold pressure. Try coming back on the throttle until you
> have 1900 RPM and 80 knots in the downwind pattern. When you are abeam your
> touchdown point, apply 10° of flap and reduce to 1800 RPM and hold 80 knots.
> Turning base, crank in 20° of flap, reduce to 1700 RPM and 75 knots. On
> final, reduce to 1600 RPM, 30° of flap and 75 knots. Further reduce RPM as
> necessary to hit your touchdown point.

Too complicated. Just reduce the throttle to idle abeam the touchdown
point and glide in at 80 MPH. :-)

Matt

[Newps]

Matt Barrow wrote:

> "Newps" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Reduce power to 15" farther out. No reason you can't be at 70 kts on
>>midfield downwind with no flaps. At midfield flaps 20 and reduce power
>>some more, 12-13". On final either leave the flaps where they are or use
>>full flaps. Power at about 10" or whatever it takes to maintain 55-60
>>kts.
>
>
> Does Cessna have any course equivalent to the Beechcraft Pilot Proficieny
> Program (BPPP)? (Worth the $$ at twice the price)

No.